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The 4 most overpowered characters and how to balance them?


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Greetings survivors of the constant.

DST balanced with there character reworks several characters and made them more enjoyable and more interesting.

But we have still 3 of the old overpowered and 1 new overpowered char in the game, that tower over everyone else.

Wickerbottom:

- can spawn tentacles that completly demolish Beequeen, Dragonfly, hound waves, etc. 

- she has a cheaper "panflute book"

- her downsides are irelevant: she can't sleep and can't eat stale food, there are so many ways to avoid those downsides

- the rest of her books and traits are fine (now after applied horticulture abridged)

- of course her rework could bring her new interesting books with new effects that could be balanced arount crafting cost, etc.

WX 78:

- the gears buff are not the problem

- but the overload is, it lets him run 50% faster (stacks with roads, walking cane) emit a small circle of light around him (he is immune to the night) and makes him immune to freezing, all of that is extremly powerful, but would be still fine because it doesn't last that long, the problem here is Wickerbottoms lightning strike book, with this book she can just stack that overcharge effect for such a long time that it becomes broken to no end, and the book is cheap to craft

- he should be upgradable with the powers of other clockworks, rook charge, bishop range attack, floaty boaty knight boad mode, something that makes his machine side more interesting

- he should get way more damage from beeing wet

Wolfgang:

- he does the damage of 2 characters all by himself, the problem here is that every boss that gets added must be balanced around Wolfgangs damage multiplier, Toadstool has 52000 health and one reason for that is Wolfgangs strength, because every boss in the game must last long enough for the characters to remain a challange and Wolfgang sets the health bar of anything so high, that every other character suffers from that

- it became even worse since we have the character switch, everytime when I want to fight a raid boss, I switch to Wolfgang, because every fight only last half as long, that means I need way less armor, healing, weapons, ressources, it is a waste of time to fight raid bosses with any character but Wolfgang

- there has to be a solution to that, Wolfgang shouldn't be a switch to boss kill character, he should build up his strength with time, like Wilson needs time to grow his beard, WX 78 needs time to level up with gears, Wurt needs time to build her merm kingdom and when you switch to a diffrent char, Wolfgang should loose its power again, like WX 78 looses its buff from gears when he dies

- he should get stronger when he does physical labor, chopping trees, mining boulders, fighting, training, etc. so that he buffs himself like a real strong man would do, not just by eating 3 meat balls made of 9 ice and 3 monster meat

- besides of that he should have other interesting trades aswell, beside his fighting power

Wortox:

- he gets souls from killing living creatures, with souls he teleports, he heals 20 health and he can eat them for 18 hunger

- the reason why this gets so absolutely broken are bees and butterflies

- killing a butterfly grants him 1 soul that heals 20 health (+4 health of the buttyfly wing, he gets only half the effects of food) or 18 hunger (+4 hunger from the wings)

- killing 5 butterflies, one of the easiest to kill mobs in the game grants him more than 100 health or 90 hunger and only cost him 25 sanity (he loses 5 sanity by eating souls)

- can also catch butterflies, bees, etc with a bugnet and can store even more "souls" this way, this is completly insane

- little critters like bees, butterflies, mosquitos, etc.shouldn't drop souls, that would make him way more balanced

- he could still have a living rabbit, moleworm in his inventory, that he can kill for 1 soul, but you can't stack rabbits and your item slots are limited

- besides of that Wortox is actually fine, he is still very strong, but atleast you have to kill spiders for souls, they can atleast try to fight back, a butterfly can not

 

I am very interested in your thoughts, how would you balance those 4 characters?

Which interesting new strange powers could Wickerbottom, Wolfgang and WX78 get?

And why do you hate Wes so much? ^O^

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I dont think Don't Starve Together needs to be a very balanced game. Anyone is free to play any character they like. But some of them needs to be a team character what i mean is Wolfgang and WX only consumes but dont give anything return. They need few mecanics to help to team just like Wigfrid with her helmets and stagecrafts. Or maybe these two needs some fun game mecanics too. That is all i got to say. Don't Starve Together is not a balanced game.

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19 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

Wickerbottom:

- can spawn tentacles that completly demolish Beequeen, Dragonfly, hound waves, etc. 

