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One Seed to rule them all


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I actually just openned up the first seed in game and all of the geysers are in some really inconvenient positions.

1 slush is in the space biome.
2 are in the oil biome.
1 slush in cold biome
1 PW in the same cold biome which will cool the biome down eventually.

Theres only 1 small cold biome that isn't compromised.

The x3 gold volcano seed is good though, I've done a few play throughs on it. The slush geysers are all bunched up close together.

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Not a big fan of the nat gas placement. You're nearly in the oil biome. And the 2 cool steam are a good clip away. How's the placement of the last slush and other 2 nat gas?

 

The two oilwells next to each other is nice. Don't have to travel the entire width of the map for at least two. And they're out of the way if you want to build a magma petrol boiler.

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3 hours ago, ChickenMadness said:

I think the tripple gold volcano + Quadroople slush geyser one might be better though.

The seed (411454804) was the reason for me to start a new base ;)

The only thing I am missing here is a chlorine vent (but I never really needed one, it´s more the possibility to have an other sustainable resource)

 

PS: I wouldn´t recommend the first seed because of the space map, no terrestrial planets ...

=> Just the highest polluted water output doesn´t make an good seed for me

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22 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

The seed (411454804) was the reason for me to start a new base ;)

The only thing I am missing here is a chlorine vent (but I never really needed one, it´s more the possibility to have an other sustainable resource)

ye I usually prefer to have 1 chlorine vent on the map but realistically I never use it.

3 hours ago, ishakaru said:

Not a big fan of the nat gas placement. You're nearly in the oil biome. And the 2 cool steam are a good clip away. How's the placement of the last slush and other 2 nat gas?

 

The two oilwells next to each other is nice. Don't have to travel the entire width of the map for at least two. And they're out of the way if you want to build a magma petrol boiler.

Whole map (411454804)

The third oil well is about equal distance from the 3 slush geysers as well. The nat gas in the top right is in a bad spot but I personally don't really care about nat gas geysers and go straight for the oil once I need it.

I like where the last slush geyser is because the cold biome can be turned into a gulp fish + sleet wheat + ice factory

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I am probably the odd man out here... but doesn’t this whole process cheapen the experience? Like is this not the same as turning on god mode and stomping computers on easy in an RTS? If you have an unlimited amount of the most valuable resources where is the challenge? Why not just build in debug? Especially if you have scouted the map and know exactly where to look. To each their own, but seems to take a fair bit of the excitement and sense of accomplishment out of the game to me. :?

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not everyone plays the same.  This will be perfect for me .. allowing me to worry about other things other than suffocating and overheat while I perfect my building process.  Yeah debug but you dont really get a rhythm doing that as everything can be free

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1 hour ago, Cypher-7 said:

I am probably the odd man out here... but doesn’t this whole process cheapen the experience? Like is this not the same as turning on god mode and stomping computers on easy in an RTS? If you have an unlimited amount of the most valuable resources where is the challenge? Why not just build in debug? Especially if you have scouted the map and know exactly where to look. To each their own, but seems to take a fair bit of the excitement and sense of accomplishment out of the game to me. :?

I feel you odd man, also IMHO random seed might the only replay value for ONI, but I think this could be a quest to find the one seed to rule them all and for you to not touch it.

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2 hours ago, Cypher-7 said:

I am probably the odd man out here... but doesn’t this whole process cheapen the experience? Like is this not the same as turning on god mode and stomping computers on easy in an RTS? If you have an unlimited amount of the most valuable resources where is the challenge? Why not just build in debug? Especially if you have scouted the map and know exactly where to look. To each their own, but seems to take a fair bit of the excitement and sense of accomplishment out of the game to me. :?

Having an engineering mindset where challenge is the main draw is also why I don't bother with seeds. It's not just having the best POIs though, but also knowing what they are before starting the game. Using a seed removes all mystery and excitement when you find a POI and don't know what it is yet. Even if it's not the best POI or location, it's still fun to try and use it and even create designs that few would think of since it's often unwanted by most.

Your RTS "God Mode" comparison is more in line with debug though, in that it's usually used to test new ideas with little to impede you (or they suck really bad at games). The RTS comparison I'd go with would be 7v1 computer stomp games, which always results in fast wins where you learn absolutely nothing because you're never in any danger and rely on everyone to do the work for you (Such as using others designs instead of your own in ONI). Less ideal map seeds could be seen as 5v1 or 3v1 matches which are still easy but require slightly more player input. They were still remarkably popular with casuals though, who wanted a quick and easy way to kill 10 minutes per match and feel good about the "win".

If they get enjoyment out of remarkably easy games then that's great for them, but it does come at the cost of learning nothing as there's no challenge to facilitate learning. It's their loss, but to each their own.

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53 minutes ago, Yucie said:

If they get enjoyment out of remarkably easy games then that's great for them, but it does come at the cost of learning nothing as there's no challenge to facilitate learning. It's their loss, but to each their own.

I really think that the kind of analogy are not good at all.

You can't compare a RTS and ONI. Because... Well... It's not the same type of game.

