Should there be a tutorial for new players?

[ShadowDuelist]

I think I liked DST a lot in part because I was lucky enough to start the game from 0, with another person who was also in absolute 0. We slowly learned every bit of the game, since dying to darkness the first night and on. And it was fun all the way. 

The problem with DST is that when you first buy the game, and hop into the first world you see, hoping it to be "easy" to learn or finding people that will help you, that just doesn't happen: you find people that is basically infuriated by every single thing you try to do, mostly because you have no idea what you are doing and they went through all that a long time ago.
Every time I'm the middle of the ruins fighting everything the ruins can throw at you and a newbie starts screaming for food and "where is base", and I refuse to help for obvious reasons, they show the usual ace "I thought this was don't starve TOGETHER, not ALONE". And it kinda makes me feel like I'm being a jerk to them.

Perhaps the small recommendation sign that you get when you first install the game as a tutorial button would do better:

"Welcome to DST: if you are new to the game we recommend starting the game with friends, or creating a world alone before jumping into public servers. Enjoy your stay and Don't starve!
PS: When you finally decide to join a public game, for god's sake don't ask where is base right away, look for it on your own or survive until you find people."

Perhaps it shouldn't let you join public servers until you have survived at least 10 days on your own/a friends server? With a progress bar like the characters unlocking bar of DS.

[Mr.Mulk]

3 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Id think this is actually any different from what i mentioned before..... 

 

Huh? When did you mention the "magic" of first playing the game as being the incentive to not have a tutorial? The only statement that is similar is the youtube tutorials comment, which is a fairly obvious and common suggestion,,,

[CaptainChaotica]

I agree about the mysteriousness, Mr. Mulk...the game just seems so spooky at the beginning, when it's all full of strange ominousness...es and you don't know what ANY of them mean.  It takes a while to stop being creeped out by the sound of a tree growing, for pete's sake!  So that...yeah.

The TEENSY problem with the describing "what skill level" you're looking for, is...how exactly do you define that?  In the Forge it was simple--everybody actually had a nice handy number attached to them, to show--if not their actual SKILL--at least how _long_ they'd been gladiating.  In regular freeform Don't Starve it's a little more complicated...

In fact, we've had a knock-down drag-out brawl over that exact subject at least once on these very forums, possibly twice.  Why?  Because the second somebody started making up their own "skill tiers"...it was ALL.  _COMPLETELY_.  Based around combat.  Absolutely no other survival skills mattered.  Didn't matter if you were wily and resourceful and knew how to survive entire years with almost nothing, if you didn't single-combat bosses and do regular ruins raids YOU DIDN'T COUNT. 

This approach...in addition to me getting called out specifically by a forum member I'd never done anything to, as a "veteran noob" who was "deluded" about her skill level...would also alienate a lot of perfectly good, knowledgeable, cooperative survivors who might've added to your experience rather than taking away.  And even if you don't care about combat so much...how many of the basics do you mention before the description line gets too long and unwieldy, and there's so many you might forget an important one. 

So between the difficulty of explaining what you're looking for in a short, pithy way, and the fact that "skill" itself is categorised VERY differently by different players...O don't think that method would work out either, unfortunately.  :\

...Notorious

[FreyaMaluk]

15 hours ago, Mr.Mulk said:

Huh? When did you mention the "magic" of first playing the game as being the incentive to not have a tutorial? The only statement that is similar is the youtube tutorials comment, which is a fairly obvious and common suggestion,,,

I mean the idea behind players learning step by step... better said.. death after death.. xD

that's the real "sense of pride and accomplishment" right there when u finally uncover the game's secrets.... and yes.. ofc... it's a magical feeling indeed

12 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I agree about the mysteriousness, Mr. Mulk...the game just seems so spooky at the beginning, when it's all full of strange ominousness...es and you don't know what ANY of them mean.  It takes a while to stop being creeped out by the sound of a tree growing, for pete's sake!  So that...yeah.

The TEENSY problem with the describing "what skill level" you're looking for, is...how exactly do you define that?  In the Forge it was simple--everybody actually had a nice handy number attached to them, to show--if not their actual SKILL--at least how _long_ they'd been gladiating.  In regular freeform Don't Starve it's a little more complicated...

In fact, we've had a knock-down drag-out brawl over that exact subject at least once on these very forums, possibly twice.  Why?  Because the second somebody started making up their own "skill tiers"...it was ALL.  _COMPLETELY_.  Based around combat.  Absolutely no other survival skills mattered.  Didn't matter if you were wily and resourceful and knew how to survive entire years with almost nothing, if you didn't single-combat bosses and do regular ruins raids YOU DIDN'T COUNT. 

This approach...in addition to me getting called out specifically by a forum member I'd never done anything to, as a "veteran noob" who was "deluded" about her skill level...would also alienate a lot of perfectly good, knowledgeable, cooperative survivors who might've added to your experience rather than taking away.  And even if you don't care about combat so much...how many of the basics do you mention before the description line gets too long and unwieldy, and there's so many you might forget an important one. 

So between the difficulty of explaining what you're looking for in a short, pithy way, and the fact that "skill" itself is categorised VERY differently by different players...O don't think that method would work out either, unfortunately.  :\

...Notorious

wow... veteran noob.. that's harsh.. 

I mean.. IMO the game offers alternatives to every playstyle...

are u combar oriented? go nuts with more giants or mod bosses to make them more lethal

do you like making gigantic bases? there u have lots of structures and deco artifacts

Disregarding other people's experiences cuz people play differently is the most common mistake amongst veterans in these forums... unfortunately.

