[Game Update] - 351082

[SakuraKoi]

20 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

I shouldn't need external website to know how much Drecko eats and excretes.

The tooltip says how much it eats and excretes. The problem is what is 2kg of an entire plant? And is 500% of 2kg really 5kg? Or 300% of 3kg=>5kg? 50% Mealwood did also a freshly spawned Glossy Drecko consume... and poop 4526g Phosphorite (Drecko 33% & 5kg), something is more than just odd.

40 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

If you're ranching them it's 2 dreckos per wheeze

Not quite sure how that number came to be since the external site I use and the number above rather indicate that with a Wheezewort taking 20kg of it per cycle, it would be 4 Drecko per Wheeze.

 

Now to be fair, up until the pips, no other critter suffered from this oddity. They should slowly but surely start to disable the automatic string reading shenanigans for these cases and manually type it.

I am by the by offended that Pips have no Morphs and Moos can not breed (nor have Morphs).

[Christophlette]

20 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

Not quite sure how that number came to be since the external site I use and the number above rather indicate that with a Wheezewort taking 20kg of it per cycle, it would be 4 Drecko per Wheeze.

A tamed happy drecko produces 10kg of phosphorite per cycle. So Grimgaw is right on that.

[Grimgaw]

28 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

The problem is what is 2kg of an entire plant?

That's what I'm referring to. 2000kcal or 2kg of a plant doesn't tell me much when it comes to Dreckos. Most plants weigh 1kg (Properties tab), so that's some abstract content like you said.

[qda]

7 hours ago, Giltirn said:

Renewable only theoretically, not practically unless you constrain yourself to just a handful of worts. I also expect you haven't played Volcanea - this was my first choice in the launch beta, as it sounded quite interesting. You have to rush insulation as pockets of 1000c rock are only 20 odd tiles outside the starter biome and at least in my playthrough there was no contiguous abyssalite boundary to protect me.

Also if heat isn't an issue in early game, and wheezeworts are an early-game heat solution, under what practical circumstances would you ever employ them?

A handful of worts for a handful a heat producers, still seems in balance for me.

And the point about volcanea isn't relevant. Anything beyond terra is supposed to challenge you in some ways, volcanea is MEANT to tackle you with large amounts of heat. If you complain about world design or game difficulty, great, there are 8 other asteroids to choose from.

You see, I could do exactly the same : "Heat isn't an issue, just roll the frozen core on every of your maps, and tadaa, cooling for anything and everything for more cycles than what your computer can handle". See how irrelevant that is ?

Edited July 11, 2019 by qda

[Harlequin80]

Collission detection for pneumatic doors is not working right.

Actually disregard that.  Just re-tested in a new game.  It seems like the change in size of the distillery caused it to overlap with existing mesh tiles & pneumatic doors which then led to mesh tiles and doors having no presence for collisions any more in that particular save only. 

[ray-jr]

11 hours ago, Ecu said:

Bugs aside, I think it makes perfect sense to have lighting requirements for the advanced rooms.  I see the issues you mention as things to discourage people from just rushing for the most advanced rooms before being ready.  If you do rush for the advanced rooms, you may have some additional issues to tackle as a result.  I really cannot see this as being a bad thing overall.

The problem I see here is, this is affecting rooms that I don't honestly see as "advanced". If this was only an issue for the rooms that can actually devolve to a lesser version of a room without a light, I'd be less annoyed (e.g. a Washroom without a powered light is still a Latrine; a Great Hall without a powered light is still a Mess Hall). Unfortunately, Klei went pretty broad when they added light requirements to rooms, so you have e.g:. a Stable that becomes, without a powered light, nothing; a Massage Clinic that becomes, without a powered light: nothing.

If the active light requirement were limited to only the true "advanced" rooms it'd be less of an issue, but that's not where it is right now. Being honest though, even then I wouldn't particularly like it, because it makes "room-ness" a thing that no longer is handled by you choosing to build the right pieces, but instead also requires constant maintenance since a part of the "room-ness" can go away in something as simple as a power outage. This seems like an unnecessary level of complexity that's going to trip a lot of people up while adding little to nothing positive to the game experience.

[Giltirn]

2 hours ago, qda said:

A handful of worts for a handful a heat producers, still seems in balance for me.

And the point about volcanea isn't relevant. Anything beyond terra is supposed to challenge you in some ways, volcanea is MEANT to tackle you with large amounts of heat. If you complain about world design or game difficulty, great, there are 8 other asteroids to choose from.

You see, I could do exactly the same : "Heat isn't an issue, just roll the frozen core on every of your maps, and tadaa, cooling for anything and everything for more cycles than what your computer can handle". See how irrelevant that is ?

If it is "balanced" in the sense you describe then the worts accomplish no net cooling, they simply move heat around like the other devices do. If this is the case then worts seem like a noob trap as you will be sacrificing so much dupe time for something that can be accomplished with an aquatuner and some pipes.

