Rushing The Ruins Is Selfish

[DoMaya]

Rushing the ruins in Don't Starve Together is selfish.

I may not be the first person to say this, there are probably already people who've made more concise arguments than mine, but that won't change how I feel.

Rushing the Ruins (solo) is selfish, and it always will be. This is a message mainly to people who play on public servers.

During the early game, it's understood by most experienced players that exploring and collecting should be one's first priority, (it IS possible to make a base TOO early)

Trees are chopped, rocks are mined, graves are dug. The usual collecting.

Except, all the pig houses have been smashed, and the pig skins are the only thing missing? Wait, wasn't there a fairy ring with blue mushrooms here?
Oh that's fine, we can still make a base, even though we can't have any football helmets.

Oh boy, day 10. You know, I haven't seen that wolfgang/wigfrid all game, I bet they have their own base, that's cool.

Day 15, we have our base set up, the newer players have made stacks of wet goop, the usual. But I'll keep my base marked so fresh players can come.

Day 22, winter is here now and I saw the Wolfgang for the first time. He used a star caller's staff and has a thulecite club and crown. He doesn't say anything and he never leaves the base. I guess he rushed ruins. I'm glad HE got to have fun while I built the base.

Day 30 Deerclops comes and he helps us kill it, he takes the eye and makes an eyebrella then logs off, with all the ruins loot, pig skins, boss loot, AND the food (he forgot he took all the healing food for the fight)

 

 

Even IF the loot is shared, even IF they help build the base, doing ruins by yourself (without even asking if someone else wants to join) is selfish.

What is the point of building a base if all the late game content can be done in the first 15 days?

How is it fair that if I WANT to do ruins that I need to RUSH them?

I shouldn't have to host my own server just to enjoy all the content, I like playing on pubs, I (liked) helping newer players out. But never getting a chance to do anything because some tryhard rushed a co-op activity by destroying/consuming finite materials just to imitate someone they saw on Youtube will always irritate me.

Rushing the Ruins is selfish. Stop being selfish.



PS. Survival Server Players who are votekicked/gone from the game over 10 in game days should drop all of their rare things, (Gems/staves/jewelry, Panflute, Cane, Living Logs) They can keep things like twigs rocks and other easily found things.

 

[Squirrel12]

I agree. 

In my own servers, I have a general rule that the destroying of pig houses for quick resources is considered griefing and I will kick players that do it.

Unfortunately, there's not much that can be done.

I have a similar issue with Lunar Islands. I'm someone who likes building decent boat bases before going out exploring. This takes time, and by the time I'm out sailing and I've reached the lunar islands, some Woody has already raided the place by transforming into a Goose on Day 3. 

 

[DoMaya]

It's one thing to smash pig houses to relocate them, if I find a pig house deep in the woods where no one would go I'll break it just to get the early wood, but the ones at PK/village should always be a no-go.
I've been meaning to get into boating more but I imagine that would be kind of a downer to see someone else had gone their first.

 

[Squirrel12]

17 minutes ago, DoMaya said:

I've been meaning to get into boating more but I imagine that would be kind of a downer to see someone else had gone their first.

I enjoy boating on public servers because it's one of the only real ways you can have your own private base. You don't have to worry about griefing or other players stealing your food.

Having a boat base means that you don't have to be reliant on the main base of the server. You can be independent and self-sufficient by fishing. Plus, the main base tends to fall into chaos once Winter hits, so it's nice to be away from that.

I always invite someone from the main base to come sail with me. Usually, it means teaching them how to fish. It's a nice bonding experience. Here's some picks:

 

 

 

[CaRat]

Ruins rushing is pretty "selfish" but not everyone ruins rushes like that.

Selfish is a pretty narrow term for the different types of people that ruins rush in different ways.

The way you mentioned should only be done on a world they made to ruins rush and not ruining someone else's server.

I usually tell people Imma rush something, but I would never bring them down for my short term gain. Even if I give thulecite stuff what's the point. Someone might just hold all 10 crowns. People still wont have reliable armor at all times. Hence why I ruins rush as wigfrid to not steal all pig skin

Wigfrid is the best ruins rush in a public server because she can make her own armor and weapons for very cheap and easy to find resources.

Bringing a friend or 2 will help her due to her health steal. Sure the wigfrid still might not be a decent human being, but wigfrid is in fact a better team player than Wolfgang even though "not" being better than wolfgang.

Also if you take the deerclops eye and just leave you need to rethink your life choices.

[Yuuko]

eh... idk... If its a pub server like a Klei Official I don't think you should plan on playing any longer than your current game instance... and honestly if you don't join in the first week of game time you might as well not join.  All resources will be stripped away, you'll fight for 2 flints, and it doesn't matter if anyone rushed the ruins or not.

Pub servers are where I go when I specifically don't want to get attached to the world, so I care a lot less about what anyone does there.  Burn down the base, idc.  I'll probably burn it down myself if I was the one who built it lol

[BeeClops]

Your issue has nothing to do with ruin rushes, it has to to with selfish/unconsiderate people. I mean, a guy leaves with a deerclops eyeball straight away, and the problem is he rushed the ruins?

