An Early Base Cool Steam Vent Tamer

[Tonyroid]

I screwed up. Turbines need plastic, so this isn't an "early" design. But it's still a great design, once you get plastic.

 

 

 

[SamLogan]

"Early" with super coolant?

I've try to heat the steam with the AT to 120°C to active the turbine by cooling the water produces by the vent with the AT. My problem was the AT don't generate enough heat rapidly to heat few kilos of steam per seconds.

And you only need one turbine to convert the heat and have enough power in general.

But thanks for the try.

[bobucles]

Super coolant. Steam turbines. Automation setup.

Early? Hell no.

Want an early steam geyser tamer? Literally leave it alone. The surrounding map will absorb most of the heat and drop the temperature down to hot, but usable levels. Hot water can be harnessed in research or oxygen production with little difficulty. When the surrounding tiles get too toasty dig them out for the magic 50% mass deletion, killing half of the heat at the same time.

Easy, early and will buy you at least 100 cycles to set up a more permanent solution.

[Tonyroid]

18 minutes ago, SamLogan said:

"Early" with super coolant?

I've try to heat the steam with the AT to 120°C to active the turbine by cooling the water produces by the vent with the AT. My problem was the AT don't generate enough heat rapidly to heat few kilos of steam per seconds.

And you only need one turbine to convert the heat and have enough power in general.

But thanks for the try.

There's no super coolant.

If I understand what you are saying then it sounds like you didn't watch the video. Did you get it confused with a different video?

 

15 minutes ago, bobucles said:

Super coolant. Steam turbines. Automation setup.

Early? Hell no.

Want an early steam geyser tamer? Literally leave it alone. The surrounding map will absorb most of the heat and drop the temperature down to hot, but usable levels. Hot water can be harnessed in research or oxygen production with little difficulty. When the surrounding tiles get too toasty dig them out for the magic 50% mass deletion, killing half of the heat at the same time.

Easy, early and will buy you at least 100 cycles to set up a more permanent solution.

There's no super coolant.

Leaving it alone is certainly a reasonable move. But then it wouldn't be a tamer.

[bobucles]

1 minute ago, Tonyroid said:

But then it wouldn't be a tamer.

Cool steam geysers aren't terribly wild either. A low tech colony can simply watch the steam cool down and harness the hot water right away. The full heat output takes a considerable amount of time to become a real obstacle, enough time to build up higher tier solutions with it.

[Argelle]

As a very low tech use of cool steam, you can also get very lucky with the care package and get (early on) three nice slicksters

Heat to get them confy, not a single problem of CO² (that's my single CO² remover, and they even starve) and oil as a bonus...

[Nostas]

water is the new super coolant now, eh?

really need to play this game again 

 

i like the hot water output and cold output

[Sigma Cypher]

I've been playing a while and I learned some things from this video.  For example, the double bridge thing to buffer 10 kg of water.  I've noticed that completely full loops will stutter without a buffer so this is quite helpful!  Your point about efficiency is well taken.  I am quite fond of @Nitroturtle's steam tamer:

 

and it does indeed use quite a bit more power (but to be fair it gives additional benefits for that power).  If 80% of your water is at 95C and 20% at 15C then I suppose you are getting 79C water on average, which is a little hotter than Nitro's but not too much.  And I agree it makes sense to have hot and cold faucets.

A few comments

You say gold is not as good as copper and iron for the tempshift plates.  I was surprised to learn that the thermal conductivity is the same for copper and gold, the only difference is that gold has a lower specific heat so it will change temperature faster with the same Q.  I imagine that would make it a more effective tempshift plate than copper, don't you think?

I don't believe that anything in this game is transferred along diagonals, including heat, so your tempshift plates will only affect the 4 tiles above and to the side of it.

How is the turbine on the far right not overheating?

I know it's possible to get oil before cycle 50, because I've seen @mathmanican do it.  But he has mad skillz.  So for me oil disqualifies it for early game, when you often have a geyser like this a few tiles from the starting biome.

EDIT:  On second thought I don't understand how it can be more efficient.  Nitro's setup runs the pump for about half the geyser's eruption cycle (assuming 5 kg/s geyser), and the water sieve for 1/4 of it at most, so that's about 3/4ths of 360W on average, whereas yours takes on the order of 500 W or 1000 W during the eruption cycle does it not?  Maybe I need to watch the video again.

[wronny]

2 hours ago, bobucles said:

[...] Steam turbines. Automation setup.

Early? Hell no.

Yep. Anything that uses "Tier 2" materials (Oil, Plastic, larger amounts of Steel [1], ...) does not qualify as "early", IMO. The "typical" radiator builds, are an early way to tame a Cool Steam Vent. This one is a more advanced version that's suitable for the tail end of the mid-game.

 

[1] "larger" as in more than the amounts that lime from egg-shells can supply reliably.