At the cost of a giant scar on your world that's probably going to end up killing you several times too :p. Tentacle traps are really cool mechanically but god, they end up killing you just as much as they kill bosses, especially if you experience even a little bit of lag. They're also SO durable, so if you ever want to get rid of them then good luck, I've been trying to replace mine with catapults for a while and those tentacles have managed to take down probably 10 Bee Queens and a full herd of day 1000+ Beefalo, without even half of the tentacles dying.

Also, reminder that WX-78 uses they/them pronouns.

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9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

aswell as i think that wes shouldnt be buffed i dont think they should be nerfed. Just bring interesting gameplay

its like the RWYS update, is so damn broken but is fun

 

pd.: you forgot wendy

I get that point of view, but in my humble opinion Wolfgangs fighting power is so absurd that it doesn't make sense why you should fight any raid boss with there high health pools with any char but Wolfgang. Especially now with character switching. 

It is such a massive ressource waste to not fight those bosses with Wolfgang and at the same time, Wolfgang is so boring besides his damage buff. He is a prime example for a switch and forget character, like Winona for her catapults or Maxwell gathering logs and rocks.

All of them could be more interesting in consecutive play and they probably will after there reworks.

The other problem with Wolfgang is, that his damage multiplier sets the health of bosses just to high for every other character, so every other character suffers form his strength inderectly.

I really love Wolfgang, he is one of my favorites, but he is a problem for the game in my opinion.

20 minutes ago, obekovbuti said:

I dont think Don't Starve Together needs to be a very balanced game. Anyone is free to play any character they like. But some of them needs to be a team character what i mean is Wolfgang and WX only consumes but dont give anything return. They need few mecanics to help to team just like Wigfrid with her helmets and stagecrafts. Or maybe these two needs some fun game mecanics too. That is all i got to say. Don't Starve Together is not a balanced game.

I disagree, Wolfgang ends fights so quickly that the team will waste less ressources on fights.

Wolfgang can farm all by himself dragon scales from the dragon fly (you need 2 charactrs with dark swords to acomplish that task),

He has also more managable hunger drain, because you only go into mighty form when you fight, so food isn't that big of a deal.

WX 78 on the other hand is probably the best ruins rusher in the game, so he gets his gears (and there are mor than enough gears in the ruins) all by himself, he will also bring thulecite gear for the rest of the team back, after he is finished.

But yeah, I think you are completly right with adding more fun mechanics to them.

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8 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

I get that point of view, but in my humble opinion Wolfgangs fighting power is so absurd that it doesn't make sense why you should fight any raid boss with there high health pools with any char but Wolfgang. Especially now with character switching. 

It is such a massive ressource waste to not fight those bosses with Wolfgang and at the same time, Wolfgang is so boring besides his damage buff. He is a prime example for a switch and forget character, like Winona for her catapults or Maxwell gathering logs and rocks.

All of them could be more interesting in consecutive play and they probably will after there reworks.

The other problem with Wolfgang is, that his damage multiplier sets the health of bosses just to high for every other character, so every other character suffers form his strength inderectly.

I really love Wolfgang, he is one of my favorites, but he is a problem for the game in my opinion.

im with you that his power is cheap but tell me a boss that consumes that much resources if we dont take in count CK and misery toad?

the incetive to fight bosses with a non wolfgang is to enjoy the fight, with wolfg it doesnt last long and you are safe knowing you will defeat them even making mistakes (what matters if the boss heals if you do more damage than his heals?)

also, portal is a thing, klei added it to make long worlds less repetitive since you can change character and keep building without being bored of the character AND adjusting the difficulty for solo players since you can use many perks like if you were playing with others. Is your choice to reduce the difficulty or not like using catapults or voltgoat jelly

 

edit: for example i only use voltgoat jelly to fight CK because i dont feel confidence to fight him with regular damage so I HAVE DECIDE to make that fight easier. I could make that fight even easier if i eat the buff as wolfgang so there is no complains about HP

also toad has 52000hp because you can hit him  A LOT so, at the end, the fight isnt that long, kinda like what happen with antlion

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21 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

At the cost of a giant scar on your world that's probably going to end up killing you several times too :p. Tentacle traps are really cool mechanically but god, they end up killing you just as much as they kill bosses, especially if you experience even a little bit of lag. They're also SO durable, so if you ever want to get rid of them then good luck, I've been trying to replace mine with catapults for a while and those tentacles have managed to takedown probably 10 Bee Queens and a full herd of day 1000+ Beefalo, without even half of the tentacles dying.

