Rushing The Ruins Is Selfish

[Viktor234]

11 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

edit: im wating the code that says im wrong

mushtree.lua:

Spoiler

    local function makestump(inst)
        if inst:HasTag("stump") then
            return
        end

        if inst._changetask ~= nil then
            inst._changetask:Cancel()
            inst._changetask = nil
        end

        RemovePhysicsColliders(inst)
        inst:AddTag("stump")
        inst:RemoveTag("shelter")
        inst:RemoveComponent("propagator")
        inst:RemoveComponent("burnable")
        MakeSmallPropagator(inst)
        MakeSmallBurnable(inst)
        inst.components.burnable:SetOnBurntFn(stump_burnt)
        inst.components.growable:StopGrowing()
        StopSpores(inst)

        inst.components.workable:SetWorkAction(ACTIONS.DIG)
        inst.components.workable:SetOnWorkCallback(nil)
        inst.components.workable:SetOnFinishCallback(dig_up_stump)
        inst.components.workable:SetWorkLeft(1)
        inst.AnimState:PlayAnimation("idle_stump")

        inst.MiniMapEntity:SetIcon("mushroom_tree_stump.png")

        inst.Light:Enable(false)

        inst:StopWatchingWorldState("is"..data.season, onisinseason)
        inst:ListenForEvent("timerdone", ontimerdone)

        if not inst.components.timer:TimerExists("decay") then
            inst.components.timer:StartTimer("decay", GetRandomWithVariance(TUNING.MUSHTREE_REGROWTH.DEAD_DECAY_TIME, TUNING.MUSHTREE_REGROWTH.DEAD_DECAY_TIME * .5))
        end
    end

local function ontimerdone(inst, data)
    if data.name == "decay" then
        local x, y, z = inst.Transform:GetWorldPosition()
        if inst:IsAsleep() then
            -- before we disappear, clean up any crap left on the ground
            -- too many objects is as bad for server health as too few!
            local leftone = false
            for i, v in ipairs(TheSim:FindEntities(x, y, z, 6, DECAYREMOVE_MUST_TAGS, DECAYREMOVE_CANT_TAGS)) do
                if REMOVABLE[v.prefab] then
                    if leftone then
                        v:Remove()
                    else
                        leftone = true
                    end
                end
            end
        else
            SpawnPrefab("small_puff").Transform:SetPosition(x, y, z)
        end
        inst:Remove()
    end
end

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

mushtree.lua:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

    local function makestump(inst)
        if inst:HasTag("stump") then
            return
        end

        if inst._changetask ~= nil then
            inst._changetask:Cancel()
            inst._changetask = nil
        end

        RemovePhysicsColliders(inst)
        inst:AddTag("stump")
        inst:RemoveTag("shelter")
        inst:RemoveComponent("propagator")
        inst:RemoveComponent("burnable")
        MakeSmallPropagator(inst)
        MakeSmallBurnable(inst)
        inst.components.burnable:SetOnBurntFn(stump_burnt)
        inst.components.growable:StopGrowing()
        StopSpores(inst)

        inst.components.workable:SetWorkAction(ACTIONS.DIG)
        inst.components.workable:SetOnWorkCallback(nil)
        inst.components.workable:SetOnFinishCallback(dig_up_stump)
        inst.components.workable:SetWorkLeft(1)
        inst.AnimState:PlayAnimation("idle_stump")

        inst.MiniMapEntity:SetIcon("mushroom_tree_stump.png")

        inst.Light:Enable(false)

        inst:StopWatchingWorldState("is"..data.season, onisinseason)
        inst:ListenForEvent("timerdone", ontimerdone)

        if not inst.components.timer:TimerExists("decay") then
            inst.components.timer:StartTimer("decay", GetRandomWithVariance(TUNING.MUSHTREE_REGROWTH.DEAD_DECAY_TIME, TUNING.MUSHTREE_REGROWTH.DEAD_DECAY_TIME * .5))
        end
    end

local function ontimerdone(inst, data)
    if data.name == "decay" then
        local x, y, z = inst.Transform:GetWorldPosition()
        if inst:IsAsleep() then
            -- before we disappear, clean up any crap left on the ground
            -- too many objects is as bad for server health as too few!
            local leftone = false
            for i, v in ipairs(TheSim:FindEntities(x, y, z, 6, DECAYREMOVE_MUST_TAGS, DECAYREMOVE_CANT_TAGS)) do
                if REMOVABLE[v.prefab] then
                    if leftone then
                        v:Remove()
                    else
                        leftone = true
                    end
                end
            end
        else
            SpawnPrefab("small_puff").Transform:SetPosition(x, y, z)
        end
        inst:Remove()
    end
end

