Problem with burning books

[Jolly66_]

The new update rolled by and we were all happy. Maxwell got that "buff" he needed to clam down that insanity tension, new things were added and tweaked, trading cards were added aswell. But the one thing that i noticed and tested, was burnable books. Now where im going with this is, if your playing as Wickerbottom its no big deal to burn a few of your books (considering you have a surplus of the needed supplies, exlcuding papyrus if it wasnt all burned up already).

So whats my problem?

The Codex Umbra is burnable as well

Whats the problem you may ask/see? Since Maxwell has to drop his book to craft his shadow workers, some newbie or troll may come along and snatch the book, and possible burn it. Now, looking at the crafting recipe and it costs 50 of Maxwells health. We know thats ALOT of little ol' Maxwell over here. It isnt the Nightmare fuel or even papyrus thats the issue, its the health cost. So what am i saying? Im simply saying to either of the following;

A) Make Maxwells book recipe cost less health
B) Make the Codex Umbra work like Lucy (So only that Maxwell can pick it up, but any other ones can use it)
C) Or make it not burnable (Which is less likely since it IS a book)
D) Make whatever last shadow Maxwell made available (So if it is destroyed, Maxwell still has one of his 4 shadows)

So, now i ask you everyone. What do you think?

Should the Codex Umbra cost less health, or be altered in a way so an accident like this doesn't arise? 

[Mday]

Health is not a issue. Health recovery is as easy as 3 blue caps/ 1 fishstick and etc. However its a great annoyance to have the book burnt for no reason at all.

Just give us the old codex umbra.

[Jolly66_]

7 minutes ago, Mday said:

Health is not a issue. Health recovery is as easy as 3 blue caps/ 1 fishstick and etc. However its a great annoyance to have the book burnt for no reason at all.

Just give us the old codex umbra.

Early game. Never forget early game.

Someone could just waltz along as Maxwells making his shadows and.. yoink! Where's the codex?!

[Tumalu]

The problem isn't the recipe. It's just others snatching the book.

They could steal the book BEFORE anyway, though, so I think the problem hasn't changed much. They've got just something that makes the idea slightly more appealing and you can't murder them to get it back? IMO if you're really that worried about it just don't drop the book next to people who are suspicious. I really don't see this being a big issue.

[thesamon]

I'd like the book to work like Lucy to be honest. Like Maxwell still have control over the shadows in/around the book where others cannot, which makes him able to hold it

[AnonymousKoala]

3 minutes ago, thesamon said:

I'd like the book to work like Lucy to be honest. Like Maxwell still have control over the shadows in/around the book where others cannot, which makes him able to hold it

I mean its not like the rest can do anything with the codex really, so...

[or1239]

On 5/3/2016 at 10:27 AM, or1239 said:

If we are already on topic of his book. Why does maxwell's book need to be like that? why having to put down the book to do it each time? Why can't the crafting be available whenever the book is in your inventory.

i'll just leave this here.

[Mday]

1 hour ago, Tumalu said:

The problem isn't the recipe. It's just others snatching the book.

They could steal the book BEFORE anyway, though, so I think the problem hasn't changed much. They've got just something that makes the idea slightly more appealing and you can't murder them to get it back? IMO if you're really that worried about it just don't drop the book next to people who are suspicious. I really don't see this being a big issue.

I have yet have any problem with poeple stealing my book. However now that burning is an option I an sure someone is gona do it.

[V2C]

Hey guys, I just wanted to point out that books have always been burnable by Torches, and it's totally up to you whether to leave books lying around or not, depending on who you're playing with.

[thesamon]

2 hours ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, I just wanted to point out that books have always been burnable by Torches, and it's totally up to you whether to leave books lying around or not, depending on who you're playing with.

I'm sorry, I don't want to be THAT guy, but the same could be said about buildings really.

(YouknowwhatImean)

[spiderdian]

Today I made a lamp so I could use the alchemy engine, then some jerk came, picked the lamp and ran away with it, not counting the problem I passed getting it(Searching sinkholes, fighting an army of spiders in the sinkhole, going down....).

What does this have to do? you may ask

Well, as anyone can pick anything from anywhere, the trolling possibilities with this change is unlimited.

Since you can't prevent people from picking stuff, the best thing to do is remove the burnable component from the books

[oCrapaCreeper]

I feel like a shadow hand should pop out of the Codex and comically slap you in the face if you try to pick it up and it's not yours. Should do the same thing if you try to directly ignite it. 

If you ask me, the fact you need to drop it on the ground as an item to craft the shadow puppets is just setting everything up for someone to troll.