Also, reminder that WX-78 uses they/them pronouns.

Bearger and Deerclops will kill the tentacles eventually, depends on how many there are. The would struggle against 50+ *laugh*

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2 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

Bearger and Deerclops will kill the tentacles eventually, depends on how many there are. The would struggle against 50+ *laugh*

i see wickedbottom as a "using console commands" character which is pretty cool in this game as a mechanic. she only needs an interesting gameplay outside of the books+downside, if they add a hard downside i would love to see even more powerfull books 

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3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the incetive to fight bosses with a non wolfgang is to enjoy the fight, with wolfg it doesnt last long and you are safe knowing you will defeat them even making mistakes (what matters if the boss heals if you do more damage than his heals?)

Absolutely true, but there are maybe 5% of the player base that would take that challenge for enjoyment. While the other 95% just take Wolfgang, avoid the challenge of the boss and gather the boss loot without much "struggle".

And yes, that could be a way how the game is played, sure.

I just have the idea, that the game could be more enjoyable for more people, when Wolfgangs damage buff wouldn't set the health bars of bosses so high, that the conclusion for most player to that problem would be:

1. I just change to Wolfgang and have a easier time.

2. I just don't fight the 50000 health toad boss at all.

It is a difficult thing to do for Klei, if you should balance anything at all, but withe the applied horticulture abridged book they did, so balance is clearly in there mind.

The question that I have is just, what is the best for the game and for the community, but I quiet frankly don't now.

10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i see wickedbottom as a "using console commands" character which is pretty cool in this game as a mechanic. she only needs an interesting gameplay outside of the books+downside, if they add a hard downside i would love to see even more powerfull books 

If you have a strong char like Wicker but you balance her with an equally strong downside, I would be completly fine with her to be honest.

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Being fast with another character's book is not op, it's senseless. WX-78 is almost nothing without being a parasyte of Wickerbottom. Yes he have health like how Wurt and Wolfgang can have and did you ever heard of kiting? The only thing that make health problem is bad connection and gear is expensive in first days. Yes he can eat stale food but it's not making sense bc I don't eat stale food at all, usually I make food only when I need. So I think he deserves to be next rework.

I don't know who was talk about it but I saw an idea and I really like it about Wortox. This person was talking about turning souls into different things like teleport soul, healing soul instead of making all of them one. Wortox is OP. He is first character that I suggest my new friends. I don't care if he stay OP but would want to see more interesting mechanic for him, not just drop to heal, click to go and eat to feed. He is not deep and feels like a mod character.
 

About Wicker & Wolfgang uhmm. They are easy but I don't have any idea to make them better so I will pass them.
 

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58 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

he does the damage of 2 characters all by himself, the problem here is that every boss that gets added must be balanced around Wolfgangs damage multiplier, Toadstool has 52000 health and one reason for that is Wolfgangs strength, because every boss in the game must last long enough for the characters to remain a challange and Wolfgang sets the health bar of anything so high, that every other character suffers from that

Ignoring the weird Wolfgang, WX, and Wortox are super op characters stuff, I just want to say that this isn't true either. The fights aren't balanced around Wolfgang, the fights are balanced around having several characters. Wolfgang has the damage output of two characters so he compensates for solo players.

Toadstool has 52k health because he's the optional tank boss. Nothing to do with Wolfgang.

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I don't really think any of these characters need to be balanced, but I do hope they get their refresh updates soon cause (other than Wortox) they're not the most interesting characters to pick. Especially WX.

Wickerbottom needs a bunch of tentacle spots and a lot of wall building and book reading for something just bringing others along would skip entirely. Raid bosses like Dragonfly and Bee Queen are easy enough to fight with friends, even early game. Especially if there's a Wigfrid and/or a Wendy to help the team with armor+healing/crowd control.

