Siromatik Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 19 hours ago, mathmanican said: The 200g/s I set for water is to make sure it doesn't let gas through upon save load. Okay maybe I was too confident with 110g/s But the lock keeps working after save/reload at 150g/s, tried 3 times to save then reload again, dunno if its enought testing. 19 hours ago, mathmanican said: Salt water has 35.6g as a viscotiy rating (just checked - so same as water) Here what i ended with : Salt Water 30.1 Water 37.6 Ethanol 37.6 Super Coolant 37.6 Oil 356.7 Petrol 356.7 In which gas have you done your testing ? This disturb me ahah Tested values : I did it in 2kg CO2 at 300K, dropping 500kg/liquid 1 tiles away of a single tile. (I guess the 500kg/liquid is the problem here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Siromatik said: Here what i ended with : That all looks pretty good to me. I didn't see any difference based on gas, but changing the 500kg to 1000kg, or 200kg, or 300kg, etc., seems to slightly chage the results. So 30-40 is what I get for water (and it's variants), ethanol, supercoolant, and then 300-400, close to 350, for crude and petro. When I played with the waterfall a while ago, I seem to remember stopping near 170, and have success on save/load. Then after playing for a while I scrolled over to my waterfall and found a gas disaster. I increased to 200g/s and didn't see any more problems. Better to air on the far side if you want to use it for an air lock. If the goal is to just have a pretty waterfall, then the 110 is enough. For water, here's what I got. 35ish viscosity 50-80ish - matter conversion (same ratio worked with petro) 90-120ish - min for steady bead pump (off right side) or waterfall (off left side) anything higher maintained steady bead pump or waterfall (though specific configurations on the left side, using solid tiles, can produce a bead pump). Around 170-200+ kept the waterfall working upon save/load. There appears to be a single tick hiccup with no liquid being added, so you need about twice as much to make sure that for that one tick you don't loose the waterfall. Thanks for testing. For those who plan to use this as an airlock, make sure you test it yourself with the liquid you want to use, and try several save loads (with various types of gases around). Mixed gas environments mess up the bead pump, but have no effect on a steady waterfall (AFAIK). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 I mean, those are all minimums. Just stick down a pump and be done with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebrait Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 the pacu can swin in the waterfall??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rebrait said: the pacu can swin in the waterfall??? That sounds like a fun experiment. Someone want to test if they will swim up? Probably not since liquid content is under 300kg per tile. With an escher waterfall we could probably achieve this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebrait Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, mathmanican said: That sounds like a fun experiment. Someone want to test if they will swim up? Probably not since liquid content is under 300kg per tile. With an escher waterfall we could probably achieve this. can we increase the liquid valve to 1000g and have the waterfall???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Rebrait said: can we increase the liquid valve to 1000g and have the waterfall???? Of course. But that won't be enough to make pacus want to swim. @Yunru, @abud, @Siromatik, Any of you interested in building an escher waterfall version to see if pacus can swim UP the waterfall? I won't have game access most of today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abud Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 I don't even know it's called escher waterfall until I read wikipedia a few minutes ago. And how to implement here, I absolutely have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Not the time to mess around, but here's a couple where I was playing with them: Downward Pump.sav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkin Coaled Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Pacu will swim (well, sit there in the lower tile when the upper is not stretched up to the ceiling) in accidental waterlocks instead of flopping, don't need 300kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siromatik Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Yunru said: I mean, those are all minimums. Just stick down a pump and be done with it It's all about OPTIMISATION... but you're right ahah. Gonna give a try with your save thanks ! 3 hours ago, Rebrait said: the pacu can swin in the waterfall??? Hmmm... ! 3 hours ago, mathmanican said: Of course. But that won't be enough to make pacus want to swim. @Yunru, @abud, @Siromatik, Any of you interested in building an escher waterfall version to see if pacus can swim UP the waterfall? I stopped tests at 80kg/s, with different liquids, and even weird setup... Pacus dont want to stay IN the flow and will fall. But! he gonna stay there when reaching a floor. The only one solution i found was using a liquid with EXTREME viscosity, you know which one ? And here I ended with the feeling to be Indiana Jones entering a lost secret temple guarded by pyranas I had to pass throught to get thoses stranges falling gods gifts in the middle : @mathmanican Okay thanks for the confirmation and the simple summary on your tests about how many g/s = this. That difference between simple water and salt one... still concern me, have a simple test to do coming to my mind as I'm answering you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Siromatik said: I