Souper Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I play a lot of DST, and I would say a majority of the content comes from defeating bosses I would say bosses are an undercooked part of the game's content in need of some new life. Defeating most bosses in my opinion is super fun and challenging for the most part. However, the rewards from most bosses are pretty much useless or lack luster. I mean, Deerclops, the easiest boss in the game, drops one of the most valuable items used for two important items that are very helpful and unique. Toadstool, one of the hardest and most strenuous bosses in the game, drops extremely poor items that just aren't worth the time & effort of the fight. The mushlights are okay. Crab King drops pretty much nothing worthwhile (yet). Dragonfly drops some gems and of course the scaled furnace blueprint, but I still don't find it that rewarding tbh. I could be wrong there though. It just seems very underwhelming when you take on these raid bosses and only get a measly amount of gems and a blueprint. It just seems very unbalanced. A boss like the Bee Queen who drops some of the strongest loot in the game, and then a boss like Toadstool who drops mostly useless stuff and a semi-permanent light source. My point is that most boss drops have incredibly niche purposes that have no real use for most players, thereby lacking incentive to even fight them. Especially the hard ones. (Save for Fuelweaver) Hell, Bearger might as well not even be fought, because he's better at farming trees than he is for his drops. I just wish there real incentive for fighting these bosses other than the inherent challenge they bring. Kinda a rant, but I love DST. I wish Klei would do something to make the system more rewarding. Maybe I'm in the minority though and plenty of other players actually do feel rewarded. Edit: I would like to retract my initial claim that Dragonfly drops aren't rewarding. They are definitely worth the fight and rewarding for sure. However I still feel underwhelmed by them, personally. This is most likely my personal bias coming through though, as I am a big fan of games that give you game changing things for defeating bosses (metroidvanias basically) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruhmoment23 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Bosses are already rewarding in their own way, i don't know what kind of loot you'd expect from a seasonal boss. Fuelweaver has ultimately the best loot pool because he's a "literal" end-game boss and the hardest to deal with out of the entire stock. Raid bosses like Df, Klaus, Bq are fine to me. I can agree Toadstool being the most underwhelming out of the bunch since the only thing worth getting from him are the mushlights/lamps and misery's spore sack blueprint to farm shroom skin. Dragonfly is also fine, it's a raidboss, furnace itself is rewarding enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-met Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I agree, but dragonfly gives access to a decent armor. In my opinion all bosses should drop a component for combat gear, and most of them do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just for the green and orange gems df is worth without taking in count all the useful recipes for the scales Toad loot isnt that bad, you can light your base for many days (20 lightbulbs, 40? Glowberries, 60? Spores or infinity with festive lights) + the hats that arent bad, great if you play as warly and good for other hungry characters. Maybe they can include an extra reward but i dont see it neccessary. The fight is unique, not so difficult (you only really need to calc the resources to beat him) and the loot is balanced arround it. Maybe he is victim of comparing his loot with the op loot from beequeen and fuel weaver since those are game changing CK loot table isnt complete, we cant discard that, in a future, will drop something else related to his altar, maybe a new material but for a toad level boss it should drop something else. The steident trident is usefull but i dont think is worth for that fight and less when you can get it via klaus The only boss that i would add other loot is antlion since is only used with multiple players. For a solo player he only has decorations (lazy desserter as decoration, the useless dessert rocks and the crystal statues) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeilerderWelten Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Lets take a look at all the bosses. Ancient Guardian: 7/10 - his horn has only 1 use, another craftable item for the horn would be interesting, the ornate chest loot is very good though Antlion: 5/10 - Lazy Deserteur is amazing in multiplayer, but useless when you play alone Bearger: 5/10 - Hibearnation Vest is decent, Insulated Pack has only so much uses like a standard backpack and can't cool down ice, thermal stones Bee Queen: 10/10 - Royal Jelly, Crown and Bundling Wraps, best loot pool in the entire game Crab King: 3/10 - Strident Trident is decent and Celestial Tribute isn't fully implemented yet, I would prefer an armor/crown that you can socket gems in for diffrent effects or a boss tier boat, made of Rockjaw, Moon Glas and Crabking loot, the fight is very tedious Deerclops: 10/10 - he is easy and the Eyebrella is one of the best items in the game, Houndius is also good Dragonfly: 8/10 - the gems and the furnace are great, the Scailmai would be way better if it wouldn't burn down everything if you get hit Klaus: 9/10 - Klaus is