The 4 most overpowered characters and how to balance them?

[Mike23Ua]

I honestly can’t think of anything they can give or change on Wortox that will make him less OP, I mean.. to his credit he Is a world hopping IMP that can come and go out of the constant as he pleases..

But if Klei were to give him say Kurt Wagner (Aka Nightcrawler from the X-Men) powers to grab hold of and teleport team mates over short distances- Not only would this make him EVEN MORE OP.. but then it would break the games lore because he could’ve just grabbed these guys and tele-poofed them OUT of the constant..

Wait wasn’t Wagstaff 100% human and had his own teleporting Umbrella & had several different methods of exploring the constant?? Why hasn’t He showed up to save anyone yet?

I guess they could maybe change Wortox so that he can’t wear any armor (I mean I literally survive just fine with him without Armors for a good majority of the game..) his Self/group healing is just that insanely good.. But his playstyle doesn’t really have any significant downside.

He isn’t being “Judged” by the Elder Krampii/ Krampus by not doing enough naughty actions and if he isn’t fulfilling to his standards then his souls/abilities become less effective- He doesn’t have these (without the loot stash) spawn in and kick him in the face in each direction.. he kinda just has all that power and no unique downside for it.

But Wortox being a DLC Character and Not one of the 7 original cast that have yet to be reworked... it is uncertain as to if they will rework Wortox or not: Meanwhile

Wolfgang, WX78 & Wickerbottom are DEFIANTLY going to get their Reworks.

Im not sure if characters like Walter, Wormwood, Wortox or Wurt will get a Character refresh as they are considered DLC more than Refresh.

It is important to note that a refresh (a REAL Refresh) includes the following things: An animated short, New/re-imagined abilities, New skins for the character being Reworked as well as all previously unweaveable skins becoming permanently Weavable, and a unique character Belongings pack.

(At least all others so far have)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Shosuko said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

So that part where I said she wouldn't live long without a potion inspired you to share a video where she indeed does not live long without a potion....  ?

also 

 

Exactly what I said... and

yeah as I said....  idkw you're responding to me here.

You talked like she couldnt do anything useful in boss fights lol

45 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I honestly can’t think of anything they can give or change on Wortox that will make him less OP, I mean.. to his credit he Is a world hopping IMP that can come and go out of the constant as he pleases..

Isnt that hard. Having 200hp when the character can heal and evade has little sense. She wheeler, she has low hp because she can dodge. High risk high reward

Also, i think the healing is a little strong, you kill 3 spiders and suddenly you can heal 60hp (little less if you are healing more players)

Wortox has the same problem as wendy, very cool desing but high numbers 

[Yuuko]

9 hours ago, Cheggf said:

She was up for 20s and down for 7s lmao. She didn't even die, either. Second clip shows her surviving the entire fight with a single easy cheap potion.

Yeah, because - exactly as I said - she will die otherwise.  Unsummoning her before she takes lethal damage or giving her a pot to last her through the fight coincides with my comments exactly.  If you unsummon her, same as if she died, you are left with 75% damage modifier.  20s up with 150% damage and 7s down with 75% damage is much less impressive compared to Wolfgang...  AGAIN NOT SAYING WENDY ISN'T OP but lets not pretend she is OP boss destroyer lol  There is a reason she isn't taking over speed runs and full game clears lolol

6 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

You talked like she couldnt do anything useful in boss fights lol

Isnt that hard. Having 200hp when the character can heal and evade has little sense. She wheeler, she has low hp because she can dodge. High risk high reward

Also, i think the healing is a little strong, you kill 3 spiders and suddenly you can heal 60hp (little less if you are healing more players)

Wortox has the same problem as wendy, very cool desing but high numbers 

I never said she didn't do anything useful.  I said she doesn't tank bosses well, and even for a weak boss like deerclops she needs a health potion to survive the fight.  Other bosses will kill here even with heal pot active.  Most of them - even single target bosses - require you tank the boss as they'll still hit her if you dodge.

