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EuedeAdodooedoe    1,186

The hunger drain was really the main reason players hated her. Now it seems like none cares too much because it's a non-issue almost, despite catapults staying as is? The spotlight mechanic was tuned to work better for multiple players, but remember that the character isn't really desirable to play as still, unless the faster crafting is something that you would constantly want to take advantage of, but is that worth not picking a more powerful character? For mega base building? That's very situational even then, no? She seems very much like a pick-and-drop character still, just more bearable to play with. The 5 special craftables as we have seen are a bit problematic for a multiplayer environment because of this, so I really think mechanic-based approach rather than entirely craftables approach for character reworks should be done, and in a way that's quite significant.

I've proposed my suggestions before for her character. They are not really of my own, but I do think they would be great for her character.

 

1) Crafting with half the costs

2) Tape to repair weapons and armor

3) Faster harvesting along with the faster crafting

4) Slower crafting, slower movement speed, slower harvesting and crafting with normal costs when hungry

5) Increased hunger rate rather than a set hunger point drain with a minute cooldown?

 

But what do others really think right now? Any changes that you would want to tune Winona more? What do you think of the suggested above?

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Viktor234    1,002
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

1) Crafting with half the costs

2) Tape to repair weapons and armor

3) Faster harvesting along with the faster crafting

4) Slower crafting, slower movement speed, slower harvesting and crafting with normal costs when hungry

5) Increased hunger rate rather than a set hunger point drain with a minute cooldown?

  1. Way too overpowered: That ability would allow you to spawn an unlimited amount of ressources by constructing structures & hammering them down. There's a reason why you need a green gem and a (Broken) Ancient Pseudoscience Station to achieve such power.
  2. I would agree with the lowest tier of weapons but not with the higher one: It feels way too op if she can turn cut grass into Thulecite.
  3. According to the Winona Animated Short she's talented in crafting objects, only in The Gorge she's talented in gathering.
  4. 51 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

    She seems very much like a pick-and-drop character still, just more bearable to play with.

    That ability would make her an even better pick-and-drop character

  5. That might motivate players to craft many items at once rather than just a single one and wait afterwards if the increased hunger doesn't stack with further craftings.

I would agree with 3 and 5 but not until we see the other character updates.

Edited by Viktor234
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EuedeAdodooedoe    1,186

@Viktor234 I have been told it is OP, but many character abilities are quite OP as is, and I don't think their perks themselves should be nerfed. Wickerbottom's books and WX's overcharge added along with his gear consumption and upgrades are awesome. The WX's perks are on par with the reduced cost construction perk and tape being used. Being able to just repair lower tier weapons and armor isn't really that useful long term, most players won't use lower tier gear.

I really do not understand why people would hate the idea of her being able to craft some more thulecite items and craft basic items with less cost. You're literally just saving up resources, she's not a character everyone would always want to play as because of it, just someone one or two players would surely want to pick for helping out a team greatly and being enjoyable to play at the same time. WX's perks are OP, but they don't feel like they need a nerf, rather that his downside(s) need to be harsher, like the rain being more deadly, with faster sizzling with higher wetness meter. I'd argue the canons are way more OP than the tapes and half the crafting cost combined.

So long as people can manage hunger, the downside doesn't kick in, it would usually be something you need to watch out for and sometimes it could really kick you in the gut, other times you probably don't need to worry about it. It's a great downside. The upsides + the downside I've proposed would make her a great character that can synergise and be on par with the most powerful characters. I mean, do we want more meh characters or more awesome characters?

But do you think Winona particularly needs any changes? What would you change about her if so?

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x0VERSUS1y    1,995

For all intents and purposes Winona is fine as is atm.

 

Still if I were to throw my towel into the re-balance ring with a PS attached to it, I would change only 2 aspects of current Winona:

 1) Hunger stop-drain from 1 minute buffer lowered to 30s;

 2) 1 Gear requirement per generator recipe.

 

The argument people pick a character for its forte-punctual-application to only change back into one of "The Holy DST Trinity" is relative. From what I've seen in pubs only experienced and efficiency-oriented players do that on Endless servers; bulk of casuals stick to one pick - not to mention most newbies and noob players (majority of player-base) can't master at all the cons of Wolf/Wicker/WX, running wimpy/insane/half-dead around aimlessly till their swift and untimely demise.