especially in your first 1-2 years useful, when you havn't killed the other bosses yet, Klaus can drop complete sh*t, 1 down feather, 1 desert stone, steel wool, but he can also drop amazing things, it would be good if he would drop the Krampus Sack with a 100% chance, when you actually manage to kill the way stronger enraged Klaus after killing 1 or 2 deers Lord of the Fruit Flies: 5/10 - a very easy "Boss" the Friendly Fruit Fly is useful, but would be way better if it would tend to the crops, when you are not in the base Malbatross: 4/10 - the sail is great, the row isn't, the watering can would be better if it could water 4 tales at the same time, like in Harvest Moon or Stardew Valley, it would be interesting too, if you could craft a harpoon out of the malbatross beak or a cape item out of the feathers (you could "glide" over small bodies of water, like Wortox can teleport over them) Moose/Goose: 6/10 - Wheather Pains are strong, Luxury Fan would be better with a bigger range, I almost have to stand in the fire to put it out right now Shadow Pieces: 8/10 - you can farm alot of nightmare fuel, dark swords and night armors from them, 1 rook, 1 bishop, 20 knights set up, they also drop the atrium Spider Queen: 4/10 - she is easy, her spider hat is decent but useless for Webber, I would like another craft from her, her legs look like scythe blades, crafting a scythe out of them to collect twigs, gras, reeds with greater speed would be amazing Toadstool: 3/10 - he is very tough and his loot is not very good, the Mushlights are not infinite and the light radius is not very big, the hats are fashionable, but at the point you are actually manage to kill this boss, lower hunger drain isn't the best perk, you have most likely more food than you could ever eat, Toadstool needs another good drop Treeguard: 8/10 - easy "boss" and you need a ton of living logs, Treeguards are great Ancient Fuelweaver: 10/10 - that is the de facto endboss, he is strong and all of his drops are amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I really agree on Bearger. Hibearnation vest sounds really nice in theory and it even looks cool but i cant say i ever use it. Maybe that would change if it got some inventory slots idk. An obvious additional recipe could be some kind special fur turf but thats all i can think of or maybe a higher quality repairable structure for sleeping.. Bundling Wraps also sort of diminished the value of whatever utility/worth Insulated Pack even had. Deerclops im also sort of iffy about. When you play solo those eyeballs pile up very quickly if ur not resetting the ruins all the time for Houndius. I think when the DST equivalent of Dripple Pipes comes it should use a drop from M/Goose, either just the feathers or a new drop (unless its gonna be tied to a completely new mob or something) --- Dfly i think is fine and possibly one of the best loot wise. she gives access to Furnace, Scaled Chest, Scalemail and Scaled Flooring. She also makes ancient gems renewable in a way thats easier than fighting Fuelweaver. Dfly and Klaus are two bosses i always try to kill as soon as they respawn. Though i still believe Scaled Furnace should be able to cook food in bulk. Just like with this mod 'Lazy Furnace' it just makes sense and i was extremely surprised to find out it doesnt when it got introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornete Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I think most bosses loot are fine. I dont want to see even more focus on raid bosses from Klei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 45 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said: the row isn't Why? Is pretty quick and has good durability. When it reach low % you can make the can that, imo, is good since you will not need to go to ponds often The sails are a must Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeilerderWelten Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: Why? Is pretty quick and has good durability. When it reach low % you can make the can that, imo, is good since you will not need to go to ponds often The sails are a must Yes thats true, I just find it uncompelling using a boss item of such a hard to find creture for a row. But yes if you use it for that until the durability is low and than craft something out of it, thats pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said: Yes thats true, I just find it uncompelling using a boss item of such a hard to find creture for a row. But yes if you use it for that until the durability is low and than craft something out of it, thats pretty good. Yes but isnt like is the only row we have, just the best one. Is confortable since it will take so long to waste it so no need of materials to make more and, unless he has gems that accelerates it, is easy to evade CK geisers by rowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuroite Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 37 minutes ago, HeilerderWelten said: Spider Queen: 4/10 Toadstool: 3/10 10 hours ago, Souper said: Toadstool, one of the hardest and most strenuous bosses in the game, drops extremely poor items that just aren't worth the time & effort of the fight. Everytime someone say that (M)Toad isnt worth, a part inside of me cry ... The ressources, time you save and help you gain with a long durability stationnary light source in your base is definitly worth for me and i always try to fight it the earliest possible. LEAVE TOADSTOOL ALONE PLEASE !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0rutyna0 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Varg: 0/10 - He doesn't even drop a varg fur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, 0rutyna0 said: Varg: 0/10 - He doesn't even drop a varg fur. He could drop his head to feel like a berserker and tame hounds kinda like how spiderqueen head control spiders Nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikapikap Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seero Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: Why? Is pretty quick and has good durability. When it reach low % you can make the can that, imo, is good since you will not need to go to ponds often These items are garbage for such a hard to find, hard to reach boss and you know it It's not worth going out of your way to kill malbatross, it's just not. Kill dragonfly instead, easier to find, and a pretty smooth kill if you know what you're doing don't get me started on toadstool or crabking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Seero said: These items are garbage for such a hard to find, hard to reach boss and you know it Dont use them then, i dont think they are hard to find. 10% fishing easy to catch fishes lol or 25% when you reach to a shoal (there is many) You dont need them but if you want to spend the time you will be rewarded with a better boat and farm equipement. They are garbage when the sails make the boat to damn fast (people crying about boats being slow) Same for the others (srly idk why people are so trigger by toads loot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornete Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, Seero said: It's not worth going out of your way to kill malbatross, it's just not. Does it have to be? I dont think Klei ever intended for people to kill Malbatross specifically for her beak. I think it's just a nice extra drop the player gets while the main loot is her masts. It's pretty useful for getting your boat back to land or safety since your masts will probably be destroyed. Not every boss drop has to be, and should be some amazing powerful item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 12 hours ago, Souper said: I play a lot of DST, and I would say a majority of the content comes from defeating bosses. Why? There's only a few of them and the combat in this game isn't exactly fleshed out. 12 hours ago, Souper said: Deerclops, the easiest boss in the game, drops one of the most valuable items used for two important items that are very helpful and unique. Toadstool, one of the hardest and most strenuous bosses in the game, drops extremely poor items that just aren't worth the time & effort of the fight. That's the point. Deerclops, the first hurdle new players face that comes to you, drops something that will help new players in the upcoming seasons. Toadstool, the thing you go out of your way to fight that most players won't fight because he takes too long so you mostly just fight him for fun, mostly just drops things for fun. If you really think the "majority of the content" comes from fighting bosses why do you care that the trophy boss only drops trophies? 12 hours ago, Souper said: Dragonfly drops some gems and of course the scaled furnace blueprint, but I still don't find it that rewarding tbh. You don't think an infinite light and infinite heat source that you can just drop a dozen thermal stones next to so you don't have to sit around waiting for them to heat up is very rewarding? I would prefer a Scaled Furnace over an Eyebrella 9 times out of 10, although admittedly that's mostly because I do silly things that disproportionately values the Scaled Furnace. 12 hours ago, Souper said: Hell, Bearger might as well not even be fought, because he's better at farming trees than he is for his drops. Bearger's drops are some of the strongest in the entire game, especially for Wolfgang. 12 hours ago, Souper said: My point is that most boss drops have incredibly niche purposes that have no real use for most players, thereby lacking incentive to even fight them. I just wish there real incentive for fighting these bosses other than the inherent challenge they bring. I really don't get this. Do you get a reward for completing Mario stages? Do you get a reward for clearing lines in Tetris? Do you get a reward for playing first person shooters? You don't, but the games are fun. If you really think this game is just boss fights why do you care that the boss fights don't give you super amazing loot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seero Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hornete said: Does it have to be? I dont think Klei ever intended for people to kill Malbatross specifically for her beak. I think it's just a nice extra drop the player gets while the main loot is her masts. Yes actually, it does. Her masts aren't worth killing her for either. 