An overview of the game as it is (and a poll asking for what you want after ANR)

[SrJardel]

Spoiler

Just wanted to point out about Steam Family Sharing being limited at some point. If they cared enough, I think they would have done something already in order to prevent non DST owners from earning skin drops.
 
The silk walls/flooring is cool. I'm not always tunned at the news, but I think is was planned at some point, given what I've seen while working on translation.
 
Now I don't even remember what else in this post I liked or disliked, as I've been reading every single message until here. I don't get why all the fingers pointed at the op. I'm sorry, but I was not here when "things went down", and given the information I got here, I find a bit odd that such a disturbing user would still be allowed to participate on discussions at this point, if you know what I mean.
 
I also don't understand, op has a picture showing almost 2k hours played, but two people said he barely played the game. So, idk, in fact it doesn't matter on the topic, it only does for me because I couldn't understand such situation.
 
To the op and overall, I play DST since launch. But maybe I've spent more time working on my mods and messing around files than actually playing the game. Maybe, just maybe.
 
Anyways, there are still a lot of stuff untouched on my side. Like, most of cave/ruins exploring, tier3/4/5 crafting, surviving more than 300 days, etc... It's been a long time we've been playing on a 4 shard server here in my house, and yet I have still plenty of stuff to do in this game. And this is for real, I avoid all the spoiler I can, and eventually even need to jump on the wiki to know more about this or that while I advance ingame.
 
Not on topic, but after playing DS for the first time back in 2014, I went through Adventure Mode for the first time five days ago only. My wife was busy with other stuff and I went to play DS a bit while I was waiting for her. Then I found the portal and entered it. For the firsr time. It was exciting. I also never played as Maxwell, Wes, Woodie or Wx.
 
Given this situation, I am surely on the casual side of the community, and I'm not the picture of the overall DST player, but I believe that even being not the majority, there are a lot of people like me which are no pros, but are still part of the fanbase. And, as someone said already in a message above, the simplicity of this game is one(one of them) key factor. I also would not like to duck, and roll, and jump and stuff. Really, I wouldn't.
 
I voted on upcoming content because I like to have options. And I also would like to see the game's lore growing strong, or maybe even be able to play in The Moon. I am sure op and many others would like it as well. As I said, I use to avoid spoilers, so I am able to enjoy old stuff as like if it were news. It is a thing for me, it works on my side, this is the way I've been doing with my Steam library. So, by upcoming content I am not thinking about cosmetics, temporary events or small additions, but rather relative expansions/overhauls. Even characters, as much as I think the actual ones are enough, I would really like to see Wilton and Winnie's debut. Imho Wallace were a more interesting person than what Woodlegs ended up being, but... Oh, also that witch, what a fancy character imo, I forgot her name, but I'm sure you guys remember her. I know there are mods out there, but as much as they are very well developed, it is not the same, you know. Mods have no guarantee of following the game's evolutive direction, neither of being included on the lore, so, these are my complains regards playing as modded characters.
 
Back to the poll, I didn't know I could vote multiple choices, but fixing the actual bugs/performance is indeed necessary before going any further on new content. Not that I have complains about it at the moment tho, in my experience I hardly find any major bug or disturbance, and I have no performance issues. But they exist and surely I would vote this options if I knew I could.
 

Thats it, maybe I edit this if necessary, I always make mistakes when trying to express myself, but it is pretty much it I had to say.

[Donke60]

Just now, CaptainChaotica said:

 

Actually, for anybody here who wasn't around when...things went down a few months ago, Euededewhatever used to post these kinds of things CONSTANTLY.  He thinks we're all an echo-chamber of constant praise (we're not--I myself posted passionately about fixing smallbirds just a bit ago, for example), that he is the only one standing up to say The Real Truth, is _obsessed_ with griefers & looters--while also thinking that he should be able to just grab things out of other people's chests if needed without even asking first, and last but not least, has a five-page-long MANIFESTO of changes he thinks the game desperately needs--which are actually all just "tailor it to _me_."

However, I'll give him this--this is way more polite than he used to be.  He used to go around calling people "idiots" if they disagreed with him and then insulting you a lot MORE if you got upset about this!  So, he can improve--although it took us like three entire threads of explaining the very _concept_ of "People's feelings DO matter" and "Dropping the subject IS, in fact, a thing"...and like two or three Admin warnings!. 

This is at least _only_ the manifesto without the implications along the way that those who disagree are stupid or inferior.  (Why all this bitterness?  Look.  Up. The archives.  Only don't, unless you want a headache.)  It's a MASSIVE improvement compared to his old posts.

Then again, I still don't _get_ it...WHY is somebody who has apparently only barely played the game at all THIS OBSESSED with it, to the point that he'll post multiple-page fine-point screeds about alll the percieved problems...MANY MANY TIMES?!

(I'm not kidding, I've honestly lost track.  Nearly every single thread he starts is for the purpose of complaining. There's not thinking the game is _perfect_, and then there's THIS.)

 

I would like if you didn't constanly bring up Euede's past repuation on the forums, out of respect for him.

My post was to be only taken as a joke given his past history.

[CaptainChaotica]

Well, I can't go back and edit it NOW, considering you quoted my entire post...(a practice that kinda annoys me in general--it just takes up unnecessary space.  If you want to quote and/or respond to _part_ of something someone said, just quote that part!)

Also...I'm not the only one.  Others asked why he keeps posting only negative things all the time as well.  It's a question that's been baffling us all for several months.

And "out of respect for him"?  That would require me to have some--I'm the one he kicked around the most.  Yes, it was a long time ago but it was AWFUL.  I _can_ forgive, but the amount of time it takes is kinda directly proportional to what the other person did.  And when he posts--A-FREAKING-GAIN! a many-page list of all the game's many, desperate--as perceived by him--problems and starts it off with not something reasonable like "I think the game has some problems that still need to be addressed" but rather, "The game is BROKEN"...

Well, that brought back all the old negative feelings--can you blame me?  WE'RE ALL FREAKING SICK OF IT!!  If he could post something _positive_--it doesn't even have to be about the game, he could talk about a great sandwich he just had, or his favourite TV show!--once.  Just ONCE!  I'd completely drop it.

He's said before that he's not _capable_ of being positive.  I don't buy that for a minute.  Can't...or WON'T?  Dude, we're not asking you to give up constant, draining negativity FOREVER--just take a teensy break so we can all finally get a breath of fresh air, okay?

(For those of you who weren't here..I'm not kidding, every single time he posts, it's something like this. I'm not just making this up--those of us who were here earlier actually DO have a legit reason to be pissed off.  He posts a lot less frequently now...but STILL the same old stuff!)

...Notorious

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

9 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

1) Actually, for anybody here who wasn't around when...things went down a few months ago, Euededewhatever used to post these kinds of things CONSTANTLY.  He thinks we're all an echo-chamber of constant praise (we're not--I myself posted passionately about fixing smallbirds just a bit ago, for example), that he is the only one standing up to say The Real Truth, is _obsessed_ with griefers & looters--while also thinking that he should be able to just grab things out of other people's chests if needed without even asking first, and last but not least, has a five-page-long MANIFESTO of changes he thinks the game desperately needs--which are actually all just "tailor it to _me_."

2) However, I'll give him this--this is way more polite than he used to be.  He used to go around calling people "idiots" if they disagreed with him and then insulting you a lot MORE if you got upset about this!  So, he can improve--although it took us like three entire threads of explaining the very _concept_ of "People's feelings DO matter" and "Dropping the subject IS, in fact, a thing"...and like two or three Admin warnings!. 

3) This is at least _only_ the manifesto without the implications along the way that those who disagree are stupid or inferior.  (Why all this bitterness?  Look.  Up. The archives.  Only don't, unless you want a headache.)  It's a MASSIVE improvement compared to his old posts.

4) Then again, I still don't _get_ it...WHY is somebody who has apparently only barely played the game at all THIS OBSESSED with it, to the point that he'll post multiple-page fine-point screeds about alll the percieved problems...MANY MANY TIMES?!

5) (I'm not kidding, I've honestly lost track.  Nearly every single thread he starts is for the purpose of complaining. There's not thinking the game is _perfect_, and then there's THIS.)

6) That said, I did vote, and I like a lot of these options (not the #2 one though), but the main one I went for was the "port things between the games" thing.  Not so much for Don't Sink Together, fun as that would be.  Oh no.  "Port between the games" can go BOTH ways, and singleplayer could really use a Together-only-content injection.  Not even the _earlier_ stuff has made it there yet.  Nurse, I'll need an injection of twiggy trees and juicy berry bushes, a beefalo-taming bandage, and an IV of continuing to gather resources while carrying something in your cursor "hand", stat!

