Cheating Forge

[Apchi]

It was okay while people used to use fast clicking on two targets or interrupt animations with moving. It was a feature. Now it's more like cheating. They won't ever get the same results on leader boards without these scripts\mods. I see a lot of people using those cheating scripts on public servers and now it's not so fun playing there anymore; when you know that it's just a program playing instead of real players. 

I'm disappointed. Would like that Klei would disable possibility to interrupt animations on server side codes.

It's just my opinion and it will never happen, but whatever...

[Leonardo Cox]

2 hours ago, Apchi said:

It was okay while people used to use fast clicking on two targets or interrupt animations with moving. It was a feature. Now it's more like cheating. They won't ever get the same results on leader boards without these scripts\mods. I see a lot of people using those cheating scripts on public servers and now it's not so fun playing there anymore; when you know that it's just a program playing instead of real players. 

I'm disappointed. Would like that Klei would disable possibility to interrupt animations on server side codes.

It's just my opinion and it will never happen, but whatever...

They apparently just patched anim-cancelling or made it much worse.

[Djcloud84]

Yeah its not cheating, just making it easier. 

Less hands-on if you will

[FreyaMaluk]

lol.... ty klei xD

On 11/19/2018 at 6:15 AM, gznc said:

I am "Cheating Forge" author.

Banning my mod is useless.

One day ultra-rapid fire still alive, mods, scripts, macros which runs it will still pollute the game.

u were saying? xD

[CossonWool]

In a way it's sad to see animation cancelling be nerfed so much  

Last year it was a skill thing, then quickly a macro thing, then this year mods. Even as a mod it was something extra you had to know about to do, and imo it added to the forge. Everyone had access to the mod and it's still called a cheat as if it's something to be frowned on, even the publisher's named it cheat. I don't see any viewpoint other than a modless, purist point of view that it should be viewed so negatively.

Now there's almost no advantage to animation cancelling, the mod has a small error rate with attacks and given how little time is saved I'm not sure it adds up anymore. Manual animation cancelling probably lowers dps now. I might as well go back to having my finger fall off holding f.

[Maxposting]

just put a small rock on your local F button.

[Leonardo Cox]

37 minutes ago, CossonWool said:

In a way it's sad to see animation cancelling be nerfed so much  

Last year it was a skill thing, then quickly a macro thing, then this year mods. Even as a mod it was something extra you had to know about to do, and imo it added to the forge. Everyone had access to the mod and it's still called a cheat as if it's something to be frowned on, even the publisher's named it cheat. I don't see any viewpoint other than a modless, purist point of view that it should be viewed so negatively.

Now there's almost no advantage to animation cancelling, the mod has a small error rate with attacks and given how little time is saved I'm not sure it adds up anymore. Manual animation cancelling probably lowers dps now. I might as well go back to having my finger fall off holding f.

I am hearing that its still possible and this is how it works now: If you anim-cancel before the projectile hits, it does no damage. Meaning that if you get in the mob's faces, you can still anim-cancel but its effectiveness is now ranged based and will be much much harder to pull off manually now if the mobs aren't in the same distance from you.

I'm in the boat that it was never really cheating (at least manually, and even then in a previous post I made, I was pretty fine with scripts themselves) but I'm fine with this change. It might just be me but anim-cancelling manually wasn't particularly enjoyable for me and I personally wanted to avoid DPS because of it and I'm sure people will be happy if this does end up leveling the playing field for people who don't want to use scripts for speedrunning. Thats not to say that it doesn't suck in some areas like you mentioned in your post and I'm sure some people will be upset for those same reasons and will be justified in feeling so, but I'm personally happy that Klei did attempt something rather than just doing nothing at all.      

[FreyaMaluk]

u can still do rapid fire... but not as fast as before... same with multi target... now its about player skill... no scrips...

to be quite honest... scripts are just broken.. also the mod... you didn't even have to pres f.. just f1-5... how can that be ok? like doing nothing and attacking rapid fire?

to be quite honest... rapid fire doesn't make a party... it's team work... I hope to see more of that instead of just people non strategically aggroing everything cuz they wanna have a screenie with the most dmg

10 minutes ago, Leonardo Cox said:

I am hearing that its still possible and this is how it works now: If you anim-cancel before the projectile hits, it does no damage. Meaning that if you get in the mob's faces, you can still anim-cancel but its effectiveness is now ranged based and will be much much harder to pull off manually now if the mobs aren't in the same distance from you.