17 hours ago, Shosuko said:

...Abigail is not a great tank against bosses either.  If you do the firepit facetank deerclops you need to give Abi a big heal pot or she will not survive long. 

...Not to say Wendy / Abi isn't OP, they do a LOT...

idk if you're just assuming I'm on some OmG wEnDy BaLaNcEd hype train or if my posts are confusing you because they aren't, but you feel you still gotta argue Wendy is the most OP thing no matter what anyone else says.

[Mike23Ua]

Lol I love how everyone’s still talking bout Wendy when Op’s original post don’t say nothin bout no Wendy 

But for real.. I want to discuss the 4 well uhh maybe just 3** (still not sure Wortox counts) that have not been reworked yet.

Wolfgang in particular: I just hate his current Playstyle, ever since I unlocked Wurt and could hire Merms to “Fist Punch” Boulders for Me I’ve wanted that promptly added to Wolfgang as something he can do in Mighty Mode.. 

And in Fact that’s what a Wolfgang Rework SHOULD focus on, ignore damage & hunger multipliers & just make the character less bland/more fun.

What could they give Wolfgang that he can do in Mighty Form that he could not do in Normal form? These are things we should ask ourselves..

I can throw around a bunch of crazy ideas for what I feel like a Strongman should be able to do.. but ultimately it’s up to Klei how far they want to go with it.

The following ideas can only be performed While Mighty:

Wolfgang can now pick up and carry large objects with no movement speed penalty.

Wolfgang can go into a “Throwing Kneel Animation” and then another player walks up to him and press the Interact button to agree to be thrown to a location Wolfgang has him aimed in- And to be certain that Wolfgang can’t Exploit this and chunk team mates into the ocean or something he will have a on screen indicator circle like Wortox’s soul hops on Xbox One: And once he locks it into place and goes into “Throw Team Mate pose” the team mate can see EXACTLY where they will be thrown too.

Useful for crossing streams, gaps in caves, being thrown closer to or away from enemies, or to get a boat back that just “barely” floated out of reach.

Wolfgang now also shares the ability to Merm-Punch boulders with his bare hands saving himself tool durability.

Lastly: similar to throwing Team, Wolfgang can pick up & throw Antlions cave collapse boulders (to flatten spider enemies with)

To Summarize: Raw Power is frick’n boring.... make that Power FUN and give him a good downside to make up for all that power.. I’m not sure exactly what kind of downside but just a little something that plays into his “Myriad of Phobias” a little bit.

I assure you all absolutely NO ONE plays Wendy just because she’s OP.... she also has to be interesting and fun to play as.

Just for a minute let’s forget raw stats and damage numbers and all that boring crap that puts me to sleep just talking about and let’s focus on what should be most important: Making a character FUN To Play as.

And for me.. Wolfgang currently doesn’t fulfill that desire, here’s to hoping they change that with his rework.

Cheers! 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

38 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I never said she didn't do anything useful.  I said she doesn't tank bosses well, and even for a weak boss like deerclops she needs a health potion to survive the fight.  Other bosses will kill here even with heal pot active.  Most of them - even single target bosses - require you tank the boss as they'll still hit her if you dodge

i just show you the video so you can see that, at night, she doesnt need a elixir to make a pretty decent damage before being low

 

39 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

idk if you're just assuming I'm on some OmG wEnDy BaLaNcEd hype train or if my posts are confusing you because they aren't, but you feel you still gotta argue Wendy is the most OP thing no matter what anyone else says

i never said she is the most op thing. I just say that the way abi works makes survival an automatic thing that doesnt really need player interaction which is boring

 

41 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I said she doesn't tank bosses well, and even for a weak boss like deerclops she needs a health potion to survive the fight.

and you are right, i didnt say the opposite, reread my answere to you because i mention the healing elixir a couple of times, and i dont see her op at boss fights, is just another thing to add to his powerful kid

