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Ancient Guardian Cheese Trick


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Klei should really do something about the Ancient Guardian getting stuck at pillars. It's a really cheesy & boring  way of killing the Ancient Guardian. A lot of people exploit it & it's really lame. Fighting the Ancient Guardian should be fun & challenging, not some cheesy one trick kill.

IMO they should remove the pillars or make the area bigger so he doesn't get stuck.

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He should teleport into the abyss when his health is low enough. The only way to kill him will be to use the Unteleportitator, which is given by domesticated Puffy beefalos after 70 days of continuous domestication. Though, these Puffy beefalos will only drop the item if for those 70 days, you only feed them farmplot crops.

My suggestion makes sure that items which are barely used will be used. I will throw a hissy fit if Clay doesn't implement this because my suggestion makes perfect sense and should be added into the game.

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I think just about every major boss in DST has pretty major cheese methods that reduce Klei's bosses to either 0 mechanics or only 1-2 things they can do to defend themselves, I personally prefer to do my bosses with legit strats as it's just more entertaining to play the game that way for myself, when solo or duo.

Others like shortcuts and just want to break things and collect loot, Klei in the past have stated that certain cheese is okay, which is a shame because they're really just saying "We want everybody to have a creative method of doing these fights, it makes it possible for everyone to see the loot/content". Rather than... "We want our fights to only work in the intended way that they were coded".

I understand their point of view on it, but it's a shame the latter isn't more sought after to give players a forced challenge rather than one you have to make a decision on accepting or not, while getting the loot either way.

Tl;dr I agree it's not as fun, especially when stuck with others who sort of force you to do the cheese way.

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2 hours ago, Cheetos said:

Klei in the past have stated that certain cheese is okay, which is a shame because they're really just saying "We want everybody to have a creative method of doing these fights, it makes it possible for everyone to see the loot/content". Rather than... "We want our fights to only work in the intended way that they were coded".

Ugh, don't you just hate it when games give you freedom?

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Just now, JellyUltra said:

Ugh, don't you just hate it when games give you freedom?

You can make a meme out of it all you want, but you know what I'm talking about isn't as simple as freedom of choice = ✔️ great must have ✔️. Or at least I would hope this isn't something you think should be broadly applied to video game design for boss fights lol.

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52 minutes ago, Nightfall said:

I feel like both Dragonfly and Ancient guardian could use a rework.

It seems like everyone beats them by cheesing the fight.

Well, Don't Starve hasvery limited fighting options: you either tank or kite. I'm fine with it since it's not supposed to be a fighting game, but it surely limits how you fight mobs.

 

So their solution to Bosses? Cheesy or not-so-cheesy strategies! I think this is great and adds a lot to the game, in my opinion. After all, you'll have to tank or kite the bosses anyway, but you have to come up with strategies to make it viable without 100 armors, helmets and healing items.

 

So you have to get rid of Dragonfly's lavae and deal with its enraged mode. You have to deal with Bee Queen's minion bees and the honey tracks she leaves. You have to deal with Ewecus mucus and Varg's hounds. It's basically the same thing, but with a catch and that catch makes it interesting as you have to come up with different methods for different bosses. 

 

Except this Ancient Guardian getting stuck thingy, of course.

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Here's the thing though, even if it was patched, the fight is so dull. If you want players to fight him the legit way, you also have to make that way not suck. He's a reskinned Bishop with an uppercut. By that logic spider queen should be a reskinned spider warrior but it can also jump into the air and land down in another spot from the sky.

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7 minutes ago, AnonymousKoala said:

Here's the thing though, even if it was patched, the fight is so dull. If you want players to fight him the legit way, you also have to make that way not suck. He's a reskinned Bishop with an uppercut. By that logic spider queen should be a reskinned spider warrior but it can also jump into the air and land down in another spot from the sky.

I agree. The Ancient guardian fight is very dull. You dodge and hit once. I do not know how I would suggest changing it to make him more interesting, while keeping the theme.

 

I really like toadstool and antlion's boss fight. AOE attacks works really well.

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1 minute ago, Nightfall said:

I agree. The Ancient guardian fight is very dull. You dodge and hit once. I do not know how I would suggest changing it to make him more interesting, while keeping the theme.

 

I really like toadstool and antlion's boss fight. AOE attacks works really well.

They're not interesting because of AOE, it's because they work like the better fights in this game. They involve another system.

Antlion telegraphs her spikes but she also traps you with essentially walls and a torch is actually a good asset in this fight. Toad has spores which add a new threat and require cooperation so you dont place a cloud in the wrong place and harm your friends, sporecaps(trees, but if not chopped, they power him up), and he uses earthquakes as well. Klaus is a simple fight but he's followed by 2 assisting deers who can't be killed or else he'll go berserk. 

