Insulated Pack: Who is really using it? Is it worth it? A Suggestion

[NotStarvnMarvn]

Making it carry more things would be OP.

I think it's fine the way it is, even if I only use it in caves,

[JimmyJam]

2 hours ago, Dylan738 said:

Making it carry more things would be OP.

I think it's fine the way it is, even if I only use it in caves,

How would giving it 2 extra slot make it OP?

[Faintly Macabre]

3 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I explained the reasons here

I don't really understand what you're trying to tell me by quoting that.

Either way, what you guys are suggesting would completely invalidate yet another season's challenges -- challenges which are already handled easily with existing tools. And this suggestion has been made a million times before. They want the item to have limitations, and I sincerely doubt they're going to change their mind about that.

[NotStarvnMarvn]

2 hours ago, JimmyJam said:

How would giving it 2 extra slot make it OP?

Every other backpack (maybe not karampus' sack) would be obsolete compared to the portable 8-slot icebox.

[Auth]

Personally I'd love for a buff for the insulated pack, and also a skin for it that makes it look like an icebox. Then I could finally be Wigfridge!

[SuperPsiPower]

Was the insulated pack ALWAYS flammable? Or am I losing my mind..

[JimmyJam]

31 minutes ago, Dylan738 said:

Every other backpack (maybe not karampus' sack) would be obsolete compared to the portable 8-slot icebox.

But you wouldn't get the bag until like day 70+ and that's only if he spawns. I never use the bag i think ice chester is way better!

[FloomRide]

I believe a reasonable buff would be +2 slots (for 8 total) and stops ice/ice cubes from melting completely. You can only store food in it too, of course. It would be a bit overpowered if you could freeze thermal stones in it, since that would allow for infinite cold temperature in summer (although the thermal stone is already considerably OP in DST).

The recipe shouldn't be changed, since gears are a very rare resource and more electric doodads wouldn't push anybody away from making it.

[AlternateMew]

4 hours ago, Dylan738 said:

Every other backpack (maybe not karampus' sack) would be obsolete compared to the portable 8-slot icebox.

I would like to argue that it should be OP, at least to the extent of being a normal backpack that slows spoilage and keeps ice from melting.

It's costly to make and has too little use. Voila, your reward for killing/farming a giant! Snow Chester, but with less space. That prevents you from wearing armor on your torso.

Krampus sack makes the standard backpack and the Piggyback obsolete. And it would still be a tough competitor against a buffed insulated pack: Space vs. Spoilage. We would have two lesser backpacks with two stronger backpacks. Tier I and Tier II backpacks. Would you ever need to make a Thatch Pack in SW once you had a real backpack? Not likely.

[AnonymousKoala]

10 hours ago, Dylan738 said:

Making it carry more things would be OP.

I think it's fine the way it is, even if I only use it in caves,

Like warly was op.

Enlighten me, please, on how having an icebox on the move with 8 slots is op, when you can have 14/12 slots with no drawbacks(since piggyback  and riding a beef is one of the only things i do like about domesticated beefs, because no speed penalty), and food is hardly an issue, especially with its spoilage not exactly happening too soon(Unless you live off of Juicy Berries).

[Pyr0mrcow]

Exactly. It's a convenience; it's not doing anything that you can't already do by running back and forth, it's just extending possible trip time a bit.
If the trade-off is that you have less storage space and have to run back to drop stuff off early anyway, you might as well keep the regular backpack and use the gears for extra fridges at outposts. Can't say that I've ever had a reason to make a pack over fridges. Even for ruin raiding, once you reach the point of even being able to make that pack, you'll probably have plenty of Jerky dried and Dragon Fruit growing, so...an insulated pack doesn't provide a whole lot.

It could have occasional use with just the 2-slot upgrade, to make it equal to a backpack. At the very least, it'd be nice to have...and I feel like for what it's made from, it should feel like an upgraded backpack that makes the previous item obsolete, at least for the players who get it.
Right now it feels more like 1 step forward and 2 slots steps back.

[FreyaMaluk]

18 hours ago, Dylan738 said:

Making it carry more things would be OP.

I think it's fine the way it is, even if I only use it in caves,

 

14 hours ago, Dylan738 said:

Every other backpack (maybe not karampus' sack) would be obsolete compared to the portable 8-slot icebox.

