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How to pipe without huge temp loss


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1C water in Abyssalite pipe.  Running about 80 tiles.  Arrives at wheat farm at 25C.  I tried insulated Abyssalite too.  Confirmed no wrong build materials.

It goes up 0.1C per tile in many places and as much as 0.5C over a few tiles in other places for no apparent reason.  It is running through caustic and slime biomes across ladders, open air, doors, bridges etc.  No one thing seemed to be the main cause.

Is it just borked by the radiator changes?  Tricks to minimize?  (running through tiles? not being adjacent to other pipes?)

(note: I know some players felt Abyssalite was bad design for infinite insulation, but it also seems bad design to make it impossible to get material from Point A to Point B without excessive temp gain otherwise you are forced to have everything done locally)

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Are you sure you are observing this right. You may just have filled in water at 25C at the start and it is still in the pipes. That way, you may see your cooling cycle, not the water warming, If you have ruled that out, sounds like a bug to me. While I currently only have hit water in Abyssalite pipes, I have not noticed any temperature drop off.

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51 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Are you sure you are observing this right. You may just have filled in water at 25C at the start and it is still in the pipes. That way, you may see your cooling cycle, not the water warming, If you have ruled that out, sounds like a bug to me. While I currently only have hit water in Abyssalite pipes, I have not noticed any temperature drop off.

I know the water temp at the start.  It is coming out of aqua tuner at 1C.  Very easy to say and not mis-see.

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I can confirm that (normal) abysalite pipes filled with 370K Water inside 300K Oxygen at 2Kg pressure does NOT transfer ANY heat to the Oxygen.

BUT the liquid will change temp till the pipe reachs liquid temperature (and abysalite has a huge capacity).

(If you run (normal) abysalite pipes through any tile you will exchange more heat than ANY other insulated pipe would transfer)

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It seems to be the same type of thing as Tempshift Plates and Abyssalite.  Like the Tempshift Plate, the liquid in the pipe will bypass the tiny Conductivity of the Abyssalite, so the Abyssalite will reach the same temperature as the Tempshift Plate or internal liquid.  But the Abyssalite will not be re-radiating that heat to it's other surroundings, because it's still Abyssallite.  The pipes should normalize at whatever temperature you are cooling the liquid to -- you said 1 C?  After which the water contained within them should stop absorbing heat from the Abyssalite.

Whether this is intended behavior or not, well...  We don't really know, but it's certainly very strange behavior.  And it may well be an unintended side effect of the mechanical changes behind the scenes were required to make Radiant Pipes work.

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1 hour ago, PhailRaptor said:

but it's certainly very strange behavior.

The inside of insulated pipes will conduct heat, so we see hot/cold pipes (very nice in the thermal overlay) at normal room temperature. The pipes are still insulated so they don´t radiate heat to their surrounding. That sounds pretty close to a "real" environment.

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4 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

It seems to be the same type of thing as Tempshift Plates and Abyssalite.  Like the Tempshift Plate, the liquid in the pipe will bypass the tiny Conductivity of the Abyssalite, so the Abyssalite will reach the same temperature as the Tempshift Plate or internal liquid.  But the Abyssalite will not be re-radiating that heat to it's other surroundings, because it's still Abyssallite.  The pipes should normalize at whatever temperature you are cooling the liquid to -- you said 1 C?  After which the water contained within them should stop absorbing heat from the Abyssalite.

Whether this is intended behavior or not, well...  We don't really know, but it's certainly very strange behavior.  And it may well be an unintended side effect of the mechanical changes behind the scenes were required to make Radiant Pipes work.

How many cycles do you think the normalization you mention would take? Ballpark, like 5 cycles or 500?

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1 hour ago, Cypher-7 said:

How many cycles do you think the normalization you mention would take? Ballpark, like 5 cycles or 500?

There is no ballpark estimate, because there are too many variables in the equation.  Input temperature of the liquid, starting temperature of the Abyssalite, Heat Capacities of both the liquid and the material of the Pipe, how many pipe segments there are, whether the liquid "packets" are full 10 kg or not, etc.

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Unfortunately PhailRaptor is right, my hydrogen has been heating up for about 60 cycles, and the pipes are still above 20 Degrees.

Edit - My Hydrogen starts out at -150ish so you can guess the massive temperature change

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It seems to take a lot of cycles.  More than 50 at which point it is really not working as needed.  So I deleted the damn thing and moved my wheat to a closer ice biome.  Very frustrating. (so sorry, no save to post)

 

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Right. I think this might be the issue that causes abyssalite pipes to break despite the fact that the contents and the outside has an ok temperature.

