Woodie's nerf seems harsh, should we help him?

[Axelocke]

I'm a huge fan of Woodie, there is no other character I'd rather play (except maybe the occasional Wickerbottom.) 

But the more I play as Woodie, the more weak he appears to be, and by weak please don't think I mean Wes levels of weak, because we all know Wes is the overlord in disguise, but in all seriousness, he needs to be fixed. Or so I think, Werebeaver's nerf just encourages players to either drop a 20 stack of wood and gnaw away the full moon, or to just leave and wait it out.

Should we fix Woodie, or leave him as is?

[GuyNamedChris]

 

[Asparagus]

13 minutes ago, Maknov said:

I'm a huge fan of Woodie, there is no other character I'd rather play (except maybe the occasional Wickerbottom.) 

But the more I play as Woodie, the more weak he appears to be, and by weak please don't think I mean Wes levels of weak, because we all know Wes is the overlord in disguise, but in all seriousness, he needs to be fixed. Or so I think, Werebeaver's nerf just encourages players to either drop a 20 stack of wood and gnaw away the full moon, or to just leave and wait it out.

Should we fix Woodie, or leave him as is?

Nice Werebeaver art btw

As Chris pointed out, there is already an on-going thread about this which he linked. You may join the discussion there

[Mario384]

It's not ongoing, it's died.

Honestly, Klei hasn't done anything to fix him, which makes me doubt they will.

It upsets me greatly.

[t0panka]

8 hours ago, Gyths said:

*starts a day 1 server and a Woodie joins*

*seconds in, he turns into Werebeaver*

What a noob, I initially thought...

*3 days later, still werebeaver, he returns to the surface*

Day 4, he had a magil, 2 sets of crowns, a suit, and a bat-bat. He rushed ruins asap.

Ahh what a gimmick, he utilized nightvision/speed for his advantage.

*~6 days later...*

He has scalemail and a lavae. He killed dragonfly. Theory was he kited Dragon for the first few rounds then reverted back to his old self to panflute.

10/10 wood lumber as Woodie for acorny pun and jedi powers.

may the forest be with you

[Gyths]

Legend says he's still a Werebeaver to this day...

[rezecib]

This is what I'd like to see, and what I currently have in my in-progress rebalance mod:

Woodie:
	No sanity loss as werebeaver, but transform back with low stats (like single-player)
	Damage taken as the werebeaver is removed from the log meter before health, with 60% reduction
	Werebeaver insulation doubled and water resistance increased to 90%
	Werebeaver deals 51 base damage again (still has bonus wood damage)
	Werebeaver deals axe damage in PvP
	Removed pinecone sanity gain

 

[Arlesienne]

I have some of the best experiences on other people's servers as Woodie in the current - nerfed - form, but I would love to have the werebeaver look exactly like the artwork the OP attached.

...Off-topic? What off-topic? It brings Woodie to greatness!

[GuyNamedChris]

5 hours ago, rezecib said:

This is what I'd like to see, and what I currently have in my in-progress rebalance mod:

Woodie:
	No sanity loss as werebeaver, but transform back with low stats (like single-player)
	Damage taken as the werebeaver is removed from the log meter before health, with 60% reduction
	Werebeaver insulation doubled and water resistance increased to 90%
	Werebeaver deals 51 base damage again (still has bonus wood damage)
	Werebeaver deals axe damage in PvP
	Removed pinecone sanity gain

 

Ehhh, I agree with everything but the last one. What if someone insists on going werebeaver on day 3 and suddenly turns back to Woodie with 50 in all stats? I think that the pinecones should still give sanity, even if it's lowered to like 2-3 per pinecone.

[Maslak]

11 hours ago, Maknov said:

http://soundboard.panictank.net/2SAD4ME.mp3

Rip Woodie's woody dreams full o' wood.
Dang, I love the art, too.

[Haroldman]

2 hours ago, Chris1488 said:

Ehhh, I agree with everything but the last one. What if someone insists on going werebeaver on day 3 and suddenly turns back to Woodie with 50 in all stats? I think that the pinecones should still give sanity, even if it's lowered to like 2-3 per pinecone.

Simple, don't turn into werebeaver on day 3... i believed the idea with werebeaver was you needed to plan for it?

[Axelocke]

Oh! I hadn't realized that you folks were also aware of Woodie's nerf! I guess I didn't poke around enough, hadn't realized that there was already multiple posts on this topic. Have another Werebeaver as my way of saying thanks!

 

[Arlesienne]

More art please :)!

[minespatch]

I'd like more character development or Lucy and the ax's motive.

[narkoface]

Alright so my favourite character was also Woodie back in singleplayer and I played him in dst with a mod before he was officially released. Then I looked at the "balance" changes and I was like... rip Woodie good ol' friend.

Mostly the characters that appear stronger than the others have some disadvantages too. That's the meaning of balance right? On top of that if you can play around their weaknesses and also enjoy their special powers then you will have fun with the given character. For example I really love playing as WX-78 because he is well balanced. A very simple thing like rain and wetness is deadly to him but with gears slowly he will have more stat than almost anyone in the game. Also he ignores spoilage and becomes boosted by lightning which are not meant to influance your gameplay greatly rather they are there for the theme of being a robot.

Now what about Woodie in DST?

As a human his advantages are:

Lucy - infinite durability and faster chopping for the price of dealing less damage -> balanced
Beard - gives 45 insulation and cannot be shaved meaning that it helps on winter but not so good on summer ->balanced (also it's there for the theme)
Followers -  he recruits pigmen, bunnymen and rocklobster for a longer time -> doesn't really have a real impact on the game (Im not sure why he is celebrating Thanksgiving early)
Sanity - planting a tree gives him 5 sanity - can be useful if you just destroyed half of a forrest but I feel like it's there for the theme like the spoilage ingorance for WX-78 as it won't provide you any major advantage over the other characters who can still achieve the same by picking up flowers

So far he seems like a decent character, like a simple woodsman sort of.

