Septic System V3 (10kg/s 26C water and 400g/s dirt)

[Neotuck]

1 hour ago, crypticorb said:

Edit: or use it for LOX! LOX systems don't give two hoots about how polluted or infected oxygen is.

I have done LOX with morbs before

main thing is I'm looking for a low power alternative for O2 production and LOX uses a lot

also LOX is mainly for rockets now and the amount of LOX you get from morbs or infected vents is hardly worth it

Well anyways I made a build for cleaning infected vents and 5 morbs

Should work however the germ pipe sensor is bugged.  It maintains the signal of the last packet that flows though without resetting to default (Time to submit a bug report)

[crypticorb]

7 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

Very nice @hpongledd

did a quick test in debug with your idea, took a few minutes to flush the germs out of the pipes once the system was primed but once it was It maintained 10kg/s

Well done 

I just hooked it up too, it's laughably simple.

I'm trying to think of failure conditions that would need to be accounted for, and the only one I can see is if you don't have those reservoirs completely full, the germs don't sit in the reservoirs long enough to cleanse. This failure condition would have to be accounted for whenever the germy water source stops (water geyser dormancy).

If all possible failure conditions are accounted for, I'll probably switch over to this system @Neotuck. He's right that it's waaaay simpler to build, and any possible simpler system is better in long term games.

1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

Should work however the germ pipe sensor is bugged.  It maintains the signal of the last packet that flows though without resetting to default (Time to submit a bug report)

I haven't seen this bug myself, but I always set a true condition for germ sensors when they detect below 1 germ, and this has never resulted in a germy packet getting past.

Is it possible this bug is due to the detection of empty pipes? The status of an empty pipe is technically unknown, though it should read 0 germs. I know pipe temperature sensors are odd, as they read -273.6 on an empty pipe, which is wrong.

[Neotuck]

15 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

I haven't seen this bug myself, but I always set a true condition for germ sensors when they detect below 1 germ, and this has never resulted in a germy packet getting past.

Is it possible this bug is due to the detection of empty pipes? The status of an empty pipe is technically unknown, though it should read 0 germs. I know pipe temperature sensors are odd, as they read -273.6 on an empty pipe, which is wrong.

I don't have this problem with liquid pipe sensors so must be a bug

17 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

I'm trying to think of failure conditions that would need to be accounted for, and the only one I can see is if you don't have those reservoirs completely full, the germs don't sit in the reservoirs long enough to cleanse. This failure condition would have to be accounted for whenever the germy water source stops (water geyser dormancy).

An easy fix, use a hydro sensor in the germy water tank by the liquid pump

when the water is too low the signal stops the pump and turns off a liquid shutoff valve at the end of the reservoirs so they don't empty while the pump is off

[crypticorb]

1 hour ago, Neotuck said:

An easy fix, use a hydro sensor in the germy water tank by the liquid pump

when the water is too low the signal stops the pump and turns off a liquid shutoff valve at the end of the reservoirs so they don't empty while the pump is off

I'm not 100% sure why, but after putting 5 reservoirs in series, bathed in chlorine, pumping in germy polluted water will always be germ-free on the other side. Since food poisoning in warm polluted water will always normalize to about 5,000,000 germs per tile, I painted in 6 million to be sure, and none got through. The 4th reservoir would occasionally have 0-500 germs, and the last reservoir would never have any.

I tested it with the output of germy polluted water sieved into clean water (a realistic test) and there was never any germs past the 3rd reservoir. The only failure condition was when the source of water was cut off and all the reservoirs started to empty, and when the source of germs started again, they would pass through to the output, but a simple cutoff solved this.

[Neotuck]

I'm still sulking my V3 design has now has become obsolete 

but it happens, I move on...

[crypticorb]

Just now, Neotuck said:

I'm still sulking my V3 design has now has become obsolete 

but it happens, I move on...

Sorry Neotuck! I've made my fair share of interesting designs that were made obsolete or useless by either lag or a better design.

Part of the whole reason I post my ideas is to get others posting their ideas, which are sometimes infinitely better.

[crypticorb]

@Neotuck I've figured out how this new setup works.

When adding new liquid into a reservoir, it averages all aspects of the liquid incoming with the liquid contained, and the liquid outgoing is also the average of all the contents.

In the last reservoir, the germs entering are less than 1000 per 10kg, and the entire reservoir contains 5000kg of germ-free water. When a single packet of 10kg enters and adds that 1000 germs to the entirety of the reservoir, it averages out to 0.2 germs/kg, which is less than one.

When the reservoir attempts to output a single 10kg packet of water, it can't send a fractional germ out, so it rounds to zero. I proved this by upping the amount of germs flowing in slowly until there were 5000 germs per 10kg flowing into the last reservoir, and only then did it pass germs on to the next reservoir.