...Notorious

Oh my god, can you stop this bullcrap please?

I'm sick of you spreading rumors which you have no idea are true. Add to that "taking things without asking", I've explained many times, yet for some reason, "politeness" is more important than meeting once need in time. Suit yourself then, but I highly doubt this whole asking thing was something even the devs had in mind. And I do ask people sometimes, especially when I'm in a group; asking whether something that has been collected has something in mind to be used before I use it to craft something else, for instance. Stop going to every single thread I make to put me in this light of shame, will you? If you've nothing productive to give to the thread, get out! All of what I wrote are simply suggestions. What, can I not provide suggestions to the devs all of a sudden, like everyone else has, just because you don't agree with them? What are you, what is your mind set? Are you even human?

2) No, I didn't "go around calling everybody an idiot". You're over-exaggerating, like you always do, simply because you hate me that much for having a different mindset than you. Yes, I did insult some people every now and then, even though I then apologized for that. You on the other hand, spewed all of this bullcrap at me and CONTINUE TO DO SO without regret. The utter hypocrisy in you is astonishing.

3) 

See, you're LITERALLY, trying to put me down for my past. What is your goddamn problem?!

4) " somebody who has apparently only barely played the game at all "

Get out of this thread. GET OUT! You're not providing ANYTHING productive to it, you're just trying to start a flame war.

5) " (I'm not kidding, I've honestly lost track.  Nearly every single thread he starts is for the purpose of complaining. There's not thinking the game is _perfect_, and then there's THIS.) "

... There's what? There's what, Chaotica? Where is what? Wtf are you talking about?

Yeap, definitely looks like so -.-

6) Thanks for voting in the poll, but... what? What if the rest of the paragraph even about? You don't like that some of the options in the poll? What's your problem now?

[AnonymousKoala]

28 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Oh my god, can you stop this bullcrap please?

I'm sick of you spreading rumors which you have no idea are true. Add to that "taking things without asking", I've explained many times, yet for some reason, "politeness" is more important than meeting once need in time. Suit yourself then, but I highly doubt this whole asking thing was something even the devs had in mind. And I do ask people sometimes, especially when I'm in a group; asking whether something that has been collected has something in mind to be used before I use it to craft something else, for instance. Stop going to every single thread I make to put me in this light of shame, will you? If you've nothing productive to give to the thread, get out! All of what I wrote are simply suggestions. What, can I not provide suggestions to the devs all of a sudden, like everyone else has, just because you don't agree with them? What are you, what is your mind set? Are you even human?

2) No, I didn't "go around calling everybody an idiot". You're over-exaggerating, like you always do, simply because you hate me that much for having a different mindset than you. Yes, I did insult some people every now and then, even though I then apologized for that. You on the other hand, spewed all of this bullcrap at me and CONTINUE TO DO SO without regret. The utter hypocrisy in you is astonishing.

3) 

See, you're LITERALLY, trying to put me down for my past. What is your goddamn problem?!

4) " somebody who has apparently only barely played the game at all "

 

Get out of this thread. GET OUT! You're not providing ANYTHING productive to it, you're just trying to start a flame war.

5) " (I'm not kidding, I've honestly lost track.  Nearly every single thread he starts is for the purpose of complaining. There's not thinking the game is _perfect_, and then there's THIS.) "

... There's what? There's what, Chaotica? Where is what? Wtf are you talking about?

Yeap, definitely looks like so -.-

6) Thanks for voting in the poll, but... what? What if the rest of the paragraph even about? You don't like that some of the options in the poll? What's your problem now?

>Yet for some reason, Politeness is more important than meeting once need in time.

Apply this to a real life situation. Unless you're actually about to die or in danger, there aren't any situations where being polite isn't a thing you need to be. You don't go to a resturant and immediatly tell the Waitress your entire order, and then for every minute she doesn't come back with your food, you shout at her to hurry up, right? That would be rude and would also get you nothing. You then go on to say you're usually polite, and I don't want to go into a personal attack so I'll stop commenting about this part.

>"Even though I then apologized for that."