[natanstarke]

4 hours ago, SamLogan said:

"Early" with super coolant?

I've try to heat the steam with the AT to 120°C to active the turbine by cooling the water produces by the vent with the AT. My problem was the AT don't generate enough heat rapidly to heat few kilos of steam per seconds.

And you only need one turbine to convert the heat and have enough power in general.

But thanks for the try.

Use metal refinery output circulating the steam room you want hotter.

[beowulf2010]

1 hour ago, Sigma Cypher said:

I've been playing a while and I learned some things from this video.  For example, the double bridge thing to buffer 10 kg of water.  I've noticed that completely full loops will stutter without a buffer so this is quite helpful!  Your point about efficiency is well taken.  I am quite fond of @Nitroturtle's steam tamer:

 

and it does indeed use quite a bit more power (but to be fair it gives additional benefits for that power).  If 80% of your water is at 95C and 20% at 15C then I suppose you are getting 79C water on average, which is a little hotter than Nitro's but not too much.  And I agree it makes sense to have hot and cold faucets.

A few comments

I don't believe that anything in this game is transferred along diagonals, including heat, so your tempshift plates will only affect the 4 tiles above and to the side of it.

Tempshift plates do interact with all 8 surrounding tiles. It's their superpower. 

[PhailRaptor]

13 hours ago, Sigma Cypher said:

I've been playing a while and I learned some things from this video.  For example, the double bridge thing to buffer 10 kg of water.  I've noticed that completely full loops will stutter without a buffer so this is quite helpful!  Your point about efficiency is well taken.  I am quite fond of @Nitroturtle's steam tamer:

 

and it does indeed use quite a bit more power (but to be fair it gives additional benefits for that power).  If 80% of your water is at 95C and 20% at 15C then I suppose you are getting 79C water on average, which is a little hotter than Nitro's but not too much.  And I agree it makes sense to have hot and cold faucets.

A few comments

You say gold is not as good as copper and iron for the tempshift plates.  I was surprised to learn that the thermal conductivity is the same for copper and gold, the only difference is that gold has a lower specific heat so it will change temperature faster with the same Q.  I imagine that would make it a more effective tempshift plate than copper, don't you think?

I don't believe that anything in this game is transferred along diagonals, including heat, so your tempshift plates will only affect the 4 tiles above and to the side of it.

How is the turbine on the far right not overheating?

I know it's possible to get oil before cycle 50, because I've seen @mathmanican do it.  But he has mad skillz.  So for me oil disqualifies it for early game, when you often have a geyser like this a few tiles from the starting biome.

EDIT:  On second thought I don't understand how it can be more efficient.  Nitro's setup runs the pump for about half the geyser's eruption cycle (assuming 5 kg/s geyser), and the water sieve for 1/4 of it at most, so that's about 3/4ths of 360W on average, whereas yours takes on the order of 500 W or 1000 W during the eruption cycle does it not?  Maybe I need to watch the video again.

I'm not so sure that solution works anymore.  Looking at the pipes, it's meant to use the PW circulating in the Radiant Pipes to soak up as much heat as possible from the Steam from the Steam Vent, then send that PW to the Sieve when it's "hot enough", making use of the old fixed output of 40 C.  So you keep the PW in the loop till it reaches 95ish C, send it to the Sieve, and receive clean Water at 40 C.  Which then allows for additional cooling of the Steam (and the condensed Water from the Steam) due to the temperature difference.

With the Sieve now working on input temp = output temp + (small) heat, this system will not be effective anymore.

[Sigma Cypher]

I didn't know that thanks -- I rolled back to the stable branch when I saw that radiant pipes weren't working so I am not hip to the pre-launch changes.  That also breaks my petrol plant setup then.  I'm a bit demoralized by this news tbh.  At first blush it seems the steam generator will have to be the default heat deleter for nearly every design.  Meh.  Less interesting.

[Nitroturtle]

10 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

I'm not so sure that solution works anymore.  Looking at the pipes, it's meant to use the PW circulating in the Radiant Pipes to soak up as much heat as possible from the Steam from the Steam Vent, then send that PW to the Sieve when it's "hot enough", making use of the old fixed output of 40 C.  So you keep the PW in the loop till it reaches 95ish C, send it to the Sieve, and receive clean Water at 40 C.  Which then allows for additional cooling of the Steam (and the condensed Water from the Steam) due to the temperature difference.

With the Sieve now working on input temp = output temp + (small) heat, this system will not be effective anymore.

While it doesn't gain the benefit of adding the cooler sieved water, it still works fine for condensing the steam.  The result is the output water is just a bit hotter.  FWIW, I feed most of the hot polluted water to peppers these days.