Basically if you have standing water in abyssalite pipes built from cold biome abyssalite the water will freeze in that section and break the pipe. Not cool!

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You could sweep collect abyssalite of a certain temperature and mix them in a storage container. Reaching near 0 pipes shouldnt Be toi hard as The temperature average toward each other.

Has any1 tried moving liquid oxygen with modern pipes with any success?

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56 minutes ago, Carnis said:

You could sweep collect abyssalite of a certain temperature and mix them in a storage container. Reaching near 0 pipes shouldnt Be toi hard as The temperature average toward each other.

That doesn't work as far as I know. This is a temperature bug that specifically appears with piping apparently.

58 minutes ago, Carnis said:

Has any1 tried moving liquid oxygen with modern pipes with any success?

Not yet. But I guess the same problem will appear.

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2 hours ago, 0xFADE said:

wasn't there some extreme temperature calculation difference that caused abyssalite to change.  Few hundred degrees.

 I've got some liquid oxygen accumulating that I'm afraid to send out.

It has to be in the thousands for you to notice at all. But that is normal behaviour that will not affect liquid oxygen (fast enough). The behaviour were discussing seems to be a bug.

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I've got abyssalite pipes connected to a metal refinery moving petroleum through a heat sink and the pipes are around the oils temperature in the several hundreds.  These are pipes not going through anything to suffer from that potential bug.  Now the pipes don't seem to be letting any significant amount of heat out but they themselves are still super hot.

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19 hours ago, chemie said:

It seems to take a lot of cycles.  More than 50 at which point it is really not working as needed.  So I deleted the damn thing and moved my wheat to a closer ice biome.  Very frustrating. (so sorry, no save to post)

 

I've been using insulated sandstone in place of abyssalite.  Seems to work for keeping the contents near their intended temperature.  

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Ok, so I ran tests with every type of pipe (Except the radiant pipes) behold, All pipes like to transfer temperature with their surroundings, I tested this by building pipes and dumping hot oil on them. This temperature change also affects the contents inside the pipes because the pipe is the medium for heat transfer.

I also did the same in a vacuum, in a vacuum the pipe will become the temperature of the gas/liquid it is transporting over time.

Insulated Abyssalite Pipes etc do not transfer heat at all. So if it is built at 20 degrees, the outside temperature will not change it, and the medium inside it will not either.... So now I just have to build everything out of insulated abyssalite

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3 hours ago, BlueLance said:

Ok, so I ran tests with every type of pipe (Except the radiant pipes) behold, All pipes like to transfer temperature with their surroundings, I tested this by building pipes and dumping hot oil on them. This temperature change also affects the contents inside the pipes because the pipe is the medium for heat transfer.

I also did the same in a vacuum, in a vacuum the pipe will become the temperature of the gas/liquid it is transporting over time.

Insulated Abyssalite Pipes etc do not transfer heat at all. So if it is built at 20 degrees, the outside temperature will not change it, and the medium inside it will not either.... So now I just have to build everything out of insulated abyssalite

I was worried insulated abyssalite would just have more mass and therefore remove even more heat from the liquid to reach steady state?

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32 minutes ago, chemie said:

I was worried insulated abyssalite would just have more mass and therefore remove even more heat from the liquid to reach steady state?

So far all the pipes from insulated abyssalite have remained at the 20 degrees they were debugged in at. This remained the case when the tile was behind another tile, in a vacuum, or in hot oil. 

Some other materials definently resisted the changes, but still eventually ended up the temperature of their contents (When in a vacuum) or they tried to equalise the temperature of the pipes with their contents and the hot oil.  

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I just replaced some pipes previsouly made of abysallite with insulated one. I got water freezing in abyssalite pipes after beeing blocked in a cold place for a long time... What is odd is that I didn't notice this problem until maybe 50 cycles, but I was using much more water from those pipes before, which could explain why it wasn't freezing. Anyway, hope insulated one will do the trick!

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1 minute ago, leoroy said:

I just replaced some pipes previsouly made of abysallite with insulated one. I got water freezing in abyssalite pipes after beeing blocked in a cold place for a long time... What is odd is that I didn't notice this problem until maybe 50 cycles, but I was using much more water from those pipes before, which could explain why it wasn't freezing. Anyway, hope insulated one will do the trick!

Please keep us updated, My tests only concerned a vacuum and a 300 degree liquid. I started a new base and plan to use only insulated tiles for temperature sensitive things, hopefully I will see the same results as in my test

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