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Wagstaff's blurr problem


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1 hour ago, Toros said:

If we’re expecting devs to spend time to make an option for one person, then we’re saying that that one person who is hypersensitive is more important the the rest of everyone who could benefit from the dev time instead.

This is absolutely the sort of thing mods solve and without having to impede devs working on actual features.

Do you not care about blind people who want to play Don’t Starve?  Should the devs not be focusing on a gamemode where you can play the entire game while completely blind?

Devs could, but in terms of time invested vs how much it benefits the players as a whole, changing Wagstaff’s vision is probably one of the worst returns on investment.

Just wait a few days until a modder removes the blurry vision all together.

As a modder that's actually made mods to remove the insanity cubemaps and whatnot I can say that you're VASTLY overestimating the amount of time it takes to make a way to turn it off.

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I'm reminded of this topic in which someone asked for sanity sounds to be allowed to be disabled and a dev confirmed they are working on it, for DS and DST. So Klei is definitely looking into accessibility options for players, because they don't want their players to have to rely on mods.

This is not an odd request.

On 3/29/2019 at 7:29 PM, jambell said:

Hey folks!

Thanks for the feedback! We're looking at few solutions for this, for both DST and DS. The sound is definitely way too loud and too constant, so we're going to make it a lot more dynamic and less grating overall. Also, once the idea is established, we'll bring the volume down and get it out of the way so it doesn't continue beating you over the head.

We're doing some internal testing and tweaking right now, and once we think it's in a place that feels better for both new players learning about insanity and experienced players staying insane for long periods, we'll push it out. The DS change will likely come one of the upcoming Hamlet bug fix patches, and the DST change would come with the next release!

After that point, if you currently use the mod to mute the sanity sound, we'd love it if you tried playing without the mod for a bit to see if our changes helped. If not, let us know and we'll happily keep working at it to make it better for you and everyone (and you can re-enable the mod in the meantime!).

Thanks again for bringing this up, we appreciate it.

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16 minutes ago, Xehanightmare said:

As a modder that's actually made mods to remove the insanity cubemaps and whatnot I can say that you're VASTLY overestimating the amount of time it takes to make a way to turn it off.

I think that the devs have way more control of their code and they can clearly make this change much faster than a modder that has to pretty much decipher how this mechanic works in the first place... IMO asking an OPTION.. a no brainer... 

I must admit I was very resistant at the beginning but when the OPTION came aboard I completely embraced it...

I don't want the character to change, it would be a shame IMO.. Wagstaff is an old dude.. he is impaired.. very meta if you think about it

OMGGG

ok this...

KLEI, can u pls give special goggles (an opt-out filter) to the people having headaches with Wagstaff's blurriness effect?

Ty.. I think Wagstaff approves in a meta sense of things. xD

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31 minutes ago, Xehanightmare said:

As a modder that's actually made mods to remove the insanity cubemaps and whatnot I can say that you're VASTLY overestimating the amount of time it takes to make a way to turn it off.

Disabling features is often trivially easy.  Might be as easy as commenting out a few lines.

18 minutes ago, Bluegeist said:

I'm reminded of this topic in which someone asked for sanity sounds to be allowed to be disabled and a dev confirmed they are working on it, for DS and DST. So Klei is definitely looking into accessibility options for players, because they don't want their players to have to rely on mods.

This is not an odd request.

 

 

I love the contrast.  One person tells me it’s trivially easy, and someone else tells me 9 months ago they were working on an option to disable sanity effects.

Do you guys not see the irony in that?

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2 minutes ago, Toros said:

Disabling features is often trivially easy.  Might be as easy as commenting out a few lines.

I love the contrast.  One person tells me it’s trivially easy, and someone else tells me 9 months ago they were working on an option to disable sanity effects.

Do you guys not see the irony in that?

I don't get you. I'm honestly convinced you're just trolling at this point.

