The problem with the forge

[FluffyDoomMonster]

Before I begin I just want to say I love the Forge. I honestly prefer it over the Gorge, so it pains me that the problems with it (that were also prevalent last year) aren't being fixed this year.

1 bad team member can tank a whole run, and you can't do anything about it except quit. Do you know how annoying it is to have to quit not once, not twice, but 4 or more times in a row because you keep finding bad teams? I realized quiet a while ago that it is better to have a team of 5 than to have a team of 6, and one of those 6 be bad.

And I'm not talking about level 1-10 newbies who are just clueless. At least they are willing to listen and get better at the game. At least they understand the concept of teamwork. I'm talking about the trolls, or the players who just don't want to vibe with the rest of the team and throw a hissy fit because they as a Wilson think they should get the tanking armor.

I know some of you have made it to level 60 and haven't encountered this more than a couple of times, but I seem to be pulling the short straw here, because I've encountered this at least 3 times a day when I do try to play. So Klei, why haven't you made an option to kick! I am so tired of having to suggest that we just let the bad player die mid-match and we don't resurrect them because they refuse to listen to the rest of the team and grab everything that they aren't supposed to grab!

I get that a common argument here is the abuse of kicking, but if an entire team is kicking you, I think you dodged a bullet. Besides, I wouldn't want to play with a team of people who disliked me so I would voluntarily leave that server.

 

Also I know I could just password protect my server, but people don't seem to join password protected servers... And no I don't have many friends to pay with so I can't just play with friends.

[SneekyBerd]

I once had a problem when I joined normal lobby with very kind people , then 17th lvl came (It was clearly written that only 60+ lvls can come) we asked him to leave because we just want to play with more experienced players, but he kept saying "One mach" "Give me a chance" "I was 100 last year", and after couple of minutes he started swearing, insulting our families and telling that no body loves us and he hopes we will die in a big pain.

He also said that he won't leave until his death. So yea... 

[slendyproject]

27 minutes ago, SneekyBerd said:

I once had a problem when I joined normal lobby with very kind people , then 17th lvl came (It was clearly written that only 60+ lvls can come) we asked him to leave because we just want to play with more experienced players, but he kept saying "One mach" "Give me a chance" "I was 100 last year", and after couple of minutes he started swearing, insulting our families and telling that no body loves us and he hopes we will die in a big pain.

He also said that he won't leave until his death. So yea... 

You make it seem like this is something that happens only a few times. Literally every high level lobby is infested with these types of people. Sometimes i have to change lobbies for up to 20 minutes because theres a low level troll in every single one.

[inferjus4]

I do not play Forge that often because of how hard it is to find a server with players that can actually play and because of how rude and stupid Forge community is (tryhards only look at your level and tell you to quit no matter what you say and no matter how experienced you really are, and newbies usually even do not listen to more experienced players when they give them advices and are just throwing the game).

[Bleksmits]

kicking option i think will start roof riding parties after almost each unsuccessful ride. And very posible your trols will goo in groups from server to server and kick y just for fun...

[Lepeightl]

2 hours ago, FluffyDoomMonster said:

So Klei, why haven't you made an option to kick!

Because this just shoves the troll onto another server. Might solve the problem for you (given that the troll doesn't come back to haunt you for kicking them), but definitely not for the community as a whole.

Also, it comes with a bunch of side-affects, as you have also mentioned... but I won't repeat myself here.

2 hours ago, FluffyDoomMonster said:

Also I know I could just password protect my server, but people don't seem to join password protected servers...

Uhm... yes, they do? I almost exclusively play on password-protected servers, and have played the Forge with friends only twice so far. However, it sometimes takes 2 or 3 minutes until the lobby is full, and in my experience, many players are too impatient and leave the lobby prematurely.

[Fluffy animal]

3 hours ago, FluffyDoomMonster said:

Also I know I could just password protect my server, but people don't seem to join password protected servers... And no I don't have many friends to pay with so I can't just play with friends.

That's not true. Password protected servers are best servers you can play in starting from lvl... 30 I guess? I often see servers named like: "30+ pass ...". They become full pretty quick. Practice shows there's only a small possibility of meeting someone retarded if you join pass protected servers, or maybe I am just lucky 

[FluffyDoomMonster]

1 hour ago, Lepeightl said:

Uhm... yes, they do? I almost exclusively play on password-protected servers, and have played the Forge with friends only twice so far. However, it sometimes takes 2 or 3 minutes until the lobby is full, and in my experience, many players are too impatient and leave the lobby prematurely.

53 minutes ago, Fluffy animal said:

That's not true. Password protected servers are best servers you can play in starting from lvl... 30 I guess? I often see servers named like: "30+ pass ...". They become full pretty quick. Practice shows there's only a small possibility of meeting someone retarded if you join pass protected servers, or maybe I am just lucky 

I've tried this, maybe it was bad timing, but I had to wait 30+ minutes. Even though I was level 23 I managed to convince them to let me stay and over 30 minutes of 4-5 of us just sitting in a lobby. One person would leave, a few minutes later another would join, wait a bit, and leave...

[Well-met]

Really?

