What Winona Should Have Been.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

How about a tiny critter robot that she can build (and actively control as was explained before, leaving her original self standing in a place) to explore at a decent speed, and consumes fuel while moving (can be recharged). It could also be neutral to normal or broken clockworks, and it could maybe hack into a clockwork taking control over it (and being able to move it out of the caves too) but as soon as the fuel runs out (or if you stop contolling it) the little critter will eject from the clockwork and become inmobile once more, and the clockwork will return to its aggresive state.

I just don't like the idea of them being critters cause critters are just useless cosmetic things, devoid of any interesting game mechanics.

[Auth]

36 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I just don't like the idea of them being critters cause critters are just useless cosmetic things, devoid of any interesting game mechanics.

Psst, critters were meant to be cosmetics

Also if the little pawn would be able to hack and possess other clockworks, do you know what this means?

Winona, more like

Spoiler

 

[TheKingofSquirrels]

3 hours ago, Auth said:

Psst, critters were meant to be cosmetics

[BRUCER]

53 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Instead of being just a poor light source with glow berries and a rot trash compactor, Critters could find another use.

What if feeding your critter caused them to gain special abilities such as a sanity aura from Crafty, or a small damage boost (1.1x) from Scrappy? Just something to cater to one's playstyle or just assist with a task that one does constantly. Critters could also have innate abilities such as a Broodling rarely breathing fire to warm the player and provide light, or an Ewelet coughing up a small wad of phlegm that slows enemies when walked upon, etc. 

[Nullum]

I love the intricate details that you want Winona to be promising. But for Winona to be promising as ever and even yet compete at the standards of the community voted best characters of Don't Starve Together if she has a special crafting tab called "Wiring" if I want to call it that way.

If you know about Terraria and Minecraft, you may probably know about the 2D wires in Terraria and Minecraft's redstone. And here they made a full burst of creativity in automation specifically and this may well suit Don't Starve Together. Imagine the whole lot of possibilities if wiring came into Don't Starve through Winona. 

[Spaartan]

Just now, Aeschwutz said:

I love the intricate details that you want Winona to be promising. But for Winona to be promising as ever and even yet compete at the standards of the community voted best characters of Don't Starve Together if she has a special crafting tab called "Wiring" if I want to call it that way.

If you know about Terraria and Minecraft, you may probably know about the 2D wires in Terraria and Minecraft's redstone. And here they made a full burst of creativity in automation specifically and this may well suit Don't Starve Together. Imagine the whole lot of possibilities if wiring came into Don't Starve through Winona. 

It should not be made only accessible to Winona though because that would make her op. Either she has a head start to it or just focus on the pawn as a device, not a critter.

[Faintly Macabre]

On 12/21/2017 at 9:35 PM, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Mechanic Character = Being able to control, be-friend or do something with Clockwork Monsters.

It does NOT equal tape...

On 12/21/2017 at 10:17 PM, ProfessorAlpaca said:

When I first heard mechanic

...you must have been dreaming. She's not a mechanic, she's a factory worker/handywoman. Her title is, quote, "The Handywoman." Duct tape fits her perfectly. While I think patching armor with tape makes more sense than clothes, repairing armor could have been a balance issue, and it still has value in nearly halving the silk cost of getting a sewing kit's benefits.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

3 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

...you must have been dreaming. She's not a mechanic, she's a factory worker/handywoman. Her title is, quote, "The Handywoman." Duct tape fits her perfectly. While I think patching armor with tape makes more sense than clothes, repairing armor could have been a balance issue, and it still has value in nearly halving the silk cost of getting a sewing kit's benefits.

I think...It's very vague.

Factory worker can mean many things. From her quotes, she seems to be an engineer of sorts:

Clockwork Rook- "A complete misuse of the beauty of engineering."

Clockwork Knight- "Incredible! Let me look at those gears!"

WX-78 - "C'mon, %s! Justa tiny peek under the hood!"