I go to the ruins quite often in the first autumn. However, i don't touch pighouses in pigvillage/pk. I only hammer touchstones and houses in spider forests. Yes i will sometimes dig 20 blue mushrooms because night is so short then, don't think that's a big deal tbh. I never use all loot, i leave gems/thelu and ancient key in the repaired station chest, for the next guy who comes to the ruins. If i have extra yellows i ask if ppl want magi/star.

 

I'd go as far to say, that on average on a public server, if the ruins don't get explored in autumn they most likely won't ever be, cause the server restarts before reaching summer more often than not, and the average player won't go ruins at all, let alone in winter and spring.

[-Nick-]

At least its the opposite when you rush the ruins for gears as wx. Any wx who takes all the gears on the surface is the most selfish thing you can do.

[Viktor234]

Sometimes I wish that the naturally generated Pig Houses were either indestructable or didn't drop any Pig Skin at all, generally to stop players from getting Pig Skin like a real jerk while also making pigs slowly extinct.

[DoMaya]

40 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

Your issue has nothing to do with ruin rushes, it has to to with selfish/unconsiderate people. I mean, a guy leaves with a deerclops eyeball straight away, and the problem is he rushed the ruins?

I go to the ruins quite often in the first autumn. However, i don't touch pighouses in pigvillage/pk. I only hammer touchstones and houses in spider forests. Yes i will sometimes dig 20 blue mushrooms because night is so short then, don't think that's a big deal tbh. I never use all loot, i leave gems/thelu and ancient key in the repaired station chest, for the next guy who comes to the ruins. If i have extra yellows i ask if ppl want magi/star.

 

I'd go as far to say, that on average on a public server, if the ruins don't get explored in autumn they most likely won't ever be, cause the server restarts before reaching summer more often than not, and the average player won't go ruins at all, let alone in winter and spring.

My issue is that I want to do this fun thing, but I never get a chance to do it.
Even if they gave me all the loot, I still want the chance to get it for myself.

 

[BeeClops]

1 minute ago, DoMaya said:

My issue is that I want to do this fun thing, but I never get a chance to do it.
Even if they gave me all the loot, I still want the chance to get it for myself.

 

Then rush yourself. What if that's the whole reason those people do it, cause they want to and if they go later it s been done already often enough?

[MondayNight]

This is a debatable matter. But in general, as observation, vast majority of them pubs (vanilla Survival Dedicated Servers akin KLei official ones) don't last longer than 1st Autumn and a bit of 1st Winter. Usually such servers are the playground of newbies/noobs/casuals and of course griefers plus trolls. Bases (if any) are modest at best and can end up burned/hammered/looted quite often. Thus for advanced players best use of said pubs is rush-runs: be it Boss rushes, Ruins rushes or some specific-activity rushes (Moon run for Stone Fruit Bushes and/or Glass tools, Hermit Island run for quests, Deep Sea fishing and treasure hunting etc). Yes, is a selfish thing to do in the grand scheme of things (objective moral standpoint), yet again: such servers don't survive much and actually a tiny minority of players do Ruins runs. Your example is an extreme one of some non-efficient rusher: an efficient one can locate 1x Cave Touchstone (8 skins are more than enough) and Blue Mushtrees biome, prototype a log suit and make use of Labyrinth's chests armors as well if further needed. What you describe seems more an advanced troll, taking your food, healing and boss loot (taken down as a team - as such all fight participants should've dice-rolled for the loot).

On other hand doing the above on Endless Dedicated Servers is beyond selfish and borderline griefing.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, DoMaya said:

My issue is that I want to do this fun thing, but I never get a chance to do it.
Even if they gave me all the loot, I still want the chance to get it for myself.

I recommend rushing the ruins if you have never done it before.  Its not difficult.  You can pick WX to make it easier, or Wolfgang if you're familiar with his play style.  Really you could pick almost anyone if you're comfortable fighting shadow creatures.  Get about 10 pig skins, 40 grass, an alchemy engine and some meats, shovel up about 20-30 blue mushrooms and go for it.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i dont play in pubs but seems like a confusion between ruin rush and jerks destroying resources. You can perfectly do a ruins rush without destroying pig houses (keeping the forest houses anyways is a waste because them eventually will burn because of thunders and wildfires) or shoveling any mushroom. 

 

[Sweaper]

I only go ruins for a chance to get the lazy explorer or a club in public servers. Pretty cheap on resources and time.

[Viktor234]

8 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

keeping the forest houses anyways is a waste because them eventually will burn because of thunders and wildfires

Keeping anything on surface is a waste because anything eventually will burn because of thunders, wildfires, or red hounds.

But the truth actually is: Keeping anything anywhere is a waste because everything eventually will burn because of griefers or newcomers, especially since Fire can't spread, Lightnings can't hit, Wildfires can't appear, Red Hounds can't die if it's happening offscreen.