RTS are pretty straight forward -> Gather resources -> Build base -> Train troops -> Kill the enemy.

To "win" a game in ONI you have to understand what you're doing and manipulate a great variety of machines that works differently. Even plants are machines of some sort that have special needs. You can't say that by choosing what geysers are in the map you can't learn anything. The game is already a challenge when you start.

Yes. When you have 800 hours in ONI and launched hundreds of rockets then you won't have a challenge when choosing a seed with lots of cool slush geysers. But you can still improve your designs, try to build different contraptions or/and use a different way to play the game.

You really should not make a judgment on people that use seeds. Respect others opinions and their way to play a game.

(And just because I thought of this little quote even though it has no link : Opinions are like *******s. Everybody has one.)

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6 minutes ago, Christophlette said:

You really should not make a judgment on people that use seeds. Respect others opinions and their way to play a game.

(And just because I thought of this little quote even though it has no link : Opinions are like *******s. Everybody has one.)

Funny, I do believe I said as much, but you've made the judgemental assumption and made yourself look foolish as a result.

Plus, what is your point here exactly?

10 minutes ago, Christophlette said:

You can't compare a RTS and ONI. Because... Well... It's not the same type of game.

RTS are pretty straight forward -> Gather resources -> Build base -> Train troops -> Kill the enemy.

ONI is about gathering resources -> building a base -> training dupes -> Obtain unlimited resources from planets.

So...

16 minutes ago, Christophlette said:

To "win" a game in ONI you have to understand what you're doing and manipulate a great variety of machines that works differently. Even plants are machines of some sort that have special needs. You can't say that by choosing what geysers are in the map you can't learn anything. The game is already a challenge when you start.

Congrats on also describing an RTS game.  The genre that's often easy to play but hard to master, where mechanics are varied and knowledge helps you win the game.

27 minutes ago, Christophlette said:

Yes. When you have 800 hours in ONI and launched hundreds of rockets then you won't have a challenge when choosing a seed with lots of cool slush geysers. But you can still improve your designs, try to build different contraptions or/and use a different way to play the game.

I also said nothing to the contrary.

Cypher made the comparison to an RTS and I added my two cents to his analogy. I also never fervently disagreed with using seeds either, as I stated that those who enjoy themselves while doing so is a great thing.  They're having their fun and that's why I said nothing to the contrary.

You sound bitter for the sake of being bitter.

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2 hours ago, Yucie said:

If they get enjoyment out of remarkably easy games then that's great for them, but it does come at the cost of learning nothing as there's no challenge to facilitate learning. It's their loss, but to each their own.

@Yucie That was unnecessary and derogatory, if someone wants to invest a hundred of hours into building a megabase and they have certain systems in mind, ensuring they will have resources to do so instead of losing the rng lottery and rolling a couple of totally useless vents is NOT a remarkably easy game. Nobody forces you to do anything. Don't judge others and mind your own business.

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1 hour ago, Yucie said:

The RTS comparison I'd go with would be 7v1 computer stomp games, which always results in fast wins where you learn absolutely nothing

4 minutes ago, Yucie said:

Plus, what is your point here exactly?

I'd go with that sentence. You literally said that you learn nothing by making an analogy between a 7v1 RTS game and choosing a seed in ONI. I'm not saying it. You are. Hence my post. Because it's not true at all. We all learn differently and analogies like that are generalizations... Generalizations leads to dead-end discussions. Or worse.

 

8 minutes ago, Yucie said:

Congrats on also describing an RTS game.  The genre that's often easy to play but hard to master, where mechanics are varied and knowledge helps you win the game.

When playing Pokemon -> You gather pokemons -> You build a team -> You train your pokemons -> You fight other trainers. Is that the same kind of game ? Are we all playing Starcraft2 and ONI thinking those are unique games when in fact we all play Pokemon ?

You can't make those vague analogies because then why have RTS type of game and Simulation/Survival type of game if they are the same ? That's why there are categories. And you can't compare the learning processus of a RTS game and a simulation game.

11 minutes ago, Yucie said:

I also said nothing to the contrary.

Also you said you can't learn anything when it's simple.

12 minutes ago, Yucie said:

You sound bitter for the sake of being bitter.

I'm not. I'm just explaining my point and disagree with yours. Having a different opinion is not being bitter.

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Those seeds... i would probably going with a "accept a new dupe as soon as possible until you got up to 100 dupes"

That would mean i need almost the entire wateroutput the map provides for oxygen production, but i still need to feed them etc and since you get a new dupe every 3-4 days iirc it would mean i need to expand fast, and that can in turn give new challenges in unexpected, like how to conserve the icebiomes until a big enough farm can be established etc.

But that would be my playstyle on this map, not yours. You could just want to make the neverending base which reaches cycle 25.000 and i stand there: How can that dude survive for so long? ^^

There is not one winning route, not one way to do things and personally, i would like to invite everyone to play on the seed until the base dies (or the fun playing on this seed dies) and then just compare bases, how did everyone else that or that problem, what could i learn from that. And keep in mind that new ways are not superior or inferior to my your own ways, just different with an priority on different things OR you find like minded spirits that have the same priorities, who knows.

