Is Klei ok with griefing at their own servers?

[Seero]

25 minutes ago, Tome130 said:

I mean why is Klei then fixing item duplication glitch?
Destroying items is OK, duping them is not?

[Mike23Ua]

34 minutes ago, Seero said:

Uses legit gameplay features to destroy items in an “Uncompromising” Wilderness Survival game.

Uses unintended glitch to duplicate items in that same uncompromising game.

I mean don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to defend bad behavior.. but if the games description warns you in advance what your getting yourself into- you can’t really fault Klei for NOT wanting to waste time fixing it either.

[FuriousChimera]

Peolple talk like they only "use" bugs, exploited when the game is being unfaired to them .

This was one of the Klei server when some gang abuse the hell out of this bug, my friend said this server had around 200~300 hounditus. It was bordeline griefing at the point due to just how many roll back they did every session of game.

[Bird Up]

doesn't the dupe cost you like 8-16 minutes just to do it once. kinda cringe yo.

[Tome130]

8 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

doesn't the dupe cost you like 8-16 minutes just to do it once. kinda cringe yo.

dupe costs you 2 min inagame time, and is done when server saves the state so almost no gameplay is lost
and its always x2
so 256 houndious = 8 rollback (2pow8) so thats about 15 minutes to do

[FuriousChimera]

Other than how mechanically broken it was (and people fight over nightvison for 6 pages) in dedicated servers, it costs one day - 8 mins wait for the next save to duplicated, while max inventory only 29. It might not be a huge problem for the one who abuse it, but for randoms joining, losing a whole game day for a stack of bacon and eggs dup is not fun (which prompt alot of people have complained). So far players mostly took advantaged of it to flex to newbies in puplic servers.

[JoSmoCoolStuf]

What!? Oh no, how terrible! Please, tell me exactly how this duplication rollback glitch is done so that I can avoid it.

Stupid jokes aside, I have observed one paradoxical instance where a griefed Klei spawn area actually contributed to its longevity! 

I got killed immediately at spawn. But the longest living nomad allowed me some time to find a touch stone. He/she/it did not even attempt to vote-kick me despite me draining their sanity. I don't know who created the spawn trap. The server was at least a few hundred days old. At the same time, there was another Klei server with a few hundred days.

To my surprise, the griefed spawn area server survived longer than the group of honest hardworking players! Perhaps all the griefers who lacked patience got killed and gave up immediately. Then maybe some future players found it hilarious, and decided to sacrifice sleep to keep it alive as long as possible. But there are some patient & dedicated griefers out there who won't be deterred by this. Also, some griefers themselves may have a vendetta for any particular player. It's just a roll of the dice.

Lastly, it is interesting that this is the first post of an account made in 2017 and it potentially has game changing impacts. Well done. But why is the topic title phrased in a way that seems to attempt to kinda maybe justify a griefer's behavior? 3 answers out of 4 favors the griefers. Why? 

SUS

P/S: I am also sus for suggesting that griefers can accidentally do a good thing by murdering other griefers. 

[wigfrids hat]

the voting options do not take into account how incredibly time-consuming moderating is, how expensive it can be to do ethically and how many people would be needed to do it effectively. countering griefers would be a losing game for klei

[Tome130]

8 hours ago, FuriousChimera said:

Other than how mechanically broken it was (and people fight over nightvison for 6 pages) in dedicated servers, it costs one day - 8 mins wait for the next save to duplicated, while max inventory only 29. It might not be a huge problem for the one who abuse it, but for randoms joining, losing a whole game day for a stack of bacon and eggs dup is not fun (which prompt alot of people have complained). So far players mostly took advantaged of it to flex to newbies in puplic servers.

Huh? you are using some weird kind of dupig gitch the one I do rollbacks after save loosing you 10 seconds of gameplay.
Max inventory size? you can bundle stuff.
For me its annoying when people do 10+ rollbacks just for the loot stash, but that is a "feature" i guess.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Tome130 said:

Huh? you are using some weird kind of dupig gitch the one I do rollbacks after save loosing you 10 seconds of gameplay.
Max inventory size? you can bundle stuff.
For me its annoying when people do 10+ rollbacks just for the loot stash, but that is a "feature" i guess.