So long as the germs flowing are less than 5000/10kg, and you maintain full reservoirs, the reservoirs will never pass any germs onwards. Here's my latest and most simplified version of @hpongledd's setup, with a zero-flow shutoff and germ safety feedback:

[hpongledd]

2 hours ago, crypticorb said:

@Neotuck I've figured out how this new setup works.

When adding new liquid into a reservoir, it averages all aspects of the liquid incoming with the liquid contained, and the liquid outgoing is also the average of all the contents.

In the last reservoir, the germs entering are less than 1000 per 10kg, and the entire reservoir contains 5000kg of germ-free water. When a single packet of 10kg enters and adds that 1000 germs to the entirety of the reservoir, it averages out to 0.2 germs/kg, which is less than one.

When the reservoir attempts to output a single 10kg packet of water, it can't send a fractional germ out, so it rounds to zero. I proved this by upping the amount of germs flowing in slowly until there were 5000 germs per 10kg flowing into the last reservoir, and only then did it pass germs on to the next reservoir.

So long as the germs flowing are less than 5000/10kg, and you maintain full reservoirs, the reservoirs will never pass any germs onwards. Here's my latest and most simplified version of @hpongledd's setup, with a zero-flow shutoff and germ safety feedback:

looks lovely. Thanks for the upgrade

[Gaons]

On 10/11/2018 at 5:52 AM, mckzchi said:

I am quite confused about how germ sensors work. After the last packet of water has passed through the sensor, there should be no more germs. I have set my sensor to "Activate above 100 (for example)" but the sensor remains active even though there are no packets of water left with germs? 

Hi @mckzchi, you got this trouble using mods? i'm having the same issue, have you managed to solve it?

[ONIfreak]

On 11/8/2018 at 4:27 AM, Saturnus said:

You could cool it down to about 0C with a couple of aquatuners. That should clear the germs.

I wouldn't do that. i had the same idea and dropped huge pool of germy PW to cold biome. Right now after 40 cycles water is on -8.2 (the lowest one) and still has few hundred thousands germs on it. Germs live in temp -20/+75 if i remember correctly so anything outside of these bracket just gives you % to kill. Mine is on 40% die each cycle. 

dropping water to cold biome is good from saving water perspective. And temp management. All water gets cold really quickly and you do not loose water from digging out snow/ice - it just get melted. 

[Saturnus]

On 24/12/2018 at 12:23 PM, ONIfreak said:

I wouldn't do that. i had the same idea and dropped huge pool of germy PW to cold biome. Right now after 40 cycles water is on -8.2 (the lowest one) and still has few hundred thousands germs on it. Germs live in temp -20/+75 if i remember correctly so anything outside of these bracket just gives you % to kill. Mine is on 40% die each cycle. 

Yes, I corrected that in a later post if you bothered to read on. The point were slimelung died used to be 5C.

[ONIfreak]

18 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Yes, I corrected that in a later post if you bothered to read on. The point were slimelung died used to be 5C.

Oh didn't read that far, but if you did then i fully agree with you. It was good idea but not practical and too slow.

[hacksaw12]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 11:08 AM, Neotuck said:

The on on the right is difficult to build without visco-gel as each packet of liquid needs to be 10g.  The gap forces dupes to jump so they won't be inside the lock while exhaling (Jumping also prevents soggy feet)

For the two deep water lock, what are the visco-gel numbers? And do you still need 3 liquids? I've been using these without visco-gel, and they are a bear to build in survival, but wonderful when done. Never had one break.

[Yunru]

All you need is 12 water tanks, 12 mechanised airlocks, 12 automation bridges, 1 NOT gate, and a bit of automation wire for a relatively simple build.

Two columns of six tanks lets the water sit for 2 and a half days minimum.

It's by far the simplest, but definitely not the most compact.

[stretch611]

I have actually noticed that germy water inside a liquid reservoir actually kills germs regardless of the atmosphere it is in. You do not need to surround it with chlorine. In fact I have actually put the liquid reservoir inside a pool of germ filled water and the water inside the reservoir continued to kill germs. The only thing that seems to stop the process of killing germs is letting more germs in with additional liquid.

As for the automation, I use nothing more than a liquid shutoff valve attached to a clock sensor.

However, I do admit, that I have not tested it against a liquid reservoir inside a chlorine chamber to see if that kills the germs any quicker.

[Neotuck]

1 hour ago, stretch611 said:

I have actually noticed that germy water inside a liquid reservoir actually kills germs regardless of the atmosphere it is in. You do not need to surround it with chlorine. In fact I have actually put the liquid reservoir inside a pool of germ filled water and the water inside the reservoir continued to kill germs. The only thing that seems to stop the process of killing germs is letting more germs in with additional liquid.