Alchemy Engine- "I guess proximity activates the whirlygigs?"

Bernie (active)- "Is he clockwork? Can I peek inside?"

So she's clearly some sort of engineer and has a fascination with clockworks. In whatever factory she worked in, she clearly worked with machines, so the idea of controlling Clockworks would make more sense (and, goes without saying, way more interesting) than just some old tape. So I don't think her tape really covers it, or even fits at all with her character really (what kinda mechanic/engineer uses tape to fix machinery?)

Edit: And much less when that tape can only be used to mend clothes...I mean, for all the Feminism connotations that her character has, it's kinda odd that her main perk is  having a better Sewing Kit...

 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, BRUCER said:

Instead of being just a poor light source with glow berries and a rot trash compactor, Critters could find another use.

What if feeding your critter caused them to gain special abilities such as a sanity aura from Crafty, or a small damage boost (1.1x) from Scrappy? Just something to cater to one's playstyle or just assist with a task that one does constantly. Critters could also have innate abilities such as a Broodling rarely breathing fire to warm the player and provide light, or an Ewelet coughing up a small wad of phlegm that slows enemies when walked upon, etc. 

I just wish they were part of the natural environment. Like in Spring, you could find Critters around and adopt them. Varglings could hang around Hound Mounds, and Kittykits and Ewelets follow their mothers around.

Like Smallbirds basically. Add them to the world and not make them a craft-able accessory.  

[Faintly Macabre]

2 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

So she's clearly some sort of engineer and has a fascination with clockworks. In whatever factory she worked in, she clearly worked with machines, so the idea of controlling Clockworks would make more sense (and, goes without saying, way more interesting) than just some old tape. So I don't think her tape really covers it, or even fits at all with her character really (what kinda mechanic/engineer uses tape to fix machinery?)

No, she's clearly someone with an interest in machines, and she didn't clearly work with them. You've gotten even further off the mark now, because mechanic and engineer are not at all interchangeable. She worked on an assembly line; these things can involve machinery, but working with machinery does not automatically make one either a mechanic or an engineer -- there are plenty of more or less uneducated laypeople tightening bolts or measuring tension or the like on an assembly line. Her interest in machinery like clockworks could be purely unprofessional; an interest in engineering and mechanics is pretty natural for people who do work related to those fields.

The only thing she is "clearly" is an assembly line worker and a handywoman. Handypersons and duct tape are a gag that predates almost everyone here. Handypersons having amateur understandings of machinery is pretty common too.

P.S.: Using Rosie the Riveter as inspiration and not being stereotypically feminine does not make Winona's inclusion in the game a feminist statement.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

1 hour ago, Faintly Macabre said:

No, she's clearly someone with an interest in machines, and she didn't clearly work with them. You've gotten even further off the mark now, because mechanic and engineer are not at all interchangeable. She worked on an assembly line; these things can involve machinery, but working with machinery does not automatically make one either a mechanic or an engineer -- there are plenty of more or less uneducated laypeople tightening bolts or measuring tension or the like on an assembly line. Her interest in machinery like clockworks could be purely unprofessional; an interest in engineering and mechanics is pretty natural for people who do work related to those fields.

The only thing she is "clearly" is an assembly line worker and a handywoman. Handypersons and duct tape are a gag that predates almost everyone here. Handypersons having amateur understandings of machinery is pretty common too.

P.S.: Using Rosie the Riveter as inspiration and not being stereotypically feminine does not make Winona's inclusion in the game a feminist statement.

You know, this isn't a bad response, but two things:

First, we agree that Winona has a knowledge and passion for clockwork machines due to her quotes (unclear whether professional or not), so shouldn't this be reflected in her perks and abilities in some way?