Both things should be fixed and more taking in count how disturbing is rollback for people that dont want to do it for cheating instead of reparing what a bug or a troll did (the real use for rollbacks)

And i cant understand why people use rollback for klaus... it lose all the gambling fun

[Viktor234]

9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

And i cant understand why people use rollback for klaus... it lose all the gambling fun

Because clients don't have the ability to use the console to spawn a Krampus Sack. Also not everyone here enjoys the "gambling fun", they can gamble only once every 70 days and only if others didn't open the Loot Stash before they had the chance to do so, which makes players use rollback more often to customize their loot.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Because clients don't have the ability to use the console to spawn a Krampus Sack. Also not everyone here enjoys the "gambling fun", they can gamble only once every 70 days and only if others didn't open the Loot Stash before they had the chance to do so, which makes players use rollback more often to customize their loot.

So? The mechanic is what it is. You dont need a krampus sack or any other klaus loot to play. It just makes the game easier in some tals (and the krampus sack in all)

Also using the console is cheating but then hurry to say how unbalanced is the game with salty comments lel

[Well-met]

5 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Because clients don't have the ability to use the console to spawn a Krampus Sack. Also not everyone here enjoys the "gambling fun", they can gamble only once every 70 days and only if others didn't open the Loot Stash before they had the chance to do so, which makes players use rollback more often to customize their loot.

if you have the power to do a rollback then you might aswell install a 100% sack drop mod?

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

more often to customize their loot

Good word for cheating hahahaha

 

Edit: you were right when you said that "klei doesnt know how to balance their game" because they dont fix this kind of exploits, sorry, this 'customizable settings'

[Viktor234]

2 minutes ago, Well-met said:

if you have the power to do a rollback then you might aswell install a 100% sack drop mod?

Please link me a client mod which makes the Loot Stash drop a Krampus Sack with a 100% chance, thanks.

[Well-met]

10 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Please link me a client mod which makes the Loot Stash drop a Krampus Sack with a 100% chance, thanks.

rollbacks and mods imply the same level of server ownership, which is part of your original point. You can't have one without the other.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1952898752 or c_spawn "krampus_sack"

 

[Viktor234]

3 minutes ago, Well-met said:

rollbacks and mods imply the same level of server ownership, which is part of your original point. You can't have one without the other.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1952898752 or c_spawn "krampus_sack"

I did ask for a Client Mod, not a Server Mod. Your linked mod is a Server Mod which isn't useable by clients at all.

[Well-met]

16 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

I did ask for a Client Mod, not a Server Mod. Your linked mod is a Server Mod which isn't useable by clients at all.

so how do you rollback your loot if you're just a client and the server isn't yours?

[Viktor234]

6 minutes ago, Well-met said:

so how do you rollback your loot if you're just a client and the server isn't yours?

1. Make sure that you are the player who has the most days or survived for >= 20 days
2. Open your Scoreboard
3. Press on the 'Server Actions...' Button on the top left of your Scoreboard
4. Press on 'Rollback'
5. Confirm with 'Do it!'
6. Press on 'Yes'
7. If the vote is successful, wait for 5 seconds

=> Server did rollback

Now, since I did answer your question, please show me your client sided mod which makes the Loot Stash drop a Krampus Sack with a 100% chance. Come on, show me that mod already or just admit that you're dumb.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Viktor234 said:

Come on, show me that mod already or just admit that you're dumb.

you can admit that this isnt a game feature and you just wanna cheat the game to make it easier 

[Well-met]

14 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

1. Make sure that you are the player who has the most days or survived for >= 20 days
2. Open your Scoreboard
3. Press on the 'Server Actions...' Button on the top left of your Scoreboard
4. Press on 'Rollback'
5. Confirm with 'Do it!'
6. Press on 'Yes'
7. If the vote is successful, wait for 5 seconds

=> Server did rollback

Now, since I did answer your question, please show me your client sided mod which makes the Loot Stash drop a Krampus Sack with a 100% chance. Come on, show me that mod already or just admit that you're dumb.

votes aren't always going to work if you're actually playing with a set amount of people, which would be the main reason to be playing on a server that isn't yours

good on you if you can consistently get away with this, though.