The point about Volcanea is relevant as you yourself argued that heat is not an issue in the early game. Clearly on Volcanea it is. On other easier asteroids it may not be, but you cannot just make blanket claims like that to shut down the discussion. That being said, Volcanea is probably the only map on which wheezes *are* worthwhile, for use as a stopgap solution while you rush turbines. After all you likely have no cold biome to dump heat into (wheezes will come via the printer and then farmed). On any other map like I said before, you'd be much much better off either ignoring the heat entirely like you suggest or just moving heat producers out of the base, as you will likely have turbines by the time heat becomes an issue.

The ultimate problem as I have tried to communicate is that with this new update, turbines are king and everything else is largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. This is a sad state of affairs given how diverse the solutions were before the nerf bat started swinging.

[Junksteel]

26 minutes ago, Giltirn said:

The ultimate problem as I have tried to communicate is that with this new update, turbines are king and everything else is largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. This is a sad state of affairs given how diverse the solutions were before the nerf bat started swinging.

+1.

Steam turbines were unusable not long ago and now they are all you need:

They tame geysers and volcanoes almost by themselves alone. Also, they provide crazy heat deletion and are an indirect source of infinite various materials. Oh yeah, they generate power! They are so good in everything else that I sometimes forget they are a power generator.

I like to build steam turbines but having to do so is boring. It's easy to check the game balance between wheezeworts, ice machines and steam turbines asking yourself which one of them you can successfully ignore more broadly through the game.

Wheezeworts are dead and I don't like the current state of things in that regard.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Junksteel

[zarklord_klei]

1 hour ago, Junksteel said:

+1.

Steam turbines were unusable not long ago and now they are all you need:

They tame geysers and volcanoes almost by themselves alone. Also, they provide crazy heat deletion and are an indirect source of infinite various materials. Oh yeah, they generate power! They are so good in everything else that I sometimes forget they are a power generator.

I like to build steam turbines but having to do so is boring. It's easy to check the game balance between wheezeworts, ice machines and steam turbines asking yourself which one of them you can successfully ignore more broadly through the game.

Wheezeworts are dead and I don't like the current state of things in that regard.

This couldn't be said better, its not the fact that wheezeworts are "unusable" its that they aren't worth the time and effort of maintaining any sustainable solution, no real reason to do anything except use steam turbines.

[natanstarke]

Yeah after a lot of time playing various maps and testing things especially ice makers, ice fan, worts and pips i came to a conclusion.

- worts dead and buried just not worth my time " a shame they where hands down one of my favorite things in the game together with slicksters and hatch variants".

- ice makers only useful to keep a centralizee mealwood farm alive outside of that they failed and in some point generate more problems than solved.

- ice fan - same as above good for making a cebtralized meal wood farm not die but thats it, i tried to make a mealwood for dreckos in a hotter area just a little to the left in oasis, spent 40 cycles with 4 of them and my mealwoods there stayed dead so...

- turbines - the only true option now at least theyre good in what they do i ended up having to make a turbine for every block of things 1 for base and electros and 1 for power plant " this one still under construction" my petrol gens just broke from heat and they where feeding power to 8 ethanol distiller and a oilwell +air and water pump" they broke in like 10 cycles.

- pips - totally fine by me and even fun to use which is important :).

- Waterweed - still need to test its renewability but salt water geysers would need to br a staple for them or a way to make salt water.

- salt vines - consuming too much chlorine and producing to little salt.

- rust biome - needs a critter outside dreckos.

- rust - needs renewability of some sort even space would suffice but would be better via critters.

- geysers - need balancing for the weaker ones co2, hydrogen and po2.

- a harvester arm to combo with a sweeper arm would be a cool adition for crops now to help give use more dupe time just make it not nake extra seeds just 1 for the same slot to keep it working.

Beans - now with tofu are better and good to have them growing wild.

Lights- if my kitchen lamp breaks it stops being a kitchen? For me what defines a room is its big components that said im using lights in every room that requires any dupe labor because im in need of it being faster even 2% being bad i need it.

World traits - liked all of them now with the latest patch! :).

 

[goboking]

14 minutes ago, natanstarke said:

Lights- if my kitchen lamp breaks it stops being a kitchen? For me what defines a room is its big components that said im using lights in every room that requires any dupe labor because im in need of it being faster even 2% being bad i need it.

If the lights in the massage clinic are out you're going to start wondering whose hands it is rubbing your back.  So yeah, that might actually negate the added stress relief bonus provided by the room. 

[natanstarke]

6 hours ago, goboking said:

If the lights in the massage clinic are out you're going to start wondering whose hands it is rubbing your back.  So yeah, that might actually negate the added stress relief bonus provided by the room. 

True ahahah but it would still be a massage clinic me seeing it or not! hahah