You never did. I've been here since your debut as EuedeAdodooedoe, the only apology you've ever given is in the form of your signature, who again, if I will have to comment on, would go very quickly to a personal attack which would be a bad way to end a civilized discussion.

>See, you're LITERALLY, trying to put me down for my past. What is your goddamn problem?!

That's basic human behaviour. Sure, not all of her actions were objectively the right call, but she's not actively harassing or anything. We all want past occurances to be forgotten, and they never do, unless we make a big enough change. 

>and now back to what you said when you quoted me:

Your praises are not about the gameplay. You praised nearly every part but the gameplay. That's why I'm curious. If you dislike it so much, why do you keep playing? If you like these other aspects instead, you're better off watching.

Oh and the comment about having only 9 hours was directed at the review Glhrmzz and You linked to. I saw you misunderstood that response. 

 

[RetRunt]

I'm willing to pay more for an expansion or DLC so that Klei can do more stuff with Don't Starve Together!

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@AnonymousKoala I think this is going way too off-topic, so I'll just sent you a PM.

[AnonymousKoala]

Just now, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

@AnonymousKoala I think this is going way too off-topic, so I'll just sent you a PM.

Please no. 

I might be interested in why do you still play DS but I am not going to reply to any PMs about the subject. 

[ImDaMisterL]

This thread is going very off-topic and starting to get a bit flameful.

Respect each other. If this thread and Euede's opinions annoy you that much, simply don't post here, and if he offends someone, don't comment on it, just report it.

I don't want to have to lock this thread, but let's go back to actually discussing the game, Euede's points, new points and how Klei could make it better. That's the purpose of this thread.

Thank you all for understanding and have a wonderful day

[Wexton]

Well,about this topic i have 2 things to say:

First of,Eueueuedoe may have done a lot of negative post,but i also remember seeing a bunch of jokes on them so its not THAT negative,also if people is so upset of the negative post,simply don't look at them.What's the problem exacly?OH NO,ITS FILLING THE FORUM WITH NEGATIVE POSTS,IMPURE,CALL THE POTATO CUP! simply if you hate the suggestions that much,Just don't read them,you know:Out of sight,out of mind.

Back to the topic,on my opinion once they are done with ANR they should work on porting some bugs fixes,and some mecanics,just some(obiusly they won't port the cartograper desk,for example)

[RetRunt]

Oh, by the way, using this command "c_select() c_sel():Remove()" crashes your game either immediately or after a few minutes.

[FTR]

Quote

Replayability is lacking and there’s not much going on later on in the game. It’s all the same, rinse and repeat.

In my opinion this is nothing you can complain about because it always a case with Don't Starve. People were mostly okay with it and going for day 1000 anyway. Sure they could add some more things in end game, which they are by adding more bosses.

Quote

It might be due to this very reason why devs might not want to erase griefing completely; because it’s fun for some people

This is terrible logic. It's like saying "well maybe we shouldn't punish thieving because it's fun and also source of income for many people". Entertainment in any game SHOULD NOT be at cost of other players, especially when it's griefing.

Quote

Imagine being able to jump, leap or crouch in order to avoid certain enemy attacks

Kiting in this game has fairly high skillcap in my opinion without things like leaping or jumping. You need to know enemy attack pattern and have some good reaction time. Some enemies are easier to kite then others. To me clockworks are hard to kite and Bearger is perfect example of boss that's perfectly balanced, it's difficult to kite, but it's rewarding when you get it right, after learn his attack pattern. Good example for this is Dark Souls 3. It has no crouching or jumping (there is jumping but it has no use in combat), only roll to avoid attacks, and it has one of most satisfying combat in games. The only thing I could see that would work and do not break the game (by making it way too easy) is maybe shield item that would replace your weapon, so all you can do is block/agro enemy. That would encourage some teamwork. But to me it still would be just gimmick that I wouldn't even need or want to use.

Quote

The amount of times people have asked me “how do I split a stack” is irritating, not counting the times when I had to literally be a human wiki for newcomers.

Learning curve in Don't Starve is indeed weird. In the beggining you have to learn SO MUCH and very QUICKLY if you want to stay alive. In the end, once you are experienced player, you learn new things rather slow and just research fancy mechanics you can possibly use. I think it's okay tho. No problem in helping new players, as long as they want to be helped and not just "vote regenerate world".