 

 

 

 

so the mushtree i chopped like 6 times was a new one that replace the stump from the previous? (i had in that base like 2 mushtrees that i always chop before leaving) because was a thing that i pay attention to figure how mushtrees works

[Viktor234]

14 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

so the mushtree i chopped like 6 times was a new one that replace the stump from the previous? (i had in that base like 2 mushtrees that i always chop before leaving) because was a thing that i pay attention to figure how mushtrees works

I can't find any other hint of a code which removes the "decay" timer and turns the stump back into a mushtree, so it might be just the world regrowth which places you a completly new mushtree there or nearby. For further information you might check this page and the corresponding lua noted in the page, which might tell more about the regrowth.

[Squirrel12]

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Absolutely disagree. Again, inconsidarte Woodies could be. I also do this often but mostly to bring 20 stone fruit trees for the general base. On public servers, much more often than not, having these trees is what prevents an 8 people base from starving during the first winter.

Yeah, it's super fun reaching the lunar islands where all the food has been taken :/

[thegreatJash]

I sounds like that one Wolfgang was a selfish player. I've seen them before. I don't consider rushing the ruins selfish, as long as the loot is spread throughout the team. Now that Deerclops move was just plain rude, nothing to do with the ruins. 

With Pig Houses, you shouldn't hammer them for the boards and pig skins, I only do that to relocate them for farms and stuff. Not for early Football Helmets.

With the Lunar Island stuff, there's nothing you can really do to stop them. They're not jerks for getting there first, they just simply got there first. Be nice, compromise, and spread the loot throughout the team so everyone benefits. 

I usually don't play with random people, I just play with family and friends so I can communicate with them. No communication and random people is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

[ShadowDuelist]

3 hours ago, Squirrel12 said:

Yeah, it's super fun reaching the lunar islands where all the food has been taken :/

There usually are more than 20 stone fruit plants on the island so there still is food. Plus kelp. plus Spiders. Plus fishing. 

Like I said in my post inconsiderate Woodies that exterminate all resources are a problem, but a decent Woodie actually ensures the survival of the less skilled players.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, DoMaya said:

Except, all the pig houses have been smashed, and the pig skins are the only thing missing?

Not that you heard that pig heads spawn in marsh biome near roads. thats what i personally prefer then just pig houses.

seriously i cant make up a argument because i lack skills of problem solving but heres what i think.

ruins rushing as you know is ruins in the early autumn. you can do it together if you like but the meta is mostly preferd solo. i wouldnt mind having wendy or wortox on my ruins rush but not a entire group of players of course. not everyone is the same and that is important. but if you say that it is selfish not to see the wolfgang for the whole autumn because this is dst then you should not complain. ruins rushing in don't starve solo version also is not that exciting. 2K hp ancient guardian and non-renewable ruins is kinda boring.

the concept of ruins rushing is to have all the ruins loot earlier then expected and boost yourself (or even the team) through many boss fights or everyday survival.

so you dont like the meta? you dont like ruins? i am a ruins rusher and meta lover but dont worry i am not offended. not me..

[ArubaroBeefalo]

41 minutes ago, emin61 said:

...

and for what is needed destroy the entire population of pigs? at the end killing few spiders and transforming pigs or just killing all the pigs is enough for 2 hambats and few helmets (for a rush you dont need to clean the entire ruins) 

[Mindkontrol]

If you play online, expect anything to happen. Lamenting the people who come and do things you don't like is a waste of time and emotional energy. If you don't want someone to do something, make a private server and play with some friends.. 

[FuriousChimera]

This post is just problem to play in puplic servers in general than the ruin rush itself, players hammer pig houses, destroy resources  for their own need all the time, even for just solo a spider and it always considers a jerk/selfish move.  Ruin rush in puplic servers is view as a must, because of  two reasons

First, by world gens sometime dedicated servers have no gears whatsoever

that means for just one early icebox ,there are only two  options : picking 100 tumble weeds which is tedious and boring to do or ruin rushing before winter.

