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Serious Question: Why not only work on Don't Starve Together?


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I'm confused as to why only Don't Starve Together isn't developed on now that it's been completely released for a while. Instead of releasing DLCs that are for singleplayer only, there could be ones developed for DST where people can choose too player either offline OR online. I really don't mind if it'd take longer to develop DLC that works online, but its so disappointing that i can't play with others as i start to feel bored and lonely. Sure, modders will probably bring in parts of Hamlet, but they aren't the ones who can really make it the same as playing it on original Don't Starve. On top of that, it surely wouldn't be balanced if things were just brought in by modders. Now if Klei EVER plans on bringing it into DST, they have to worry about balancing and networking issues im guessing because of the several different places you can be in at once like ruins and caves. I'm sure that theres more usually playing DST except for when a new DLC releases on vanilla Dont Starve like it did recently, so there'd be more attention brought to the game i assume.

A little edit too:

I should of worded it differently as clearly they wouldn't stop development of DS for more than one reason. I seem to simply want them to put the same care they do in added content to DST like they do DS, and i've already stated why in this thread. Theres surely some game mechanics that would only work solo so when im forced to play DS I will like i am now, but i'd also like to see the same care to DST not in the form of events.

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Hamlet was more or less a bone being thrown to base game players ("If we didn't add any more to the base game you would complain"), there probably won't be another base game DLC.

(I don't mean for this to sound ungrateful since they did give out the DLC for free to a lot of people, I'm just saying it probably wouldn't exist without fans asking for more base game content.)

 

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DST and DS are two separate games and should be treated as such. Also there are a lot of mechanics that wouldn’t work. Running 3 servers(with caves) would be hard for most computers then there is pig ruins and the inside of houses and other thing that would mean you would have to run 10 servers at once which isn’t remotely possible.

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How can you say DST is not developed when it has already received and continues to receive tons of updates.

Basically I like don't starve at least 10 times more than together. Together is great in its own way but... it doesn't have ambience and feel original one had - a true roguelike experience where death means = death unless you prepared something beforehand. I like multiplayer games in general, but in terms of DST, game looses its charm for me. Instead of listening to wonderful music and enjoying atmosphere, I can only concentrate on numbers and exploits. It's just nature of multiplayer games.

You can say that I can play DST alone. It's true but DST is marketed towards multiplayer experience and you can feel it in every aspect while playing game. Because of that, even though I can play DST alone, I won't be able to receive full satisfaction from it, unlike DS.

Don't get me wrong DST is great game. My point is that there are people who like DS much more, including me. And I am really glad that developers at Kley still haven't forgotten about DS and are releasing updates for it.

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27 minutes ago, FeNniX said:

How can you say DST is not developed when it has already received and continues to receive tons of updates.

Basically I like don't starve at least 10 times more than together. Together is great in its own way but... it doesn't have ambience and feel original one had - a true roguelike experience where death means = death unless you prepared something beforehand. I like multiplayer games in general, but in terms of DST, game looses its charm for me. Instead of listening to wonderful music and enjoying atmosphere, I can only concentrate on numbers and exploits. It's just nature of multiplayer games.

You can say that I can play DST alone. It's true but DST is marketed towards multiplayer experience and you can feel it in every aspect while playing game. Because of that, even though I can play DST alone, I won't be able to receive full satisfaction from it, unlike DS.

Don't get me wrong DST is great game. My point is that there are people who like DS much more, including me. And I am really glad that developers at Kley still haven't forgotten about DS and are releasing updates for it.

Didn't say it wasn't developed, but to only focus on working on DST now since you can literally play it solo like you want, or multiplayer. I've experienced little difference between the 2 games besides being alone 24/7 instead of playing with others or friends. But since it's only on Don't Starve Vanilla, it can ONLY be played solo and not enjoyed with others.

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10 minutes ago, Null1314 said:

Didn't say it wasn't developed, but to only focus on working on DST now since you can literally play it solo like you want, or multiplayer. I've experienced little difference between the 2 games besides being alone 24/7 instead of playing with others or friends. But since it's only on Don't Starve Vanilla, it can ONLY be played solo and not enjoyed with others.

