Cooling Aquatuners

[grossbeer]

Hi fellow Asteroiddwellers,

Im pretty far in the game and want to develop a system which cools my aquatuners. I know i dont need to cool them due to thm not overheating, but it feels like exploiting a bug.

Usually my aquatuner cooling setups would include 2 AT which produce a lot of heat. The aim is to keep them under 90 C so that the water they are submerged in wont boil. I figured that using weezeworts for that and cool hydrogen would be ideal for that, even if gasses dont transfer heat that well (because of the 1000g limit in pipes). My questions for this lil project:

1. How much weezeworts would i need to cool down 2 AT which run all the time.

2. How far down can weezeworts cool hydrogen?

As the AT wont really run ALL the time i must watch the temp of the hydrogen (or whatever gas i will use for cooling) because i dont want the liquid they are submerged in to freeze. Another way would be to build tempshift plates instead of the cooling liquid so i dont have to worry about freezing the tuners. The question here would be can the liquid in the tuners ineract with the surrounding evironment when using exclusivly abyssal insulationg pipes?

Thx in advance for any tips.

[Djoums]

Assuming you're cooling water, each aquatuner displaces 585kW of heat at max rate (4.179*10000*14). A wheezewort deletes 12kW of heat when in hydrogen, so for 2 aquatuners you'd need almost 100 wheezeworts. Unless your aquatuners barely ever run, wheezeworts are not the way to go.

Wheezeworts wil stop cooling under -60°C naturally.

[Soulwind]

???

Aquatuners are supposed to get hot, that's what they are designed for, to move heat from one medium to another.

Now, you may need to keep their surrounding coolant (where they are dumping that heat, i.e. the PWater pool) cooled

enough to avoid evaporation [unless that's your goal].

For myself, I just run the Hot PWater either through a sieve and carbon skimmer [turning it back into 40C and putting it back in the pool]

or I send it to my pepper farm and make new PWater.

[PhailRaptor]

The only way to keep Aquatuners cool is to replace the coolant over time.  For most people, this means (ab)using the fixed temp output of the Water Sieve or the Carbon Skimmer to reset the hot coolant back to 40 C.  This is significantly easier now with the Reservoir structure, as you can make the coolant and Sieve a closed system.  Your only possible source of loss in that scenario is off-gasing of the P-H2O, which can be avoided by simply leaving no room for P-O2 to form above the water line.

[BlueLance]

Out of curiosity, is heat lost or generated when water becomes steam? If it is lost do you think that using hydrogen to condense 1 tonne per tile of steam is possible?

As soon as it condenses it would have to go through the whole thing again. which mean it will evaporate, losing energy and then condense repeating it. Dno if it is possible or not.

[Neotuck]

I just keep them submerged in pwater at the bottom of the tank were I collect all the pwater from my colony, never overheats

[Mullematsch]

This is my current baby 

 

 

Would I be better off having a different liquid than petroleum as my coolant in there?

I am never replacing it, only cooling it with wheezeworts.

Would I get more cooling out of them if I had the aquatuners in a liquid with a higher heat capacity? 

[thejams]

And this is mine, with maximum sustained cooling capacity equaling 48 Wheezewort, while using none 

P.S. yes it uses pwater, but it is perfectly balanced, as all things should be

[grossbeer]

hmm preparing for all the heat destruction to be removed in some other updates, how would one get rid of heat. 

As far as i can tell there are several ways to (unrealistily) remove heat:
- Water sieves

- Weezeworts

- Steam Turbines

A relatively realistic heat removal would be heating up some gas and then letting it get away into space.. right? such a system would be interesting. Using co2 for example would make sense....

What do you guys think?

[thejams]

Steam turbine is probably the most realistic heat removal in the game at the moment.  It does practicaly convert the heat to kinetic energy (moves the steam) and then converts it to electricity.  That one is for sure here to stay, but in order to remove the heat destruction elsewhere, they would also need to remove heat generation and all reactions would need to be absolutely balanced... that is not very likely to come.

TBH. I kinda like the current state of the heat game, it does require a good understanding and promotes creation of complex systems.

 

[Mullematsch]

27 minutes ago, grossbeer said:

hmm preparing for all the heat destruction to be removed in some other updates, how would one get rid of heat. 

As far as i can tell there are several ways to (unrealistily) remove heat:
- Water sieves

- Weezeworts

- Steam Turbines

A relatively realistic heat removal would be heating up some gas and then letting it get away into space.. right? such a system would be interesting. Using co2 for example would make sense....

What do you guys think?

You can also dump heat into oil or petroleum and use it in the oil refinery or petroleum generator. 

I like the current ways to "delete heat". Don't think heating up some gas and dumping it into space is any more interesting than what we are currently doing.