 

I love Klei, I truly do. I love Don't Starve as well (my 2nd most played game on steam) but it sure has it flaws.

But in my opinion, there are only two flaws that are really bad and desperately need attention.

First of all, griefing issue, mainly because of terrible voting system. People created many threads about it and nothing is being done, I don't think klei even acknowledges the problem. Second issue comes directly from the first one, I don't think Klei is listening to community feedback and suggestions. Because if they would, voting system would be remodelled long time ago. Public servers are unplayable as for now. Klei should fix bugs and other things before adding more new content.

 

Right now all voting system does effecively it's reseting worlds by griefers. Kicking doesn't even work because you can just avoid it by leaving the server, so good luck dealing with griefers.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

1 hour ago, FTR said:

1) In my opinion this is nothing you can complain about because it always a case with Don't Starve. People were mostly okay with it and going for day 1000 anyway. Sure they could add some more things in end game, which they are by adding more bosses.

2) This is terrible logic. It's like saying "well maybe we shouldn't punish thieving because it's fun and also source of income for many people. Entertainment in any game SHOULD NOT be at cost of other players, especially when it's griefing.

3) Kiting in this game has fairly high skillcap in my opinion without things like leaping or jumping. You need to know enemy attack pattern and have some good reaction time. Some enemies are easier to kite then others. To me clockworks are hard to kite and Bearger is perfect example of boss that's perfectly balanced, it's difficult to kite, but it's rewarding when you get it right, after learn his attack pattern. Good example for this is Dark Souls 3. It has no crouching or jumping (there is jumping but it has no use in combat), only roll to avoid attacks, and it has one of most satisfying combat in games. The only thing I could see that would work and do not break the game (by making it way too easy) is maybe shield item that would replace your weapon, so all you can do is block/agro enemy. That would encourage some teamwork. But to me it still would be just gimmick that I wouldn't even need or want to use.

4) Learning curve in Don't Starve is indeed weird. In the beggining you have to learn SO MUCH and very QUICKLY if you want to stay alive. In the end, once you are experienced player, you learn new things rather slow and just research fancy mechanics you can possibly use. I think it's okay tho. No problem in helping new players, as long as they want to be helped and not just "vote regenerate world".

 

I love Klei, I truly do. I love Don't Starve as well (my 2nd most played game on steam) but it sure has it flaws.

But in my opinion, there are only two flaws that are really bad and desperately need attention.

5) First of all, griefing issue, mainly because of terrible voting system. People created many threads about it and nothing is being done, I don't think klei even acknowledges the problem. Second issue comes directly from the first one, I don't think Klei is listening to community feedback and suggestions. Because if they would, voting system would be remodelled long time ago. Public servers are unplayable as for now. Klei should fix bugs and other things before adding more new content.

 

Right now all voting system does effecively it's reseting worlds by griefers. Kicking doesn't even work because you can just avoid it by leaving the server, so good luck dealing with griefers.

1) Devs explicitly stated that TTA would be looking more at the end-game content. Then they replaced it with ANR. Question is, does the end-game idea still stand? Or are they just adding new content to which you can spend more time in the game to which you essentially will have things being very repetitive anyway? So far it seems the latter, but I would really like their input on this.

2) Ikr, terrible logic. I am not advocating for it, simply that I presented example(s) of people enjoying griefing (i.e. through positive reviews from steam) and because I've heard somebody mention that devs themselves said during stream that they don't want to eradicate griefing  completely and that the former might be the reason why. If you've problem with this mindset, it's the devs that have it (as far as I know), not me.

3) If you look at it from a mechanic standpoint... it's actually not. There's only a few understandings of inputs you need to understand, all of which can be summarized in two videos pretty much: 

