Horrendous lag in base

[CarlZalph]

I'd like to help by plotting entity densities and seeing other potential factors such as unusually high prefab counts, but it appears PS4 data is encrypted and unfortunately the PS4 SAMU keys are needed for decryption if you don't have a rooted PS4 itself to do it.

I don't have a PS4 myself, let alone a rooted one.  Alas!

[mistrbushido]

Just now, CarlZalph said:

I'd like to help by plotting entity densities and seeing other potential factors such as unusually high prefab counts, but it appears PS4 data is encrypted and unfortunately the PS4 SAMU keys are needed for decryption if you don't have a rooted PS4 itself to do it.

I don't have a PS4 myself, let alone a rooted one.  Alas!

Do you know of major lag causers in PC? From my experience, lots of dropped items tends to drop fps but the server performance tends to hold up. When it comes to large amount of mobs, server performance tends to go down even though fps holds up well. I'm curious if lag causers can be quantified somehow.

[CarlZalph]

Just now, mistrbushido said:

Do you know of major lag causers in PC? From my experience, lots of dropped items tends to drop fps but the server performance tends to hold up. When it comes to large amount of mobs, server performance tends to go down even though fps holds up well. I'm curious if lag causers can be quantified somehow.

 

`Lag` by itself is vague- it can be applied to the latency increasing for: client rendering rates, client<->server network communication, server tick rate dropping.

For a client to lose FPS, the client's GPU or CPU will be the bounding force behind it- generally from what I've seen it's the GPU when rendering too many entities at once with how Klei setup items on the ground to use an animation despite it only showing an image.

For the network to have declined there are way too many factors to say `yes, that's the cause!`, many of which are out of the client and server's control.

For server tick rate dropping that's strictly a CPU thing on the server not keeping up.  DST uses a single thread per shard thanks to the limitations set forth with the LUA state.  Too much AI at once would bog it down, as you've pointed out.

 

However, the most common of cases I've seen over the years that generate lag in the vague sense: Too many entities rendered, too many entities being simulated in a small area, and misbehaving code on Klei's end creating a higher demand from the server's CPU than intended.  The last case usually gets fixed pretty quick, but edge cases can slip on through.

[CarlZalph]

@reichull

Would you be able to re-do this with movement prediction disabled?

I'm going to take a guess and you'll have jerky/stuttering movement, which if that's the case then it'd be the server tick rate not being able to keep up.

[glooomy]

Okay, I'm back. @CarlZalph I gots some stuffs for ya! 

Here's a video of the comparison between having the lag compensation on predictive and then changing it to none. It doesn’t drag me around but it deff feels heavy and slow and as you said it does a “jerky/stuttering movement”

 

Here's a bonus video of what I go through sometimes when fighting a boss. Doesn't happen always, this was just a really bad time in particular lol! It's happened with Bearger, Moose Goose and Beequeen as well. Not sure if this is a lag problem but yeah.

 

[CarlZalph]

@reichull

Thanks, that's definitely the server tick rate not being able to keep up to normal demands.

This would be a good place for a profiler to see what's causing the load, but alas there's nothing more I can do- you may want to upload your save file as NSA has done there.  Perhaps Bizzi will be able to run some diagnostics to find out the what and where, but I'm going to assume it's the entity count being too high somewhere within your local area of ~64*1.2 units (19.2 turfs) where entities stay simulating causing too much load.  Also assuming the same entity popout radius is the same on consoles as it is for PC, but this may be lowered.

It's doubtful, but it could also be caused by the console's CPU reaching a temperature threshold and automatically underclocking it to get the temperature down.  I say doubtful because as far as I know (since the PS3 time frame) consoles don't really utilize such techniques, favouring melting hardware and crashing systems (RRoD 360s).  This may have changed with PS4 and such; I'm not sure.

[glooomy]

@CarlZalph I had a feeling it was mostly me being a massive hoarder and just having heaps of stuff laying around ahah! Thanks for checking things out and getting back to me so quickly. I really appreicate it. Hopefully I uploaded my save properly and stuff but yeah, I think my problem might just be me. Thanks again  x 

[SirDecro]

Some things that easily trigger it is turning night, snow, rain, fire. I notice when none of those are a factor it’s smooth. Having a base near the pig king is a huge no, that whole biome seems laggy almost always. It’s only day 2 on ps4 for me, so I’ll post anything I see triggering lag. This is all split screen by the way. 

[JDiceArt777]

On 11/27/2019 at 4:10 PM, bizziboi said:

Any particular area that lags? Does it always lag? (now, to be sure, I am not talking about the delay that is inherent to all actions, I am hoping to see divergent behaviour like rubberbanding or....not sure how to quantify this....more extreme lag)

I have a bunny/spider farm in my base (about 8 bunny hutches and 1 spider's nest (removed 1 nest)) and the lag gets really bad when running near it. It was a lot worse when I had 2 spider's nests. We were rubber banding terribly before we turned lag compensation off...now it's like running through quicksand when we get near it. Also, we have a forest area that we chop down and replant, in our base....once the trees are down and the logs are laying on the ground, the lag gets bad. One person can't chop and pick up, because the lag gets too bad....so chopping and gathering is a 2 man job. 
I'd love to send you my save also.... 
It would be awesome if you guys could get a handle on this... 