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I thing it's not that spoiling that these cheesy methods exist in-game, because you can just avoid using them if you'd like so, but they are good for not that experienced players. I  know the game could be "you get the guardian horn only if you can kill it properly", which would be more challenging and rewarding, but it seems Klei also doesn't want to make DST less uncompromising than DS.

1 hour ago, Nightfall said:

I feel like both Dragonfly and Ancient guardian could use a rework.

It seems like everyone beats them by cheesing the fight.

Maybe the AG could be a little bit changed to make it more interesting, but in general I'm pleased with both bosses, they are not impossible to kill (even solo). With gunpowder, if not else, and that's a fully legit way to kill bosses, further more, it has been recently nerfed to spice it up a bit. 

Dragonfly is hard, of course, but it isn't that hard (just time consuming) to learn how to kill it without dying. I use an ornery beefalo, for example, and need only a few dragonpies for the fight.

40 minutes ago, verm1ll1on said:

Well, Don't Starve hasvery limited fighting options: you either tank or kite. I'm fine with it since it's not supposed to be a fighting game, but it surely limits how you fight mobs.

There are other ways too for the most of the bosses, like gunpowder (which I used quite a lot earlier) or bringing followers to help the fight, or even more in some special cases like running to a Goose/Goose in a frog rain.

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And again the great 0.00x% of total player base wants HARDER boss fights. Jolly-good, lads!

But what about the rest ...say rhetorical over 99% of players? That good hunk of them who can't even properly fight a pig or spider? The ones that barely survive winter and run in terror from Deer? Sure, "git gud"! And that requires time and hard work invested, the kind most DST owners don't have. Bosses should be tackled by most of them players and there should be various methods of doing so, not just kite-and/or-tank. Game being a sandbox it should encourage creativity ("cheese" too, even more so if it's fun as in amusing) and being inclusive. You want everything harder after you've reached an end-thingy-level? Go for self-imposed challenges. Don't demand a higher general bar when all the rest struggle. Or use mods. Plus look: EdgyToad is now available, go for it if harder is what you seek - I personally would think about taking him on ONLY if this is a viable thing. Meanwhile, just for s*its-and-giggles, in all pubs I'll be playing from now on will Misery-morph Toad, heh; because someone must bring surprise happiness to try-hards as well :rolleyes:

 

Oh, if 'bragging rights' is what you seek ("lot of people exploit it & it's really lame"), maybe demand Klei disable console commands? Even with Misery Toadstool one can just activate god mode, one-punch it to smithereens and go "Looky her', me sole spidrun Edgy R...Toad I mean, mi greit, nau bow to greit mi peons!" That much about being 'legit'.

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49 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

And again the great 0.00x% of total player base wants HARDER boss fights. Jolly-good, lads!

In this case, the point is more wanting a stable boss fight than a harder one. Because the normal difficulty is when the boss doesn't bug and isn't stuck into pillars.

Having others ways to manage a boss is fine, having diversity is fine.

Having bugs isn't fine, and Klei patched some bugs recently, even bugs the community liked or abused. And since it's the case, players should prepare to see the bug corrected (and enjoy it as long it will last), not asking to not change anything because they are fine with it.

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10 minutes ago, Lumina said:

In this case, the point is more wanting a stable boss fight than a harder one. Because the normal difficulty is when the boss doesn't bug and isn't stuck into pillars.

Having others ways to manage a boss is fine, having diversity is fine.

Having bugs isn't fine, and Klei patched some bugs recently, even bugs the community liked or abused. And since it's the case, players should prepare to see the bug corrected (and enjoy it as long it will last), not asking to not change anything because they are fine with it.

Well that's something to be seen in the future. It might be corrected, or it might not - depends if Klei sees it as a bug.

Anyway I can think of at least 3 more "cheese" strategies in dealing with Ancient Guardian that don't require the boring (for me) kiting - I prefer investing my time in exploration, elaborate constructions, traps, pitting mobs against each other (I find it very funny) and such; but then again I'm probably in a single digit percentage as well.

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This is not a competitive game. Why would one care about how others play it?

If that happens on your server, talk with your friends and decide how do you want to play. If not, what is the problem for you?

There are a lot of players who play with lag, or for whatever reason they don't want to risk themselves so they have the possibility to play it safe. Also, the bosses in this game are designed for multiplayer, so looking for tricks to outsmart the enemies is a very useful thing. Be it build a fight arena, use Wicker tentacles or use the terrain on your favour.