And I fear it's the cause behind why so many "veterans" in these forums end up playing alone all the time. Noone likes a despotic figure for a game partner.

[CaptainChaotica]

EXACTLY!  Thank you.    And think of it this way--even if you ARE a hardcore-combat dictator type...having somebody who's good at other stuff in your game can still help, 'cos _they can do the stuff you don't want to_.  Like the quieter base-building and foraging stuff.  I feel it's just about _always_ good to have people with multiple skills or playstyles around; that way a bit of everything can get done at once. 

...Notorious

[Rellimarual]

9 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

In fact, we've had a knock-down drag-out brawl over that exact subject at least once on these very forums, possibly twice.  Why?  Because the second somebody started making up their own "skill tiers"...it was ALL.  _COMPLETELY_.  Based around combat.  Absolutely no other survival skills mattered.  Didn't matter if you were wily and resourceful and knew how to survive entire years with almost nothing, if you didn't single-combat bosses and do regular ruins raids YOU DIDN'T COUNT. 

This is a chronic problem in gaming. It’s not that there aren’t tons of games that are creatively designed and offer many ways to solve challenges, but the core audience tends to be fixatived on combat as the most significant skill and activity, the supreme achievement in any player. It’s kind of baked-in, from what I’ve seen. They don’t even realize it’s a limitation in their imagination, or a set of blinkers they’re wearing. They just think that’s the way it is, This becomes self-reinforcing, so it’s very hard to introduce a broader framework, kind of like describing the value of color to someone whose only ever seen in black and white.

[MondayNight]

While there is for everything an optimal way towards the end result (and combat tends to be in most situations that optimal way of handling stuff world throws at you), there's also a little DST tagline: "your world, your rules" - accounting for your personality and general propensity of doing things in certain ways. Not performing something in optimal way (objectively speaking there is always an optimal way, investment/benefit wise) doesn't necessarily mean you not knowing how to do it or cannot do it, and taking your sweet time with stuff is part of DST charm entertaining you in a relaxed manner if so choosing. Yet I think most of us posters here did indeed speed-runs, they are fun, to test your dexterity, planning-and-execution minimizing errors; still, if the game would sum up to the quickest times towards achieving all there is to be done via most efficient actions/items, by the middle of first spring one can finish everything DST has to offer, Ruins regeneration included - and that if playing very seriously solo. In groups of advanced players and very proficient playing style, people absolutely steamroll everything, and only the fist full/new moon limits Ruins regen. More flexibility in approaching DST challenges is rather a must for keeping alive-and-well one's interest in the game (assuming this is desired and not just "do all quickly-best, and get out towards next game on, oh, ever-growing list").

 

Regarding a tutorial concept, as previous posters wrote, kinda contradicts the "discover wonders of this world yourself and how to survive it" going for DST. A pop-up message after installation like what @ShadowDuelist exemplified ("we recommend you play with friends till you understand the core DST concepts") could provide a measure of softening potential cases like one described in op (although I further believe that case was actually masked griefing). However majority of people would still ignore it in their "chase after immediate gratification".

[b1b3r0n]

Should there be a tutorial ? No 

If you don't want noobies in your server, say it in the title, but going to PUBLIC means you can have the best or the worst player. I don't think that separate people is the right thing to do.

 

If somebody really doesn't want to listen you can ban him 

If he burns everything you can rollback. 

[axxel]

My physical copy of DS includes a manual. In there, Wilson tells how he spent 10 days (some days aren't written down) and what he did. He even mentions how to cook meatballs with monster meat and berries! So, I think a tutorial should be optional and playing with the world creation menu is recommended to adjust the world to ones difficulty-taste.

 

[csc_unit]

Imo, I think the game has changed.

In his first year, part of the DS experience was indeed to experience and discover what you can do and how to solve, often very logically, problems and needs. But as the game evolved, it got more and more complex and DST came to be. So complex that in order to battle the ancient Stalker, you need to : build and find the way to fight the chess pieces shadows, find fossils, build the correct fossil in the hidden atrium, activate the gateway and shove the heart in the fossil. You could spend 10 000 hours of play without finding this and i'd be normal.

There is just no way to fully experience the game without any kind of tutorials/guidance. And this is where the DS community steps in. It all starts from right here in this forum. This is unofficial designed and necessary tutorial. 

[spideswine]

On 2/1/2018 at 8:51 AM, CaptainChaotica said:

Wow, that's a SPECIAL type of new player--not only clueless, but greedy arseholes.  God damn.  I've had one sleep my tent AND lean-to away in a few days for sanity, deliberately go right up to a red-butt beefalo AND hit it, and stay in base while there were firedogs even though we kept yelling at him to follow us to the traps...and I've had people YOINK the meatballs right out from under my starving hands.

...not both of those in one person, though.  Wow.  Stealing all the food, overfilling the fires, using up all the supplies for sanity when THEY PROBABLY WEREN'T EVEN INSANE YET, _and_ getting killed?  Not sure if actual noobs or clever trolls, at that freaking point.  'Cos if they were setting out to DELIBERATELY ruin your whole game--without doing the immediately-recognisable griefer stuff such as hammering and burning--that is preeeeetty effective...

...Notorious

I'm guessing noobs, there are much better ways to intentionally grief than that, since most people I know would've banned them instead of lecturing them earlier on, preventing most of the damage.