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EuedeAdodooedoe    1,186
Posted (edited)

@x0VERSUS1y sure, you make a good point about most players not being able to master difficult mechanics. But crafting, using tape on weapons and tools, and the harsher downside when at low hunger is the exact opposite of that. For Wickerbottom, you will be losing sanity when taking use of books, so you have to be well equipped to fight that, similar with WX when getting overcharged. But for Winona, all you have to do is make sure you just eat a bit more than usual, it's not difficult to learn to keep your hunger high, that should be a given.

It may be fun for casual use to have these characters just because, but isn't that how they started out? Winona was given a few more perks, but she wasn't really made that much more useful in a general sense. New players might not even take use of the catapults and whatnot to be fair. Having a better tape and half the crafting cost for things by default is instant demonstration of a more fun and interesting character to play as, and it will obviously prove to more experienced players as well that she can be a good asset to the team and as someone to play as. Isn't that what the purpose of the reworks supposed to be? Or are we having them now to have things different for the sake of being different?

Chances are, most of the changes are going to be done this month, if haven't already for the character. I would really love the above being applied, I have not had any will or reason to play much of any other character than WX. I would love to play as someone else, but again, if I don't see their use and it's not fun to play as them, what's the point? Willow in single player is much more fun and robust than in multiplayer and not just because of fire immunity, albeit that is a big part of why she is fun to play in single player.

Edited by EuedeAdodooedoe

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JJburner    239
Posted (edited)

You complained before the update, you complain after the update, you complain complain, get your way and cannot have it. Wait a few seconds, think how your thoughts of how the game are most definitely not everyones' choices, as are mine and others, and just wait for the content update. Stop complaining about a feature about a character and proceed to complain after they listen and fix that issue, CLEARLY you do not know the issue. It's annoying that you badger klei, and just **** on anyone who has a different opinion right or wrong. You're being hypocritical and it's ridiculous how you just don't shutup after they do what you ask. It's been 2 years and you are still only complaining on the forums constantly and consistently...

image.thumb.png.5fb07f80217390cbf7baac4850bd96cf.pngimage.thumb.png.9f89215214ec58e73a4125bc28c3a973.pngimage.thumb.png.c5265b1e9125c0d3e38f0ff200864b28.png

Edited by JJburner
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camelot    52
 
 
 
 
3
5 hours ago, JJburner said:

You complained before the update, you complain after the update, you complain complain, get your way and cannot have it. Wait a few seconds, think how your thoughts of how the game are most definitely not everyones' choices, as are mine and others, and just wait for the content update.

This. This is why we should wait for some characters rework to have a good idea about how to balance things. Klei should focus more on developing new content, so 1 hotfix after each character rework is enough. After like 3-5 characters rework, they could review all the balancing ideas and decide.

About Wiona, 2 main problems are: 

Negligible downside. 1 possible fix would be when she fast-crafting things consecutively, hunger rate drains 10x (or 32.5x) faster than normal. Reset (return to normal rate) when she does not craft anything in 30-60s. 

Pick-and-drop character: Make GEM generators could only be fueled by the special gems refined only by Wiona. So you have to mass refine special gems before you leave (which is most of the time is a bad decision) or to have a Wiona around. Different type of gem will have a different number of special gem when refined. Blue, red = 1; Purple = 2; Green, Yellow, Orange = 3

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Stonetribe    297

What if the we we're able to turn the nitre generators on and off but not the gemerators? I know the developers were worried that the ability to turn the gen/gem-erators on/off would be too efficient, but I'm wondering if this would mainly apply to the one that uses a scarcer, longer lasting fuel source rather than the one that's more common but shorter lived. Just a random little idea I had, no idea if it's any good or not heh.

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EuedeAdodooedoe    1,186
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, JJburner said:

You complained before the update, you complain after the update, you complain complain, get your way and cannot have it. Wait a few seconds, think how your thoughts of how the game are most definitely not everyones' choices, as are mine and others, and just wait for the content update. Stop complaining about a feature about a character and proceed to complain after they listen and fix that issue, CLEARLY you do not know the issue. It's annoying that you badger klei, and just **** on anyone who has a different opinion right or wrong. You're being hypocritical and it's ridiculous how you just don't shutup after they do what you ask. It's been 2 years and you are still only complaining on the forums constantly and consistently...

image.thumb.png.5fb07f80217390cbf7baac4850bd96cf.pngimage.thumb.png.9f89215214ec58e73a4125bc28c3a973.pngimage.thumb.png.c5265b1e9125c0d3e38f0ff200864b28.png

Image result for what meme

 

I'm not even complaining on the level some other people were before, calm down. Just expressing my opinion that's all. Is there some specified time period I am granted access to post my thoughts about something? If everyone does it, it's ok, if none does it I should stfu?