I thought the problem with forge was how woodie is gamebreakingly overpowered and Axe Chuck does literally everything needed.

[FluffyDoomMonster]

50 minutes ago, Hell-met said:

Really?

I thought the problem with forge was how woodie is gamebreakingly overpowered and Axe Chuck does literally everything needed.

Admittedly it would be nice if all characters were more viable.

[FreyaMaluk]

guys there are many ways u can find people to play with regardless of level

always create a server with a clear focus (learning, having fun, quests, wins, deathless, speedrunning. etc) and then introduce a level requirement. pass in the description. Always create wth pass to avoid random people joining via quick match.

if underleveled people join I wait.... if they say.. can I join? that gives me a good feeling we can work together cuz forge requires people willing to listen. if they don't say anything and are being absolute *******s.. then I simply let people know im creating a new one and then I leave. Trolls don't follow u ever and the people u want to play with might follow u there. Feeding trolls letting them taking over is just so draining that I decided just to leave and create a new one. IMO takes less time and less energy  

moreover, there are discord channels for people looking to play the forge on voice or simply to be way more coordinated. Here some of the group I know of:

Don't starve forever (germany) https://discord.gg/2MyUCj

DST EU https://discord.gg/FzGEWa

Don't Starve/Together (global)  https://discord.gg/dontstarve

Don't Starve Latinos (Latinamerica) https://steamcommunity.com/groups/dstlatinos?fbclid=IwAR1sdhviVHo1Qh8gPbIKxXkm77RdPbpu3wxpDdXoPifZb6RI2rxplayH18w

[FluffyDoomMonster]

@FreyaMaluk

And as I've said, it takes 30+ minutes for a password protected server to even get full. I would rather not wait 30 minutes to play.

[TemporaryMan]

Eh, it's hit and miss.  I've made passworded servers that filled up right away, and other times I shut them down because I was bored of sitting in the lobby.

[FreyaMaluk]

5 hours ago, FluffyDoomMonster said:

@FreyaMaluk

And as I've said, it takes 30+ minutes for a password protected server to even get full. I would rather not wait 30 minutes to play.

?? in my experienced that never take that much time.. but i guess that depends on level?

besides, the discord links might help u deal with less of those problems

[axxel]

There are many problems with the Forge. Playerbase-based problems are the worst, since you rely on your team. Best thing you can do: TALK. Talk to them if they can fulfill their roles. I still change to Woodie after we lose a match because people can destroy pretty much a run if they use Lucy too much, and in my experience pretty much everyone who joins a lobby and immediately choose Wilson/Willow/(Wendy) don't really know how other roles work and dislike playing these. Usually, if I join an almost full server, the only character to take is the Woodie. These people also loves group hugging in the very first round and leaving someone elsae alone and wait instead of helping, they choose an individual target in the first snortoise round - desaster happens when alle turtles become spinning bois- and like to press auto-target F instead of clicking, making the effort of petrifying enemies fruitless. Of course the best ones are crucial equipment stealer who fail to understand some roles need specific equipment or the team balance - like a Wilson who is the self-appointed healer of the group and refuses to give the staff to Wickerbottom, who is now locked to books. I bet these people have never experienced true tidiness and routine. They would go on the other side of the buffet instead joining the queque. Worst players are people with rapid fire mods who don't barely know about the Forge and fires at the second Boarrilla or creating about 4 spinning bois. It is important to fix the issue of rapid fire and attack-canceling...it's an exploit. Leaderboards are filled with exploit users.

I try to provide some constructive critic and suggestions here to avoid some of these dilemma. Character quests are good to try out different characters but I had to neglect them because of above stated reasons ( I played as Woodie 80% of the time I believe). But if noone can carry the team as Woodie I stuck at some quests. Problem is, a good Woodie is the safest tactic to survive. So I provide other people XP instead of myself, which is a huge bummer because people expect from the last person joining the server to be the runner. Truth is, either Woodie is too good (but you need some knowledge about running and tanking) or "running" itself falls under scrappy mechanic. "Running" itself is only ...useful/necessary.. for the Boarilla rounds where it is incredible easy to distract one Boarilla, especially with Lucy. I think running should be non-magical version of the important crowd control. However, the book mages and the life staff contribute much better to crowd control in terms of speed and safety. This makes running duties in early phases and during the last bosses needless. How to counter this?

Klei should realize that Lucy throw is to good for running and tanking. A little practice and you can stop Boarriors attack for several seconds or you draw all the heat for your teammates whose shoot the thing to death. The "aggressive counter" if you chuck Lucy on Bosses if they do nothing isn't really punishing. I think increasing the CD of Lucy throw would help stop him to stop attacks. Woodie+Lucy have a better auto attack speed - if you have paid attention he draws more aggro due that which already makes him a good tank on his own. IMO Woodie should be nerfed.

Crowd Control: Petrify + Sleep make the early waves a cake walk. I think the enemy-setup is too predictable (and of course if the team plays as a team) and the CD of magic spells are too short. Every army has a support, Pugna should spawn one or more support mobs/banners during the Snortoise/Scorpiions wave which can uhm block magics/specials? Come on Klei, people went deaf if they are bored haha. We need a pendant to the Crocomander that debuffs us!