Second, in dedicated server, there are alot of griefers/ accidient causes by new players ( there is a chance fire hound spawn day 18 ). It is why experienced players build flingomatic early for their bases in surface or even cave,  to protect bases form fire early is way less selffish and annoying than asking for rollback, which might delete all the progress of other players in one game day.

All the rushes exist for a reason, ruin rush for icebox or ice flingomatic, lunar stonefruit rush for easy food/prevent griefer to burn stonefruit early , boss rush for the good loot, sharing method  etc...

16 hours ago, DoMaya said:

Even IF the loot is shared, even IF they help build the base, doing ruins by yourself (without even asking if someone else wants to join) is selfish.

What is the point of building a base if all the late game content can be done in the first 15 days?

How is it fair that if I WANT to do ruins that I need to RUSH them?

People in my region sometime dont speak english ( or social awkward) at all, that doesnt mean they selfish to just join a FREE server and playing the way they want,  without bothering anyone else .No one should dictates how other people playing, or enjoying the game by a rush in a puplic servers. As long as people helping/ non trolling or griefing, to me ,it is appriciated.

[WheatleyBr]

11 hours ago, reichull said:

smash pig houses/pig head things for helmets, dig graves

The houses part, i understand, but why not smash pig heads, they have no other purpose, they do nothing besides give you pig skin a few twigs and maybe nightmare fuel if you break them at full moon, otherwise they just sit there, doing nothing, keeping them intact is just keeping yourself short on pigskin and/or helmets.
 
And about graves, why would you keep them undug? sure they aren't renewable but, keeping them undug "for later" just means that you're leaving a trinket or a gear or nightmare fuel further away from your base, digging them or not doesn't really change anything because their resources can only be lost by a moleworm eating them, which even then doesn't get rid of the resource entirely, so not digging graves and also not breaking pig heads is just leaving resources further away from your base, which can be inconvenient.

[Warlockadamm]

19 minutes ago, WheatleyBr said:

~Snip

From a basebuilder perspective, getting rid of any non-renewable ressources is a sin. 

It's especially one if it's for a ressource that can be as easily collected as pig skin (4 monster meat to a pig), or collecting trinkets for gold, gems or nightmare fuel from graves. All those ressources are really plentyful and can be aquired by other means.

This truly comes down to playstyle though, if one is doing a speed run in a not long term server, sure go ahead. But for worlds that will last for over 300-500 days, there isn't really any big advantages to destroy non-renewable ressources. Never will you see me dig a grave or hammer a pig head. It just ruins your possibilities to create something beautiful in the long run.

[CameoAppearance]

11 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

A chopped Mushtree behaves just like any other tree in the world: If you don't shovel the stump of a Mushtree, then the stump will do nothing but despawn in 15-45 days, leaving nothing behind.

 

@CameoAppearance and everyone else who still keeps reacting confused:

The confused react was at the suggestion that other stumps behave that way, because I don't recall ever seeing an evergreen or birchnut tree stump in the overworld mysteriously disappear without being dug up even if it was in an unloaded area for a long time in between me chopping it and me coming back and digging it up. I don't use mushtrees enough to be familiar with how their stumps behave in DST. (I do know how the ones that spawn from regular surface mushrooms on full moons in singleplayer behave, but DST mushrooms don't turn into mushtrees at all.) If there's code for it then I suppose that proves me wrong about it being possible, but it doesn't seem to happen to surface trees often.

14 minutes ago, WheatleyBr said:

And about graves, why would you keep them undug? sure they aren't renewable but, keeping them undug "for later" just means that you're leaving a trinket or a gear or nightmare fuel further away from your base, digging them or not doesn't really change anything because their resources can only be lost by a moleworm eating them, which even then doesn't get rid of the resource entirely, so not digging graves and also not breaking pig heads is just leaving resources further away from your base, which can be inconvenient.

Moleworms won't do anything permanent to grave loot, but there's a couple things that can destroy trinkets if they're left lying around in the graveyard instead of picked up and stored somewhere/traded away. Catcoons can swallow them (I once lost a Lying Robot I was using as a base decoration that way), and a lureplant could eat them if it takes root in the area and isn't dealt with before it can sprout.