 

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Lol I love how everyone’s still talking bout Wendy when Op’s original post don’t say nothin bout no Wendy 

the post is about the most overpower characters. You cant talk about offtopic when is what you do in the forum. You are just mad because some people is saying that your fav character is op

[thegreatJash]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i just show you the video so you can see that, at night, she doesnt need a elixir to make a pretty decent damage before being low

 

i never said she is the most op thing. I just say that the way abi works makes survival an automatic thing that doesnt really need player interaction which is boring

 

and you are right, i didnt say the opposite, reread my answere to you because i mention the healing elixir a couple of times, and i dont see her op at boss fights, is just another thing to add to his powerful kid

 

the post is about the most overpower characters. You cant talk about offtopic when is what you do in the forum. You are just mad because some people is saying that your fav character is op

Everyone calm down, I thought this was supposed to be a thread about Wolfgang, Wicker, WX, and Wortox

[LordLegato]

I don't get this insistence on Overpowered ness in a non-competitive game. What even is your metric?

[Evalora]

in a cooperative setting overtuned (and often overused due to this) mechanics tend to cheapen the experience for most involved

substantially so given this game revolves around getting punted by difficult scenarios and such

suppose a decent example would be the often brought up wortox mass soul heal, compare what that does to any high-end boss fight as opposed to any other char filling that slot or what any other singular effectiveness increase in that scenario can be in-game, regardless of what that mechanic's attached to or downsides or lack thereof in play with it, that that mechanic exists is probably? bad for the game and what it's trying to be

[QuQuasar]

3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i never said she is the most op thing. I just say that the way abi works makes survival an automatic thing that doesnt really need player interaction which is boring

Personally, I find kiting groups of hounds and spiders dull and repetitive, and consider riling up Abi to melt an entire horde of trash mobs one of the most satisfying things in the game. 

Different strokes.

[viberr]

1 hour ago, QuQuasar said:

Personally, I find kiting groups of hounds and spiders dull and repetitive, and consider riling up Abi to melt an entire horde of trash mobs one of the most satisfying things in the game. 

Different strokes.

yeah its also why i personally play as wendy, for things specifically like hound waves because for me personally my way of handling hounds(when im not wendy) is either go to the swamp or go to the caves and those just take time and travel and i honestly can't be bothered to fight 13 hounds every 7 days or so wendy is perfect for me but i do definitely see why some people dislike her 

as you said,different strokes 

[QuQuasar]

Let's talk about WX-78. 
 
I don't think they're particularly overpowered, certainly not for new players, but as I've mentioned I do thoroughly dislike their perks. Gaining a permanent advantage from eating an extremely valuable resource that the other members of the server need for shared structures like ice boxes and ice flingomatics is just... bad. And then there's overcharge, a very powerful ability which is applied basically at random, unless a specific other character is available to help or late game gear is available.
 
So, let's assume we want to maintain their dual role as a ruins specialist and as a weak early game character who becomes a powerhouse with upgrades. 
 
Firstly, their upgrade material simply should not be gears: instead, it should be Frazzled Wires. Wires are useless trinkets to everyone else, basically just a source of pig king gold, and they are just as prevalent in the ruins as gears are, making them a perfect consumable for a WX-78 in the midst of clearing the ruins. It also encourages grave robbing over murdering robots, which is more fitting for WX's character.
 
Secondly, WX should have multiple upgrade paths that the player can choose from: by combining wires with another resource, they can craft augmentations that permanently upgrade one of their stats or abilities, up to a maximum of 9. Inversely, they should also be able to craft a consumable that resets their augmentations so players can change their loadout down the line.
 
WX should also be able to consume something (perhaps electrical doodads) that allows them to activate overcharge at will, just as Woodie can with his idol's, rather than relying on Wicker.

