The 4 most overpowered characters and how to balance them?

[CremeLover]

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

That's not bad with big guys at all. When combined with Abigail that still puts her above every single character except for Wigfrid (who she's only slightly behind) and Wolfgang.

Not really, if the big bad has AoE of any kind, Abigail is going to last for a quarter of the fight at best. Abi is strong at AoE but weak against AoE, like a dragon type in Pokemon .

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

What?

Implementation when it comes to the side that handles the code, I'd be easier for Wendy to put a tag on a mob for the 2 seconds, and Abigail do the debuff if one of the mobs she hits has a tag made by Wendy. Same output, but functional difference.

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

And it does not encourage them to fight together because Abigail is so strong on her own.

Yes.

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You can literally be afk in the middle of nowhere and come back to your computer to see a bunch of monster meat and teeth on the floor if you had her on aggressive mode.

And your ghost as well, because Abigail will tag the dog that first shows up and when is the furthest away, leaving your flesh at the mercy of the rest of the angry dogs.

Source: I have done it.

Plus, if its daytime, and you do not put in the effort to synchronize the dogs to attack Abigail at roughly the same time (and use her shield) she might not be able to clear the wave by herself.

.And don't even try that on summer/autumn if you don't want your base and half your inventory to turn into ash.

[Mike23Ua]

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You can literally be afk in the middle of nowhere and come back to your computer to see a bunch of monster meat and teeth on the floor if you had her on aggressive mode.

I don’t get it.. so your complaining that Wendy’s character is good at what she’s intended to be able to do?

Character downsides: ALL Character Downsides for all the characters that have been reworked are seemingly vanishing into obscurity all together- or becoming significantly less difficult to manage.

Winona’s get hungry faster from crafting is now completely by passable altogether thanks to her SPEED crafting perk which means: To counter her Downside you only need to craft your items in bulk so the food penalty doesn’t kick in.

Woodies Downside of triggering his Axe Lucy’s curse by chopping too much Wood is now completely “Axed” (sorry I had to do that terrible pun) from the franchise in favor of now being able to chop as much Wood as his heart desires and self trigger his transformation with totems that force them.

Willows Downsides of going insane when cold are lessened by holding Bernie in your hand slot and wearing a Winter Hat (doesn’t really even need Thermal) Bernie provides warmth while being held, AND if she does Manage to lose Sanity Bernie transforms into a hulking monster to make those Insanity creatures a Non-Issue.

Wendys downside of hitting below average is now completely Nullified as long as she attacks enemies that are being bestowed with Abigails Damage Buff. This Excludes Shadow Monsters: Abigail won’t help fight these at all.

Wormwoods downside of being unable to heal from eating food items has now became almost laughably easy to maintain with the ability to heal with Rot+ the new RWYS crops where you can intentionally mass produce Rot: Wormwood only has 150 Max HP and rot heals for 4 Hp per rot and stacks to 40... it may not be his BEST healing option but you can’t freaking deny it made healing as him a Non-Issue now. That doesn’t even include his resistance to Wetness, ability to farm easily, ability to trigger his speed bloom buffs at will.

I used to see Wormwood as a tough as nails challenge character, NOW he feels like a really good neutral character choice.

Even Wigfrids downside of being a Carnivore is becoming significantly less difficult to manage with the introduction of a sailable ocean and fishing, new meat source mobs, and the ability to now use Batilisks wings in Crockpot dishes.

My point here is that “Harsh Crippling Downsides” are going the way of Warbucks- Like it or not.

 

[Well-met]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t get it.. so your complaining that Wendy’s character is good at what she’s intended to be able to do?

Character downsides: ALL Character Downsides for all the characters that have been reworked are seemingly vanishing into obscurity all together- or becoming significantly less difficult to manage.

Winona’s get hungry faster from crafting is now completely by passable altogether thanks to her SPEED crafting perk which means: To counter her Downside you only need to craft your items in bulk so the food penalty doesn’t kick in.

Woodies Downside of triggering his Axe Lucy’s curse by chopping too much Wood is now completely “Axed” (sorry I had to do that terrible pun) from the franchise in favor of now being able to chop as much Wood as his heart desires and self trigger his transformation with totems that force them.

Willows Downsides of going insane when cold are lessened by holding Bernie in your hand slot and wearing a Winter Hat (doesn’t really even need Thermal) Bernie provides warmth while being held, AND if she does Manage to lose Sanity Bernie transforms into a hulking monster to make those Insanity creatures a Non-Issue.

Wendys downside of hitting below average is now completely Nullified as long as she attacks enemies that are being bestowed with Abigails Damage Buff. This Excludes Shadow Monsters: Abigail won’t help fight these at all.