I'm in the boat that it was never really cheating (at least manually, and even then in a previous post I made, I was pretty fine with scripts themselves) but I'm fine with this change. It might just be me but anim-cancelling manually wasn't particularly enjoyable for me and I personally wanted to avoid DPS because of it and I'm sure people will be happy if this does end up leveling the playing field for people who don't want to use scripts for speedrunning. Thats not to say that it doesn't suck in some areas like you mentioned in your post and I'm sure some people will be upset for those same reasons and will be justified in feeling so, but I'm personally happy that Klei did attempt something rather than just doing nothing at all.      

this is not true... the rate of fire has changed but can still do it

[Leonardo Cox]

2 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

this is not true... the rate of fire has changed but can still do it

you should probably read my post again. I said its still possible.

[FreyaMaluk]

5 minutes ago, Leonardo Cox said:

you should probably read my post again. I said its still possible.

 

8 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Meaning that if you get in the mob's faces, you can still anim-cancel but its effectiveness is now ranged based

i meant that

i was pretty far away doing it.. no problem on single target

now multitarget was pretty much always close if you did it manually... so i dont think this has changed too much

[cezarica]

A few pages ago I saw comments regarding other mods like Geo Placement, minimap, and so on, so needless to say that those are client side mostly and barely have any impact in the game for other players.

Using this on the other hand quickly helped a hand full of people to reach the top 10 from what I understand with basically doing nothing than pressing some keys to automatically do stuff for them.

Saw a few claims that if everyone would have access to the same advantage then things would be fair. No, not at all. Let's look at things from a different perspective. A guy has tools to open other people doors and can get inside and rob them while they are away. Would it be ok if you would have the same tools, or at least something similar, to do the same job? On the contrary, you would want that guy punished for his deeds, not encourage others to do the same thing.

Apart the bragging rights I know there's nothing for top teams, but having top teams that most likely cheated their way to the top is a stain on the even itself. Well, I'm glad Klei did something in the right direction so kudos for that. My only "regret" it that I wish they done something last year so this year's top teams wouldn't have been so plagued with about the same people that where most likely using scripts to gain an advantage over others, basically denying other people the right to be in the top by doing a clean fight.

Anyway, good luck everyone with next boss that's around the corner.

[Mr.Mulk]

I agree that letting people use scripts to do it automatically is bad. However instead of ruining a mechanic which gave an extra layer of depth to the game's combat they could have just removed the offending mods, enable an anti-cheat to look for scripts on their servers, or even just disabled the unnecessary clientside mods for forge altogether.

[Leonardo Cox]

37 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

 

i meant that

i was pretty far away doing it.. no problem on single target

now multitarget was pretty much always close if you did it manually... so i dont think this has changed too much

When I say anim-canceling I was referring to multi-targeting. Sorry that I used the wrong term.

[Tranoze]

On 11/21/2018 at 4:07 AM, Flydo said:

I don't think you quite understood what i mean, I mean some programmer can create real bot that can do a lot better than this "mod"

If they are intelligent enough to do it, let them. Not all people skillful in clicking, or having an insane gaming mouse. So you expect you have better clicking skill than programmer then you must play better? people make machines so they can do the job easier for them, as any game. You think making mods and bots are easy? No, they require much more time to practice and learning than playing a single game. They even need to calculate every single even occur in the game to make the bot perfectly to do so. There are nothing wrong about that.

Gun are cheating compare to sword. So sword fighter complains and die. The author of this mod just give a gun, not a powerful gun to every players, so they can somewhat fight back. It cant fight against tank, which is cheating compare to gun, but somewhat better than fighting a tank with a sword.

Life doesnt work well with people has much body flexible. It work well with people has brain. If you wanna fight them, learn how to program and create a better mod. They can stand still and let the game play because they spent weeks of coding and testing their mods. Thinks smart.

Cheaters are only people download other people's scripts and use it. They didnt spend hard time working and coding to make that scripts, so that can be consider cheaters, and that the only reason why this mod should not be exist in store. But the author already named the mod "cheating" so anyone downloaded it already know they are cheaters. Only them, not the author of the mod or any other rankers make mod on their own.