Now you can crucify me ;)

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I personally enjoy the exploration and random challenges presented when playing an unknown seed.  I did this for awhile, especially before the seed data was readily available.  But after spending two weeks building up a base on a random seed, and then discovering it had 0 NG geysers, and horrible vents/geysers in general, I started using hand-picked seeds.  The thing is, since it's a single player game, it makes absolutely no difference to anyone else how *I* enjoy playing the game.  I have over 2000 hours played, and I'm pretty sure my approach has not prevented me from being challenged and learning along the way.  To each their own I say.  Some people take this game way too seriously.

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Well, I haven't felt the need to post before, but...

 

I think it's important to remember that a) not everyone is as smart as you, and b) not everyone is 'smart' at the same things.  I constantly have to remind my more-intelligent-than-me brother and father of this.  You know people who don't know how to use computers?  Often they're afraid to even touch it, while I (and likely you) know that the real secret is to just poke things until it works.  What's easy for me is extremely difficult for them.  In ONI, I definitely feel like a 'them'.

While I don't think I'm an idiot exactly, I do know that the challenges in ONI are things that I am Not Good At.  Setting up a plumbed bathroom, even after watching videos of someone else doing it and understanding the general idea, continues to be a challenge for me, each and every time I do it.  The first time I overloaded a circuit, my eyes glazed over.  I had no idea what to do.  None.  I have barely even touched automation.  The logic gates are upsetting to me (and exciting to my genius brother).  Setting up an electrolyzer system?  Forget it.  I looked it up and copied it.

And then I made changes.  I looked up another one and tried that.  When my plumbing doesn't work, I have to look at it and try to figure out why.  I might have to start with copied designs and 'easy' set-ups, but that doesn't mean I'm not learning.  It means that I'm starting at a level well below yours.

I play both hand-picked seeds and random seeds, and they're both challenging for me.  Just because I find a cool slush geyser doesn't mean I know how to actually use it (as I discovered).  And since I'm not looking at maps when I'm looking at geyser types, exploration is still a fun challenge. And it's still interesting to uncover geysers, given that, just because I picked out the seed doesn't mean I actually remember what's in it.

It's not just that people play in different ways (which is true), but people learn in different ways too.  When I pick seeds, I'm looking for things that may be 'easy', but are still challenging for me because I still have tons to learn.  But that's just me.  Others might want to do it for other reasons.  Challenges, discovering new things, just having the things that they want to have to have fun,...  It's all legitimate. 

And at the end of the day, as Nitroturtle said, and as I learned after reading a long thread of arguing about whether resetting the day in Stardew Valley if you mess up is 'cheating' or not - It's a single player game.  Do what you want.  Just have fun, and don't worry if others are having fun in the way you think is right.

 

 

And for the record, I did play the Starcraft/Brood Wars campaigns with godmode on.  I mean, I was like 12.  But I did.  Don't judge me.

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12 hours ago, Yucie said:

Having an engineering mindset where challenge is the main draw is also why I don't bother with seeds. It's not just having the best POIs though, but also knowing what they are before starting the game. Using a seed removes all mystery and excitement when you find a POI and don't know what it is yet. Even if it's not the best POI or location, it's still fun to try and use it and even create designs that few would think of since it's often unwanted by most.

Your RTS "God Mode" comparison is more in line with debug though, in that it's usually used to test new ideas with little to impede you (or they suck really bad at games). The RTS comparison I'd go with would be 7v1 computer stomp games, which always results in fast wins where you learn absolutely nothing because you're never in any danger and rely on everyone to do the work for you (Such as using others designs instead of your own in ONI). Less ideal map seeds could be seen as 5v1 or 3v1 matches which are still easy but require slightly more player input. They were still remarkably popular with casuals though, who wanted a quick and easy way to kill 10 minutes per match and feel good about the "win".

If they get enjoyment out of remarkably easy games then that's great for them, but it does come at the cost of learning nothing as there's no challenge to facilitate learning. It's their loss, but to each their own.

Thing is the majority of geysers in this game are useless. The list of useable geysers is very small. If you actually do some calculations on them you'll find what you can achieve with them to be very dissapointing.

For example most polluted oxygen vents only produce enough average PO2 to feed 2 Pufts. CO2 geysers produce less CO2 than a single duplicant. etc...These geysers essentially just waste space on the map and get in the way of you building things, while providing no benefit.

So when you play on a random seed without checking whats there you've essentially chosen to play 'without' any useful geysers. Because the probability of getting a seed with useable geysers is so small. Which is fine if you want to challenge yourself, but it's something to keep in mind.

I also try to make sure the seed I'm playing on doesn't have indestructable ruins all over the place because they get in the way of my base designs.

Also to the people saying you don't learn anything from playing in a particular way...
you learn the most in sandbox / debug mode imo. Only way you can test out designs and refine them easily. Then you bring that knowledge into survival games.

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