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Mr.Mulk

Anim Cancelling: Too Much of a Good Thing?

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CrazyMoeMew    83
On 2018/11/23 at 7:05 PM, Terra M Welch said:

I just hope klei resets the leaderboards so we don't see a list of chinese macroers anymore.

Unfortunately also, It's the Chinese first asked Klei to fix this exploit.

It's a most welcome fix as we expect to which will end the malignant competition of the leaderboard.

But I don't think put a equality between Chinese and the Cheating Scripts User is a wise choice. Without that scripts we can also finish Boarrior before 10:30. So we don't fear any competition especially by manually conduct run. 

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eXiGe    45

@GCC.1st @CrazyMoeMew That truly is some good **** right there. Never mind that last year your team was begging for strats / calling us cheaters.

14 minute runs until we uploaded a video and you copied everything we did. Even on this years top boarrior run, you needed the exact same character composition, 2 new OP armors, and full blown scripts to beat last years time by a mere 18 seconds. Never mind that you needed a week to do it. Sure, you caught us last year playing with some ****-tier inconsistent macros, but so did you, you just didn't turn lag compensation off so your Maxwell walked too much. We were already on top, well above everyone doing low 11s when we started playing with said macros. Hell, we even did an 11:26 with ZERO animation canceling and it wasn't even a good run.

To think, I have said to people your team would still be on top even without the scripts, I won't bother anymore. If you think you were 1st over us last year, where the hell does that put you this year? No where.

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GlassArrow    107

So you're first place if you don't count first place. Ok then. I will admit that we used a single target macro last year, but that was after we had already well established ourselves on top because WE had NO competition. Thus we used an external macro to try to get a sub 10, it saved us a whopping 30 seconds max and that's even pushing it because the real time saver is multi-target which was all done legit. Although, I do remember your team accusing us of hacking to get the times we were getting so we shared a video to help you guys out and you took our strats and drastically started to improve your time and yet you still don't count us as a legit team. I guess we shouldn't have shared that video with you, who knows where you would be without it though.

We knew this year was going to be full of cheaters because we already knew that it could be exploited and we hoped that Klei would listen to our warnings. We had long discussions prior to this years forge about speedrunning this year and what we would do if other teams started to abuse the exploit; Do we out cheat them or just not speedrun since being on top would not mean you are the better team? As you can tell we chose the latter and haven't had any real attempts at speedruns this year.

As this years forge started it was nice to see your team back and was waiting to see if you guys could beat our time, but it wasn't until all the new items were released that you finally beat our time and I was happy to see that it had been improved on until someone showed me your run. It was clear that scripts were being used and that, as we feared, the leaderboard was full of invalid runs.

Even after this, I still said you guys were a good team and corrected anyone telling me that "my team was the best" to "one of the best" and explaining to them there was more to runs than single target macros. However, as time went on, it became apparent that other scripts were being used that made single targeting look pale in comparison. Even so, I still said you guys were legit and weren't using scripts, but after seeing your post, I now no longer respect your team because you are trying use us as scapegoats for using an external macro to "be on the leaderboard." Like I said before, our inconsistent script saved us about 30 seconds to get us the sub 10; we were already well above everyone including your team (and we weren't the only team using it ;)). This year however, you are using scripts to stay on top, scripts that are far more time saving and pretty much plays the game for you.

People aren't discriminating you because you are Chinese, they are discriminating you because you are using these scripts and you have seemingly been using these scripts. As far as we know, these scripts originated from Chinese teams. Is it discrimination if there is solid proof that Chinese teams have been using private scripts? No, it's not. I know that not all Chinese players cheat, but this is what happens when a small group of players take advantage of exploits to be the "best." It sounds to me like you are upset that your status up top is ruined by this "cheating" plague. Just remember YOU chose to use these scripts to be on top of the leaderboard so you can't be mad at others for judging you.

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beeker23    1

in the top speedrun there is only difference of seconds there are Russians and the United States too, I do not think that only Chinese use macros

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CrazyMoeMew    83
8 hours ago, eXiGe said:

To think, I have said to people your team would still be on top even without the scripts, I won't bother anymore. If you think you were 1st over us last year, where the hell does that put you this year? No where.

I never said we were the last year's 1st. And I never said your guys were not a legit team. How did you reach that conclusion?  

I had post a topic to explain this last year. see below: 

You guys were last years' champion that is without any question even in my team and my Chinese game group. 

But you said We copied your team's everything that's ridiculous. The videos showed that there are too many differences between the tactics. 