Do you play DST solo?  I know you can do that, but when I played with one of my kids, there was a lag that I found frustrating (not sure how to explain it.)  On another forum, players reported there is always a lag when playing DST, which is why I haven't pursued it.  I have also heard it's extremely difficult to finish tasks alone.  Sounds like there is so much different content on DST, however, which makes it so intriguing.  

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38 minutes ago, ucw said:

Do you play DST solo?  I know you can do that, but when I played with one of my kids, there was a lag that I found frustrating (not sure how to explain it.)  On another forum, players reported there is always a lag when playing DST, which is why I haven't pursued it.  I have also heard it's extremely difficult to finish tasks alone.  Sounds like there is so much different content on DST, however, which makes it so intriguing.  

In DST, there is a small lag on the people joining the server (the host doesnt have any lag). The lag is only noticeable when fighting or picking up items. There will be a half second delay between the action and the regular game. Removing movement predictions in options can reduce the lag but bring other issues that are worst in my opinion. The only big negative is in fighting really. If you are a really good fighter, you know exactly how to kite perfectly and how many hit you can give, with this delay, you will be able to hit 1 time less on average to "stay safe". The game is definitely easy to adjust to (by striking enemy once less) but its more challenging for bosses etc that will take a lot longer to kill since 1 hit less is a lot if you need to hit him 20x3, it becomes 30x2.

 

Every now and then enemies will group up and push each other like in single player, but with the small extra lag, it can cause enemies to hit you when they seem they can't.

 

TO OP:
Both games are separate, DST was purely created out of players begging for it for years. DST then became the more updated version with less bugs. The development was mostly done for don't starve original a long time ago. To my knowledge, Klei gave the assets of Don't starve to a different company (CAPY) to work on DLC (shipwreck) and most likely did the same for Hamlet.(EDIT: The game was made by Klei actually, but most likely used DS original assets like Shipwreck does) Hamlet will likely be the last Don't Starve we get since as previously mentioned, its mostly the hardcore fans asking for more and more and klei just being godlike and providing :)

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Having played DST solo, I only wish all the DST content was ported over to DS for single player experience.

The separate servers (and simplifications that come with that like single-level ruins), anti-griefing mechanics (Bearger nerfs D:<), different handling of death, lack of world-hopping with Things and lack of world hopping with xWorthys, need for mods to get stuff like Pause or reasonable monster HP... all that and more will always make me prefer single player DS.

I just wish the bosses (Bee Queen, Toadstool, Fuelweaver), marble quest, meteors, lava, juicy berry bushes (cause variety is always cool) etc. were introduced into DS and I'd be happy with it.

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49 minutes ago, Ellilea said:

Having played DST solo, I only wish all the DST content was ported over to DS for single player experience.

The separate servers (and simplifications that come with that like single-level ruins), anti-griefing mechanics (Bearger nerfs D:<), different handling of death, lack of world-hopping with Things and lack of world hopping with xWorthys, need for mods to get stuff like Pause or reasonable monster HP... all that and more will always make me prefer single player DS.

I just wish the bosses (Bee Queen, Toadstool, Fuelweaver), marble quest, meteors, lava, juicy berry bushes (cause variety is always cool) etc. were introduced into DS and I'd be happy with it.

I can't agree more -- would love all the cool things from DST included in DS solo.  

 

Edit: but I still love DS.  

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59 minutes ago, ucw said:

I can't agree more -- would love all the cool things from DST included in DS solo.  

 

Edit: but I still love DS.  

Since the code is all written and the models all done, couldn't Klei do it potentially? I mean, it's not like those are the things people buy DST for, they buy it for MPlayer. It would only make us solitary nerds happy :rolleyes:

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10 minutes ago, Ellilea said:

Since the code is all written and the models all done, couldn't Klei do it potentially? I mean, it's not like those are the things people buy DST for, they buy it for MPlayer. It would only make us solitary nerds happy :rolleyes:

I don't know enough about the tech side of game design to know if it's possible.  Would probably need to be tweaked quite a bit, but perhaps they could sell it as another DLC.  