Roughly 15 minutes and you already know how to fight pretty much everything in the game. I've never really understood why people want everything so simple. The game can still feel like Don't Starve, perhaps even more so like Don't Starve as you felt about the game at the time you were a noob (unless you read the wiki or something and never were a noob to begin with), with so many things being new, scary, keeping you on the edge with the ambiance, sounds, what you see on screen and so much more. The time when Shipwrecked first turned a lot of things upside-down, I found that some people really liked the fact that the game turned them pretty noobish (including myself) again. So, why slightly more complex/more advanced AI for various things being something to dismiss as features to be added in a game aimed at the kind of survival that DS initially brings, I am really not sure of. Perhaps it's the whole "dozens of stats" that people wouldn't really be fond of, which I've been suggesting and it's understandable. You don't need for the game to have a bunch of stats to make it more complex in its mechanics and to a point where the good old feeling of you being vulnerable comes back again, as with having multitude of enemy attacks, which each affect you differently, or simply the one energy stat, harder recipes with slower thriving, larger map with so much unkown and map not being available at the start of the game... so much potential to affect the player in their feel about the game and in general make it harder even if you technically become a professional at it. Because right now, all we're getting is a bunch of optional content to "give players something to do", nothing that majorly impacts your play style. Perhaps it's because when you become a pro or start out as a pro, you get into the mind set that the game needs to be majorly about combating things by hitting them, like a top-down melee version of first-person-shooters, instead of using various methods to avoid being killed and thrive and survive along the way, be it hiding, running away, engaging in the combat or whatever else in-between. So, perhaps a question we may ask is: do players overall want the game to be more about the survival and creepy atmosphere of the game or about combat? Not sure if I should create a thread about this, but I would cast a vote for the survival and creepy atmosphere, because at core this fits the art style that it is trying present.

In short, with the direction the game is going right now, it's much less of "everything is out to kill you" and more like "you are out to kill everything". Is that what you, fanbase, really want the game to have and be like?

"and it has one of most satisfying combat in games" what do you mean by satisfying? As in something like being instinctively glad you can beat a giant bear with just hit and run? If so, I would argue that's kind of a bad thing and imho the combat in the game should, at least for larger mobs be more intense to really bring in the feel of the game as it is to you when you start off as a newbie.

4) So, you point out an irritating aspect of the game design, but dismiss it? I... don't understand. I'm very certain that if the game showed you all of the options with all of the keys that you can do with a certain item/object while hovering over it (e.g. for a food item, you would have displayed Ctrl + Left Click and next to it "split stack", Left Click and next to it "take" or "pick", Right Click and next to it "eat", Alt + Left Click to "examine" etc. so the player knows how to interact with something without having to accidentally stumble upon how to interact with something and possibly not even recalling what they did and how or getting it from the forums, wiki, other players etc.). Of course, something like "needing an axe to chop down a tree" might not be labeled on the tree until you actually have an axe equipped, but at the most basic level, it would really help and would be good for better game design if all of the actions that you can at the time interact with were displayed even if you're not some genius who knows to press Ctrl, Shift or Alt when interacting with certain items.

5) From my observations, it seems that some issues which keep getting reported and them possibly not wanting to or it being too big of a bother or whatever else is what they turn a blind eye to, whilst the most recent things, like with ANR all the attention is payed. Like, for instance, V2C responded to the thread which talked about the new Bee Queen theme and how it was given to Dragonfly and after some people said they liked the theme staying as the Bee Queen's, it got switched, same with Marble Shrubs, which were set to grow at a slower rate, whilst something like Pengulls bug or long essays of various bugs and things that irritate players from ages ago to this day that are not related to recent content get nearly no attention at all: no responses, no actions, utter silence. I am a bit butt-hurt about that (and I'm sure many others are too) because there's nothing we can really do either, unless we know how to code the game through mods to fix the issues they can't be bothered to/don't have much clue on how to or whatever else. I wonder how it would be like if these old issues were brought to the devs during DS/DST streams by the players...

[Vargling]

It's not up to the devs to fix griefing. Why the hell should they remove useful things because of one troll abusing it? Blanket punishment is terrible, and the nerfed characters suck. It is up to the ADMINS to ADMINISTRATE their server, do not blame the developers. Use a password, host your own server. You have many options. Blaming the devs is not one.

EDIT: And before anyone says I'm lying, the ghosts are nothing compared to what they used to be. Now they're literally useless, back then they could be a little useful, and it removed teaching noobs not to haunt every damn thing. I miss the old system...

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

43 minutes ago, Vargling said:

It's not up to the devs to fix griefing. Why the hell should they remove useful things because of one troll abusing it? Blanket punishment is terrible, and the nerfed characters suck. It is up to the ADMINS to ADMINISTRATE their server, do not blame the developers. Use a password, host your own server. You have many options. Blaming the devs is not one.