Possible upgrade paths would include the food, health and sanity stats, as well as improvements and buffs for overcharge. An electrical damage buff would be an obvious one. Maybe even an AOE or chain lightning effect to damage multiple attackers and give him utility against swarm enemies. Combine that with a stun resistance upgrade and WX could serve as an alternative to Abigail for crowd control needs.

I dislike WX at the moment, but I think they are a character with a lot of untapped potential and I look forward to their rework.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

16 minutes ago, QuQuasar said:

Secondly, WX should have multiple upgrade paths that the player can choose

This is something i always wanted (and though he already has when i unlocked him in ds and read his description)

Now, in a multiplayer enviroment, has more sense

[Mike23Ua]

I wish WX had deeper mechanics same as my suggestions of wolfgang- Raw power is completely BORING.

You guys talk a about how OP is Wendy but your not taking into account that Wendy’s Power is entirely Situational- you have to go into fights at dark (the shortest time of day most the time) to get the most use out of Abigail- sure there’s a potion to get night damage but that requires deeper gameplay through finding and helping Pipspook find lost stuff, you also can’t have TWO Potions applied at once (then she really would’ve been OP) 

Wendys power is NOT boring but Rewarding: you have to attack at specific time, use specific tactics, engage in your very own unique gameplay mechanics, etc.

Wolf and WX are Raw Power ONLY: You kill something- You eat what you kill, you level up to be more powerful.

WX78 I would like to see have a harsher downside when Wet.. perhaps even having a new mechanic of too much water starting to short out WX’s circuits and makes it malfunction by moving slower, losing buffs etc... I mean there is a new mob in the game that was introduced in Return of Them called Skittersquid that has a unique attack of spitting ink/oil onto the player when you fight against it- Why can’t WX be more like Tinman from Wizard of Oz movie? Needs to oil himself after taking so much water damages so he doesn’t rust etc.

I want Klei to deliver upon their refresh promise with every single last Refresh they do.

Spoiler

I don’t find just straight up raw power without some catch: without requiring some specific unique gameplay and providing something MORE than just that Raw power alone to be any fun..

Its why I (personally) don’t play much Wolfgang, Wilson or Wes- Their Gameplay is currently too Meh for me.. Despite Wolfgang having the best damages in the entire game.

WX78 only has few unique features: Damaged by rain, eat gears, can eat spoiled foods without penalty.. but I think there’s plenty of room to pump some unique and fun personality & gameplay into WX.

I would like something similar to the iron hulk mechanics from Hamlet, lol

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wendys power is NOT boring but Rewarding

I dont want to keep that wendy topic because i already said my opinion but what is boring of abi is how she deal with small mobs (that one of them are hounds, a suppose challenge for players countered with no effort). With other kind of fights she brings interesting mechanics and i hope, and i think seeing how deep are characters like the new wendy, walter or wortox, that klei will do it with the rest of survivors that are waiting a rework. I was a little dissapointed with wigfrid rework because they could do something with her new bar to make her perks be deerper and not just flat numbers that make her that easy but i dont complain, she brings interesting "late game" buffs, i just hope that will not be the case with wx or wolfg, they have potential for being deeper and fun but keeping his kinda noob friendly power

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I dont want to keep that wendy topic because i already said my opinion but what is boring of abi is how she deal with small mobs (that one of them are hounds, a suppose challenge for players countered with no effort). With other kind of fights she brings interesting mechanics and i hope, and i think seeing how deep are characters like the new wendy, walter or wortox, that klei will do it with the rest of survivors that are waiting a rework. I was a little dissapointed with wigfrid rework because they could do something with her new bar to make her perks be deerper and not just flat numbers that make her that easy but i dont complain, she brings interesting "late game" buffs, i just hope that will not be the case with wx or wolfg, they have potential for being deeper and fun but keeping his kinda noob friendly power

I agree! I disliked Wigfrids rework a lot originally.. but then I played around with the new scrolls a little more, while there are still some that could use tweaks (fireproof) others actually DO bring some uniqueness to her playstyle: I can’t type the actual name of this scroll without completely butchering it- but I particularly like Startling S word scroll, it feels like a “Battle Cry” that makes enemies flee Away in terror of Wigfrid. I always keep that one and Weaponized Warble on me & use both back and forth to save tool durability & to also have enemies run away in fear.