Wormwoods downside of being unable to heal from eating food items has now became almost laughably easy to maintain with the ability to heal with Rot+ the new RWYS crops where you can intentionally mass produce Rot: Wormwood only has 150 Max HP and rot heals for 4 Hp per rot and stacks to 40... it may not be his BEST healing option but you can’t freaking deny it made healing as him a Non-Issue now. That doesn’t even include his resistance to Wetness, ability to farm easily, ability to trigger his speed bloom buffs at will.

I used to see Wormwood as a tough as nails challenge character, NOW he feels like a really good neutral character choice.

Even Wigfrids downside of being a Carnivore is becoming significantly less difficult to manage with the introduction of a sailable ocean and fishing, new meat source mobs, and the ability to now use Batilisks wings in Crockpot dishes.

My point here is that “Harsh Crippling Downsides” are going the way of Warbucks- Like it or not.

 

cold, hunger, healing and no veggie are real downsides wheter you downplay them or not.

what is wendy's downside exactly?

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Well-met said:

cold, hunger, healing and no veggie are real downsides wheter you downplay them or not.

what is wendy's downside exactly?

Shadow creatures.. which we not only got a new one, a patch to fix exploiting existing ones, but we also triggered a WARZONE that has them appearing more frequently.

Checkmate.

[Well-met]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Shadow creatures.. which we not only got a new one, a patch to fix exploiting existing ones, but we also triggered a WARZONE that has them appearing more frequently.

Checkmate.

not only sanity is a entirely controllable factor but it so turns out wendy also has her own sanity machine to make it even easier to manage.

worst case scenario, it is merely a few more hits for completely avoidable mobs.

[Notecja]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

her UNIQUE downside is her 0.75 damage agaisnt shadows that with 200 sanity, less sanity drain and the sistrum gets removed most of the time. Nothing else

+It makes a bit harder to farm nightmare fuel. At least not in the most direct way.

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

What is that math? Abigail attacks once a second, and players attack either 2 or 2.5 times a second (I forget which). That puts a perfectly fresh ham bat at 119 or 148.7 DPS and a perfectly fresh Wendybat at either 137.4 or 171.8 DPS. Adding Abigail's 40 DPS onto that brings the damage multiplier to either 1.49x or 1.42x, but if the bat isn't perfectly fresh either of those could reach 1.5x. 1.5x just looks nicer than 1.49x, although if the players attack 2.5 times a second it would be closer to 1.4x which is still like half of Wolfgang's buff and more than Wigfrid's buff despite being obtained for nothing in addition to a lot of other things on a character with no downsides.

Is still limited to night and it shows best results for people who can use those mechanics. Recently I had to explain to other Wendy player that she will be muuuch better if she will start using miner hat instead of lantern or torch. Knowing that is like knowing how to grow good crops. Also that buff works for other characters, like everyone. I'm not arguing, that Wendy is op or not, just not in every hands... Still a lot depends on players experience and their knowledge of mechanics.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Notecja said:

+It makes a bit harder to farm nightmare fuel. At least not in the most direct way.

monkey trains

28 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Character downsides: ALL Character Downsides for all the characters that have been reworked are seemingly vanishing into obscurity all together- or becoming significantly less difficult to manage.

walter and wortox say hi

and even if it was true it doesnt mean that is a good thing. What makes character interesting is to have downsides

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Notecja said:

I'm not arguing, that Wendy is op or not, just not in every hands... Still a lot depends on players experience and their knowledge of mechanics.

To be fair this applies to basically everyone and is likely the reason kiel is so hesitant to nerf characters not that I'm for nerfs.

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, Well-met said:

not only sanity is a entirely controllable factor but it so turns out wendy also has her own sanity machine to make it even easier to manage.

worst case scenario, it is merely a few more hits for completely avoidable mobs.

What exactly is your point? We literally triggered a wide scale Biome Warzone with the latest Return of Them Update. I’m pretty certain that if TerrorClaw is any indication: Future new Shadow monsters are coming.

In fact: after triggering a full on Shadow War I would 100% expect nothing LESS then some new shadow monsters to show up.. 

(then maybe people will shut up about how OP they think Wendy is) 

[Well-met]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What exactly is your point? We literally triggered a wide scale Biome Warzone with the latest Return of Them Update. I’m pretty certain that if TerrorClaw is any indication: Future new Shadow monsters are coming.

In fact: after triggering a full on Shadow War I would 100% expect nothing LESS then some new shadow monsters to show up.. 

(then maybe people will shut up about how OP they think Wendy is) 

shadows that can be intercepted by other mobs and players makes the downside even less tangible.

as it is right now we have no reason to interfere with the greater gestalt's business

either way, one specific event does not justify a character downside

you taunt people and you are on the defensive yet you cannot bring anything to the discussion. every single of your thoughts is countered by facts

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What exactly is your point? We literally triggered a wide scale Biome Warzone with the latest Return of Them Update. I’m pretty certain that if TerrorClaw is any indication: Future new Shadow monsters are coming.