stopped tests at 80kg/s, 4 hours ago, abud said: don't even know it's called escher waterfall The escher waterfall can slurp up any liquid VERY QUICKLY. Pictures in the spoiler. Spoiler The only problem with getting fish to swim up is something new I just found. Each liquid has it's own maximum downward flow rate. You can't increase this, so you can't get enough liquid flowing down to get the fish to swim UP (at least not with one column... gonna try three columns later (already tried 2). Water and Polluted water is 125kg/s Petro is 50.3kg/s Salt Water is 100kg/s (forgot to keep the number in the pictures.. oops.) Naptha fluctuates between 60 and 70 (was hoping this one would give the win). Ethanol (ran out of time to check.) Higher viscosity seems to result in lower maximum downflow. Interesting mechanics, that I'm sure we can abuse... somehow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siromatik Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, mathmanican said: maximum downward flow rate This is why I stopped at 80kg/s when using Petro, while seing no change in the flow, I'd given up. Had to switch liquids at that point. 9 minutes ago, mathmanican said: already tried 2 Same, not a single frame where a Pacu get his pathfinding working. 13 minutes ago, mathmanican said: (forgot to keep the number in the pictures.. oops.) Buddy you triggered my OCD there 14 minutes ago, mathmanican said: abuse... somehow... I BELIEVE IN YOU On a side note : informations in the pannel are not true at all. They're chilling in any liquids inside their living temperature range. And you need your waterfall to be 8 tiles high for each Pacu you want in it. But who cares if they're Glum and Confined right ? Gonna call PETA, care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 FYI. Magma's downward rate is 232kg. Not that pacus could survive. I'll check the other metals later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Cypher Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 I'm trying to understand the difference between this (setup that guarantees beads) : and the goober generator: They both have the two wall tiles to the left of the liquid stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sigma Cypher said: I'm trying to understand the difference between this (setup that guarantees beads) : and the goober generator: They both have the two wall tiles to the left of the liquid stack. The amount of liquid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Cypher Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Oh I see: 6-7 times viscosity instead of 2-3 times for the bead pump. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, Sigma Cypher said: Oh I see: 6-7 times viscosity instead of 2-3 times for the bead pump. Thanks This is all napkin estimates. Trial and error may be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo Filter Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Could this be used as a heat exchanger? If the pump at the bottom sent the flow to a liquid shutoff wired to a thermal sensor (set to say 20 or 25 C if you are using water) on the pipe, it could divert liquid to an aquatuner or some other cooling method before sending it back to a liquid storage tank at the top of the waterfall that would act as a buffer to keep the flow going. Meanwhile, you build a radiant pipe (gas or liquid) so that its contents flow upwards through the waterfall, going past the chilled liquid coming down. The mass of the individual waterfall tiles is not much, but it would be transferring between the radiant pipe and a liquid and it is being constantly renewed. If it worked, it would effectively be a counter-current heat exchanger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Mojo Filter said: Could this be used as a heat exchanger? Yes it could. I look forward to seeing your design. I'm not sure it will be anywhere near as efficient as others but sounds like fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 One thing to note: There MUST be a gas on both sides of the water flow. If there's a vacuum, the water turns back into drops instead of flowing. Spoiler After disabling my pump, the flows re-established. There's about 280g per tile of gas in the middle now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Actually, it turns out you CAN make a vacuum. You just can't do it if your pump is too close to the waterfall. You can build floor tiles after the flow is established to push air out of the gap, then deconstruct them to create your vacuum. Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siromatik Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said: There MUST be a gas on both sides of the water flow. 35 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said: it turns out you CAN make a vacuum... You can build floor tiles after the flow is established to push air out of the gap... Two good notes for a regular run (out of sandbox testing I mean) that @mathmanican should add to the OP if you are okay guys. Third note : With a vacuum, split your bottom liquid in two pools for a good temperature insulation. 12 hours ago, Siromatik said: have a simple test Mission abort, nothing that much revelant about falling stuffs in different liquids, meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 hey, look, a waterfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I've not had any trouble establishing one in a vacuum. Also fun fact: Mini-pumps are perfect for 3-high locks: An interesting discovery: with a gas in the area, it will not form a hanging fluid, it will just bead. The bead will then vacuum the area, so... Accidentally even better than thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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