[glooomy]

Didn't get a chance to read everything so I don’t know if this has been said already but I’m very against destroying non-renewable resources and being wasteful which, majority of the time rushing anything causes you to do/be. It’s cringe worthy when people dig up mushrooms, destroy mushtrees, smash pig houses/pig head things for helmets, burn grass/saplings for warmth or light, kill the live mandrakes, dig graves, my list could go on. If you don’t really care about the world it’s fine, but if it’s a long term world- ugh. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Keeping anything on surface is a waste because anything eventually will burn because of thunders, wildfires, or red hounds.

But the truth actually is: Keeping anything anywhere is a waste because everything eventually will burn because of griefers or newcomers, especially since Fire can't spread, Lightnings can't hit, Wildfires can't appear, Red Hounds can't die if it's happening offscreen.

what i mean is that is a good idea to relocate pig houses in forest to a place with some safety (lighting rod, iceflingomatic, etc) there is no need to make an autofarm or destroying village but random houses are not a big loose because of how dense are the forest and how easy can spread fire if someone is walking arround

but ok

[Brago-sama]

Wait I thought mushtrees regrow just like the trees above as long as they're in the mushy biomes

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

Wait I thought mushtrees regrow just like the trees above as long as they're in the mushy biomes

i dont know if new mushtrees regrow but i can confirm that the chopped ones do if you dont shovel them (like regular mushrooms)

[Viktor234]

11 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i dont know if new mushtrees regrow but i can confirm that the chopped ones do if you dont shovel them (like regular mushrooms)

A chopped Mushtree behaves just like any other tree in the world: If you don't shovel the stump of a Mushtree, then the stump will do nothing but despawn in 15-45 days, leaving nothing behind.

 

@CameoAppearance and everyone else who still keeps reacting confused:

[ShadowDuelist]

5 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

Wait I thought mushtrees regrow just like the trees above as long as they're in the mushy biomes

They don't if harvested conpletely/burned.

Unlike the normal trees though, they will regrow during rains if you chop them and leave their stump intact.

As for the main topic, the problem is about inconsiderate people that follow solo youtube guides, where players usually destroy everything because their only point is to make it to the ruins as fast as possible.

I have raided the ruins during first autumn as well, and without touching a single pig house or damaging any non-renewable resource. Usually I don't have enough time to clear everything, only a tiny side while exploring them, so if the time comes when other players ask "should we go to clear the ruins" there's still enough loot and fight for a team ruins raid, and my experience works to guide them straight to the meaty points.

4 hours ago, Squirrel12 said:

I have a similar issue with Lunar Islands. I'm someone who likes building decent boat bases before going out exploring. This takes time, and by the time I'm out sailing and I've reached the lunar islands, some Woody has already raided the place by transforming into a Goose on Day 3

Absolutely disagree. Again, inconsidarte Woodies could be. I also do this often but mostly to bring 20 stone fruit trees for the general base. On public servers, much more often than not, having these trees is what prevents an 8 people base from starving during the first winter.

I'd say 9 out of 10 times on public servers nobody manages to start with boating before the first winter. I know there are players who are experts in boating at this point,  and all their gameplay revolves round it. But the vast majority of players don't use boats much, if at all.

Besides having picked just 20 trees from the island still leaves a lot of loot and things to do on the island for the boat players to clear. Boat players now also have the hermits treasure things, the fishing, and other stuff to do, so it's not like a decent woodie has ruined their experience.

TL; DR: Problem here are people that do not consider other peoples need for resources, they don't respect non renewability of resources, and also they don't take into consideration other people's fun.

In a multiplayer setting not all is about flexing, being nice to other players will make you more liked, than flexing about something. As a matter of fact when that silent WX uses status announcement on day 11 saying "I have the guardians horn" "I have 30 thulecite" I usually instntly frown and silently dislike the player, 'cause I know they probably did a huge mess for their gears, and whenever we need more gears we won't be able to get them.

All youtube ruins rush guides should have a disclaimer that the strategy is meant ONLY for your own solo personal worlds.

[Blue Moth]

just wait until wolfgang and wigfrid have killed the fuelweaver (which is kinda inevitable) and the ruins will reset and everything will be back the way it was so you can visit them yourself.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

18 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

A chopped Mushtree behaves just like any other tree in the world: If you don't shovel the stump of a Mushtree, then the stump will do nothing but despawn in 15-45 days, leaving nothing behind.

in my experience they regrow since i was choping the same green mushroom every summer in my cave base

 

edit: im wating the code that says im wrong

[Brubs]

I agree up to a certain point.

If there's a bunch of people playing at the same time (say +7) rushing the ruins can be beneficial because survivors can have access to really strong gear early game while others can focus on gathering resources and setting up a base.

But if there are only a few people playing (around 4) then it may not be useful at all, because odds are winter will arrive and the base will not be completely prepared for the first challenge (specially if there are not very experimented players in the party).