[Tonyroid]

On 7/20/2019 at 7:13 AM, Sigma Cypher said:

I've been playing a while and I learned some things from this video.  For example, the double bridge thing to buffer 10 kg of water.  I've noticed that completely full loops will stutter without a buffer so this is quite helpful!  Your point about efficiency is well taken.  I am quite fond of @Nitroturtle's steam tamer:

 

and it does indeed use quite a bit more power (but to be fair it gives additional benefits for that power).  If 80% of your water is at 95C and 20% at 15C then I suppose you are getting 79C water on average, which is a little hotter than Nitro's but not too much.  And I agree it makes sense to have hot and cold faucets.

A few comments

You say gold is not as good as copper and iron for the tempshift plates.  I was surprised to learn that the thermal conductivity is the same for copper and gold, the only difference is that gold has a lower specific heat so it will change temperature faster with the same Q.  I imagine that would make it a more effective tempshift plate than copper, don't you think?

I don't believe that anything in this game is transferred along diagonals, including heat, so your tempshift plates will only affect the 4 tiles above and to the side of it.

How is the turbine on the far right not overheating?

I know it's possible to get oil before cycle 50, because I've seen @mathmanican do it.  But he has mad skillz.  So for me oil disqualifies it for early game, when you often have a geyser like this a few tiles from the starting biome.

EDIT:  On second thought I don't understand how it can be more efficient.  Nitro's setup runs the pump for about half the geyser's eruption cycle (assuming 5 kg/s geyser), and the water sieve for 1/4 of it at most, so that's about 3/4ths of 360W on average, whereas yours takes on the order of 500 W or 1000 W during the eruption cycle does it not?  Maybe I need to watch the video again.

Good points.

When I was talking about tempshift plates and said "copper" and "gold" I meant to say "copper ore" and "gold amalgam". I made the plates out of copper ore.

Tempshift plates definitely work diagonally. You can use them to transmit heat through the corners of walls. It's an interesting trick.

The turbines are all in the same room, so if I cool down one area that's sufficient to keep the rest of the room cool too.

Yeah, the whole "early game" thing was a bit screwed up, I overlooked some things. Plastic for the turbines in particular. My bad.

It looks to me like Nitro's setup uses less power. But I think mine would still win if I didn't cool the water below 95. I can't think of a way to do the thermodynamics to make that work though. I'd have to heat some of the steam... and condense the rest. Hmm... I have some ideas but I don't think it's worth the trouble. Since all steam vents are different, I've been measuring efficiency by the ratio of power used vs water produced. By the math, mine uses a bit under 480 continuous watts to produce 10kg/s of water.

Surely, both specific heat and conductivity matter for tempshift plates. I'm not sure how that balances out, for this application I know you can get by with pretty weak sauce.

On 7/20/2019 at 7:38 AM, wronny said:

Yep. Anything that uses "Tier 2" materials (Oil, Plastic, larger amounts of Steel [1], ...) does not qualify as "early", IMO. The "typical" radiator builds, are an early way to tame a Cool Steam Vent. This one is a more advanced version that's suitable for the tail end of the mid-game.

 

[1] "larger" as in more than the amounts that lime from egg-shells can supply reliably.

It's true. My bad.

[nivodeus]

On 7/20/2019 at 1:55 PM, bobucles said:

Super coolant. Steam turbines. Automation setup.

Early? Hell no.

Want an early steam geyser tamer? Literally leave it alone. The surrounding map will absorb most of the heat and drop the temperature down to hot, but usable levels. Hot water can be harnessed in research or oxygen production with little difficulty. When the surrounding tiles get too toasty dig them out for the magic 50% mass deletion, killing half of the heat at the same time.

Easy, early and will buy you at least 100 cycles to set up a more permanent solution.

I do this most of the time. Leave it alone and give it enough room to not overpressure and overheat or let it exchange heat with a minimal amount of tile to the surrounding. Especially good idea if the geyer itself located in the caustic biome, as it would give enough cooling power from the surrounding to get the steam to water. The water will be around 80 degree at most or 85 degrees and I usually use it computer research and Oxyfern in arboria, it usually give an average of a nice temperate oxygen and not heating up my base a lot. 

Even up to mid game, it still all works nicely, while i still have enough cool water for temp sensitive area. 

However heating it up for steam turbine might be another useful way to use it as well. I only worried if it can sustain itself. I would rather use the hot steam (the one at 500 degrees) for steam power and now that most geyser is buffed so the average output is decent enough, the steam turbine run nicely enough, and the water output can be used for oil pump as well. 

[wronny]

33 minutes ago, Tonyroid said:

It's true. My bad.

Since I forgot this in the other, hastily written, post: It is otherwise a very intersting build, that'll help a lot of players, so thanks for making these videos.

Showing a(n) early/mid/late game way to tackle specific problems or build certain contraptions is rather interesting. Nicely shows that contraptions can have an upgrade path, just like rooms (e.g. mess hall → great hall).