As a human his real disadvantage is:

Beaverness meter - he has to consume wood and not using Lucy in order to stay human -> this is just wrong on so many levels

The game literally punishes you for using your anyway balanced special item and forces you to consume half of the gathered wood after, making it the same as if you were using a regular axe. And why does he have to eat wood exactly? I'm not that familier with werewolves but as far as i know they don't eat row meat to prevent their transformation. Maybe the werebeaver form does not want you to feel like a werewolf? It's okay, then why do you change at full moon?

Talking about the werebeaver...

He deals 25 damage to mobs - weaker than using a spear
He can't use armor - obviously weaker than using a log or even a grass suit
He can't interact with objects or use the map
He can mine or cut trees indefinitely - you can do the same in human form with an axe and a pickaxe without the other disadvantages above
He has nightvision - which is obligatory as he can't set up fire or use a torch and otherwise it would render him useless at night (never seen a werewolf at daylight either)
He has increased insulation - which again is just there because you can't use your clothes
He loses 90 sanity per minute - almost the equivalent of standing near a treeguard
He has no Hunger bar - yeah like you would live long enough to starve to death in this form ( under 3 minutes your sanity bar will be depleted completely compared to your hunger bar which would go down by 28 by this time)

And on top of all these at full moon he is forced to stay in one place and constantly consuming wood otherwise he would die. Oh and didn't you hear? if you die in beaver form you die as a human too and you can't even use your map to navigate yourself back to the portal.

Yeah so this is the balance of the werebeaver. Everything he can do, others can do better. You are punished if you use your axe, you are punished if you turn into the werebeaver, hell, you are even punished if you spend the full moon night on the server. Playing with him isn't rewarding at all.

Please Klei, give him real strenghts. At this point I feel like he was left for dead. His transformation should be something you would like to do in certain scenarios. Decision making. Stay human or transform. Now I would rather avoid it at anygiven time.

[CaptainFun]

On 6/13/2016 at 10:18 PM, Mario384 said:

It's not ongoing, it's died.

Honestly, Klei hasn't done anything to fix him, which makes me doubt they will.

It upsets me greatly.

It's kind of disappointing yeah. Klei has been great about feedback regarding bug fixes and whatnot but when it comes to characters like Woodie and Willow, they've been mostly silent. I know they're working on new stuff now, but there is still some existing content that should have seen some adjustments

I realize that they're not obligated to, but I really like it when the devs come to the forums and explain why they made something the way they did. It's always an interesting read and I appreciate the transparency. 

[Mario384]

1 hour ago, CaptainFun said:

It's kind of disappointing yeah. Klei has been great about feedback regarding bug fixes and whatnot but when it comes to characters like Woodie and Willow, they've been mostly silent. I know they're working on new stuff now, but there is still some existing content that should have seen some adjustments

I realize that they're not obligated to, but I really like it when the devs come to the forums and explain why they made something the way they did. It's always an interesting read and I appreciate the transparency. 

Thing is, they said they would use that fourm post "for a balance discussion".  Honestly, I understand the devs are working on new content and all, but they've already fixed things about Maxwell, why not Willow or Werebeaver?  I mean, Klei did give both of them a little extra something, whether it be a bear that nobody uses or waterproofing and armor, they cared about balancing them, they just didn't do enough of it.

[Tumalu]

5 hours ago, narkoface said:

Sanity - planting a tree gives him 5 sanity - can be useful if you just destroyed half of a forrest but I feel like it's there for the theme like the spoilage ingorance for WX-78 as it won't provide you any major advantage over the other characters who can still achieve the same by picking up flowers

 

The game literally punishes you for using your anyway balanced special item and forces you to consume half of the gathered wood after, making it the same as if you were using a regular axe. And why does he have to eat wood exactly? I'm not that familier with werewolves but as far as i know they don't eat row meat to prevent their transformation. Maybe the werebeaver form does not want you to feel like a werewolf? It's okay, then why do you change at full moon?

The sanity isn't a major advantage because sanity isn't really a big problem in general (you can get back huge amounts from sleeping and food isn't usually a big issue) but it IS easier than just flowers; there's only so many flowers around, and since Woodie is a fast logger, pinecones into sanity basically means there's no reason you can't be at effectively full sanity forever, even right after getting back from werebeaver or coming back from ruins with little to no sanity- for that matter, even in caves you shouldn't have sanity worries as you can bring pinecones with you.

When it comes to Lucy, you're looking at it wrong. If you're chopping trees, you WANT to transform. Chop until you transform (don't eat logs whilst chopping, that's a waste!) and then keep chopping until you turn back, as it doesn't take that many trees to do so. As long as you've got enough trees around (Which should not be a problem) you won't have taken nearly enough sanity loss for nightmares to appear and then you just pinecone it back up. Werebeaver harvests trees even faster than lucy, so it's win/win.

That being said, Werebeaver's only other use is it you want to drop to no sanity on -purpose- to then transform back and fight nightmares, or luring them for other team members. Woodie is pretty much just... free sanity and lots of wood, which admittedly is somewhat underwhelming, but a team of players goes through a lot of logsuits, so it's not so bad? If you plan for it you can use full moon as mass logging nights since you can stay werebeaver so long during it.

I'd agree with Woodie getting somewhat of a buff.

 

[PurpleHatEvolution]

#MAKEWOODIEGREATAGAIN