It is trivially easy, took me about ten minutes and most of that was finding what lines I needed to change. The thing you need to realize is that development teams, unlike modders, have priorities. Is a toggle nice? Yes. But it's not as important as fixing a major bug, testing new features, etc. so it's worked on whenever they're not doing something else.

The dev comments were also about the sounds, not the visuals. The blur is a different issue.

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@Toros The people are just asking here if there is solution to their problem

its upto Klei to decide what happens and upto them on how to make it happen.
all we can do is suggest and talk about it which devs take into consideration.

Telling people to stop demanding something is not quite liberal now is it?
 

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The goggle has a 10 day duration you have enough time to craft another one. plus eating raw nettles is A-okay since it does 7 hp(sensitive stomach) and 10 hunger also just cook the tea tree nuts.

The only thing klei needs to do is update the gas mask since it obviously has lenses on it that should be fine for wagstaff to see through

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Gas_Mask 

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Just going to leave these here.

 

It is absolutely within a paying customer's rights to request being given full service to what they purchased. Anyone who owns a copy of DS has purchased a license to play and use Wagstaff, and as such are entitled to get the full amount out of their purchase. Klei is not forced to make any changes, but alienating paying customers generally isn't a good business strategy.

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21 minutes ago, S19TealPenguin said:

Just going to leave these here.

 

It is absolutely within a paying customer's rights to request being given full service to what they purchased. Anyone who owns a copy of DS has purchased a license to play and use Wagstaff, and as such are entitled to get the full amount out of their purchase. Klei is not forced to make any changes, but alienating paying customers generally isn't a good business strategy.

I’m not going to watch those videos tonight, but I think that is a reasonable take.

I would prefer if Klei focused on normal development and people who have disabilities use the mod that simply disables the blur.  It’s a very small change, for a tiny portion of the population.

I agree with it being a good strategy to accommodate disabilities, and that’s why I’m glad that it’s standard for PC games to support rebinding keys.

I don’t think that it makes business sense to accommodate every disability, particularly sensory processing disorders that aren’t recognized in the DSM.

It would be relatively simple to have an alternate overlay for Wagstaff’s blindness for Klei, but at the risk of splitting hairs, where do you think reasonable accommodations end?

If a player gets nauseous from the autumn colorcubes, who is responsible for fixing that for them?  Is it ethical to simply be reactive in accommodation  or must Klei provide a massive amount of options for every real and imagined possibility?

My biggest issue in this thread is a sense that Klei owes people changes in this case.  It’s probably worth the time to maintain goodwill, and I expect after the complaints expressed in this thread they will, but I feel there is an undercurrent of entitlement that rubs me the wrong way.

Klei has been fantastic with their support of DS and I feel a whole lot of people complain about trivialities here constantly.  This sense of them owing a few people disproportionate amounts of time simply isn’t fair to the rest.

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7 minutes ago, Toros said:

I would prefer if Klei focused on normal development and people who have disabilities use the mod that simply disables the blur

Not everyone has access to mods, it should be done officially.

8 minutes ago, Toros said:

I don’t think that it makes business sense to accommodate every disability

Here's the best way, be proactive with more common issues (disable screen shake has always been a thing), more niche issues can be reactive (You don't need to anticipate someone getting nauseous from autumn, but when they do, fix it). For example, restaurants will have special options for gluten free and lactose intolerant people (common and proactive) , but may not have a ready answer for when someone is allergic to a certain kind of fruit (rare and reactive).

14 minutes ago, Toros said:

My biggest issue in this thread is a sense that Klei owes people changes in this case

They do. Wagstaff is available to base game DS, this literally effects every person who bought it. It's our money.

15 minutes ago, Toros said:

I feel a whole lot of people complain about trivialities here constantly

This content is in open beta, now is exactly the time to give our feedback. I don't make complaints because I hate the game, I do so because I love it and want it to be better.

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5 minutes ago, S19TealPenguin said:

Not everyone has access to mods, it should be done officially.