As for Wortox, I think small creatures like butterflies dropping souls is fine. His half-hunger downside can be really detrimental to less experienced players, which may end up being upset at the fact that they spent money (or a lot of spools) on him if he has that much more trouble surviving than other characters. Butterflies work early-game, but they only spawn once every 10 seconds. I personally think he ends up having the chore of needing to kill stuff relatively often to keep his teleports (due to the soul cap), which other characters don't always have to do. The teleporting and healing are great, but I don't think they really break the game in any way.

I do think Wolfgang's damage can be absurd, and despite his extra hunger drain he can be really efficient hunger-wise with a small potato farm. I actually would not mind him building up his strength over time or anything like that, but if he doesn't have any other perks you end up being stuck playing Wilson for however long it takes to start getting a significant damage (and speed) boost. I think the damage boost helps when there aren't many people playing, since it helps me kill bosses I would otherwise need a bunch of other players/catapults for.

As much as I love WX-78's character, I absolutely hate them in-game. I really, really hope they're the next character Klei updates because I really don't think their perks work well in DST. They eat the gears that others may find valuable early-game and have to keep bugging a Wickerbottom later on to make use of their other perk. I do think the overpowered part of them would be the stats if anything, but I don't really mind them being overpowered as long as they don't do it at others' expense.

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It's interesting that the community has such an issue with overpowered-ness. In my opinion, the issue is not that these characters are overpowered but that they lack depth.

Wickerbottom has the illusion of depth because she has a lot to offer through her magical books, but that doesn't mean she is a well designed character. You touch on it a little bit, but I don't think her problem is that she is overpowered. I think her problem is that she is bland. Her downsides are nonexistent. In my opinion the downside is usually what makes or breaks that character's record. For example, Wigfrid is a super fun character to play. She has interesting upsides, while having a downside that limits her playstyle in a much different way. It is interesting and fun to engage with. Same with Wurt! Or Warly even! Although the metrics don't show it, he's a super fun character to play purely because his downside mixes up the way he plays drastically.

So looking at it from this perspective, I think characters like Wolfgang need touching up. Not because they are overpowered, but because they are just bland the way that they are. It just so happens that introducing interesting downsides might also bring them down a notch.

Wortox I think is a good example here. Wortox also completely changes the way you play the game. At least when I play him, I don't get normal food at all. I focus on exploration a TON and setting up bee boxes/butterfly farms very early so I can secure a food source. Then I make sure to set up good sources of sanity replenishment to compensate for how insane I will be from eating all those delicious souls. I think Wortox is a fantastically designed character, but his downsides could be a bit heavier.

WX is in need of a huge rework. Not only does he bring nothing to the team at all, he even uses up precious resources compared to any other character, all while having completely negligible downsides. He's honestly quite boring to play, and I hope he sees a rework before any of the other characters mentioned, because it's pretty embarrassing how trivial he is to play in a game of uncompromising survival

Also, using the character switching argument for why a character is poorly designed is honestly pointless. You could use that same argument for pretty much any character in the game. You want to chop down a forest? Wouldn't it be super time inefficient to do that as someone like Wilson? Switch to Woodie! You want to clear a spider biome? It would be really slow if I did that as Wolfgang... I think I'll swap to Wendy.

See how that logic doesn't work?

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35 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Ignoring the weird Wolfgang, WX, and Wortox are super op characters stuff, I just want to say that this isn't true either. The fights aren't balanced around Wolfgang, the fights are balanced around having several characters. Wolfgang has the damage output of two characters so he compensates for solo players.

Toadstool has 52k health because he's the optional tank boss. Nothing to do with Wolfgang.

It is a massive difference if 4 players fight toadstool with Wilson or any other character or 4 players fight it with Wolfgang. So even in terms of multiple players Wolfgangs influence would be massive.

So it still has something to do with Wolfgang, because Klei is balancing bosses around the characters and Wolfgang raises that bar.

Besides of that I have no clue what you think is weird about the statement that things like:

- 5 Butterflies heal 100 health/90 hunger for Wortox

- Wolfgang does 136 damage with 1 Dark sword hit by just eating some meatballs as a trade off

- or WX 78 can be 50% faster, emiting light, is immune to freezing for several days

are OP as hell.

What exactly is weird about that statement Cheggf?

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6 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

It is a massive difference if 4 players fight toadstool with Wilson or any other character or 4 players fight it with Wolfgang. So even in terms of multiple players Wolfgangs influence would be massive.