You need triple the Gears and Doodads for an Ice Box and also a Boos Drop... Of course, it is suppose to be OP

The Krampus Sack is also an OP item and noone is crying over a normal Backpack or a Piggy Backpack when they become obsolete.... It is the nature of the game, some items are much better than others and completely replace them, like an Eyebrella replaces a normal Umbrella.... It's not a new concept in DST

The idea is having different BackPack Tiers as mentioned by @AlternateMew 

9 hours ago, AlternateMew said:

We would have two lesser backpacks with two stronger backpacks. Tier I and Tier II backpacks. Would you ever need to make a Thatch Pack in SW once you had a real backpack? Not likely.

Also, I do consider this shouldn't be a flammable item

14 hours ago, SuperPsiPower said:

Was the insulated pack ALWAYS flammable? Or am I losing my mind..

The point here is looking for balance and suggestions, I do care about the game and some things are changing in DST right now.... And need to change still, so can we just find the right balance for an item that many ignore for the high cost vs the benefit?

[FreyaMaluk]

10 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I don't really understand what you're trying to tell me by quoting that.

Either way, what you guys are suggesting would completely invalidate yet another season's challenges -- challenges which are already handled easily with existing tools. And this suggestion has been made a million times before. They want the item to have limitations, and I sincerely doubt they're going to change their mind about that.

They changed their mind about Icons for Moon and Gold Rocks and Tree stumps Icons, Sharing Maps and making the Compass useful and many other things in the game.... Why this has to be different?

I mean it's not like the necessary items for an Insulated Pack are not high... It needs triple the Gears and Doodads an Ice Box requires... 3 times...  and a Boss Item.... and only preserves food -2 slots. It doesn't feel like an upgrade for a normal Backpack or a Piggy Backpack, doesn't?

The idea is to really balance an item that requires so much, but gives so little... That's all

Like @Pyr0mrcow said

52 minutes ago, Pyr0mrcow said:

It's a convenience; it's not doing anything that you can't already do by running back and forth, it's just extending possible trip time a bit

.....

Right now it feels more like 1 step forward and 2 slots steps back.

 

[FreyaMaluk]

 

4 hours ago, FloomRide said:

It would be a bit overpowered if you could freeze thermal stones in it, since that would allow for infinite cold temperature in summer (although the thermal stone is already considerably OP in DST).

I think this could be fair if the recipe was reduced to Gears x 1 and Doodads x 1, but right now the materials required are highly costly just to even consider it a possibility between a Piggy Backpack/Krampus Sack and an Insulated Pack. I prefer to have a normal Backpack for the +2 slots alone.... and I know many also do

The idea is to really make it balanced and a real choice.... Right now it is not... as  @Pyr0mrcow said

Quote

Right now it feels more like 1 step forward and 2 slots steps back.

 

[NotStarvnMarvn]

7 hours ago, FloomRide said:

I believe a reasonable buff would be +2 slots (for 8 total) and stops ice/ice cubes from melting completely. You can only store food in it too, of course. It would be a bit overpowered if you could freeze thermal stones in it, since that would allow for infinite cold temperature in summer (although the thermal stone is already considerably OP in DST).

The recipe shouldn't be changed, since gears are a very rare resource and more electric doodads wouldn't push anybody away from making it.

If you can only store food in it, that would be fantastic. 

+1

[Faintly Macabre]

4 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

They changed their mind about Icons for Moon and Gold Rocks and Tree stumps Icons, Sharing Maps and making the Compass useful and many other things in the game.... Why this has to be different?

Because none of those things were balancing issues and this is?

5 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I mean it's not like the necessary items for an Insulated Pack are not high... It needs triple the Gears and Doodads an Ice Box requires... 3 times...  and a Boss Item.... and only preserves food -2 slots. It doesn't feel like an upgrade for a normal Backpack or a Piggy Backpack, doesn't?

It's not supposed to feel like an upgrade to any other backpack. It serves a different purpose. Triple the doodads is a non-issue by the time you can get a bearger kill under your belt, but if you want it to cost less gears, I could get behind that. But allowing it to preserve ice and cool thermal stones would completely break it.

[AnonymousKoala]

6 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

 

You need triple the Gears and Doodads for an Ice Box and also a Boos Drop... Of course, it is suppose to be OP

The Krampus Sack is also an OP item and noone is crying over a normal Backpack or a Piggy Backpack when they become obsolete.... It is the nature of the game, some items are much better than others and completely replace them, like an Eyebrella replaces a normal Umbrella.... It's not a new concept in DST

The idea is having different BackPack Tiers as mentioned by @AlternateMew 

Also, I do consider this shouldn't be a flammable item

The point here is looking for balance and suggestions, I do care about the game and some things are changing in DST right now.... And need to change still, so can we just find the right balance for an item that many ignored for the high cost vs the benefit?