Our videos last year:

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av16922037

Your team record last year:

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av17053320

The only thing that we admit we learnt from you guys is the Woodie's tactics to handle the mid-range slam of Boarrior. And that tactics I think it belongs to TShaw and his team only(see last years topic). Even my topic of Woodie tactics in Chinese Reddit had mentioned your team: 

https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5947654171

So how can you reach the conclusion that we never counted your team a legit team? 

Yes I asked you guys to learn how to deal with Boarrior, at least we have courage to admit that. But beyond that, all the charge of our teams copied your team's strategy has not any sense. How can you think we were so stupid to even calculate a real strategy with so few mobs on the ground? 

Last year We didn't have much time to try, We didn't try Willow to instead Maxwell last year, it was because when we knew there was a leaderboard and there were only less than 2 weeks left to us. And I can assure you that we did't use any so called scripts last year and it had evidence to prove it. 

I personally admired your work last year. But to the anim cancel macros stuff, I also think it's you guys who shifted them from all manually canceling to the extra program assistance level or even the DST mod level. 

 

That's all the histroy of last years forge I think. 

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eXiGe    45
10 hours ago, GCC.1st said:

So you think we Chinese can't beat you without scripts? That's so funnnnnnnnnnnny.

Last year, except for Bill's team (Bill, GlassArrow, T Shaw Killer, etc), we got the first place on the leaderboard,  we did not use any scripts/macros but Bill's team used.

So why you discriminate against Chinese people so much?

Last year, except for Bill's team (Bill, GlassArrow, T Shaw Killer, etc), we got the first place on the leaderboard,  we did not use any scripts/macros but Bill's team used. Why didn't you blame them then? People around the world are using scripts.

I reached that conclusion based on your teammates statement which I have conveniently quoted for you since you forgot reading / liking his post.

The run which you copied was our day 1 release of the forge, the same character composition exactly, which you kept using til the end of last years forge. Here is the video to refresh your memory. 

We learned that wasn't the best and adapted strategies as the forge played out. You didn't, not until this year in which you used our composition again except for wolf / wx. I guess it was too hard for you to figure out mighty. We did watch your run last year, and it was the same inconsistent single target macro. You can try your best to pass the blame to us, but you were doing the same last year and well beyond that this year. You called for Klei to fix this? So did we. They didn't. What was your course of action? You exploited it further. We on the other hand, decided it wasn't worth abusing the exploit even tho we knew full well how easy it was even before the forge ended last year.

And btw, it was never "T Shaw's team". He was just the one that uploaded the videos for our team, which consisted of GlassArrow, T Shaw Killer, Faraday, NotBill, Kilimepie, and myself. Along with several other people that routinely played with us.

As for proof of you not using macros, you have no more than we do, just videos of your runs. Regardless, I think you have made very clear at what levels you are willing to go to this year.

PS I do remember you adding me last year randomly with your old account, I denied your request since I didn't know you and you also had a VAC ban on that account. Makes sense now.

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CrazyMoeMew    83
3 hours ago, GlassArrow said:

People aren't discriminating you because you are Chinese, they are discriminating you because you are using these scripts and you have seemingly been using these scripts. As far as we know, these scripts originated from Chinese teams. Is it discrimination if there is solid proof that Chinese teams have been using private scripts? No, it's not. I know that not all Chinese players cheat, but this is what happens when a small group of players take advantage of exploits to be the "best." It sounds to me like you are upset that your status up top is ruined by this "cheating" plague. Just remember YOU chose to use these scripts to be on top of the leaderboard so you can't be mad at others for judging you.

Let's talk about the Forge this year. 

First thing first, WE ARE NOT THE FIRST TEAM USING SCRIPTS. 

The Boarilla leaderboard. We did it all by manually. You can see the time are all 'normal'.

The Boarrior leaderboard. We just did the same thing you guys had done last year. 

The Rhinocebros leaderboard. We used multi-target scripts. It's because some team of our country used them first and we got the evidence and reported it to Klei: 

The truth is almost every team on the leaderboard have cheated this year. The only diff is some did it extremely some are not. 

We don't think the macro tech is everything, but some Chinese bastards think it is, even on today. We thought it's time to have a lesson for all of us, both the Klei Official and The DST players. So we built a private mod to improve the multi-target canceling. And you can see the result. Klei fixed it. 

If we don't want that exploit fixed, there won't be that topic. 

Even through, You can't reach 9:22 only by taking advantage of the multi-target scripts. It took us days to improve the strategies of all possible characters arrangements.  

The 9:22 Rhinocebros is a living proof to break their dream who thought the macros are everything. And it's also the best record to force Klei to fix this exploit to avoid the malignant competition. 

But seriously please, don't equal the Script cheaters to the Chinese. there's no sense to equal them. We don't want a word cheater add with another word Chinese. Just like you don't want to be called cheater last year. 

 

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CrazyMoeMew    83
12 minutes ago, eXiGe said:

The run which you copied was our day 1 release of the forge, the same character composition exactly, which you kept using til the end of last years forge. Here is the video to refresh your memory. 

34 minutes ago, eXiGe said:

I guess it was too hard for you to figure out mighty.

It sounds like that all the teams who played Maxwell for speedrun was copying you guys. Over arrogant? SMH~ 

We chose Maxwell because it's really faster than Willow after the snortoise wave. All the comparisons are between a dart before the snortoise and a shadow guard of passive of Maxwell after the snortoise. You can do some calculation and you will find how better Maxwell is better than Willow after the Boarilla. 

We can't reach that speed you guys did was mostly because we don't use multi-targets. This is the truth you can't deny. 

37 minutes ago, eXiGe said:

PS I do remember you adding me last year randomly with your old account, I denied your request since I didn't know you and you also had a VAC ban on that account. Makes sense now.

I never added your team members on steam and my steam account never got VAC ban. 

 

40 minutes ago, eXiGe said:

And btw, it was never "T Shaw's team". He was just the one that uploaded the videos for our team, which consisted of GlassArrow, T Shaw Killer, Faraday, NotBill, Kilimepie, and myself. Along with several other people that routinely played with us.

I don't mean that he is the leader. I don't know your team in detail. It's only a pronoun to refer your team. 

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eXiGe    45
42 minutes ago, CrazyMoeMew said:

It sounds like that all the teams who played Maxwell for speedrun was copying you guys. Over arrogant? SMH~ 

We chose Maxwell because it's really faster than Willow after the snortoise wave. All the comparisons are between a dart before the snortoise and a shadow guard of passive of Maxwell after the snortoise. You can do some calculation and you will find how better Maxwell is better than Willow after the Boarilla. 

We can't reach that speed you guys did was mostly because we don't use multi-targets. This is the truth you can't deny. 

I never added your team members on steam and my steam account never got VAC ban.

If Maxwell is so good, why aren't you still using him? Rounds are even longer now, more time for him to out-damage willow.

He wasn't good then and he isn't now. I am glad we could finally show you the way yet again on that matter.

Why would you not use multi-target? It was the most legit way to get speed, and we wished they had found a way to keep that while getting rid of single target. Up until the mods were released that did multi-target for you anyway, zzz.

Anyway, Klei can remove the leaderboards for this year and last for all I care. Its not like we gained anything from it. No one saw the effort put into the runs, just "OMG rapid fire, how you do it?". So by all means, if you want to pass all the blame on us for this ****, go for it. We found the line we wouldn't cross to compete for the boards, when will you find your line? As it is, you justified your behavior with "SOMEONE ELSE DID IT FIRST". Pathetic.

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CrazyMoeMew    83
52 minutes ago, eXiGe said:

Pathetic.

I agree with you in some kinds of way. People won't remember the real tactics of speedrun but the speed itself. 

And I don't mean to pass the blame on your team. I only drew the detail of how it developing to the fact today. After all It's Klei's fault to put a leaderboard without more carefulness of players' malignant competition. 

I have explaint so many times in this forums that the game with a goddamn leaderboard have no fair at all. The Gorge is neither. 

Maybe they won't care about fairness so much as I expected. Competition means more players' attention. 30K Players were playing at the beginning of Forge. What will be more important than that? LOL 

(maybe they just think: wow, why so many Chinese pumpkins are playing and my servers are overloading... 

As I said EVEN Klei checks the resource completeness on every time the game start and forbid the client-side mod during the events, the problem won't be solve fundamentally. The hacker can hook the exe and fake the network packet. 

So just be happy that at least we have a together event and a together game to play. 

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Mr.Mulk    1,113

Dang I just wanted a thread talking about the removal of anim cancelling kek I didn't mean to start a war.

Well, it seems like nothings going to be done about it nor are we going to get a response, so I'd probably just accept the reality of the situation now. Unfortunately, the patch has helped scripters have an even greater edge over normal people and the combat has been dumbed down with the exploit removed. I get that it really was an exploit but man was it a happy accident, it's a shame it's gone now.

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Fidooop    2,583

The fact that Klei STILL hasn't responded to this is incredibly sad. I guess everyone's just going to have to make scripts in order to compete now because raw skill won't compare on the leaderboards anymore. v( '-'  )v

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fimmatek    2,716
2 hours ago, Fidooop said:

I guess everyone's just going to have to make scripts in order to compete now because raw skill won't compare on the leaderboards anymore. v( '-'  )v

Or just simply ignore the leaderboards. Honestly, if it neither measures players' skills, nor is there any kind of revard for it, why should I care who is the first and whether I'm on it?