[WheatleyBr]

2 minutes ago, Warlockadamm said:

 ~ Snip

Yeah that makes sense, i'm not really into megabasing or base building in general, since i play in ps4 everything will be poorly placed either way, so i never bothered with it, but i can see where you're coming from.

4 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

Moleworms won't do anything permanent to grave loot, but there's a couple things that can destroy trinkets if they're left lying around in the graveyard instead of picked up and stored somewhere/traded away. Catcoons can swallow them (I once lost a Lying Robot I was using as a base decoration that way), and a lureplant could eat them if it takes root in the area and isn't dealt with before it can sprout.

Huh, didn't know Catcoons ate trinkets, and yeah i kinda forgot about lureplants.

Also can we talk about people who hammer Catcoon dens?

[Viktor234]

12 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

The confused react was at the suggestion that other stumps behave that way, because I don't recall ever seeing an evergreen or birchnut tree stump in the overworld mysteriously disappear without being dug up even if it was in an unloaded area for a long time in between me chopping it and me coming back and digging it up. I don't use mushtrees enough to be familiar with how their stumps behave in DST. (I do know how the ones that spawn from regular surface mushrooms on full moons in singleplayer behave, but DST mushrooms don't turn into mushtrees at all.) If there's code for it then I suppose that proves me wrong about it being possible, but it doesn't seem to happen to surface trees often.

Just for you @CameoAppearance and every other dummy who thinks that they can prove things because they never ever even tried to watch a stump disappear, here's the lua of the Evergreen:

local function make_stump(inst)
    inst:RemoveComponent("burnable")
    MakeSmallBurnable(inst)
    inst:RemoveComponent("propagator")
    MakeSmallPropagator(inst)
    inst:RemoveComponent("workable")
    inst:RemoveTag("shelter")
    inst:RemoveComponent("hauntable")
    MakeHauntableIgnite(inst)

    RemovePhysicsColliders(inst)

    inst:AddTag("stump")
    if inst.components.growable ~= nil then
        inst.components.growable:StopGrowing()
    end

    inst.MiniMapEntity:SetIcon(inst.build == "twiggy" and "twiggy_stump.png" or "evergreen_stump.png")

    inst:AddComponent("workable")
    inst.components.workable:SetWorkAction(ACTIONS.DIG)
    inst.components.workable:SetOnFinishCallback(dig_up_stump)
    inst.components.workable:SetWorkLeft(1)

    if inst.components.timer and not inst.components.timer:TimerExists("decay") then
        inst.components.timer:StartTimer("decay", GetRandomWithVariance(GetBuild(inst).regrowth_tuning.DEAD_DECAY_TIME, GetBuild(inst).regrowth_tuning.DEAD_DECAY_TIME*0.5))
    end
end

local function OnTimerDone(inst, data)
    if data.name == "decay" then
        local x, y, z = inst.Transform:GetWorldPosition()
        if inst:IsAsleep() then
            -- before we disappear, clean up any crap left on the ground
            -- too many objects is as bad for server health as too few!
            local leftone = false
            for i, v in ipairs(TheSim:FindEntities(x, y, z, 6, DECAYREMOVE_MUST_TAGS, DECAYREMOVE_CANT_TAGS)) do
                if REMOVABLE[v.prefab] then
                    if leftone then
                        v:Remove()
                    else
                        leftone = true
                    end
                end
            end
        else
            SpawnPrefab("small_puff").Transform:SetPosition(x, y, z)
        end
        inst:Remove()
    end
end

And again for you: It does happen to any kind of chopped (or even burned) tree, but the timer for that is just like I clearly said before: Between 15 and 45 days.

[E1234]

Seems like you have a problem with selfish players ruins rushing. Just because you met a selfish player who ruins rushed doesnt mean that ruins rushing is selfish.  Thats just bad logic.

[Minitte]

I think i feel the same. I don't like playing with superstar speed runner pro dst players that much since i get to do nothing.

Sometimes i paddle my way to the island and find nothing. Sometimes i find the ruins and realized i waste time. Maybe i'm just too slow to deserve either of them though lol

[Yuuko]

28 minutes ago, Minitte said:

I think i feel the same. I don't like playing with superstar speed runner pro dst players that much since i get to do nothing.