Krampus Sack is not op because of it's rarity. Nerfing a 1% drop chance item makes it something no one would try to get. Buffing a 1% drop chance item would just make it even more desired, and those who get it even happier. 

And its the nature of every game, to have different tiers. Insulated Pack right now is great at tier 1(pre-backpack) , but it belongs in tier 2, just doesn't function like its worthy of that.

[AlternateMew]

2 hours ago, Dylan738 said:

If you can only store food in it, that would be fantastic. 

+1

That would make it even less desirable.

Unless you're Warly. And then you already start with a backpack that's cheaper to make, costs far less than the insulated pack (and it's SW counterpart), and, what do you know, has 2 extra slots in comparison. So still no reason to use it, even from the one character who could possibly benefit from a backpack that stores only food. And even that is being generous enough to assume that SW characters would ever be officially ported to DST.

[AnonymousKoala]

40 minutes ago, AlternateMew said:

That would make it even less desirable.

Unless you're Warly. And then you already start with a backpack that's cheaper to make, costs far less than the insulated pack (and it's SW counterpart), and, what do you know, has 2 extra slots in comparison. So still no reason to use it, even from the one character who could possibly benefit from a backpack that stores only food. And even that is being generous enough to assume that SW characters would ever be officially ported to DST.

Yeah, Warly sucks, but his backpack is the only good version of the Insulated Pack/Sea Sack, because its around the cost of a backpack, and is a straight upgrade, as well as not having to fulfill the standard of being a Giant Drop.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, AnonymousKoala said:

Krampus Sack is not op because of it's rarity. Nerfing a 1% drop chance item makes it something no one would try to get. Buffing a 1% drop chance item would just make it even more desired, and those who get it even happier. 

I wasn't talking about nerfing anything about the Krampus Sack.... It is ok as it is... I was using this in a different context...  just to point out that many things in the game are suppose to replace others Eyebrella vs Umbrella, Krampus Sack vs Piggy Backpack, etc. 

1 hour ago, AnonymousKoala said:

And its the nature of every game, to have different tiers. Insulated Pack right now is great at tier 1(pre-backpack) , but it belongs in tier 2, just doesn't function like its worthy of that.

Precisely, we are talking about tiers here, but an item that cost triple the materials for an Ice Box  and a Boss drop that is no ice box and has -2 slots doesn't sound like a Tier 2 Backpack, does it?

[AnonymousKoala]

10 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

I wasn't talking about nerfing anything about the Krampus Sack.... It is ok as it is... I was using this in a different context...  just to point out that many things in the game are suppose to replace others Eyebrella vs Umbrella, Krampus Sack vs Piggy Backpack, etc. 

Precisely, we are talking about tiers here, but an item that cost triple the materials for an Ice Box  and a Boss drop that is no ice box and has -2 slots doesn't sound like a Tier 2 Backpack, does it?

Sorry, when I hear OP I always assume it's "too strong, needs nerf", rather than how many people use it.

I think the suggestion that was already done is really all that it takes to make the Insulated Pack viable. Make it a full icebox rather than a discount one, and give it at least 8 slots.

[FreyaMaluk]

2 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Because none of those things were balancing issues and this is?

They change Toadstool's health and brain.... They changed Eruptions' frequency, range and DMG for SW.... those were mayor balancing issues... weren't they?

Barriers for what can be changed in the game are only in your mind.... 

Besides, most people here agree that this Backpack as it is is not worth it... cuz Snow Chester or just building little mini kitchens around the world to compensate for the gears... 

Remember that the title of the thread is 

 

Insulated Pack: Who is really using it? Is it worth it?

The idea is finding a good balance between materials and benefit... That's all

[FreyaMaluk]

 

19 minutes ago, AnonymousKoala said:

Sorry, when I hear OP I always assume it's "too strong, needs nerf", rather than how many people use it.

 

That's fine... It happens

19 minutes ago, AnonymousKoala said:

I think the suggestion that was already done is really all that it takes to make the Insulated Pack viable. Make it a full icebox rather than a discount one, and give it at least 8 slots.

Yeap... pretty much.... I started with the 8 slots, but your point of view was reasonable and logical... that's why I changed the OP and gave you credit for the contribution 

Thanks!