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1 hour ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

And again the great 0.00x% of total player base wants HARDER boss fights. Jolly-good, lads!

Isn't that a little silly though? that wanting something to work as it's intended by code correlates to wanting "harder boss fights" for you :l. I really don't think DST fights are as hard as people make them out to be, just the shortcuts are significantly easier paths to the same rewards. I don't feel like a try-hard killing them. Is it not interesting that if you can't kill something yet in a game, that you can improve enough to kill it regularly? I hope people don't see any current DST fight as impossible otherwise and get disheartened and give up.

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Well, this isn't exactly a game with very rich fight mechanics which doesn't make it less interesting to me at least. The only fights that actually require you to do something different than swinging and dodging are Klaus depending on how you approach it, Toad, Fuelweaver and to some extent the Bee queen. Someone was talking about MLG fights in DST the other day in another thread. I almost fell laughing. 

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3 hours ago, AnonymousKoala said:

Here's the thing though, even if it was patched, the fight is so dull. If you want players to fight him the legit way, you also have to make that way not suck. He's a reskinned Bishop with an uppercut. By that logic spider queen should be a reskinned spider warrior but it can also jump into the air and land down in another spot from the sky.

BISHOPUPPERCUT.png

Koala pls.

now a bishop with an uppercut sounds kinda cool though

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23 minutes ago, Cheetos said:

Isn't that a little silly though? that wanting something to work as it's intended by code correlates to wanting "harder boss fights" for you :l. I really don't think DST fights are as hard as people make them out to be, just the shortcuts are significantly easier paths to the same rewards. I don't feel like a try-hard killing them. Is it not interesting that if you can't kill something yet in a game, that you can improve enough to kill it regularly? I hope people don't see any current DST fight as impossible otherwise and get disheartened and give up.

I'm not a coder and I don't know if is the "work as it's intended by code" case or not. I see a stomping big foe that goes in a straight line and then a huge pillar; getting the 2 of them together with a "Hmmmm!" seems logical as in less dangerous and probably less armor consuming. I would be fine if the boss 'realizes' at one point the futility of just running against said pillar and then trying to get me from the other side. Otherwise I proverbially sweep it under carpet excusing its IQ with a giggle - "Oh, that dumb beast!", pommeling the cr@p out of it, laughing at the situation - and it sure is fun. But if you say "get rid of pillars, monster must stomp you and you dodge, that's intended" I would again go "Hmmmm!", NOPE! I'm not going with the 1-kite-dodge thing as is just waste of my time, danger or not (with right amount of armor and healing items you can even tank it so minimal skill involved). If you like that, sure, your game experience. I just state the obvious present situation and how I (and probably many others) don't perceive it as a bug ("Oh, that dumb beast, hehe!"). Is it "cheese" regarding 'legit' stuff try-hards advocate? It sure is, and a fun one indeed - as my goal in DST is not the fighting part, is loot and doing elaborate constructions. So, again, we will see if Klei is in your sentiment or not, aka viewing it as a bug. Either way I for one will still look for the shortcut in dealing with bosses because "Hmmmm, hehe!".

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3 minutes ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

I'm not a coder and I don't know if is the "work as it's intended by code" case or not. I see a stomping big foe that goes in a straight line and then a huge pillar; getting the 2 of them together with a "Hmmmm!" seems logical as in less dangerous and probably less armor consuming. I would be fine if the boss 'realizes' at one point the futility of just running against said pillar and then trying to get me from the other side. Otherwise I proverbially sweep it under carpet excusing its IQ with a giggle - "Oh, that dumb beast!", pommeling the cr@p out of it, laughing at the situation - and it sure is fun. But if you say "get rid of pillars, monster must stomp you and you dodge, that's intended" I would again go "Hmmmm!", NOPE! I'm not going with the 1-kite-dodge thing as is just waste of my time, danger or not (with right amount of armor and healing items you can even tank it so minimal skill involved). If you like that, sure, your game experience. I just state the obvious present situation and how I (and probably many others) don't perceive it as a bug ("Oh, that dumb beast, hehe!"). Is it "cheese" regarding 'legit' stuff try-hards advocate? It sure is, and a fun one indeed - as my goal in DST is not the fighting part, is loot and doing elaborate constructions. So, again, we will see if Klei is in your sentiment or not, aka viewing it as a bug. Either way I for one will still look for the shortcut in dealing with bosses because "Hmmmm, hehe!".

Yeah, and about having to actually dodge the guardian... First of all if you are a client it's virtually impossible due to lag. Second it takes ages. Yes the bastard has lots of DPS and he rips trough armor like nothing, but I still tank him. Not because I cant dodge him, but because it would take an eternity.

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