Sometimes i paddle my way to the island and find nothing. Sometimes i find the ruins and realized i waste time. Maybe i'm just too slow to deserve either of them though lol

Maybe make a world and rush them yourself.  If you don't have much experience doing them, I recommend doing a few private game rushes just for practice.  That way when you do get the chance to hit up ruins, or boat to the lunar island, you are already prepared for what you will face.

In a pub game I'd say its a bit unfair to believe you can call "dibs" on an entire block of content that you wouldn't have touched for 3-4 seasons anyway... and getting salty that someone didn't completely avoid the block of content just in case you might want to do it later...  Are you even vocalizing these dibs?  Or is this entirely passive aggressive?

[CameoAppearance]

Technically everything in the ruins is renewable via the Fuelweaver. It's gated behind two boss fights and one of those fights is locked to the in-game calendar so it absolutely can't happen before day 21 even if everything else is in place, thus I wouldn't call it easy, but it's achievable. I sympathise with feeling left out if somebody clears the whole place out before you set foot in there, but if beating everyone else to the loot and general content is the whole problem and it's not because they ravaged the overworld in preparation for their journey or weren't available to help when players on the surface were having difficulties, this is a problem that can be fixed by either asking them to fight the shadow pieces and the Fuelweaver with you/for you or doing it yourself should they turn you down or leave first.

I agree that it's a problem when players tear down communal renewable resources for their sole personal use, but that's not a problem with ruins rushing specifically, it's a problem with selfish people who don't realise or don't care that other people might want to use those resources too. That applies no matter what goal they're working towards. Leaving the server with a bunch of loot in your pockets is undoubtedly a jerk move, but that also doesn't have anything to do with how you got the loot. On the other hand, I'm not going to condemn people simply for doing their own thing and not stepping in to help while other players are struggling to survive elsewhere on the map; you're not obligated to help strangers who you haven't made any promises to, even though it would be a nice thing to do. Besides, if they die the sanity drain could be considered a punishment for not helping them. (Assuming it's a Survival server and not Wilderness or Endless, but most pubs are.)

Honestly it seems like a recipe for bad blood and burnout if you'd rather be doing something more action-packed but instead you focus on building and maintaining a base and babysitting inexperienced players out of a sense of duty, and then when other players do what you'd rather be doing you get mad at them for it. That's the vibe I got from OP's "I'm glad HE got to have fun while I built the base" comment, at least. If you're playing a video game in such a way that you're not having fun, you should probably change what you're doing.

(Also, to tree stump guy: Fine, you proved me wrong about the surface tree stumps, can you stop @-ing me in your condescending posts full of quoted lua now? That last one didn't even have spoiler markup. When I see a stump I usually dig it up unless I spawned like two days ago and don't have shovels prototyped, so it's no wonder I'd never personally seen one poof out of existence. The confused react on your first post wasn't a diss, it was literal confusion.)

[Viktor234]

12 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

It's gated behind two boss fights and one of those fights is locked to the in-game calendar so it absolutely can't happen before day 21

Day 1 is New Moon, and you can use a Shadow Chesspiece to summon the remaining Shadow Chesspieces outside of New Moon.

=> If you're lucky enough to get any lvl 1 Shadow on day 1, then it can happen before day 21.

[glooomy]

I think the problem is more so when people are playing in a cooperative server but end up just doing everything alone (sometimes for the flex, sometimes they think they’re being helpful). A lot of people play in public co-op servers to actually... play together, do things together. Some are learning and want the experience. It is very disappointing when you want to go do something with a group of people and you find out it’s already been done by someone else- all alone, usually never asking anyone if they wanted to come with.
 

Communication is key when playing together. If you’re going to do something, ask if it’s okay or if others want to join, etc. 

[MondayNight]

12 hours ago, WheatleyBr said:

Yeah that makes sense, i'm not really into megabasing or base building in general, since i play in ps4 everything will be poorly placed either way, so i never bothered with it, but i can see where you're coming from.

Huh, didn't know Catcoons ate trinkets, and yeah i kinda forgot about lureplants.

Also can we talk about people who hammer Catcoon dens?

Also meteors tend to destroy almost all things left in their fields.