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31 minutes ago, ucw said:

I don't know enough about the tech side of game design to know if it's possible.  Would probably need to be tweaked quite a bit, but perhaps they could sell it as another DLC.  

Take my monies, Klei!

The less mods I feel inclined to use the safer the better the grander. And DST to DS DLC would spare me a nice few! :)

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According to SteamDB, for the past three months, Don't Starve has averaged about 2,000 people playing it EVERY DAY. It's lowest play-by-date was just before Hamlet went into beta, with slightly above 1,500 players on a Wednesday. Weekends show bigger spikes in activity, with roughly 2,500 people playing pre-Hamlet and anywhere from 3,000-5,000 post-Hamlet.  


Don't Starve always has huge spikes in activity when DLC is released, which shows there's still an avid player base just patiently waiting in the background for new content. When Reign of Giants was released in 2014, on PC and then ported to PS4 and other consoles during 2014/2015, player counts grew as high as 16,000 at times. When Shipwrecked was released in late 2015 (post-DST release), players were as high as 8,000.  


It's not exactly a dead game that no one cares about, and there's plenty of us still playing. Sure, DST numbers are higher, but that's expected due to it being multiplayer - the numbers will be double or triple just as a baseline.


Plenty of us don't play DST beyond events or a one-off weekend with friends. DST is a totally different experience than Don't Starve, with reworked bosses and characters and world mechanics, and an emphasis on roles within a group. I rarely have interest in multiplayer games, and I have zero desire to play DST alone... if I want to play alone, I'll come back to Don't Starve.


Don't Starve is over 5 years old. It was in alpha/beta in 2012, and released to early access in 2013. The game sold over a million copies its first year, basically catapulting Klei into the big leagues of indie game companies. DST wouldn't exist without it. They're not gonna just shove the game to a back shelf somewhere to collect dust. As time goes on and sales drop and they develop new games, sure, it won't be viable to put new development into it and instead it will be "bug fixes only".   


But that time isn't now. While the active number of players has gone down over time, that's very normal as a game ages - even World of Warcraft, with Blizzard/Activision $billions$ behind it, loses about 10% of their active subscribers each year. Back in 2013 and 2014, pre-RoG, the number of active players of Don't Starve averaged around 3,000 - a 30% loss of players on a 5 year old game is acceptable, LOL. There's still a core group of people playing, and even more come back when Klei adds content, so there's no reason for them to stop working on this game and devote all their resources to another. 

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5 hours ago, Ellilea said:

I just wish the bosses (Bee Queen, Toadstool, Fuelweaver), marble quest, meteors, lava, juicy berry bushes (cause variety is always cool) etc. were introduced into DS and I'd be happy with it.

 

There's mods for some of these! First and foremost, check out this guy's workshop for several DST ports: https://steamcommunity.com/id/drblood1995/myworkshopfiles/?appid=219740

 

And here's a few others that I like:

Meteors: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1149991222

(Sometimes that one is buggy for me, and gets rid of all my rocky biomes... it's hit-or-miss. So what I do is disable it during world gen, then quit and re-enable it, and use the commands in the description to manually place my meteor showers in an appropriate place the mosaic biome)

Mushroom Farms: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1149991222

Signs for Chests: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1120313136

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I've been using this fella's mods in the past indeed, but sadly, they are no longer supported and mostly incomplete when it comes to boss fights. I think Toadstool has barely any mechanics - it never spawned in my worlds though.

Though it has been kinda fun/challenging to deal with the Bee Queen mod's hive splitting giving kind of a soft-cap impending-doom when configured right. If I didn't destroy all the beehives on the map by that time, I'd soon be overrun with the gods damned giant hives and they would lag my game :D

I'd still really like it if Klei implemented all those things into DS in their own way with their own code. That way they'd be reliable and much less likely to misfire.

Maybe I should start a "KLEI PLS" topic about it lol.

