caffeinated21 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Steel should be hard to make. No doubt. But the current lime requirement takes away from gameplay enjoyment for one simple reason: lots of critters = horrible, terrible low FPS lag. I ended up putting down my cosmic upgrade base because once I had enough critters to sustain a decent steel production the game wa unplayable, and I have a reasonably fast machine. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreyKl Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, caffeinated21 said: lots of critters = horrible, terrible low FPS lag. While I do agree about steel receipt, low fps is a question not to steel, but to optimization. Those critters have a very simple behavior, they should not cause so much lag. Perhaps critters code is too new and was not sufficiently optimized yet. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Ok first question would be how much steel do you want ? xD (There are just 2 good reasons I see right now where you need steel: 1. Cover your top layer with bunker doors/tiles 2.High temperature autosweepers) Even by just collecting wild critter eggs I can sustain more steel production than I need. After 200+ cycles each air pocket with a critter inside you discover has a good amount of egg shells just waiting for you. I got no tamed critters in my base right now and I am above cycle 500^^ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffeinated21 Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Naturally, I want to cover the entire surface with bunker doors If you’re just using them for the odd high temp automation task it’s nbd. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 If the normal map size is still 256 tiles width, and we assume the worst case (you want a full row of bunker doors cause you want to use to full size of the map, which will kill your fps with all the debris ...) you need 32.000Kg steel and than you got no more usage for steel besides a coupe autosweepers. But if you want to reduce your fps problems your better of by building bunker walls and not dealing with all the debris. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffeinated21 Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 If all the debris is landing on a single layer, doesn’t it combine? In which case it’s not that many individual entities... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Debris will combine till 100t (5 times the size of a compactor) and delete excess on save/load cycles => If the debris was the problem the bunker walls wouldn´t help But if you use bunker doors, I would assume you want to open them from time to time: Then you got your buildings entombed, starting a couple of heat transfers and it requires some more structures to make it work, which all are bad for your performance. (And there is not much energy to harvest if you need some cooling loop(s), meteor scanner(s), bunker doors and a some sort of "battery" which will loose charge over time ...) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffeinated21 Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 So your solution is to not utilize the content from this update because it’s not useful. Yeah- I’m hoping they come up with something better than that. FPS issues from the absurd amount of debris being a separate issue, I still think it’s poor game design to require ranching dozens of critters to have decent steel production Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, caffeinated21 said: So your solution is to not utilize the content from this update because it’s not useful. Yeah- I’m hoping they come up with something better than that. Hell no, sry if you misunderstood me: My solution is to not build a 256tile width colossal solar farm which would kill your fps and takes a long time to build, you can test the same stuff and build the same things if you use just a portion of the surface. => If you got fps problems, why not build it smaller and have the "same" experience than if you build the same structure with fps problems and have a "worse" experience playing 11 minutes ago, caffeinated21 said: FPS issues from the absurd amount of debris being a separate issue, I still think it’s poor game design to require ranching dozens of critters to have decent steel production I don´t have any tamed critters, just some wild ones wandering my base and still enough steel to build everything I want. => Even if you want to cover the whole top layer with bunker doors it´s just 320 times processing the steel recipe and you have no more real use (And it´s (one of) the biggest single structures you can build inside this game, why should your be able to build it the first 100 cycles ?) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khullag Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I'm just wondering how egg shells could potentially be a part of steel production: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel#Definitions_and_related_materials Can someone explain this to me?) With same logic why not add Bristle Blossoms to steel recipe or strawberry... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevio Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 @Khullag Egg shells are processed into Lime, which is used as a flux in steel production, albeit not a very plausible source. In RL it's extracted from limestone, a type of sedimentary rock. A while back I suggested an option to (inefficiently) process sedimentary rock into Lime as a more accessible, nonrenewable, ranching free alternative for steel production. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khullag Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, Sevio said: @Khullag Egg shells are processed into Lime, which is used as a flux in steel production, albeit not a very plausible source. In RL it's extracted from limestone, a type of sedimentary rock. A while back I suggested an option to (inefficiently) process sedimentary rock into Lime as a more accessible, nonrenewable, ranching free alternative for steel production. I've read your post back then and it sounds more reasonable to me in terms of logic than using egg shells Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, Khullag said: I've read your post back then and it sounds more reasonable to me in terms of logic than using egg shells Game logic makes games much better than blindly following realism. Therefore it's illogical to go with realism when it goes against game logic. That said, reliance on critters isn't very good - it is another nail in the coffin for plants. It's not good for only one of two options to come with a bunch of extra, unique benefits. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemie Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said: Ok first question would be how much steel do you want ? xD (There are just 2 good reasons I see right now where you need steel: 1. Cover your top layer with bunker doors/tiles 2.High temperature autosweepers) Even by just collecting wild critter eggs I can sustain more steel production than I need. After 200+ cycles each air pocket with a critter inside you discover has a good amount of egg shells just waiting for you. I got no tamed critters in my base right now and I am above cycle 500^^ Strange. I get the opposite. After I used sandbox to span ~20 tropical pikus in a tank (at about 100 cycles into game), after +200 cycles I only had enough lime for 8 blast doors. Seemed very broken to me. (Not fps but rather the steel production needing crazy amounts of eggs; seems weird to link steel so closely to egg production) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Ok I try to build around most air pockets with critters inside, so the pacu/drecko produce a nice amount of egg shells and I saved all of my wild hatches inside a big stable. The whole map contains more than 20 pacu and if you got 8 blast doors in 200 cycles it seems fair. Keep in mind the whole top layer is just 256 tiles => 64 doors width and after that 64 doors you got no more real use for your steel production. PS: If you want a real fast steel production you need to invest algae and tame some pacu Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Or you could be like me, I start ranching by about cycle 20-30 and from there it expands, I still have not used it to make steel, and I have never even built the forge etc yet. Hatches require the least amount of effort overall imo, in my current build I have two hatch stables, two glossy drecko stables, two shinebug stables, and currently I am filling another four stables, two with squeky pufts and two with normal pufts. Eggs are invading! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilya Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 It's unrealistic for industrial production of steel, but not for small amounts of lime : Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyMonroe Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Cilya said: It's unrealistic for industrial production of steel, but not for small amounts of lime : I was just about to link that. Given how popular that series is, I wouldn't be surprised if the devs got the idea from that. On the subject though; at first I felt lime availability was an issue but I just scaled up my ranches. Performance hits were more related to debris than critters. I suspect the issue of auto dig and debris removal will be addressed next patch (boring arm please Klei you will be my new bestie). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 hopefully regolith will be consumable by critters.... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyMonroe Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, BlueLance said: hopefully regolith will be consumable by critters.... It sort of is. I feed my stone hatches regolith but I melt it into magma first then cool it to igneous rock. The issue is you get so much regolith you will never have enough hatches to get rid of it all. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Yeah, but heck at least its going somewhere, I would rather make a small dent than none at all!! Tbh I am rather tempted to have a massive hatch farm at some point and see where in china my computer gets to when it melts through the earth Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I think Jambell contemplated (albeit for a moment) going for a word pun with Lime; having it in cooking so that they could make new recipes. He then came to the conclusion that it was too Don't Starve for ONI. They don't resort to such punnery. Spoiler *Looks At "Arting"* 1 minute ago, BlueLance said: Yeah, but heck at least its going somewhere, I would rather make a small dent than none at all!! Tbh I am rather tempted to have a massive hatch farm at some point and see where in china my computer gets to when it melts through the earth Could harness the energy from all that heat that's being off put. Spoiler Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, watermelen671 said: Could harness the energy from all that heat that's being off put. Cook marshmallows over the hole where my pc used to be XD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, BlueLance said: Cook marshmallows over the hole where my pc used to be XD Wouldn't they taste metallic though? Spoiler Quickly Googles "what metals are in computers" for the sake of the joke below Mmmm...aluminum, antimony, arsenic, barium, beryllium, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, copper, gallium, gold, iron, lead, manganese, mercury, palladium, platinum, selenium, silver, and zinc. Adds a unique flavor that the food critics have been waiting for. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Well, not really, Your marshmallows over a wood fire don't taste like wood they taste like marshmallows Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/93282-steel-needs-a-rework/#findComment-1061791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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