Some people get puffed up because there hasn't been an update on upcoming content after 2 - 3 weeks of waiting, don't you think that's a way bit more on the complaining side than anything I posted here?

Edited by EuedeAdodooedoe
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lifetheuniverse    1,310

I'm happy about the followup changes made to Winona, but she could certainly use some more work. What are forums for if not to discuss stuff like that?
Continuing to talk about the character update while it's relevant is better than waiting until it's long gone by and settled to a point that it probably won't be changed, imo. Keep the ball rolling and get what we can done while the updates are fresh, so we can move onto the next update without reservations.

On-off switches are sensible gameplay-wise (and already implemented for other devices/items even), and flex tape repair has been a pretty widespread community request since Winona was first discovered; heck, a lot of people assumed it'd be able to repair at first. It would be a good fit with the lowered armor durability and increased overall resource usage of DST. It wouldn't have to fix straight-up magical items; there's already a premise for that idea, with gems shattering rather than dropping from items that the Deconstruction Staff is used on.

I do feel that there's a bit too much concern with balance in a PvE game (of course things should be balanced to a reasonable point, but still), and that even within Klei, it's stifled people's willingness to look at what makes for consistently interesting gameplay.
Very clear by this point that they've been trying to make DST a much more casual, forgiving game. Might as well get some benefit out of their decision to drop the 'unforgiving survival' premise and worry more about satisfying gameplay than number crunching.

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CrimXane    122

 i mean woodie's is 

1) chops wood faster
2) infinite annoying axe
3) becomes a wood molester when he cuts a lot of wood

i think people just want more to her as she has a bigger role in the lore,
or cause she was overhyped as the first DST exclusive character.
ey
atleast it's not a second wilson

also, i love your pfp marry me.

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pedregales    195

First, even if Winona is not useful by herself, I think this changes have made her interesting enough to at least be chosen from time to time, and that is nice. There will also be the set of people that will stay playing with her because they like the character, or even the faster crafting (which believe it or not, is very useful).

1) I think it is OP in many ways. Unless it doesn't work with construction amulet, otherwise it would be the super-best combo with deconstruction staff. Still OP, but manageable, maybe? Personally I don't want it though.

2) Repairing weapons, well, I don't know, they are mostly super cheap to craft so is not like one cares much for it. Now, armor on the other hand can be either very expensive or require too many crafting steps (2 ropes before you can make a log armor, 2 papyrus before night armor, etc.), in which case repairing it seems like a faster option. The way I said it is very subjective though (and it is, but it can be measured, just not on the mood for it).

3) This would be nice. Not needed, but nice.

4) Slower movement speed while hungry is a bit counter-intuitive as it makes searching for food harder (if you don't have any), specially when added with the other slowing factors. It is a sure way to indirectly kill someone just because they were exploring. The other stuff like slower crafting speed and harvesting is fine for me as it gives a limit to them and they are not straight up good perks; this as long as hunger crafting with no cooldown does not exist.

5) I agree for faster hunger rate over hunger crafting cooldown (or hunger crafting in general). Though that is not a surprise, I have advocated for it since day one, and is that it is simply "superior": easier to measure by the player, and easier to get accustomed to; while serving the same purpose.

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JohnWatson    3,135
On 3/20/2019 at 3:09 PM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

The hunger drain was really the main reason players hated her. Now it seems like none cares too much because it's a non-issue almost, despite catapults staying as is? The spotlight mechanic was tuned to work better for multiple players, but remember that the character isn't really desirable to play as still, unless the faster crafting is something that you would constantly want to take advantage of, but is that worth not picking a more powerful character? For mega base building? That's very situational even then, no? She seems very much like a pick-and-drop character still, just more bearable to play with. The 5 special craftables as we have seen are a bit problematic for a multiplayer environment because of this, so I really think mechanic-based approach rather than entirely craftables approach for character reworks should be done, and in a way that's quite significant.

I've proposed my suggestions before for her character. They are not really of my own, but I do think they would be great for her character.

 

1) Crafting with half the costs

2) Tape to repair weapons and armor

3) Faster harvesting along with the faster crafting

4) Slower crafting, slower movement speed, slower harvesting and crafting with normal costs when hungry

5) Increased hunger rate rather than a set hunger point drain with a minute cooldown?

 

But what do others really think right now? Any changes that you would want to tune Winona more? What do you think of the suggested above?

nick-young-confused-face-300x256-nqlyaa.

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