[lemonti]

[MondayNight]

3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

.. i cant understand why people use rollback for klaus... it lose all the gambling fun

 

3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

...using the console is cheating...

 

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

if you have the power to do a rollback then you might aswell install a 100% sack drop mod?

 

Look at DST personal server population (in general ~ 23-25% from total are modded servers) and what mods are prevalent in those rooms: by far most used are ones that make the game easier in various degrees - that's the reality (check most popular Steam Workshop mods). Further more, and you can call this for what it is - anecdotal evidence, lately I for one have started to go on such random personal servers for my own fun of observing what people do and how. Vast majority are newbies, but that's beside the point - in each such servers, after some time passes, I ask owner if he/she knows console commands (how to use, types a.s.o.). To no-one's surprise, bulk doesn't. At that point I open the Pandora Box for them. Can you guess what they do afterwards, at least the ones knowing a bit about rare loot? Yes, they start spawning in such items, some for all players in respective server. Thus, given the opportunity, most people opt for instant gratification and not gambling or-the-like. That is secondary, when instant gratification isn't available. Trivia. Without any Hasty Generalization, for fun like always.

 

Anyway, end of off-topic. Griefing has nothing to do with cheating/console commands/various mods. Most common grief methods are via fire and smashing. Then intentional/malicious spawning of detrimental elements (Tentacles, Spiders, Merms, Ewecus, Vargs, giants etc) in vital, commonly used areas like Florid Postern, Touchstones or bases. And is a sub-set of Trolling.

[Mysterious box]

From my perspective aside from the banning placing harmful creatures near spawn I doubt there's really much kiel can do about griefing because if they ended up setting up a auto ban system they'd still need to hire a staff to make sure it runs properly which alot don't from what I've seen in other games. They also can't allow players to do long term bans on each other because what each player considers griefing can vary for example some players consider the following ban worthy and griefing.

-Rain trap trigger

-Seasonal trap trigger

-Eatting a mandrake 

-Picking flowers

There's more but you get my point and while kiel could go with option three which is to moderate all official servers I imagine it'd be very expensive since they'd have to do alot of fact checking on multiple servers running at the same time while handling appeals, complaints, and accidental bans. That aside what they could if they really wanted is if a set number of deaths happen at spawn make the cave portal spawn people in there with a lantern.(Not very reasonable I know but I want to see a official use for it.)

[MondayNight]

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

From my perspective aside from the banning placing harmful creatures near spawn I doubt there's really much kiel can do about griefing because if they ended up setting up a auto ban system they'd still need to hire a staff to make sure it runs properly which alot don't from what I've seen in other games. They also can't allow players to do long term bans on each other because what each player considers griefing can vary for example some players consider the following ban worthy and griefing.

-Rain trap trigger

-Seasonal trap trigger

-Eatting a mandrake 

-Picking flowers

There's more but you get my point and while kiel could go with option three which is to moderate all official servers I imagine it'd be very expensive since they'd have to do alot of fact checking on multiple servers running at the same time while handling appeals, complaints, and accidental bans. That aside what they could if they really wanted is if a set number of deaths happen at spawn make the cave portal spawn people in there with a lantern.(Not very reasonable I know but I want to see a official use for it.)

Point is KLei didn't really do anything to address griefing of any kind after years of complains by now, even on these forums, time-and-again from various people for various major happenings - some related to recurrent, very-persisting griefers like Clouds, using bots and such, which in its own is quite ridiculous but it is what it is. Writing "KLei doesn't care about DST in-game griefing" by now is an understatement.

From its inception, DST should've had a protected area around Florid Postern and Touchstones from harmful player intervention (at least against spawning of Tentacles and Fossils placements). Plus a longer time (let's say 20-30 minutes) for kicked players from being able to rejoin servers. At least these. Till the 2017 incident with the trio of server-resetting-en-mass trolls, KLei didn't had even that 20-days-on-server required time before a player could start a vote - was instant. Not to mention, via console commands, such action was still possible till last year - seriously: why are console commands even permitted to non-admin players?!?