[bizziboi]

2 hours ago, JDiceArt777 said:

I'd love to send you my save also....

Please do, it's something I hope to get a handle on as well.

[NSAiswatchingus]

3 hours ago, bizziboi said:

Please do, it's something I hope to get a handle on as well.

Howdy sir, has the save I sent last week revealed any good info yet? I'm in absolutely no rush, just curious. Thanks again. 

[bizziboi]

None yet  I am itching to investigate more, but other issues on PS4 popped up that were more pressing and are keeping me busy.

[Marco BR]

in my case it's the same thing, my 6,700-day world is twice as lagged, the caves in the friend's worlds don't work, and the official klei servers are pinging super high and no caves either.In my case, lag appears when I'm in places with many buildings, or when another player enters my world, but caves in guest worlds seem like an old problem.

On 26/11/2019 at 4:29 AM, bizziboi said:

So would I, but I need to see a savegame that does it

I mean, I have a 6000 day save here, which is obviously quite developed and doesn't lag, so it indeed seems to be something specific, which may well be a coding issue triggered by something specific - or a more general problem, which is why I really would like to see lagging saves or specific lagging areas so I can investigate.

My world maybe 

[bizziboi]

2 minutes ago, Marco BR said:

my 6,700-day world is twice as lagged,

Could you elaborate?

Twice as lagged as when or twice as lagged as what?

As for the caves in the friend's world, how do they not work? Can't connect or? 

As for the dedicated servers, we're also trying to figure out what's going on there.

 

[NoscopeFelix]

On 26.11.2019 at 8:29 AM, bizziboi said:

So would I, but I need to see a savegame that does it

I mean, I have a 6000 day save here, which is obviously quite developed and doesn't lag, so it indeed seems to be something specific, which may well be a coding issue triggered by something specific - or a more general problem, which is why I really would like to see lagging saves or specific lagging areas so I can investigate.

Can we see your base on that world. Maybe we could learn something from that.

[Marco BR]

2 minutes ago, bizziboi said:

Twice as lagged as when or twice as lagged as what?

In my case, lag appears when I'm in places with many buildings, or when another player enters my world, but caves in guest worlds seem like an old problem... when I refer to being double, it is because until a couple of weeks ago that happened a lot less. Regarding the caves in guest worlds: Just enter a friend's world, and enter the cave, I get an infinite loading screen and  I lose the connection to the server, which is advised to the host rather than to me

[bizziboi]

It's not my base, it's a user submitted base. But I profiled it again and it's pretty close to being bad, so maybe I was just lucky.on where I was on the map. I don't think there's anything specific you could gleam from it though.

[NSAiswatchingus]

24 minutes ago, bizziboi said:

None yet  I am itching to investigate more, but other issues on PS4 popped up that were more pressing and are keeping me busy.

No worries! I'm sure y'all are slammed with the new content and new bugs. Thanks sir. 

[bizziboi]

1 minute ago, Marco BR said:

it is because until a couple of weeks ago that happened a lot less

Hmmm, I gotta dig if I have an old save from you, and if I do and we get a recent save we could compare the profiles, because it seems something got introduced recently that may be causing more lag than expected.

[Marco BR]

3 minutes ago, bizziboi said:

Hmmm, I gotta dig if I have an old save from you, and if I do and we get a recent save we could compare the profiles, because it seems something got introduced recently that may be causing more lag than expected.

I didn't make any changes in the world, I just played using the spaces I already had, curiously I started to notice the lag increase when the problems in the caves and public servers started to appear, it seems to me something about the servers ... but I can send  a new save as soon as possible...

In general I can play alone without problems, if it is something unusual I am sure you can solve, I believe in the work you do, you are amazing!

[NoscopeFelix]

I once had a Forrest near my base and after removing 95% of the trees the lag got a lot better. I only thought about removing that Forrest after we were about 700 days in.

[bizziboi]

7 minutes ago, Marco BR said:

I didn't make any changes in the world, I just played using the spaces I already had,

No, I think we did, but I wouldn't be able to load your current save in an old version of the game because of the new features introduced.

[Marco BR]

9 minutes ago, bizziboi said:

No, I think we did, but I wouldn't be able to load your current save in an old version of the game because of the new features introduced.

I'm online now, but I don't have a pendrive with me so I can send the file, so when I get it in my work I will send you a current save

[bizziboi]

Okay, have a few saves now and really hope to get a chance to look at them in the near future. Sadly I am stupid (yeah, old news), I asked people to save in spots where perf is bad, but of course the game will treat me as a new player and not as you guys, so I get spawned at the portal.

So if there's any places where perf is really bad, feel free to highlight them in some way or shape (map screenshot or something?) as it will really help trying to zoom in on any potential issues - regardless, thanks for the saves

[CarlZalph]

3 hours ago, bizziboi said:

So if there's any places where perf is really bad, feel free to highlight them in some way or shape (map screenshot or something?) as it will really help trying to zoom in on any potential issues - regardless, thanks for the saves

Are you able to have the save files decoded as regular PC DST does it?

If so, then perhaps I could be of assistance for rendering the map(s) out like so:

Spoiler

The dots represent entity densities, and on this scale factor every 1x1 unit square (wall scale).  Could help point to bases and such, as well as further entity inspection by printing out entities in a target area.