Second, I think this proves what I was saying earlier: her character concept is so vague: 

She's Charlie sister, but also a handy-woman, which can mean anything from being a rocket scientist to taping boxes in a factory. Her design is... emm... Jimmy Neutron but as a feminist? I don't...And while you're right that it's not necessarily a feminist statement, the connotations are there regardless. Which I'm totally cool with btw, I just think, in terms of 'girl power', Wigfrid is a better embodiment of those ideals because Winona isn't particularly strong or useful, but again, that roots back to the fact that her character concept is all over the place. 

[Toroic]

2 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

 a handy-woman, which can mean anything from being a rocket scientist to taping boxes in a factory.

...what?

It means neither of those things, but definitely not the former.

[TheKingDedede]

I mean, when I think of a handy-woman, I think of someone fixing something. Fixing shingles on a roof or maintenance on a household appliance. Where you got 'rocket scientist' from, I haven't a clue.

[Mario384]

I will say that her quotes definitely seem to imply some interest in mechanics, though her title technically is "handywoman".  However, even if you agree tape fits "handywoman", it doesn't make her any less garbage, so what else could she have to make her a good character?  I definitely like the idea of "pawns", though maybe that's something for another time.  Right now, Winona is about as appealing as the fruitcake, so I'd love to hear some ideas to spice her up.

[Sinister_Fang]

Honestly, if her tape could fix at least mundane equipment, I'd be happy. I was dissapointed when I found out it was a sewing kit 2.0. Sewing kits are already easy enough to make. Adding a cheaper recipe was unneeded. I was really hoping she'd bring a much needed repair mechanic to the game, but she didn't. So I'll just stick with the repair combine mod.

[ShadowDuelist]

1 hour ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Honestly, if her tape could fix at least mundane equipment, I'd be happy. I was dissapointed when I found out it was a sewing kit 2.0. Sewing kits are already easy enough to make. Adding a cheaper recipe was unneeded. I was really hoping she'd bring a much needed repair mechanic to the game, but she didn't. So I'll just stick with the repair combine mod.

Repairing basic armor (football helmets, battle helmets, logsuits, marble armor) and basic tools (all flint and gold tools) was an echoing suggestion by tue community since her release, and given her original speechfiles (we got from the leak) it seems its how she was originally meant to be. Perhaps on the early testing the devs did, they found a terrible exploit and scrapped the idea altogether.

It's not that the devs owe us an explination or anything, and I'm happy (in a way) that we got a new char, but I feel that given the general backlash of the community and the agreement on her being dull, I'd expect some official improvement being made on her sooner or later.

Speaking of which, are there any decently balanced mods to make Winona better out there already?

[TheKingofSquirrels]

9 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

I mean, when I think of a handy-woman, I think of someone fixing something. Fixing shingles on a roof or maintenance on a household appliance. Where you got 'rocket scientist' from, I haven't a clue.

Mostly from this...

Also, her knowledge of Clockworks and engineering shown in her quotes.

7 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Speaking of which, are there any decently balanced mods to make Winona better out there already?

This one fixes her.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1134487532&searchtext=

[TheKingofSquirrels]

7 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Repairing basic armor (football helmets, battle helmets, logsuits, marble armor) and basic tools (all flint and gold tools) was an echoing suggestion by tue community since her release, and given her original speechfiles (we got from the leak) it seems its how she was originally meant to be. Perhaps on the early testing the devs did, they found a terrible exploit and scrapped the idea altogether.

 

The thing is...How useful was this really?

Being able to repair basic armour and basic tools, is that useful late game? You can just as easily craft new ones rather than repair them. Is this really worth choosing Winona over a character like Wicker, or pretty much literally anyone else, who has way better perks?

Now if she could repair items that were harder to craft, then that might be worth it.

But still...It's not that interesting.

The thing that makes a good character, is that it changes the way you play the game because they have a new mechanic that is specific to that character. They may have unique items, but more importantly it's their unique mechanic that set characters apart. Winona's play style is no different than Wilson's, because she has no unique mechanics. She has a unique item, but that's it. It's like if Wigfrid only had her Battle Spear and Helm, but none of her carnivore and fighting mechanics. Or Woody, just with his axe, but without a Werebeaver. 