I still wish she had a few deeper Combat mechanics.. something similar to Woodies new Moose charge or the Wheeler dodge- but it is what it is.

[Cheggf]

10 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

Firstly, their upgrade material simply should not be gears: instead, it should be Frazzled Wires. Wires are useless trinkets to everyone else, basically just a source of pig king gold, and they are just as prevalent in the ruins as gears are, making them a perfect consumable for a WX-78 in the midst of clearing the ruins.

Best idea about WX I've ever heard. Him eating gears to upgrade works fine in DSA where you're the only person there, there's a lot more gears, and no one except you needs to use gears. In DST it really isn't fitting, especially if there's more than one WX player.

[Moonatik]

On 1/17/2021 at 4:20 PM, HeilerderWelten said:

 

Wolfgang:

 

- it became even worse since we have the character switch, everytime when I want to fight a raid boss, I switch to Wolfgang, because every fight only last half as long, that means I need way less armor, healing, weapons, ressources, it is a waste of time to fight raid bosses with any character but Wolfgang

 

 

That's what I won't never understand, a kind of unfair state with Wolfgang as I'm reading you. But it's not.

Why do you force yourself to switch for Wolfgang if you think he's too poweful ? Wouldn't you switch if he was nerfed ? Why would you use him if he's nerfed ? To train him and having the same result ?

So you play with Wilson, and at some point, you'll think "what a waste of ressources if I'm fighting the dragonfly with Wilson, lets take the power" ? And beyond that, a "waste of time" with any other character (that time suject kills me). So as always, Klei should totally erase the Wolfgang possibility because you'd be sure you won't switch for him.

But without this power, what become to all this waste ? 

I really hope they'll never nerf him. Especially when nerf is asked for bad reasons.

We don't need balance between characters, but eventually good and fun downsides without nerf.

 

[Evalora]

7 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Best idea about WX I've ever heard. Him eating gears to upgrade works fine in DSA where you're the only person there, there's a lot more gears, and no one except you needs to use gears. In DST it really isn't fitting, especially if there's more than one WX player.

this would also be fairly easy to mod

from wx78.lua

local function oneat(inst, food)
    if food and food.components.edible and food.components.edible.foodtype == FOODTYPE.GEARS then
        --give an upgrade!
        inst.level = inst.level + 1
        applyupgrades(inst) 
        inst.SoundEmitter:PlaySound("dontstarve/characters/wx78/levelup")

...

local function ondeath(inst)
    if inst.level > 0 then
        local dropgears = math.random(math.floor(inst.level / 3), math.ceil(inst.level / 2))
        if dropgears > 0 then
            for i = 1, dropgears do
                local gear = SpawnPrefab("gears")

...

    if inst.components.eater ~= nil then
        inst.components.eater.ignoresspoilage = true
        inst.components.eater:SetCanEatGears()
        inst.components.eater:SetOnEatFn(oneat)
    end

quite a few of these bits revolving around gears show up, one just swaps the instances of being able to eat gears/using gears to levelup/dropping gears on death and such with wires

the capacity to still use gears like that could still stay (people can prol swing one way or another on that) but think in general that'd be quite a good change

[HowlVoid]

To me it makes more sense to balance everyone around the premise that they can be just as great. They are late bloomers and are only recently reaching their true potential. With Wendy and Warly proving they can be just as great if not better.

I may be in the minority but I think Wickerbottom and Wx-78 are overrated. Their perks and powers are nothing revolutionary and are replaced with easier to work with alternatives. Wx-78's speed boost is not reliable and was heavily nerfed as a result of 'The end is nigh!'. 

 

[Mysterious box]

Prophets told of this thread's revival let's see if they were right.