Seems kinda boring to be honest.

They might slightly increase the amount of liquid/gas of your geysers. You dump heat into whatever and dumb it into space... 

[crypticorb]

10 hours ago, BlueLance said:

Out of curiosity, is heat lost or generated when water becomes steam? If it is lost do you think that using hydrogen to condense 1 tonne per tile of steam is possible?

As soon as it condenses it would have to go through the whole thing again. which mean it will evaporate, losing energy and then condense repeating it. Dno if it is possible or not.

I remember seeing an experiment on this forums a while ago that theorized and demonstrated that pH2O has far higher specific heat capacity than it ought to. By boiling pH2O into steam, then cooling the steam with the pH2O to be boiled, a SIGNIFICANT amount of thermal energy was... lost? displaced? The sum amount of thermal energy contained by the resulting steam and dirt from boiled pH2O was far less than it should have been.

 

8 hours ago, grossbeer said:

hmm preparing for all the heat destruction to be removed in some other updates, how would one get rid of heat. 

As far as i can tell there are several ways to (unrealistily) remove heat:
- Water sieves

- Weezeworts

- Steam Turbines

A relatively realistic heat removal would be heating up some gas and then letting it get away into space.. right? such a system would be interesting. Using co2 for example would make sense....

What do you guys think?

How are steam turbines deleting heat? They convert energy, taking in thermal energy and converting it into electrical energy, assuming that they are using an alternator.

Releasing heated gas into space still isn't deleting heat, just moving it elsewhere, but for the game mechanics I suppose it would work. Co2 isn't really the best material for this though, you'd want the gas with the highest specific heat capacity. That would be steam, with 4.179 (DTU/g)/°C, or hydrogen with 2.4 (DTU/g)/°C.

[PhailRaptor]

11 hours ago, BlueLance said:

Out of curiosity, is heat lost or generated when water becomes steam? If it is lost do you think that using hydrogen to condense 1 tonne per tile of steam is possible?

As soon as it condenses it would have to go through the whole thing again. which mean it will evaporate, losing energy and then condense repeating it. Dno if it is possible or not.

 

32 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

I remember seeing an experiment on this forums a while ago that theorized and demonstrated that pH2O has far higher specific heat capacity than it ought to. By boiling pH2O into steam, then cooling the steam with the pH2O to be boiled, a SIGNIFICANT amount of thermal energy was... lost? displaced? The sum amount of thermal energy contained by the resulting steam and dirt from boiled pH2O was far less than it should have been.

This used to be the case when P-H2O had a higher Heat Capacity than H2O.  This is no longer the case, as P-H2O was changed to have the same Heat Capacity as H2O.

[psusi]

12 hours ago, grossbeer said:

Im pretty far in the game and want to develop a system which cools my aquatuners. I know i dont need to cool them due to thm not overheating, but it feels like exploiting a bug.

You do need to cool them or they will eventually melt if they get hot enough.

12 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

The only way to keep Aquatuners cool is to replace the coolant over time.  For most people, this means (ab)using the fixed temp output of the Water Sieve or the Carbon Skimmer to reset the hot coolant back to 40 C

Or driving a steam turbine.

10 hours ago, thejams said:

And this is mine, with maximum sustained cooling capacity equaling 70 Wheezewort, while using none

Yea, but how do you generate enough pH2O?

9 hours ago, thejams said:

Steam turbine is probably the most realistic heat removal in the game at the moment.  It does practicaly convert the heat to kinetic energy (moves the steam) and then converts it to electricity.

Actually IRL, it ( as do all engines ) converts the movement of heat from a hot side to a cool side into energy.  The heat itself is not destroyed.

 

43 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

I remember seeing an experiment on this forums a while ago that theorized and demonstrated that pH2O has far higher specific heat capacity than it ought to.

It used to have 50% more heat capacity than normal water, but they nerfed that in RU.

 

[thejams]

1 hour ago, psusi said:

Yea, but how do you generate enough pH2O?

Actually IRL, it ( as do all engines ) converts the movement of heat from a hot side to a cool side into energy.  The heat itself is not destroyed.

The system just provides maximum efficiency with whatever pH2O you provide it.  At maximum capacity, it would need around 1400g/s 20°C pH2O, so 10 NGG for example.

IRL the engines use gas expansion kinetic energy to do work.  When the gas expands and does work (ie the mechanical work of moving a piston or spinning a turbine), it loses energy and cools down.  IRL no energy is destroyed ever, but it is converted between different types, for example chemical into thermal into mechanical .  What you said is pretty much nonsense

(I did incorrectly say that heat gets converted to kinetic energy, when I should have said thermal energy gets converted into kinetic).