EDIT: And before anyone says I'm lying, the ghosts are nothing compared to what they used to be. Now they're literally useless, back then they could be a little useful, and it removed teaching noobs not to haunt every damn thing. I miss the old system...

Because it saves a lot of effort, time, would not destroy friendships as much and instead of one person looking to make sure nobody does anything bad, it's the game that does this automatically pretty much. Plus, if someone griefs and harms others, cheating is essentially what people need to resort to, i.e. rollback or respawning things back in? Why should people be worried about problems that can be easily fixed over time with the game getting updated? The ghosts are not "completely useless", in fact there's quite a few things you can exploit with them, like pig torches or turning normal petals into evil ones. Then again, I don't think ghosts are a good way to render death in this game, at least not in the way they are presented right now, but that's a whole another topic.

How is this in any way good game design? If it's not, then it is the game's problem and hence developers' problem.

If I made a game where you can host your own server, but in the game you could very easily cheat, would it be down to the admins/host of each server to make sure that the players playing on their servers aren't cheating? Or would it be on me, the developer to make sure that players can't just cheat their way through the game?

[Vargling]

Just now, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Because it saves a lot of effort, time, would not destroy friendships as much and instead of one person looking to make sure nobody does anything bad, it's the game that does this automatically pretty much. Plus, if someone griefs and harms others, cheating is essentially what people need to resort to, i.e. rollback or respawning things back in? Why should people be worried about problems that can be easily fixed over time with the game getting updated?

How is this in any way good game design?

Rollback isn't cheating. Stop branding things as cheating because the devs won't waste their time on useless garbage like preventing griefing. It's good game design to not waste your bloody time because somebody cries about their base being griefed when they played on an unmanaged server.

What's bad game design is to ruin every character, ruin ghosts and so much more all because of some griefers.

Nobody cares about your friendships and if they get ruined.

Admins are there to administrate, deal with it.

Griefing should not be fixed, in a post-apocalyptic world is everyone still going to have morals and sing campfire songs? No, they're not. So don't call it bad game design not to fix it, when it ruins the entire game to fix it.

/rant

[SrJardel]

I agree that something could be done about grieffing, but at the same time I don't feel it like being priority.

And I totally agree with the server admin stuff. Imho, if you want to avoid grieffing, then it is better to manage you own server, or at least join one managed by someone you know will do it.

On my server I had stuff like 'Drop all on Exit', 'Ownership/Modify Ownership' and so on.

Sure I've seen complains about it, or even spoted some rants on chat log while I was not playing, but my overall experience playing in my own server was pretty good. I met new people who enjoyed teamwork, some were more hardcore style, some where loners who don't like to carry or be carried by others, like me and my wife, and etc.

But I can't remember a single rollback, and the grieffing mostly didn't worked, save some guy who decided to complain about the welcome message. He tried so hard that I had to kick him... Easy as that.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

31 minutes ago, Vargling said:

1) Rollback isn't cheating. Stop branding things as cheating because the devs won't waste their time on useless garbage like preventing griefing. It's good game design to not waste your bloody time because somebody cries about their base being griefed when they played on an unmanaged server.

2) What's bad game design is to ruin every character, ruin ghosts and so much more all because of some griefers.

3) Nobody cares about your friendships and if they get ruined.

4) Admins are there to administrate, deal with it.

5) Griefing should not be fixed, in a post-apocalyptic world is everyone still going to have morals and sing campfire songs? No, they're not. So don't call it bad game design not to fix it, when it ruins the entire game to fix it.

/rant

1) Why are you calling it useless garbage? How is it useless garbage when so many players keep getting their gaming experience given a "**** you" because it's very easy to destroy hours of work in seconds? It's not "good game design", it's good "not wasting your time on improving the gaming experience of your fan base", which is the exact opposite of good game design. And yes, it is cheating, because rollback has been used and it is being used in order to not just deal with griefing, but go back and try again if you've lost the game or a huge battle. None really accepts defeat that much in the game anymore, which is bad in relation to game design.

2) No, everything existent within the game is or has game design. It's the way something in the game is put in. Tools given which are meant to deal with griefing are done poorly as it doesn't deal well with griefing, hence why it's bad game design.

3) Nobody cares about your griefing enabling and if it gets ruined. Two can play that game

4) Game itself is meant to administrate, deal with it. If you keep going without any reasoning backing you up, I'll just ignore you.

