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Steel needs a rework


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Steel should be hard to make. No doubt. But the current lime requirement  takes away from gameplay enjoyment for one simple reason: lots of critters = horrible, terrible low FPS lag. 

I ended up putting down my cosmic upgrade base because once I had enough critters to sustain a decent steel production the game wa unplayable, and I have a reasonably fast machine.

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1 minute ago, caffeinated21 said:

lots of critters = horrible, terrible low FPS lag.

While I do agree about steel receipt, low fps is a question not to steel, but to optimization. Those critters have a very simple behavior, they should not cause so much lag. Perhaps critters code is too new and was not sufficiently optimized yet.

Ok first question would be how much steel do you want ? xD

(There are just 2 good reasons I see right now where you need steel:

1. Cover your top layer with bunker doors/tiles

2.High temperature autosweepers)

 

Even by just collecting wild critter eggs I can sustain more steel production than I need. After 200+ cycles each air pocket with a critter inside you discover has a good amount of egg shells just waiting for you. I got no tamed critters in my base right now and I am above cycle 500^^

If the normal map size is still 256 tiles width, and we assume the worst case (you want a full row of bunker doors cause you want to use to full size of the map, which will kill your fps with all the debris ...) you need 32.000Kg steel and than you got no more usage for steel besides a coupe autosweepers.

 

But if you want to reduce your fps problems your better of by building bunker walls and not dealing with all the debris.

Debris will combine till 100t (5 times the size of a compactor) and delete excess on save/load cycles

=> If the debris was the problem the bunker walls wouldn´t help ;)

But if you use bunker doors, I would assume you want to open them from time to time:

Then you got your buildings entombed, starting a couple of heat transfers and it requires some more structures to make it work, which all are bad for your performance. (And there is not much energy to harvest if you need some cooling loop(s), meteor scanner(s), bunker doors and a some sort of "battery" which will loose charge over time ...)

So your solution is to not utilize the content from this update because it’s not useful. Yeah- I’m hoping they come up with something better than that. 

FPS issues from the absurd amount of debris being a separate issue, I still think it’s poor game design to require ranching dozens of critters to have decent steel production 

3 minutes ago, caffeinated21 said:

So your solution is to not utilize the content from this update because it’s not useful. Yeah- I’m hoping they come up with something better than that. 

Hell no, sry if you misunderstood me:

My solution is to not build a 256tile width colossal solar farm which would kill your fps and takes a long time to build, you can test the same stuff and build the same things if you use just a portion of the surface.

=> If you got fps problems, why not build it smaller and have the "same" experience than if you build the same structure with fps problems and have a "worse" experience playing

 

 

11 minutes ago, caffeinated21 said:

FPS issues from the absurd amount of debris being a separate issue, I still think it’s poor game design to require ranching dozens of critters to have decent steel production 

I don´t have any tamed critters, just some wild ones wandering my base and still enough steel to build everything I want.

=> Even if you want to cover the whole top layer with bunker doors it´s just 320 times processing the steel recipe and you have no more real use (And it´s (one of) the biggest single structures you can build inside this game, why should your be able to build it the first 100 cycles ?)

I'm just wondering how egg shells could potentially be a part of steel production: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel#Definitions_and_related_materials

Can someone explain this to me?) With same logic why not add Bristle Blossoms to steel recipe or strawberry...

@Khullag Egg shells are processed into Lime, which is used as a flux in steel production, albeit not a very plausible source. In RL it's extracted from limestone, a type of sedimentary rock. A while back I suggested an option to (inefficiently) process sedimentary rock into Lime as a more accessible, nonrenewable, ranching free alternative for steel production.

 

Just now, Sevio said:

@Khullag Egg shells are processed into Lime, which is used as a flux in steel production, albeit not a very plausible source. In RL it's extracted from limestone, a type of sedimentary rock. A while back I suggested an option to (inefficiently) process sedimentary rock into Lime as a more accessible, nonrenewable, ranching free alternative for steel production.

 

I've read your post back then and it sounds more reasonable to me in terms of logic than using egg shells

28 minutes ago, Khullag said:

I've read your post back then and it sounds more reasonable to me in terms of logic than using egg shells

Game logic makes games much better than blindly following realism. Therefore it's illogical to go with realism when it goes against game logic.

That said, reliance on critters isn't very good - it is another nail in the coffin for plants. It's not good for only one of two options to come with a bunch of extra, unique benefits.

5 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Ok first question would be how much steel do you want ? xD

(There are just 2 good reasons I see right now where you need steel:

1. Cover your top layer with bunker doors/tiles

2.High temperature autosweepers)

 

Even by just collecting wild critter eggs I can sustain more steel production than I need. After 200+ cycles each air pocket with a critter inside you discover has a good amount of egg shells just waiting for you. I got no tamed critters in my base right now and I am above cycle 500^^

Strange.  I get the opposite.  After I used sandbox to span ~20 tropical pikus in a tank (at about 100 cycles into game), after +200 cycles I only had enough lime for 8 blast doors.  Seemed very broken to me. (Not fps but rather the steel production needing crazy amounts of eggs; seems weird to link steel so closely to egg production)

Ok I try to build around most air pockets with critters inside, so the pacu/drecko produce a nice amount of egg shells and I saved all of my wild hatches inside a big stable.

The whole map contains more than 20 pacu and if you got 8 blast doors in 200 cycles it seems fair.

 

Keep in mind the whole top layer is just 256 tiles => 64 doors width and after that 64 doors you got no more real use for your steel production.

 

PS: If you want a real fast steel production you need to invest algae and tame some pacu ;)

 

Or you could be like me, I start ranching by about cycle 20-30 and from there it expands, I still have not used it to make steel, and I have never even built the forge etc yet. Hatches require the least amount of effort overall imo, in my current build I have two hatch stables, two glossy drecko stables, two shinebug stables, and currently I am filling another four stables, two with squeky pufts and two with normal pufts. Eggs are invading!

1 hour ago, Cilya said:

It's unrealistic for industrial production of steel, but not for small amounts of lime :

 

I was just about to link that.

Given how popular that series is, I wouldn't be surprised if the devs got the idea from that.

On the subject though; at first I felt lime availability was an issue but I just scaled up my ranches. Performance hits were more related to debris than critters. I suspect the issue of auto dig and debris removal will be addressed next patch (boring arm please Klei you will be my new bestie).

8 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

hopefully regolith will be consumable by critters.... 

It sort of is. I feed my stone hatches regolith but I melt it into magma first then cool it to igneous rock. The issue is you get so much regolith you will never have enough hatches to get rid of it all.

I think Jambell contemplated (albeit for a moment) going for a word pun with Lime; having it in cooking so that they could make new recipes.

He then came to the conclusion that it was too Don't Starve for ONI. They don't resort to such punnery. :wilsondisappointed:

Spoiler

*Looks At "Arting"*

 

1 minute ago, BlueLance said:

Yeah, but heck at least its going somewhere, I would rather make a small dent than none at all!! Tbh I am rather tempted to have a massive hatch farm at some point and see where in china my computer gets to when it melts through the earth

Could harness the energy from all that heat that's being off put.

Spoiler

Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about. :wilson_goodjob:

 

Just now, BlueLance said:

Cook marshmallows over the hole where my pc used to be XD

Wouldn't they taste metallic though?

Spoiler

Quickly Googles "what metals are in computers" for the sake of the joke below

Mmmm...aluminum, antimony, arsenic, barium, beryllium, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, copper, gallium, gold, iron, lead, manganese, mercury, palladium, platinum, selenium, silver, and zinc. Adds a unique flavor that the food critics have been waiting for. 

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