What is the issue here? Your team purposefully picks the best character for handling bosses in the game (hand to hand at least) and you are thus rewarded for it? If your entire team picks the strongman, that should be pretty reflective in the time it takes to kill bosses...

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2 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

It is a massive difference if 4 players fight toadstool with Wilson or any other character or 4 players fight it with Wolfgang. So even in terms of multiple players Wolfgangs influence would be massive.

So it still has something to do with Wolfgang, because Klei is balancing bosses around the characters and Wolfgang raises that bar.

6 wolfgangs with spicy chaud-froid will kill Deerclops in 1 second. They will kill Dragonfly in under 5 seconds. The fights are not balanced around buffed characters.

Also, Winona catapults.

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43 minutes ago, Souper said:

It's interesting that the community has such an issue with overpowered-ness. In my opinion, the issue is not that these characters are overpowered but that they lack depth.

Wickerbottom has the illusion of depth because she has a lot to offer through her magical books, but that doesn't mean she is a well designed character. You touch on it a little bit, but I don't think her problem is that she is overpowered. I think her problem is that she is bland. Her downsides are nonexistent. In my opinion the downside is usually what makes or breaks that character's record. For example, Wigfrid is a super fun character to play. She has interesting upsides, while having a downside that limits her playstyle in a much different way. It is interesting and fun to engage with. Same with Wurt! Or Warly even! Although the metrics don't show it, he's a super fun character to play purely because his downside mixes up the way he plays drastically.

So looking at it from this perspective, I think characters like Wolfgang need touching up. Not because they are overpowered, but because they are just bland the way that they are. It just so happens that introducing interesting downsides might also bring them down a notch.

Wortox I think is a good example here. Wortox also completely changes the way you play the game. At least when I play him, I don't get normal food at all. I focus on exploration a TON and setting up bee boxes/butterfly farms very early so I can secure a food source. Then I make sure to set up good sources of sanity replenishment to compensate for how insane I will be from eating all those delicious souls. I think Wortox is a fantastically designed character, but his downsides could be a bit heavier.

WX is in need of a huge rework. Not only does he bring nothing to the team at all, he even uses up precious resources compared to any other character, all while having completely negligible downsides. He's honestly quite boring to play, and I hope he sees a rework before any of the other characters mentioned, because it's pretty embarrassing how trivial he is to play in a game of uncompromising survival

Also, using the character switching argument for why a character is poorly designed is honestly pointless. You could use that same argument for pretty much any character in the game. You want to chop down a forest? Wouldn't it be super time inefficient to do that as someone like Wilson? Switch to Woodie! You want to clear a spider biome? It would be really slow if I did that as Wolfgang... I think I'll swap to Wendy.

See how that logic doesn't work?

The character switching is especially problematic for characters that have only 1-2 interesting things to offer. Like Winonas catapults and Wolfgangs boss killing powerm, after you did those tasks the incentive to play those characters is almost gone. Characters like Webber and Wurt build there creature kingdoms and other characters can't control merms and spiders like they can, so Wurts and Webbers incentive to play them for a long time is much greater than Winonas and Wolfs. Wolfgang is sadly so boring and most people won't play him outside of boss fights and that is what the reworks will hopefully change.

 

12 minutes ago, Souper said:

What is the issue here? Your team purposefully picks the best character for handling bosses in the game (hand to hand at least) and you are thus rewarded for it? If your entire team picks the strongman, that should be pretty reflective in the time it takes to kill bosses...

Exactly my point. Just switch to Wolfgang for the cost of 1 moon stone, 1 red gem and 1 blue gem and demolish the boss, spare your ressources for weapons, armor etc. and then switch back to a character that you actually want to play outside of boss fights. That is Wolfgangs problem.

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"Ah **** here we go again" why wicker is op? omg every single day there's a post complaning about wicker we already get hate enough and people keep saying she's op because she can produce large amounts of food and has a "panflute" which is almost useless since takes such long time to use, one book that only charge WX and don't worth anything else, birds books that only use is to farm krampus and having resources is not OP i'm playing Woodie and i had by day 25, i have 400 twigs and 400 grass when i play wicker i get less than that since i do other things with her because she need special attention, sleep is very underestimate by people  i can't count how many times being able to sleep  would avoid me waste time to grab sanity food or making farm to heal myself.

Tentacles are only usefull to bee quen and  after the last update she lost interest on them very quickly and you have to keep risking your life to keep her there, she's the only who can make tentacles renewable so this is op? wendy can beat bee queen very easy that's make wendy op? NO.

Wolfgang has no real downsides, you only  need might form when fighting, he has a lot of sanity so you can easily beat any boss without going insane, double damage and speed bonus, 300hp and bigger hunger, he's literraly press F to win for casual players and even powerfull to experiencied players who know how to dodge but tell how wicker is op?.

Wicker is high reward / high risk since bad players only know how to spam her farm book and that's not enough to survive or beat everthing in the game, wolfgang is high reward / no risk, wx is high reward / medium risk, he need to build up with gears which are preety hard early and not everyone rush ruins, wortox is such good character he can help others but he has a high metabolism and get 50% less from foods and eatings souls make you insane  so you need to know how to manage your sanity to don't screw youself and a lot of people say that sanity is "hard" to keep(Which is not true) so if hard to keep sanity high how is easy to play wortox? 

Wicker is not op she needs better books things more usefull and not only wx charger, beequeen trap(which is bad now) farm book(which we barely use one or two times by season?) and  birds books to farm krampus(i almost never do krampus farm since is only 1% to get his bag).

Wolfgang is OP and need a rework(Not a nerf just aREWORK) and i already suggest some very interesstings updates to him to make deep gameplay and less brain dead.

Wx is fine but he don't have anything good beside being able to upgrade himself

wortox  is fine if we had to kill 10 butterflies to get one soul this would not change anything since  we  would have so much butterflies that healing by them would be better than using souls.

I think everyone in this list is fine beside wolfgang which is broken and don't have any deep gameplay to his players.

Sorry if i  sound rude but everyday is the same thing complaning about wicker and i can't barely play in servers without people shaming my character sayin  "oh there's a console character now"

Cheers (Not gonna reply comments since there's "strange guy" which always send me hate when i say wicker is not op).

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5 minutes ago, Lord Cafe said:

"Ah **** here we go again" why wicker is op? omg every single day there's a post complaning about wicker we already get hate enough and people keep saying she's op because she can produce large amounts of food and has a "panflute" which is almost useless since takes such long time to use, one book that only charge WX and don't worth anything else, birds books only use is to farm krampus and having resources is not OP how many times i need to explain that? i'm playing Woodie and i had by 25, 400 twigs and 400 grass when i play wicker i get less than that since i do other things with her because she need special attention, sleep is very underestimate by people  i can't how many times being able to sleep  would avoid me waste time to grab sanity food or making farm to heal myself.

Tentacles are only usefull to bee quen and  after the last update she lost interest on them very quickly and you have to keep risking your life to keep her there, she's the only who can make tentacles renewable so this is op? wendy can beat bee queen very easy that's make wendy op? NO.

Wolfgang has no real downsides, you only  need might form when fighting, he has a lot of sanity so you can easily beat any boss without going insane, double damage and speed bonus, 300hp and bigger hunger, he's literraly press F to win for casual players and even powerfull to experiencied players who know how to dodge but tell how wicker is op?.

Wicker is high reward / high risk since bad players only know how to spawn her farm book and that's not enough to survive or beat everthing in the game, wolfgang is high reward / no risk, wx is high reward / medium risk, he need to build up with gears which are preety hard early and not everyone rush ruins, wortox is such good character he can help others but he has a high metabolism and get 50% less from foods and eatings souls make you insane  so you need to know how to manage your sanity to don't screw youself and a lot of people say that sanity is "hard" to keep(Which is not true) so if hard to keep sanity high how is easy to play wortox? 

Wicker is not op she needs better books things more usefull and not only wx charger, beequeen trap(which is bad now) farm book(which we barely use one or two times by season?) and  birds books to farm krampus(i almost never do krampus farm since is only 1% to get his bag).

Wolfgang is OP and need a rework(Not a nerf REWORK) and i already suggest some very interesstings updates to him to make deep gameplay and less brain dead.