5) How is this any argument? Post-apocaliptic? Do you even know the game lore? Do you have any clue on what the intention of the way the game is generally supposed to be played is? It is bad game design and as to why, I pointed out in part 2.

 

I honestly don't know why you would WANT to have people manually deal with griefing all the time, when game mechanics can do it for you? What, you want players to be able to burn down the base accidentally? You're going to rollback anyway though, aren't you and you're not going to like it either, will you? Umm, the sheer uncompromising adventure of being able to destroy everything for no reason at all, when that's not what the game is about, agh, the sensation!1!!1 The ability to do so, uff, if it was removed, even though no well-intended player would do so purposefully, that would really ruin the game *sob*

[Vargling]

8 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

1) Why are you calling it useless garbage? How is it useless garbage when so many players keep getting their gaming experience given a "**** you" because it's very easy to destroy hours of work in seconds? It's not "good game design", it's good "not wasting your time on improving the gaming experience of your fan base", which is the exact opposite of good game design. And yes, it is cheating, because rollback has been used and it is being used in order to not just deal with griefing, but go back and try again if you've lost the game or a huge battle. None really accepts defeat that much in the game anymore, which is bad in relation to game design.

2) No, everything existent within the game is or has game design. It's the way something in the game is put in. Tools given which are meant to deal with griefing are done poorly as it doesn't deal well with griefing, hence why it's bad game design.

3) Nobody cares about your griefing enabling and if it gets ruined. Two can play that game

4) Game itself is meant to administrate, deal with it. If you keep going without any reasoning backing you up, I'll just ignore you.

5) How is this any argument? Post-apocaliptic? Do you even know the game lore? Do you have any clue on what the intention of the way the game is generally supposed to be played is? It is bad game design and as to why, I pointed out in part 2.

 

I honestly don't know why you would WANT to have people manually deal with griefing all the time, when game mechanics can do it for you? What, you want players to be able to burn down the base accidentally? You're going to rollback anyway though, aren't you and you're not going to like it either, will you? Umm, the sheer uncompromising adventure of being able to destroy everything for no reason at all, when that's not what the game is about, agh, the sensation!1!!1 The ability to do so, uff, if it was removed, even though no well-intended player would do so purposefully, that would really ruin the game *sob*

Are you genuinely a troll?
 

The useless piece of crap that is Willow = Good game design?
The useless piece of crap that is Woodie = Good game design?
The useless piece of crap that are Ghosts = Good game design?

Why did all that happen? To prevent griefing.

What did it do? Ruined major parts of the game.

Griefing is part of the game at best, and if you don't like it, run your own server or go on one with admins! Quit crying on the forums like a spoilt little brat and ruining it for everyone who actually plays the game.

[An Artifact]

4 minutes ago, Vargling said:

Are you genuinely a troll?

Having a different opinion to yours =/= Troll.

[Vargling]

7 minutes ago, MeingroessterFan said:

Having a different opinion to yours =/= Troll.

Saying the game should admin itself, and calling it bad game design to preserve what hasn't been ruined == Troll, buddy.

[An Artifact]

Just now, Vargling said:

Saying the game should admin itself, and calling it bad game design to preserve what hasn't been ruined == Troll, buddy.

If you are going to dismiss people's opinions in such a condescending way, you are not my buddy, sorry.

[Vargling]

1 minute ago, MeingroessterFan said:

If you are going to dismiss people's opinions in such a condescending way, you are not my buddy, sorry.

And I'd rather not be with a troll. Just as bad as the griefers you whine about, if not worse.

Why this community is so entitled, I'll never know.

[An Artifact]

1 minute ago, Vargling said:

And I'd rather not be with a troll. Just as bad as the griefers you whine about, if not worse.

Why this community is so entitled, I'll never know.

I don't complain about griefers, I enjoy griefing. I do not enjoy this toxic attitude that always arises in these threads though. Politeness is a virtue often underestimated.

[Vargling]

4 minutes ago, MeingroessterFan said:

I don't complain about griefers, I enjoy griefing. I do not enjoy this toxic attitude that always arises in these threads though. Politeness is a virtue often underestimated.

Maybe if people didn't act so entitled like the devs should bow to them and kiss their feet, other people wouldn't lose their temper. Don't call mine the toxic attitude for not being that way.