This is why I still stand by my drone idea. She needs SOMETHING. A new mechanic. Tape isn't gonna cover it. Having a unique item isn't enough. Might as well be a new craftable available to everyone, because Winona character's will share it. 

[ProfessorAlpaca]

Clockwork-related features aside, what would make Winona much more enjoyable for me personally would be one simple change:

Cut her gathering animation in half just like her building animation. If Winona gathered twigs, grass, berries, etc twice as fast it would be such a nice quality of life change that I'd pick her over my main in a heartbeat.

[Sinister_Fang]

30 minutes ago, ProfessorAlpaca said:

Clockwork-related features aside, what would make Winona much more enjoyable for me personally would be one simple change:

Cut her gathering animation in half just like her building animation. If Winona gathered twigs, grass, berries, etc twice as fast it would be such a nice quality of life change that I'd pick her over my main in a heartbeat.

That would actually give her a nice synergy with Wickerbottom. Wicker books the farms, and Winona speeds up the harvesting process.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

3 hours ago, ProfessorAlpaca said:

Clockwork-related features aside, what would make Winona much more enjoyable for me personally would be one simple change:

Cut her gathering animation in half just like her building animation. If Winona gathered twigs, grass, berries, etc twice as fast it would be such a nice quality of life change that I'd pick her over my main in a heartbeat.

 

2 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

That would actually give her a nice synergy with Wickerbottom. Wicker books the farms, and Winona speeds up the harvesting process.

So what...She's the Flash now?

[1v0]

For me ... I expected her to have something more of a co-op feature , as the first character of DST . I mean as a special MP character you would expect something else and because of that I was disappointed when I saw her perks . Nothing special just an average character no big + but no - too . It's just average nothing really special with her ... I would prefer something like for example Wendy = I deal less dmg but my pet has an AOE attack . Big - but a good + in some situations , and the sanity perk is a nice bonus .
While here ok you make a sewing kit (easy to make item) but ... to be honest no one is going to pick her over the other characters just because of that . And those 0.5 faster is not something you can see/feel unless you have read her perks in the wiki .

As good item making character I can give an example with Wigfrid - the helm and the spear are really good mid lvl gear that you can make really early in your game , so it's a perfect pick for the every game . You don't have to make football helms or stuff like that only the more endgame helms are better than wigfrid helmet . So you and the others will be using them for a long time .

To put it in a few word - Her perks are nothing special for the first DST character . And I think many ppl (including me) expected something more ... special .

[TheKingofSquirrels]

8 minutes ago, 1v0 said:

For me ... I expected her to have something more of a co-op feature , as the first character of DST .

Exactly. Synergy with other characters should have been key in her development. 

[Sinister_Fang]

43 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

 

So what...She's the Flash now?

Nah, WX has that covered already.

[ProfessorAlpaca]

45 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

So what...She's the Flash now?

Yeah, I'd say overcharged Wx would still have that title for sure.

[Toroic]

9 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Mostly from this...

Also, her knowledge of Clockworks and engineering shown in her quotes.

This one fixes her.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1134487532&searchtext=

You're getting "rocket scientist" from a quick piece of art from the Rhymes with Play stream where she and Wilson are making a science machine?  That's only a slight bit above fanart to begin with, and if Wolfgang can make a science machine it's not an impressive feat.

Handyman is actually an informal job title revolving around odd jobs usually related to residential repair and maintenance but without formal training or certification.  They usually have a basic competency with things like plumbing, tiling, carpentry, drywalling, electrical but far less advanced than a tradesman in any of those areas.  They aren't mechanics, they aren't engineers, they aren't scientists as those require certification and/or education at a professional level.

Winona has an interest in clockworks but none of her quotes display any special understanding of them.