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I've tried to say before that giving DS the big in-game updates like Hamlet and Shipwrecked and not DST is a mistake as more people will naturally go towards the multiplayer version. And since there has been hardly any in game updates to the scale DS has received that people become bored eventually. Events are limited AND are separate from the actual game so it doesn't help exactly revive the game. People will join to play the event but after it will die back down again because it's not an actual update like Hamlet. Everything becomes routine and has been for a long time in game because DST hasn't received any big updates for a very long time, even the caves update was already in the base game so it's not like that was "new". Since there's no new content people will always become bored of doing the same thing over and over figuring out the best way to do things as nothing changes. Im very confused why they yet again still added DLC to DS and not DST. I've heard arguments where they don't want to alienate the people who prefer or only have DS, but come on, you can play DST solo and it's quite cheap to be brutally honest. The in-game differences of the games aren't many, it doesn't take long to get used to the minor usual lag when switching over to DST as I've played both and experience LITTLE to no differences. I believe if they'd spent all this time working on a new big update like Hamlet that instead for DST that it would be nearing completion, as I figure theyd need a bit more time to develop a multiplayer one for balancing and networking reasons. However, I don't think almost anyone would mind the DLCs taking a little longer to make if we simply got them on DST instead like I wouldn't. Making a DLC for DS further splits the playerbase and alienates it more than adding one to DST as more play DST even when a new DLC hits like it has now. Regardless of DS receiving Hamlet, DST STILL manages to get A LOT more players, so tell me how not caring about DS anymore would affect many players? So, once again the bigger concurrent player base of DST is left with the same old content they've had for a very long time with some minor changes here and there. And the update that just hit is simply and event that does nothing for base DST. I seriously hope they only focus on DST or it will certainly lose more players as they feel neglected and bored over time from the same song as the solo-only DS gets updated instead.

Its honestly funny how people here are saying that they still want more content to be added to DS when DST has by far less content overall, but sure, you are surely helping Klei by begging for all the good content on the game that pulls severely less players than DST.

Also DLC added to DST could either be behind a paywall like it is in DS, but it would simply have an icon on the servers menu that shows you can't join it unless you have *this* DLC, so you'd still all be playing the same game, but if you want to play on certain servers then you can pay a REALLY LOW amount of money to do so. On top of that, Klei literally gave the DLC out free to everyone who played in the beta at all so i wouldn't put it past them to make it free since DST pulls tons more players in the first place. 

YOU look at the steam charts for both DS and DST and tell me which amount of players are a priority to cater to and NOT in the form of events but actual base in-game content.

https://steamcharts.com/app/219740

https://steamcharts.com/app/322330

On 11/9/2018 at 9:03 AM, cannonball 594 said:

DST and DS are two separate games and should be treated as such. Also there are a lot of mechanics that wouldn’t work. Running 3 servers(with caves) would be hard for most computers then there is pig ruins and the inside of houses and other thing that would mean you would have to run 10 servers at once which isn’t remotely possible.

Ok, and im not even saying that Hamlet itself should be on DST, but that DLC should of been developed that WOULD work on DST. Instead, we have yet another DLC that has very low chances of seeing DST just like Shipwrecked so far.

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if they added a DLC then anyone who didn't have it suddenly couldn't play half(or probably more like 90%)  of the servers then if they added a 3rd then the servers would be so split you couldn't play online without DLC and that's just EA stupid.

and DST single player isn't even playable without mods because the bosses and items are made for multiplayer, i mean seriously if klei cant even balance the bosses for single person play how do you expect me to play DST over DS.

just because its older doesn't mean its obselete or dated, if anything DST is the lesser version and just because you want to do things with other people doesn't mean that it should be added to DST. I would perfer they added things the the less laggy and more balanced game than to the one that was only made because people begged for it.

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here's downsides for me when i wanna play DST solo:

1.i need to start running server of my own to play it which eats up more resources.

2.i need to download mod to simply pause the game.

3.there's no shipwrecked (and now hamlet too) in DST.

4.there's many mods for DS that aren't avalaible for DST and at this point it's almost impossible for me to have good experience with vanilla DS or DST so i need em mods.

here's downsides when i wanna play DS online:

1.there isn't online and all's said, i need to turn to DST :D

 

so imho there can't be just DS or DST, that's why devs support both.