Wx is fine but he don't have anything good beside being able to upgrade himself

wortox  is fine if we had to kill 10 spiders to get one soul this would  change anything since  we  would have so much butterflies that healing by them would be better than using souls.

I think everyone in this list is fine beside wolfgang which is broken and don't have any deep gameplay to his players.

Cheers (Not gonna reply comments since there's a some "strange guy" which always send me hate when i say wicker is not op).

All of them need more interesting powers, we can agree on that. ^O^

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3 minutes ago, Lord Cafe said:

 

lel wolfgang op but wicker balanced

atleast with wolfg you have to actually fight bosses instead of being hide in a bush hat

4 minutes ago, Lord Cafe said:

sleep is very underestimate by people

because is nearly useless compared with any other method of recovering hp and sanity, more since RWYS came

 

5 minutes ago, Lord Cafe said:

Wolfgang has no real downsides

he has more downsides than wicker

 

5 minutes ago, Lord Cafe said:

i'm playing Woodie and i had by 25, 400 twigs and 400 grass when i play wicker i get less than that since i do other things with her because she need special attention

which special attention? both characters are wilson like so i dont get why you cant get that amount of grass and twigs

also in mid game you can grow as much grass and twigs as you want as wicker so this example has no sense

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43 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said:

The character switching is especially problematic for characters that have only 1-2 interesting things to offer. Like Winonas catapults and Wolfgangs boss killing powerm, after you did those tasks the incentive to play those characters is almost gone. Characters like Webber and Wurt build there creature kingdoms and other characters can't control merms and spiders like they can, so Wurts and Webbers incentive to play them for a long time is much greater than Winonas and Wolfs. Wolfgang is sadly so boring and most people won't play him outside of boss fights and that is what the reworks will hopefully change.

 

Exactly my point. Just switch to Wolfgang for the cost of 1 moon stone, 1 red gem and 1 blue gem and demolish the boss, spare your ressources for weapons, armor etc. and then switch back to a character that you actually want to play outside of boss fights. That is Wolfgangs problem.

That is not an issue with the characters. That is an issue with being able to switch characters on a whim with negligible cost. If you ask me, the ability to switch characters is pretty stupid. If you're going to have it, it should at the very least be a very expensive endeavor.

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3 minutes ago, Souper said:

That is not an issue with the characters. That is an issue with being able to switch characters on a whim with negligible cost. If you ask me, the ability to switch characters is pretty stupid. If you're going to have it, it should at the very least be a very expensive endeavor.

This would fix alot, but at the same time we have still characters that arn't very enjoyable to play longterm, like Wolf.

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1 minute ago, HeilerderWelten said:

This would fix alot, but at the same time we have still characters that arn't very enjoyable to play longterm, like Wolf.

I would sort of agree. Personally I find Wolfgang very fun, but he is definitely bland in my opinion. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. But I don't think it's an issue with the characters being overpowered. This game isn't exactly balanced, and I don't think we should fight tooth and nail to do so. The characters should just be more interesting.

Character swapping is an entirely different conversation though, and a feature I'm not very fond of at all.

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I think the most important thing is a downside that deeply affects gameplay, Wigfrid is an good example of this as well as Maxwell and to a lesser extent Wendy their downsides encourage them to use their upsides, Wigfrid fights for meat, Maxwell should be more dependent on his shadow duelists but they aren't that good, and Wendy is encouraged to fight with Abigail

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Excepting Wortox, "The Holy Trinity" of Wicker, Wolf, and WX will eventually get reworked, and most certainly will incorporate certain "softcore" nerfs (because KLei tested those waters with Wicker's Applied Horticulture tone-down and it showed how "well received" that was in bulk player-base). I don't think any one of them will be completely revamped.

Likewise I don't believe this silly game should be strictly mechanically balanced. More-so, its balance was made for groups of moderately-skilled players (I would reckon an average of 4 to 6 - aka maximum number of players allowed on personal vanilla servers), ones that get the basics of DST but aren't competent enough to trivialize character cons or game as a whole - for them mentioned cons most likely matter (as opposed to the tiny vocal minority advocating for hard nerfs all around on these forums time-and-again). Once more: general balance is geared towards general player populace, not only a select advanced few - this should always be kept to mind.

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