[psusi]

1 hour ago, thejams said:

The system just provides maximum efficiency with whatever pH2O you provide it.  At maximum capacity, it would need around 1400g/s 20°C pH2O, so 10 NGG for example.

That's a lot of NGG creating a lot of polluted water.  Then you need something to do with all of the fresh water coming out of the sieve.  I was thinking you were talking about a more-or-less closed loop converting hot polluted water to fresh, maybe heating that, converting it back to polluted, maybe heating that further, then converting it back to fresh.  Like the toilet system.

[thejams]

You should really look at this from a different perspective - if you sieve any amount of pH2O, this is the system you want to use.  The only thing this system does is it takes that polluted water and maximises the cooling effect you can gain from the Water Sieve fixed output.  It also makes sure that the resulting cooling is put into a very handy coolant system while using as little power as possible.  It is just an extremely efficient, self regulating system.

Example of a more-or-less closed loop:  With Lavatory, Sink and Shower and 10 dupes you are looking at like 780g/s of pH20 at 20°C.  This equals to a maximum of 322 kDTU/s of cooling.  You will use 65 kDTU/s of that cooling to bring back the sieved water to 20°C leaving you with a net gain of around 250 kDTU/s of cooling (21 Wheezeworts in hydrogen equivalent ).  You basically exchange some of your dupe time for a pretty large amount of cooling.

Example 2 of a more-or-less closed loop: Use a single Petroleum Generator at -20°C and get 750g/s of -20°C pH20 = 435 kDTU/s of cooling.  Use a similar system with the resulting 40°C water for additional 185 kDTU/s of cooling.  Pump the 99°C water back into the oil well for 2,5 kg/s of Crude Oil.  Use the resulting 620 kDTU/s of cooling and whatever other byproducts you get however you please...

 

[Lancar]

You can also delete heat by heating oil and sending it to the refinery. It'll come out at around 90C regardless of what you put in.
My current steel refinery setup uses petroleum in a loop, running until it gets over 300C and then dumping it into Petroleum Generators. Their heat emissions don't depend on the fuel either.

[Denisetwin]

On 9/27/2018 at 6:01 AM, thejams said:

And this is mine, with maximum sustained cooling capacity equaling 48 Wheezewort, while using none 

P.S. yes it uses pwater, but it is perfectly balanced, as all things should be

This is a beautiful piece of work, I've not used the new bldgs at all, can you post some layer screenshots?  Automation and piping?  Is that oil in with the aquatuner?  Are you using radiant pipes with polluted water in them in the aquatuner room?

thank you for sharing!!

[Mooka]

 

Here is my design, it's working since it onlys runs when the steam's geyser is active.

The water is traped in the closed loop untill it reachs 20 celsius, then it's released out from the loop.(Petroleum is better as liquid, but I don't have it right now)

 

Bottom pipe circuit: Works as condensator for the steam, reducing it from 110 celsius to ~80 celsius.
Top pipe circuit: Cools the water to 20 celsius. It also has a lot of water resevoir for buffering water in the case aquatuner reachs 90 and it is disabled by the thermo sensor.

[smithdl]

19 hours ago, psusi said:

Actually IRL, it ( as do all engines ) converts the movement of heat from a hot side to a cool side into energy.  The heat itself is not destroyed.

Energy has many forms, so yes, it does convert the heat energy into kinetic energy.  But to say you delete the heat is true.  The temperature will decrease as the heat energy is converted.

IRL, you would radiate your heat into space.  This game does not have the most common form of heat transfer.  Vacuums don't stop heat transfer.  The moon is -280 at night and 170 during its day.  Space SUCKS the heat out of everything as it radiates out.  ONly the heat energy from a star overcomes it, and only when your in the path of that energy.

[thejams]

3 hours ago, Denisetwin said:

This is a beautiful piece of work, I've not used the new bldgs at all, can you post some layer screenshots?  Automation and piping?  Is that oil in with the aquatuner?  Are you using radiant pipes with polluted water in them in the aquatuner room?

thank you for sharing!!

Crude Oil or Petroleum in the Aquatuner chamber works, as would Polluted water, but you would need to set the exit temperature towards the sieve a little bit lower to prevent boiling.  With Crude you should be able to pretty much set it at 119°C (top pipe sensor).  Fresh (as cold as possible) pH20 comes from the top and loops until it gets heated to the set temp before being sent to the sieve.  To the left is the coolant loop which automatically handles expansion/contraction with the 2 tanks, so you can branch and use shutoffs to control temperature where needed.  The bottom pipe sensor can be set at -6°C, so the coolant loop once it stabilizes will be between -20 and -6°C.  The tuner always works at 100% efficiency, using as little power as possible (except for the system startup until it cools down the 5t tank of coolant).

The automation is very simple: