Amazing DLC, but Solar Panels are OP

[Eddie Fox]

Loving the new starting Biome & DLC - it introduces lots of new challenges and looking forward to see how this is fleshed out with bigger rockets and more cross-planetoid delivery.

However, it is too easy to build solar panels given that the meteor threat does not exist on the starting asteroid.

I think they should require other materials for construction; like maybe Silicon or Steel, in addition to glass, so that the numbers that can be built is limited, at least in the early game.

What do ya'll think?

[pether]

What if building those required dupe to have some specific high tier skill? Like the auto sweepers, you must train your dupes to make them

[Steve8]

Requiring steel would make a lot of sense. I never really liked that they only need glass. But that's only a temporary hurdle. It doesn't solve the issue at all

They might bring back some form of space hazard. Another way to balance them would be to lower the solar radiation on the starting asteroid and have meteors on asteroids where panels are viable

[Primalflower]

I would simply like for them to produce heat. 

[solo6490]

Glass and plastic would make sense to me.  It would require you to go to the 2nd planet before you could obtain it.

[Sasza22]

17 hours ago, Lbphero said:

I would simply like for them to produce heat. 

This would be a good idea to balance it. A cooling system requirement would make them require a bit more setup than just build and forget.

[Artorias36]

I doubt meteor won't come back in the early access. It seems to me they were removed for testing purposes.

[dogyzarc]

I agree that's really easy to build early solar as power source, but solar need more bateries, it's harder to get coal, you can't use hot regolith with steam engines, and don't have small metal input from space. I don't really know if it's a buff.

[DarkMaster13]

2 hours ago, dogyzarc said:

I agree that's really easy to build early solar as power source, but solar need more bateries, it's harder to get coal, you can't use hot regolith with steam engines, and don't have small metal input from space. I don't really know if it's a buff.

Well the alternative is plug slugs, which need way more batteries to use.  A full ranch will fill 15-20 big batteries in a single night.

[Lupbert]

22 hours ago, Lbphero said:

I would simply like for them to produce heat. 

I like this suggestion, but I think they should have a working temperature range like steam turbines.  Maybe they only work between 10C-30C, like plants.

This encourages you to have a cooling system, but doesn’t allow you to use them for the production of crazy amounts of heat, and doesn’t let you just sit them directly on top of the frozen rock on the planet’s surface.

 

 

12 hours ago, solo6490 said:

Glass and plastic would make sense to me.  It would require you to go to the 2nd planet before you could obtain it.

I think glass and plastic is a good idea, but I also think that the prebuilt windows should deconstruct to obsidian instead of glass.  That way you need a real glass forge.

[Steve8]

Resource requirements would just delay the solar craze though. People would still cover the starting asteroid in panels eventually. Instead of looking to more complicated, but interesting solutions like shipping ethanol back from the second asteroid and burning that

[DarkMaster13]

3 hours ago, Steve8 said:

Resource requirements would just delay the solar craze though. People would still cover the starting asteroid in panels eventually. Instead of looking to more complicated, but interesting solutions like shipping ethanol back from the second asteroid and burning that

My current plan is to do that, but not for power.  I need the CO2 for rockets.

[SkunkMaster]

I honestly don't see how solar is so op. Yes both starter asteroids have glass and yes that allows you to setup a full solar roof on both those planets, without ever having made any glass.

THAT SAID, main planet solar roof is 22 solar panels, 20/21 if you want space for rockets. With 20 solar panels that gives you a maximum of 7600w. at average that's most likely around 4-5kw / cycle.

 

On the other hand, the planet you start on has no oil, so you have to get it. It has no dreckos, hatches, pips or anything else, so you also have to get that. and all the other shortcomings there are. 

It seems to me many are focusing on only the advantages of the swamp start, without considering the short comings. No metal volcanos, no easy access to reed or oil or even sustainable food (other then that you can make with water).

I for one like the current state. No meteors and solar roof atleast means i have a decent power source for the early game and i can focus on other things, like getting a hold of all those things i don't have, like reeds or oil or....

So yes, the solar roof start is strong, but it also comes at a price.

[Milliways]

Solar panels should be:

1. Fixed so you can't do the overlapping pattern.

2. Nerfed to like 100 watts or something in the DLC (unless they make space hostile again).

IMO

[ExEvolution]

I think a lot of design decisions made for this alpha were strictly to allow for rapid testing. Don't force them to make intricate systems for content that already exists and instead let them rapidly tech up, and try strictly the new stuff.

Things like being forced to start in a swamp which features all new foods and creatures, provides easy access to oxygen because of all the polluted dirt and mud, amplified by the new sublimination station, very small allowing easy access to the surface. No meteor showers means you don't need to farm tons of steel. This is all balance for the sake of testing I think.

[goboking]

11 minutes ago, ExEvolution said:

I think a lot of design decisions made for this alpha were strictly to allow for rapid testing. Don't force them to make intricate systems for content that already exists and instead let them rapidly tech up, and try strictly the new stuff.

Things like being forced to start in a swamp which features all new foods and creatures, provides easy access to oxygen because of all the polluted dirt and mud, amplified by the new sublimination station, very small allowing easy access to the surface. No meteor showers means you don't need to farm tons of steel. This is all balance for the sake of testing I think.

They've been pretty explicit in their desire for rocketry to be accessible earlier in the game, which means meteors have to go away on at least the starting asteroid.  Otherwise rocketry is still going to be gated behind steel production for bunkers.

[ExEvolution]

Rocketry is available early, yes, and that is good. It changes the dynamic of the game. But what you don't really have on the first planet is sustainable power other than solar. No hatches for coal, no "free energy" geysers, and plug slugs are very metal hungry for metal ore, not refined metal. If you are not careful they will eat through your entire metal supply. I will agree that solar could cost more materials (maybe 800-1200 steel per panel in addition to its glass cost or maybe double glass cost) to make them harder to build in the full release. But as far as alpha testing goes, I think making them easy to build is more effective for testing. It can be rebalanced closer to full release.

[babba]

@ExEvolution I love your profile picture...ONi forum poster profile images are often great, I love the community

5 more days and its the 8th, the holy ONi celebration day !

[ZombieDupe]

I don't agree that they are as powerful as they are made out to be. One of them doesn't generate even 400 wats at peak luminosity and you can only have so many of them on one asteroid before they fill the surface area. Plus you need space for rockets as well. I do think them not giving off any heat and only requiring glass, which is quite easy to obtain, is too small of a requirement. But if panels let off heat and require other materials to build, their watt output should also be higher. Perfectly fine if they require refined metal and plastic as well as the glass to build, while giving off a little bit of heat, which would make most sense.

[Wickedsnowball]

I'm going to point at the elephant in the room and say, if you think the glass tiles make it too easy....leave them alone and make your own glass, if you find solar too easy...don't use it. If you want a harder experience make them wasteful little jerks, or use the coal on the map and make a very power minimal base....just because it's there doesn't mean you need to use it.

I wouldn't be opposed to it needing more material but would more mid game material such as plastic and steel really be the answer? Glass is already a mid game material, plastic would force space travel first to get dreckos/oil or to be a massive power draw on a limited system while pumping heat somewhere for steel. I dislike the idea of plastic being needed, steel I would be fine with i guess, refined metal would be the best in my opinion. Heat would be ok if it transfers with gas/liquid running through the tiles along the bottom of it to allow for cooling, if they made it so it had to be in atmosphere i would go back to not using them ever.

[ExEvolution]

9 hours ago, babba said:

@ExEvolution I love your profile picture...ONi forum poster profile images are often great, I love the community

5 more days and its the 8th, the holy ONi celebration day !

Thanks, I commissioned it from someone on twitter.

[Lupbert]

5 hours ago, Wickedsnowball said:

Glass is already a mid game material

That's what I see as the biggest problem.  Glass is a very early game material.  You can get it before you get (refined) metal.  Glass is no longer gated by the glass forge.

[kezat]

Solar I does seem over powered as is. Though I feel it needs more then just a cost increase or output reduction to balance. Even if the cost was 10 times and we did not have the free glass at the start it would still be a bit lacking from a gameplay perspective. You could make a really well automated Slug Plug ranch will all kinds of conveyors, logic automation, dup interaction and metal to feed them and all that fun stuff or..... just slap down a couple solar panels.

Some other mechanic would be more fun so some planning and infrastructure is needed rather then set and forget like it is now. Such as the produce heat idea like some suggested or make them require a consumable to function. Or a dupe action to clean the panels. 

[RonEmpire]

There is another discussion in the Feedback/Suggestion thread that is same as this thread.
 

I suggested that  Sand/Dust storm can be something that can require maintenance similar to cleaning outhouses that can give you sand.  

Sand buildup can decrease the power over time, and needs a dupe to clean it. Maybe later a technology can be researched to automate cleaning it.

Or sand build can just pile up via entombed building and require digging and thus a robo miner can be used.  Sand can be no damage unlike regolith.  

 

[beeric]

I disagree. The starting biome should be an easy introduction to the game. You should land and have the ability to quickly and easily get a starting base running and fully self-sustaining. I'm finding lack of so many important resources on the starting rock makes it difficult to get a base going that you can leave alone. Remember, this game should appeal to novices and masters alike. Leave the starting biome easy and allow the game to ramp up difficulty as you travel to more hostile asteroids.