2 hours ago, Mr.Mulk said:

I agree that letting people use scripts to do it automatically is bad. However instead of ruining a mechanic which gave an extra layer of depth to the game's combat they could have just removed the offending mods, enable an anti-cheat to look for scripts on their servers, or even just disabled the unnecessary clientside mods for forge altogether.

disable all mod doesnt work, especially with an open source game (you can literally read every single code in the game), and there are no "unnecessary mod", either disable all the mods, or allow them, and even disable all still will does nothings against moder because there are nothing klei hide from them in the game codes, including all the check sum codes.

Dont think coding is easy, it a deadly battle field, that why klei cant do anything. All their code are open, so either be a modder or die like an amateur.

[thistownneedsguns]

even glermz is using this cheating mode on his stream while 700 people are watching him and klei even hosts him frequently. its hilarious. 

[FreyaMaluk]

5 hours ago, Tranoze said:

If they are intelligent enough to do it, let them. Not all people skillful in clicking, or having an insane gaming mouse. So you expect you have better clicking skill than programmer then you must play better? people make machines so they can do the job easier for them, as any game. You think making mods and bots are easy? No, they require much more time to practice and learning than playing a single game. They even need to calculate every single even occur in the game to make the bot perfectly to do so. There are nothing wrong about that.

Gun are cheating compare to sword. So sword fighter complains and die. The author of this mod just give a gun, not a powerful gun to every players, so they can somewhat fight back. It cant fight against tank, which is cheating compare to gun, but somewhat better than fighting a tank with a sword.

Life doesnt work well with people has much body flexible. It work well with people has brain. If you wanna fight them, learn how to program and create a better mod. They can stand still and let the game play because they spent weeks of coding and testing their mods. Thinks smart.

Cheaters are only people download other people's scripts and use it. They didnt spend hard time working and coding to make that scripts, so that can be consider cheaters, and that the only reason why this mod should not be exist in store. But the author already named the mod "cheating" so anyone downloaded it already know they are cheaters. Only them, not the author of the mod or any other rankers make mod on their own.

disable all mod doesnt work, especially with an open source game (you can literally read every single code in the game), and there are no "unnecessary mod", either disable all the mods, or allow them, and even disable all still will does nothings against moder because there are nothing klei hide from them in the game codes, including all the check sum codes.

Dont think coding is easy, it a deadly battle field, that why klei cant do anything. All their code are open, so either be a modder or die like an amateur.

your logic is:

coding requires time and effort.. then we should allow auto attack ultra rapid fire on command not even pressing F.. right xD

that coding requires time or not is not part of the game... the game should test gaming skill not coding...

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

your logic is:

coding requires time and effort.. then we should allow auto attack ultra rapid fire on command not even pressing F.. right xD

that coding requires time or not is not part of the game... the game should test gaming skill not coding...

Modding and coding is totally in the game and a part of the game. There are not so much game like DS/DST allow player to mod as much as them like, change as much as them want, read as much game code as them can.

If you want game that test fully game skill, play some FPS game, not this. The thing about DS is there are always another easy way to do things, but you have to work your brain out for it, not typical FPS game, and will never be. Make enemy fight each other. Mod for easier building or indicator stats. There are like 100 hidden features in the game you cant discover without reading game code or mod, everything is hidden, hp, attackspeed... 

Pro FPS gamer fight until boss die, solo. Modder check boss code, health, attack range and see any way to break through. Fast attack is one of the way we can break through in the forge, so why cant them use it. Only pro in both fields can do speedrun perfectly.

If modding is not a part of the game, why it has this

 

[FreyaMaluk]

7 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Modding and coding is totally in the game and a part of the game. There are not so much game like DS/DST allow player to mod as much as them like, change as much as them want, read as much game code as them can.

If you want game that test fully game skill, play some FPS game, not this. The thing about DS is there are always another easy way to do things, but you have to work your brain out for it, not typical FPS game, and will never be. Make enemy fight each other. Mod for easier building or indicator stats. There are like 100 hidden features in the game you cant discover without reading game code or mod, everything is hidden, hp, attackspeed... 

Pro FPS gamer fight until boss die, solo. Modder check boss code, health, attack range and see any way to break through. Fast attack is one of the way we can break through in the forge, so why cant them use it. Only pro in both fields can do speedrun perfectly.

If modding is not a part of the game, why it has this

 

that modding is allowed doesn't mean it's ok to allow broken mods to overtake the game specially if there are leaderboards...

dude.. I'm totally pro mods... but not if they break core mechanics in a competitive game mode.

u are defending modding simply cuz they take time.. and I get that.. but it's clear that Klei wants to test mechanical skil.. not coding expertise