Here's the best way, be proactive with more common issues (disable screen shake has always been a thing), more niche issues can be reactive (You don't need to anticipate someone getting nauseous from autumn, but when they do, fix it). For example, restaurants will have special options for gluten free and lactose intolerant people (common and proactive) , but may not have a ready answer for when someone is allergic to a certain kind of fruit (rare and reactive).

They do. Wagstaff is available to base game DS, this literally effects every person who bought it. It's our money.

This content is in open beta, now is exactly the time to give our feedback. I don't make complaints because I hate the game, I do so because I love it and want it to be better.

Sticking with the restaurant analogy, Wagstaff is like them offering free breadsticks and people demanding gluten free substitutes.  He’s a free addition, not dlc.  Most restaurants don’t carry gluten free everything and are perfectly in their rights to say “No, we don’t have gluten free pasta but we have various salad options that can suit your needs.”

There are 20ish character options fully available for people who are sensitive to blur.  The idea that adding something for free demands additional consideration beyond reasonable quality expectations is absurd.  

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Just now, Toros said:

He’s a free addition, not dlc.

He is not free, he is included in the price of the game. Wagstaff causing genuine harm to some people is a serious concern that affects all current and future owners of the game.

6 minutes ago, Toros said:

Most restaurants don’t carry gluten free everything and are perfectly in their rights to say “No, we don’t have gluten free pasta but we have various salad options that can suit your needs.”

You got your analogy wrong. This isn't the restaurant saying "We do not have bread sticks that are safe for you to eat". This is as if someone asked the waiter/waitress if there is a gluten free option and then you (from the next table over) start yelling at them about how they are so entitled to even think about asking for alternatives and that they should just leave.

You. Are. Not. Klei.

Stop speaking on their behalf and stop insulting their patrons.

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5 hours ago, Nikulic said:

The goggle has a 10 day duration you have enough time to craft another one. plus eating raw nettles is A-okay since it does 7 hp(sensitive stomach) and 10 hunger also just cook the tea tree nuts.

The only thing klei needs to do is update the gas mask since it obviously has lenses on it that should be fine for wagstaff to see through

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Gas_Mask 

Yeap.. That's all fine and all but there is a health concern so it doesn't hurt anybody to ask for an option to turn the filter off... 

The gas mask remark is pretty smart... I think you are right.. :)

I'm gonna include this in my suggestions post and I'll credit you for bringing that up. Ty. 

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On 4/21/2019 at 10:47 AM, JosePapp said:

Just add this as an option for those migraine filled users like wigfrid's ö's and get this over with.

This. Through a mod or vanilla accesibility toggle, those that get sick with his feature should be able to get the blurry area changed for just pitch black. Then you'd see the world only at the tiny area he sees okay without glasses. The point is that you can barely see anything without glasses and that you should wear them all the time, as @FreyaMaluk has been explaining. His con is to limit the usage of headgears.

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42 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

This. Through a mod or vanilla accesibility toggle, those that get sick with his feature should be able to get the blurry area changed for just pitch black. Then you'd see the world only at the tiny area he sees okay without glasses. The point is that you can barely see anything without glasses and that you should wear them all the time, as @FreyaMaluk has been explaining. His con is to limit the usage of headgears.

so... it was a bit confusing all this thread to be honest cuz the focus was more on the side of ... Pls change the whole game.. there isn't pig skin for goggles and other unrelated stuff and that SEEMED a bit fishy to me... that's why I tried to the best of my abilities to give a good explanation on how to work with goggles, etc.. cuz I attributed this to inexperience

but then other people started to report this besides @Drakolyn. @MWY also reported this issue so I realized ok.. this is not an isolated case...

but then there was also the issue that Wagstaff as a character also gives u a unique perspective on people with disabilities.. so yeap... I wouldn't change him personally for myself cuz I understand this is also part of his character.. he is an old dude.. he cannot see well.. and his disability gives a lot of dormant lore which is very interesting...

at that point then came the idea of asking for an OPTION.. and to that I say... absolutely...

an option to turn the blurriness off is the perfect middle to not change the character for everybody and on the other side, allow people with extreme eye drain to enjoy the character as well

when the OPTION came, that was a no brainer to me... and I hope this is gonna be same for the devs

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@FreyaMaluk I kinda I found it funny players would want an option for Wigfrid's Umlauts since they don't do anything except for just removing them over the "o"s 
I'm wondering when will people ask for toggle of simple fonts for Wormwood :D 

But the blurriness of Wagstaff counts in the same category as the blurry and woozy effects you get while you go insane, those literally make me feel woozie in real life so I have to turn them off.

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Yeah an option would be great

i understand it represents his disability but if it hurts others with real life disabilities and unlike the bloom/distortion effects can't be turned down, then we have a problem

the fog also bothers my eyes a bit but I can turn that off in world gen  

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55 minutes ago, Drakolyn said:

Yeah an option would be great

i understand it represents his disability but if it hurts others with real life disabilities and unlike the bloom/distortion effects can't be turned down, then we have a problem

the fog also bothers my eyes a bit but I can turn that off in world gen  

it there was a option that just made it dark in the settings rather than blurred that would be fine

but in the slim chance they don't i suggest that you should just make a fast visor they don't drain durability when active and to farm pigs for goggles

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2 hours ago, Drakolyn said:

Yeah an option would be great

i understand it represents his disability but if it hurts others with real life disabilities and unlike the bloom/distortion effects can't be turned down, then we have a problem

the fog also bothers my eyes a bit but I can turn that off in world gen  

As someone who is literally as blind as Wagstaff without his glasses on. I don't understand the point of "hurting others with real life disabilities" statement. Blindness is a disability (and the varying degrees of blindness). Its just that we've normalized it so much in society people often forget it is a disability.

And this is my personal opinion, I fell in love immediately with Wagstaff for the simple fact that "This is a character I can personally identify with" because of the struggle to see, miss-identify things and otherwise struggle with vision related tasks that others take for granted. Heck, even the concept of headwear being limited due to glasses is mirrored from real life. And those of you who do wear glasses know the struggle especially with winter hats and trying to keep your glasses straight on your head.

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2 hours ago, MWY said:

@FreyaMaluk I kinda I found it funny players would want an option for Wigfrid's Umlauts since they don't do anything except for just removing them over the "o"s 
I'm wondering when will people ask for toggle of simple fonts for Wormwood :D 

But the blurriness of Wagstaff counts in the same category as the blurry and woozy effects you get while you go insane, those literally make me feel woozie in real life so I have to turn them off.

I turn off the woozy effects of insanity, as well.  

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2 hours ago, Griver84 said:

As someone who is literally as blind as Wagstaff without his glasses on. I don't understand the point of "hurting others with real life disabilities" statement. Blindness is a disability (and the varying degrees of blindness). Its just that we've normalized it so much in society people often forget it is a disability.

And this is my personal opinion, I fell in love immediately with Wagstaff for the simple fact that "This is a character I can personally identify with" because of the struggle to see, miss-identify things and otherwise struggle with vision related tasks that others take for granted. Heck, even the concept of headwear being limited due to glasses is mirrored from real life. And those of you who do wear glasses know the struggle especially with winter hats and trying to keep your glasses straight on your head.

@Drakolyn is saying that this is maybe ironic cuz Wag disability effect in the game is hurting people's eyes with a real life disabilities like Drakolyn. 

Drakolyn already conceded he wants an OPTION to disable said blur effect.. Not a change for everybody... 

I think you are confused and maybe missquoting him.. 

This thread was a bit confusing already cuz it wasn't very clear in OP what he really meant.. So yeap... Maybe go back and read a bit in context what happened :)

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