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axxel    699
14 hours ago, fimmatek said:

Or just simply ignore the leaderboards. Honestly, if it neither measures players' skills, nor is there any kind of revard for it, why should I care who is the first and whether I'm on it?

Leaderboards are now the Halls of Shame. Seriously, if people still want to be the best even by openly using exploits+macros, they now deserve to be on these leaderboards now. Come on guys, this should be a fun event with friendly rivalry, but this is getting rather nasty.

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ScottHansen    1,252

Unfortunately, the leaderboards did not work out as intended. We have decided to replace them with a Hall of Fame of teams who have beaten the Infernal Swineclops with no deaths. Each team can earn one entry per day.
The old leaderboards will be archived shortly and no longer be updated.

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Leonardo Cox    434

Sorry the leaderboards didn't go as planned, but major thanks for listening to the community and trying to help resolve this cheating issue. I honestly expected such things to not be addressed until next year's forge(?) at the very least. I really appreciate Klei for doing stuff like this when so many other devs would just never address things like this or not go out of their way to fix it on such a short notice..

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Mr.Mulk    1,113
1 hour ago, ScottHansen said:

Unfortunately, the leaderboards did not work out as intended. We have decided to replace them with a Hall of Fame of teams who have beaten the Infernal Swineclops with no deaths. Each team can earn one entry per day.
The old leaderboards will be archived shortly and no longer be updated.

It means a lot to me genuinely that someone would respond. I'm glad you guys took the time to read through this and do at least something about the issue, so kudos to Klei for that.

Hopefully this means that we can have anim cancelling for normal people brought back as now the incentive to script it has been removed. That'd be absolutely perfect!

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Fidooop    2,583
6 hours ago, Mr.Mulk said:

Hopefully this means that we can have anim cancelling for normal people brought back as now the incentive to script it has been removed. That'd be absolutely perfect!

I second this greatly! PLEASE return anim canceling as it made the Forge actually fun to play rather than "hold F to win"

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troloform    24
16 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

Unfortunately, the leaderboards did not work out as intended. We have decided to replace them with a Hall of Fame of teams who have beaten the Infernal Swineclops with no deaths. Each team can earn one entry per day.
The old leaderboards will be archived shortly and no longer be updated.

Why was it necessary to close the leaderboard? What's the point of this? Whom got better after that? On the leaderboard there are still teams with scripts. Or did you do it to protect the nerves of the noobs? For two weeks my team and I trained speedrun for 10 hours a day. We did this not for reward, but for sporting interest. Yesterday we tested a new tactic that would allow us to get first place. You are very mean. 
@ScottHansen

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orian34    534

Sportmanship has been lost when it became a contest of scripts.

What for example would say that your team doesn't use scripts for that new tactic? I'm not saying that you would, but that because of the precedent, no one can cleanly come on the top. The sporting spirit has been broken for speed, which is why they tried to change it to a feat that is requiring a decent amount of skill, regardless of script usage.

And I fully support that change.(not like I even understand why people are so strung up on being better than the others)

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troloform    24
On 28.11.2018 at 6:54 AM, ScottHansen said:

replace them with a Hall of Fame

Now the leaderboard is better (no).
Mediocre development.

image.png.19baa2c6a9631ca9c57781a5e5ff653e.png

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Bleksmits    128
21 hours ago, troloform said:

Or did you do it to protect the nerves of the noobs?

Yes i am noobie casual player, thanks to Klei they saved my nerves, now i can sleep well.

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FantineAz    63
On 2018/11/28 at 6:54 AM, ScottHansen said:

Unfortunately, the leaderboards did not work out as intended. We have decided to replace them with a Hall of Fame of teams who have beaten the Infernal Swineclops with no deaths. Each team can earn one entry per day.
The old leaderboards will be archived shortly and no longer be updated.

...so does that mean we can get our anim cancelling again?

(Honestly I've never achieved that on single enemy _(:3J∠)_ , but attacking by multi-click really brought a whole lot of fun when using long-ranged weapon. I feel the same as @Mr.Mulk, really sad to see it removed:cold:

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Atkvin    408
1 hour ago, FantineAz said:

Honestly I've never achieved that on single enemy _(:3J∠)_ , but attacking by multi-click really brought a whole lot of fun when using long-ranged weapon.

I believe for singletarget you would inch forward again and again to cancel the shooting animation with the walking animation. Funny to watch but a bit riskier moving yourself towards a target compared to simply clicking between two.

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