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

They change Toadstool's health and brain.... They changed Eruptions' frequency, range and DMG for SW.... those were mayor balancing issues... weren't they?

Toadstool is a thing that is actually still in development (don't forget all this ANR stuff is still in beta), and Shipwrecked was a thing they weren't originally responsible for balancing. The insulated pack was designed years and years ago, and the limitation they placed on it was clearly considered and deliberate.

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Besides, most people here agree that this Backpack as it is is not worth it... cuz Snow Chester or just building little mini kitchens around the world to compensate for the gears... 

Chester is a mob that can be killed, and he doesn't keep ice from melting anyway. You also can't take him into the caves. Whatever you mean by mini kitchens, you either have to carry the materials around or have built them in advance, neither of which is necessary if you use the pack.

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

Insulated Pack: Who is really using it? Is it worth it?

I'm telling you that I use it, and I think it's worth it. If you didn't actually mean to include the opinions of those that do, then the topic was misleading.

If you guys really do think it's not worth it, then you're entitled to your opinion as much as I am mine. But I can promise you that if you want them to change it, you'll have to come up with a solution besides letting it keep ice and freeze thermal stones, a thing they clearly don't want it to do. They won't do it. I'd bet big, big bucks on it. Find something else. Overheating protection, maybe. Give it 120 overheating protection, and now you have a backpack that helps keep you cool while also keeping your food fresh, at the cost of a couple of storage slots. That seems like a balanced way to improve it, to me.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

If you guys really do think it's not worth it, then you're entitled to your opinion as much as I am mine. But I can promise you that if you want them to change it, you'll have to come up with a solution besides letting it keep ice and freeze thermal stones, a thing they clearly don't want it to do. They won't do it. I'd bet big, big bucks on it. Find something else. Overheating protection, maybe. Give it 120 overheating protection, and now you have a backpack that helps keep you cool while also keeping your food fresh, at the cost of a couple of storage slots. That seems like a balanced way to improve it, to me.

You think this is balanced?? 

240 heat prot Eyebrella + 120 Insulated Pack you won't need a thermal stone in summer, never again....

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Toadstool is a thing that is actually still in development (don't forget all this ANR stuff is still in beta), and Shipwrecked was a thing they weren't originally responsible for balancing. The insulated pack was designed years and years ago, and the limitation they placed on it was clearly considered and deliberate.

I'm not saying there didn't deliberate on the topic... That's something I never said... 

The point with Toadstool and Eruptions is just to illustrate that things can change.... and they are changing... Doesn't matter if they are things from a long time ago.... Like giving a real use for the Compass, something that was in the community forever ago....

Klei listens to the community and if there is a large section who really wants something, then this is the time to say something about it..

I never said it's not cool to have your food last longer in the pack.... I only say that the requirements are too high for what you get, since there are other options available right now that are better... That's why most of the players don't use it... 

Personally, the bigger change for me would be the fact of making it bigger, cuz I would never change it for a Krampus Sack or a Piggy Back

If you compare for instance in SW the crafting materials for the Sea Sack are way more balanced:   ×5  ×2  ×1. Seaweed is everywhere at sea, Vines are pretty easy to farm with a Machete, and then just one Shark Gill which is actually pretty easy to get. This Pack is balanced. I cannot say the same about its homonym in DST/RoG.

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Chester is a mob that can be killed, and he doesn't keep ice from melting anyway. You also can't take him into the caves. Whatever you mean by mini kitchens, you either have to carry the materials around or have built them in advance, neither of which is necessary if you use the pack.

With "minikitchens" I mean a fridge on the road... and carrying the materials for the initial crafting is not a problem... you could do it every time you go back and forth and just precraft the fridge and place it, since precrafted recipes have 0 height... Not a big problem actually... 

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

I'm telling you that I use it, and I think it's worth it. If you didn't actually mean to include the opinions of those that do, then the topic was misleading.

I never said I'm not including your opinion on the matter, but most people think that the recipe is not worth it... That's the problem.... The main problem is, I think, that it gives the illusion that it can work as a fridge, but it is not...

If Klei wants to keep it the same way, then I really want them to change the recipe accordingly... 3 gears and 3 doodads vs 5 seaweeds and 2 vines are not the same in terms of renewability and cost...

But if Klei wants to keep the recipe as it is, I really, and many with me, want to make it better, at least +2 slots and cooling.

After all, the doodads are used for machines in the game... so let it work as a machine