9 minutes ago, Hornete said: Not every boss drop has to be, and should be some amazing powerful item. In comparison the scaled furnace is a perfect drop because it has a practical use, it's a permanent heat source. Simple, sweet and effective. The beak and general uselessness of sea-content don't fit these requirements. Why do bosses need to have good items? Because the only reason why you'd kill a boss with useless items is for the sake of killing it, like in a boss rush or you are in a late game world and have a specific use for it (and even then, it may purely be decorative) That's it, there is NO reason to kill malbatross or explore ocean content unless you're trying to excuse klei and say "but it's fun" But if malbatross had good drops, it would be "fun" and meaningful. It would make a lot of players happy. Remember, this is a video game. If you want to kill a boss for fun, you can try not cheesing ancient guardian, killing deerclops both bosses with similar difficulty There is no reason for her not to have good drops. Absolutely 0 reason. You make both sides of the argument happy. Not everyone finds DST fun for the same reasons you do, and not everyone invests time in ocean content. On 1/3/2021 at 6:33 PM, Seero said: content that affects the early and mid game heavily, alternative options from a normal run would be 1000x times more fun, keeps the game fresh and keeps our faith in klei This is why ocean content needs to be more viable, it needs tweaks, it needs to be buffed etc personally all of my runs remain unchanged except for getting stone fruit and even then I'm spending way to much time on gathering bushes but I just like them so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0l0l0 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I think the focus of boss loot on items that can be used and crafted multiple times is a good way to ensure the loot doesn't get made useless after the first kill, but presents the potential problem of having to farm bosses/use green gems to get sufficient amount of them. I think Dragonfly has good boss loot as she gives both one off items (furnace) and consumable items (gems), same with Beequeen. One of both categories generally makes for good loot. So, I think Toadstool could do with something that can last forever, and you only need one of, (with his other loot being useful for a reason to farm him). I'd personally go for a farm plot or something that allows living logs to grow. On a personal note, Toadstool has far too much health for a satisfying fight (more health =/= harder!!), but I want to give credit to him as the mushhats really compliment the lamps with the spores when used together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seero Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, W0l0l0 said: I think the focus of boss loot on items that can be used and crafted multiple times is a good way to ensure the loot doesn't get made useless after the first kill, but presents the potential problem of having to farm bosses/use green gems to get sufficient amount of them. I think Dragonfly has good boss loot as she gives both one off items (furnace) and consumable items (gems), same with Beequeen. One of both categories generally makes for good loot. bee queen should drop more honeycombs, they are way too unrenewable right now and a world without a killer be biome is a pretty big blow to your.. world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornete Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Seero said: snip Of course bosses should have atleast one main drop that's worth to get. But I dont think all of a bosses items should be amazing. I personally think the masts from Malbatross are the main drop and that's the main reason I'll defeat her, but the beak is a nice extra drop I get from her, not the main thing but it's a nice side dish. I dont think we'll get anywhere as your main problem seems to be with ocean content in general, rather than a bosses drops, so I'll stop here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seero Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Hornete said: Of course bosses should have atleast one main drop that's worth to get. But I dont think all of a bosses items should be amazing. amazing worth it, cool, Bosses need to have rewards worth killing them for 1 minute ago, Hornete said: I personally think the masts from Malbatross are the main drop and that's the main reason I'll defeat her, but the beak is a nice extra drop I get from her, not the main thing but it's a nice side dish. 1 minute ago, Hornete said: I dont think we'll get anywhere as your main problem seems to be with ocean content in general, rather than a bosses drops, so I'll stop here But my point surrounds ocean content, her drops are bad because ocean content is bad. A faster sail would be nice, if malbatross wasn't so hard to find, and ocean content isn't worth investing time unless you have a super late world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 39 minutes ago, Hornete said: Does it have to be? I dont think Klei ever intended for people to kill Malbatross specifically for her beak. I think it's just a nice extra drop the player gets while the main loot is her masts. It's pretty useful for getting your boat back to land or safety since your masts will probably be destroyed. Not every boss drop has to be, and should be some amazing powerful item. i love to use them to farm salt easily too i dont think that is a bad extra loot, also is funny and creative to use a peak as row xD 21 minutes ago, Seero said: amazing worth it, cool, Bosses need to have rewards worth killing them for But my point surrounds ocean content, her drops are bad because ocean content is bad. A faster sail would be nice, if malbatross wasn't so hard to find, and ocean content isn't worth investing time unless you have a super late world did you know that the ocean content isnt finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 One change that would be nice for group play would be a world wide unlock of the boss recipes on kill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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