In fact: after triggering a full on Shadow War I would 100% expect nothing LESS then some new shadow monsters to show up.. 

(then maybe people will shut up about how OP they think Wendy is) 

It's unknown if we're even getting new shadows but even if we do if the current content has been any indication they'll be isolated to the content zone and not impact the main island. Being less useful in one area is a poor excuse to call a character not powerful as well.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What exactly is your point? We literally triggered a wide scale Biome Warzone with the latest Return of Them Update. I’m pretty certain that if TerrorClaw is any indication: Future new Shadow monsters are coming.

In fact: after triggering a full on Shadow War I would 100% expect nothing LESS then some new shadow monsters to show up.. 

(then maybe people will shut up about how OP they think Wendy is) 

shadows that are killed by gestals, wow such downside

maybe you should come with facts instead of asking people to shut up. i should just ignore your post seeing your behavior

[Mike23Ua]

You really can’t state anything as “Fact” because no one outside of Klei has any clue what plans they have for the game- You have absolutely no idea if they don’t plan to make the ENTIRE GAME easier and less difficult and thus more inviting to newcomers of the franchise:

(that’s actually been happening a lot lately with lessened resource costs of Marble Armor, Rabbit Earmuffs, Bat-Bat etc..)

while at the same time they’re working on some new “Hardcore Mode” That completely mixes up EVERYTHING you THINK you know about their game.

I guarantee you that a simple change like making all characters unable to heal by any other means besides dedicated healing tab items would put some players in more danger.

You can’t state anything as “Fact” because you do not yet know the size or scope of the full Return of Them content update chain: Prior to Return of Them: did you ever Expect DST to have a Sailable ocean, or Woodie to no longer have his curse tied to chopping Wood with Lucy, or Willow to get a Shadow wrecking companion, or for them to completely overhaul the farm plots?

no.. and you can’t lie and say you did either- I’ve said it once before I’ll say it again, I will reserve my final judgements until RoT is fully completed before I start crying this or that is too powerful please Nerf.

For all we know- they could have plans to completely overhaul combat & cooking mechanics just as much as they overhauled Farms and Fishing.

So obviously no one except Klei themselves can declare anything as “Facts”

The only “fact” I see in this thread is you guys took it from the Ops original questions about Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, WX78 & Wortox & spun it to be somehow be all about how Wendy is too OP please Nerf. And mostly without my input either- that’s the most amazing part! 
 

With 7 character reworks still to come.... I’ll wait and reserve my judgement on how much nerfing I feel Wendy needs or not until then.

[Well-met]

of course we can establish facts with the existing game and content. what's this nonsense about canceling facts? that sounds ridiculous.

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

while at the same time they’re working on some new “Hardcore Mode” That completely mixes up EVERYTHING you THINK you know about their game.

what is this?

[1bubbainpa]

33 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You really can’t state anything as “Fact” because no one outside of Klei has any clue what plans they have for the game- You have absolutely no idea if they don’t plan to make the ENTIRE GAME easier and less difficult and thus more inviting to newcomers of the franchise:

(that’s actually been happening a lot lately with lessened resource costs of Marble Armor, Rabbit Earmuffs, Bat-Bat etc..)

while at the same time they’re working on some new “Hardcore Mode” That completely mixes up EVERYTHING you THINK you know about their game.

I guarantee you that a simple change like making all characters unable to heal by any other means besides dedicated healing tab items would put some players in more danger.

You can’t state anything as “Fact” because you do not yet know the size or scope of the full Return of Them content update chain: Prior to Return of Them: did you ever Expect DST to have a Sailable ocean, or Woodie to no longer have his curse tied to chopping Wood with Lucy, or Willow to get a Shadow wrecking companion, or for them to completely overhaul the farm plots?

no.. and you can’t lie and say you did either- I’ve said it once before I’ll say it again, I will reserve my final judgements until RoT is fully completed before I start crying this or that is too powerful please Nerf.

For all we know- they could have plans to completely overhaul combat & cooking mechanics just as much as they overhauled Farms and Fishing.

So obviously no one except Klei themselves can declare anything as “Facts”

The only “fact” I see in this thread is you guys took it from the Ops original questions about Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, WX78 & Wortox & spun it to be somehow be all about how Wendy is too OP please Nerf. And mostly without my input either- that’s the most amazing part! 
 

With 7 character reworks still to come.... I’ll wait and reserve my judgement on how much nerfing I feel Wendy needs or not until then.

You cannot account for things that don’t exist or that are not currently in the game for an argument that applies to the present game state.

EDIT: Also saying that wormwood is easier because he can heal with rot is incorrect. If you have that much rot left around, you would make compost wrap, feed it to a compactor, or use it for other recipes.