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On 11/9/2018 at 8:35 AM, Null1314 said:

I'm confused as to why only Don't Starve Together isn't developed on now that it's been completely released for a while. Instead of releasing DLCs that are for singleplayer only, there could be ones developed for DST where people can choose too player either offline OR online. I really don't mind if it'd take longer to develop DLC that works online, but its so disappointing that i can't play with others as i start to feel bored and lonely. Sure, modders will probably bring in parts of Hamlet, but they aren't the ones who can really make it the same as playing it on original Don't Starve. On top of that, it surely wouldn't be balanced if things were just brought in by modders. Now if Klei EVER plans on bringing it into DST, they have to worry about balancing and networking issues im guessing because of the several different places you can be in at once like ruins and caves. I'm sure that theres more usually playing DST except for when a new DLC releases on vanilla Dont Starve like it did recently, so there'd be more attention brought to the game i assume.

First and foremost, Don’t Starve Together has much more features than Don’t Starve. Second of all let me point something out, Don’t Starve Together has a lot of changes from Don’t Starve you probably don’t even know about. Take the Dragonfly for example, in Don’t Starve it has about 3000 - 4000 health. In Don’t Starve Together it has 27,000. Now explain to me how a solo player in Don’t Starve Together is supposed to kill a 27,000 hp boss by him/herself. You can’t argue that “you can play it solo” as a valid excuse to neglect Don’t Starve all Together, the two games are completely different with different values and other things like that. A solo player shouldn’t be forced to fight harder bosses and put in twice the work. You have Don’t Starve Together for multiplayer, and Don’t Starve for single player. That’s the way it should be. 

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DST is a lot harder for one person to play. It is literally meant to be played by multiple people. The bosses are a lot harder, all mobs in general are stronger, it can't be paused, and if no one else is on you only have limited time to get to a touchstone if you die. Yes, you can play it single player, but that is not a valid excuse to neglect the single player version. I typically stick to single player because the only person I have to play with is my sister who can't always play with me and I don't like playing with complete strangers.

It's not like DST is a remake of DS. Both are still being worked on. DS is not a dead game, thousands of people still play it. On top of that, I'm certain releasing single player DLCs is pretty profitable because of how many still play the game, even though they are fairly cheap. It's not like they're going to stop working on DST just because they added a new DLC to DS.

I dislike playing games with other people and prefer to play by myself - I have to be in the right mood to even play DST with people I know. As I mentioned before that is hard in DST. It is most fair for the developers to work on both games - that way both sides get new content and both sides are happy.

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I think it's a good thing for DS and DST to be developed separately. DST is a great game but its necessity as a multiplayer focused game does restrict a lot of elements they could otherwise have in it if they put all their resources into it. With singleplayer DS they can do wild and more creative/ambitious things that, if they turns out to be awesome, they can later work into DST.

 

Hell, can you guys just imagine how awesome DST would be with a lot of Hamlet's features? It's not an "if" we'll see it someday, but a when. Klei may or may not do this themselves, but you can bet an official unofficial fan mod will years down the line. Thus both DS and DST will have benefited from Hamlet's existence beforehand which wouldn't had been enjoyed if they were bound develop DST alone.

 

Wouldn't surprise me though if someday they find way to integrate the launcher instead of being two separate programs.  (i.e. the game behaves identically to DS if you're on a private locked or local server by yourself)

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How about no really getting sick of every game being forced to have online play if I want to play an online game I will I love DS and was miffed when it was abandoned for bit for DST though I like it too and I'm glad to see Klei still cares for the players that helped them to get the base game off the ground not sure why you don't think they can't work on both at the same time don't worry though this is likely the last bone they will throw the original players of the game for long while so don't worry they'll stop adding to Hamlet soon enough and focus on DST mostly for a while if not for good.

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A Don't Starve DLC or update that includes all the mechanics and new content from Don't Starve Together would be much appriciated.
Things such as a ghost form. (Limited timer before the world ends, perhaps a way to forcefully die and enter ghost mode without a timer)
Better cave generation with open spaces with lots of light.
-Smoldering
-Resource variants
-Atrium
-Beefalo riding
-Moon stone
-You name it.

I play alone and hosting a local server puts allot of strain on my pc, which Don't Starve does not.

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