Scrappy Characters; Wendy because Abby is not viable,Wes because Woodie is a better runner, and the whole healer debate. Abigal needs a buff since we are not fighting stunlockable spiders or give Wendy an extra perk to make it up.. Wes perks are made for a runner, Woodie should deserve a debuff and give us pesky stuff to pull from the team. I think Winona is fine as she is as she can switch between weapons, but imo spells could get more cd time to balance their already good effect.

Items: I wonder why Klei locks character to specific weaons but not armor (classified in weights). This could be solution of armor thieves, Otherwise, an item to buff reving would be nice or the woven garland could increase the reviving HP. What I am missing are character specific items. I mean Wigfrid is the only character that spawns with her spear and spawns the Spiral spear, Maybe other characters should spawn specific items to make them more viable?

 

Wowee what  long text 

[TemporaryMan]

2 hours ago, axxel said:

Items: I wonder why Klei locks character to specific weaons but not armor (classified in weights). This could be solution of armor thieves, Otherwise, an item to buff reving would be nice or the woven garland could increase the reviving HP. What I am missing are character specific items. I mean Wigfrid is the only character that spawns with her spear and spawns the Spiral spear, Maybe other characters should spawn specific items to make them more viable?

But if armor was character-restricted, we'd lose the ability to do all-Wendy and all-Willow matches.

[Atkvin]

I feel like there is another pressing issue, around the character meta and the achievement system of Reforge.

The way Klei added armors that didn't really affect the meta, didn't really tweak the non-meta character's perks, or even add bosses that might have forced players to reconsider their rigid meta... it felt like they deliberately wanted to leave this status quo of a character meta, while still providing tools and allowing those who liked off-meta characters to experiment and play as they liked.

I personally thought this was fine - it might be too much work reworking each character to be equally playable especially against new bosses, and the characters can essentially serve as a built-in hard mode of the Forge. The first problem lies in the fact that Forge is a very team-based game and your choosing of difficulty will weigh down on your entire team - leading to discouragement of playing those heroes and instead sticking with the very established year-old meta to win and get lootboxes and boast cred.

These two problems are interconnected. The new achievement system replaced the old one that was a smooth-running system.

The new system of achievements doesn't encourage and incentivize playing off-meta characters enough. In the past, when Forge first came out, this long to-do list was the first thing that greeted you before you could start a game. I remember that urge to give every character a try and get out of simply playing the same class or character all day, in order to get all my achievements done. It wasn't just because the Forge was new - many would have been intimidated off the ping-intensive role of healers and runners if not for the achievements or maybe just stuck with their DST main completely. The DST group I'd even joined to play Forge with was super awesome, and thinking back on it now, it was endearing doing runs to help each other get achievements for characters - characters that we might never have even tried before and giving each other tips on those roles.

While I agree the old system may not have been the best for replayability, especially in the event's second year, it rewarded that 'hard-mode' that was built into the unbalanced character meta of the Forge, and served as a way to introduce players into going out of comfort zones to get achievements done.

The old system gave players justified reasons to play off-meta - everyone wants to get those achievements. It feels good to help others get those achievements and then perhaps take your turn to do yours the next game, or get boasting rights pulling off a harder game. There is a greater reason to play these off-meta characters beyond the few limited, random, difficult and buggy achievements we have now, or simply because 'I felt like it' or 'I main this character in DST'.

The solution? I don't see why the two systems couldn't simply co-exist and give (especially new) players that boost of confidence entering / going back into the Forge while having the replayability of an additional, separate system that generated a few new character achievements like the one we have now, with a few more slots a cycle to favor those off-meta characters.

[Majestix]

I really don't understand this obsession people have with the idea that every character should be equally good or equally useful or somehow balanced. What is wrong with having challenge characters? My friends and I have had a blast beating the game with 6 Weses or with 6 Wendys or with random charcaters, etc. Is an achievement only an "achievement" if it gives you in-game xp? Then any such event eventually gets used up, you just run through the boxes and tick each one of them. Set yourself your own goals and try to reach them. It feels great to pull off a no-deaths run with an all-random cast, regardless of whether that gives you official xp in the game - much more satisfying that having used 4 specials in 20 seconds as Wilson.

[CrimXane]

On 11/25/2018 at 12:49 AM, Lepeightl said:

Because this just shoves the troll onto another server. Might solve the problem for you (given that the troll doesn't come back to haunt you for kicking them), but definitely not for the community as a whole.

Also, it comes with a bunch of side-affects, as you have also mentioned... but I won't repeat myself here.

Uhm... yes, they do? I almost exclusively play on password-protected servers, and have played the Forge with friends only twice so far. However, it sometimes takes 2 or 3 minutes until the lobby is full, and in my experience, many players are too impatient and leave the lobby prematurely.

honestly, i couldn't careless 
they can keep kicking that troll as long as they prefer im not playing with TOXIC and overall annoying little 9yrs and waste 2 hours of my time because they don't listen.

every single pass-worded server will be a (lvl)+ server and will not start when u join 1 level short
and u can sit in the lobby for a long time
i once waited 30 mins just to get a full.