[viberr]

hey guys im pretty sure this thread is about the holy Trinity (and wortox)

you guys(and gals) completely went on to start discussing wendy and abigail who wasn't even on the list 

but hey doesn't seem like anyone cares so ill give my opinion

klei hasn't nerfed anyone that much besides wicker bottom but that was because of RWYS so the chance they will even nerf wolfgang or wx or wendy is quite slim 

and hey if people like playing the characters then good for them, if you don't like the characters either because they're too boring or too OP then just don't play em, simple as that

and also if you're on pc(insert mike23ua joke here) then you can just download a mod that nerfs or buffs the characters you dislike. like how POG is that?the internet really is something ain't it?

(also has anyone thought about canceling mike?)

[CremeLover]

49 minutes ago, Well-met said:

cold, hunger, healing and no veggie are real downsides wheter you downplay them or not.

what is wendy's downside exactly?

Wendy's downside is being left alone without Abigail, and if she's dead, she probably died to a boss, and re summoning her again are 3 seconds you could spend attacking, because some bosses can oneshot her and is not really worth the time. You'll have to do with your x0.75 multiplier for this boss fight.

Is a negligible downside that, for better or worse follows the trend of reworks that has been taking place since willow, where downsides are also negligible or nonexistent. That and mobs Abigail can't target, which can be easily soloed without much trouble. Still a bigger downside that Woodie.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

so we should shut up because wendy isnt op for some new game mode that is only in your mind

we talk about what we have know not what it might have 

[Well-met]

5 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

Wendy's downside is being left alone without Abigail, and if she's dead, she probably died to a boss, and re summoning her again are 3 seconds you could spend attacking, because some bosses can oneshot her and is not really worth the time. You'll have to do with your x0.75 multiplier for this boss fight.

so wendy's main downside is a few second animation?

ok

7 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

Is a negligible downside that, for better or worse follows the trend of reworks that has been taking place since willow, where downsides are also negligible or nonexistent. That and mobs Abigail can't target, which can be easily soloed without much trouble. Still a bigger downside that Woodie.

I would say only Winona has no real downside, but that's somewhat fine since nobody likes playing her.

All the other reworks so far have appropriate downsides bar wendy.

[viberr]

3 minutes ago, Well-met said:

All the other reworks so far have appropriate downsides bar wendy.

wigfrid didn't get any downsides

[Mysterious box]

17 minutes ago, viberr said:

hey guys im pretty sure this thread is about the holy Trinity (and wortox)

you guys(and gals) completely went on to start discussing wendy and abigail who wasn't even on the list 

but hey doesn't seem like anyone cares so ill give my opinion

klei hasn't nerfed anyone that much besides wicker bottom but that was because of RWYS so the chance they will even nerf wolfgang or wx or wendy is quite slim 

and hey if people like playing the characters then good for them, if you don't like the characters either because they're too boring or too OP then just don't play em, simple as that

and also if you're on pc(insert mike23ua joke here) then you can just download a mod that nerfs or buffs the characters you dislike. like how POG is that?the internet really is something ain't it?

(also has anyone thought about canceling mike?)

I apologize as the rogue who brought Wendy in this.

[CremeLover]

9 minutes ago, viberr said:

hey guys im pretty sure this thread is was about the holy Trinity (and wortox)

I regretfully inform you this thread has been taken by the Wendy love/hate gang, only Wendy haters/fanatics may post from now on.

13 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

Why use 3 seconds to summon her again just to get oneshotted?

4 minutes ago, Well-met said:

so wendy's main downside is a few second animation?

ok

ok

[Well-met]

10 minutes ago, viberr said:

wigfrid didn't get any downsides

she didn't need any new downside since the one in place is already very effective

 

[viberr]

37 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

-mike's long snip(or whatever they're called)-

mike i understand you don't use the wiki but you got to understand that eating green caps raw does not help you

[Mike23Ua]

Well in an effort to get this thread back on topic..

Wickerbottom: make her OP books require more work and rarer ingredients, Slurtle Slim, MoleBat noses, Seaweed Barnacle, if it’s OP let it be OP but make it worthwhile and feel rewarding.

WX78: Remove ability to get more powerful from eating all gears, instead use Hamlet gameplay features of needing to find (and find a way to charge..) dormant/dead robot parts/upgrades.

Wortox: Give him a naughtiness meter and if he isn’t full-filling naughtiness then his souls become less effective.

Wolfgang: make becoming mighty require mighty actions such as lifting his signature Dumbell, carrying around statue parts/ ant lion boulders, in addition to just eating food and becoming mighty.. he needs to keep his muscles in shape, also throw in something that compliments his quote “Myriad of Phobias” in some way.. and call it a day.

These are just the simplest most straightforward ways (in my opinion) of nerfing them: I’m not even considering the BUFFS and New Gameplay Content they will all obviously get that goes alongside these Nerfs.