As for the automation, I use nothing more than a liquid shutoff valve attached to a clock sensor.

However, I do admit, that I have not tested it against a liquid reservoir inside a chlorine chamber to see if that kills the germs any quicker.

clean water has the same effect on food poisoning germ as clean oxygen has with slimelung germs, the germs will die off but very slowly

2 hours ago, hacksaw12 said:

For the two deep water lock

Which one? both are two deep

2 hours ago, hacksaw12 said:

what are the visco-gel numbers?

Visco-gel stacks up every 100kg

2 hours ago, hacksaw12 said:

And do you still need 3 liquids?

Nether uses 3 liquids, the one on the left uses 2 liquids while the one on the right uses 4

[hacksaw12]

4 hours ago, Neotuck said:

Which one? both are two deep.

Neither uses 3 liquids, the one on the left uses 2 while the one on the right uses 4

Only interested in the jump thru lock on the right. If you use visco-gel, how much, and how many liquids should be stacked. I assume you put the visco-gel on top. I have been using crude oil, petroleum and water on the jump thru, why would you use a fourth liquid? I thought I remembered either you, @Saturnus or @Kabrute suggesting this, and it's been working fine.

[Kabrute]

I think @Neotuck had more to do with that than me

[Neotuck]

49 minutes ago, hacksaw12 said:

Only interested in the jump thru lock on the right. If you use visco-gel, how much, and how many liquids should be stacked. I assume you put the visco-gel on top. I have been using crude oil, petroleum and water on the jump thru, why would you use a fourth liquid? I thought I remembered either you, @Saturnus or @Kabrute suggesting this, and it's been working fine.

visco-gel stacks on itself

you don't need other liquids

Just now, Neotuck said:

why would you use a fourth liquid?

it needs to be 4 tiles high, two to jump though and two deep to prevent dupes from standing in the bottom

If a dupe is running for the airlock due to being out of breath it will stop inside the lock to catch their breath, the CO2 it emits will break the lock, having a two tile deep hole to jump over prevents this

[hacksaw12]

47 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

visco-gel stacks on itself

you don't need other liquids

it needs to be 4 tiles high, two to jump though and two deep to prevent dupes from standing in the bottom

If a dupe is running for the airlock due to being out of breath it will stop inside the lock to catch their breath, the CO2 it emits will break the lock, having a two tile deep hole to jump over prevents this

Four tiles high, 3 liquids, but I see how you could use less liquid by using 4 liquids. So I could have made this with 400 kg of visco-gel?

[Neotuck]

47 minutes ago, hacksaw12 said:

So I could have made this with 400 kg of visco-gel?

yes

[Neotuck]

or 300.1kg visco-gel, the top layer doesn't need to be a full 100kg to touch the ceiling 

 

[Arcus2611]

On 11/7/2018 at 9:14 AM, Neotuck said:

---------------------------- Simple Septic System-------------------------

For those who don't have infected polluted water geysers then you only need this simple setup for disinfecting germy PW from your bathrooms

All you need is a germ sensor to open the door when germs pass though

The buffer gate keeps the door open for 140s ensuring all germs are dead before the tank empties

So I tried building this, but then I ran into the issue that the upper germ sensor stays toggled on after the last packet of PW passes through it, meaning that the door doesn't close. That is to say, you need either a smaller packet (since that won't trip the sensor) or a sterile water packet to pass through and toggle the sensor off. The other problem I foresee is that if the input gets backed up (because the reservoir is full), then the system fails because now there's a packet of germy water causing the germ sensor to stay on permanently.

 

Another issue is that that the buffer gets reset every time a dupe uses the toilet for whatever reason, which can lead to the same problem of the reservoir never getting to output.

[Gaons]

23 minutes ago, Arcus2611 said:

So I tried building this, but then I ran into the issue that the upper germ sensor stays toggled on after the last packet of PW passes through it, meaning that the door doesn't close. That is to say, you need either a smaller packet (since that won't trip the sensor) or a sterile water packet to pass through and toggle the sensor off. The other problem I foresee is that if the input gets backed up (because the reservoir is full), then the system fails because now there's a packet of germy water causing the germ sensor to stay on permanently.

 

Hi! I had the same problem, The solution I found most convenient was setting some showers to the same system. The non-germy water from shower makes the germ sensor off. =)

[Arcus2611]

38 minutes ago, Gaons said:

Hi! I had the same problem, The solution I found most convenient was setting some showers to the same system. The non-germy water from shower makes the germ sensor off. =)

I already had my showers in the same loop.

 

I've been playing with the idea of using a pipe element sensor instead of a germ sensor, under the assumption that any incoming water is either non-sterile or overflow from the output (in which case you might as well disable the reservoir for a bit).