[CaptainChaotica]

This is the _Codex Umbra_, for pete's sake--the book that sucked Maxwell and Charlie into the Don't Starve world and STARTED all of this mess!  It should totally have some magical way of defending itself.

--If you try to pick it up, it should slip out of your hands ala Lucy and then, like CrapaCreeper said, slap you across the face with a shadow hand.  With a cartoony sound effect. : P

--If you try to _burn_ it, you CAN...but it should release a whole cohort of shadow creatures that will seriously mess you up if you don't dodge really fast/wear armour/have high HP.  Like it's got its own built-in death curse.  It would only make sense, lore-wise.  This isn't just some "random" magic book.  This is THE magic book of Don't Starve.  You might be _able_ to destroy it...but it should make you REGRET it.

...Notorious

[Jolly66_]

34 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

--If you try to _burn_ it, you CAN...but it should release a whole cohort of shadow creatures that will seriously mess you up if you don't dodge really fast/wear armour/have high HP.  Like it's got its own built-in death curse.  It would only make sense, lore-wise.  This isn't just some "random" magic book.  This is THE magic book of Don't Starve.  You might be _able_ to destroy it...but it should make you REGRET it.

I was thinking of something along these lines, so if anyone were to burn the book, they'll get a face full of revenge.
More or less, return to sender to whom thought it was funny to waste frail ol' Maxwells health

1 hour ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

I feel like a shadow hand should pop out of the Codex and comically slap you in the face if you try to pick it up and it's not yours. Should do the same thing if you try to directly ignite it. 

If you ask me, the fact you need to drop it on the ground as an item to craft the shadow puppets is just setting everything up for someone to troll.

I like your too, its comedic, and teaches those. But never the less, others will argue "Just dont drop it near people" or "Make them before hand". People forget early game, Maxwell will be dropping his book and will be making shadow minions. I know alot of people will say there isnt much of a problem, which i understand, if your playing later in the game. Its early game thats a minor to major factor. Forget wickers books for a second, Maxwells Codex should punish those who wish to touch it/burn it/do anything with it.

Although its all thought, people will just grow smart of the book burning ceremonies sooner or later..

[CaptainChaotica]

Wickerbottom's books should do something too; after all, she IS kind of a witch.  Maybe something like the way magic books/other witchy stuff works in the Sims?  In Sims 2, for example, somebody other than the witch/warlock whom a spellbook belongs to tries to sneak up and read it, the book will kind of "bite" them!  They'll leap back, freaked out and shaking their hand as if it was just burned or something. 

In Don't Starve, this could be like the same "Ouch!" chord & animation as when you pick a cactus, with similar amount of HP loss, when you try to pick up a spellbook (and are not another Wickerbottom).   And when you DO burn the book, something bad related to whatever spell it is could happen.  Like, if you burn "On Horticulture", all crops/saplings/grass tufts/berry bushes on the current screen wither.  Or if it's "Birds of the World", a MASSIVE flock of crows lands around you all at once.  This doesn't actually harm you, but _does_ get across that You're Messing With Something You SHOULDN'T...!  "On Tentacles" gets you attacked by a tentacle, etc.

If it's "The End is Nigh"...sudden meteor shower?  FIREY DEATH FROM THE HEAVENS!  Yeah, that sounds about right.

...I dunno, maybe I read too much fantasy, but I very like the idea of spellbooks being able to fight back in some way. 

...Notorious

[GiddyGuy]

30 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Wickerbottom's books should do something too; after all, she IS kind of a witch.  Maybe something like the way magic books/other witchy stuff works in the Sims?  In Sims 2, for example, somebody other than the witch/warlock whom a spellbook belongs to tries to sneak up and read it, the book will kind of "bite" them!  They'll leap back, freaked out and shaking their hand as if it was just burned or something. 

In Don't Starve, this could be like the same "Ouch!" chord & animation as when you pick a cactus, with similar amount of HP loss, when you try to pick up a spellbook (and are not another Wickerbottom).   And when you DO burn the book, something bad related to whatever spell it is could happen.  Like, if you burn "On Horticulture", all crops/saplings/grass tufts/berry bushes on the current screen wither.  Or if it's "Birds of the World", a MASSIVE flock of crows lands around you all at once.  This doesn't actually harm you, but _does_ get across that You're Messing With Something You SHOULDN'T...!  "On Tentacles" gets you attacked by a tentacle, etc.

If it's "The End is Nigh"...sudden meteor shower?  FIREY DEATH FROM THE HEAVENS!  Yeah, that sounds about right.

...I dunno, maybe I read too much fantasy, but I very like the idea of spellbooks being able to fight back in some way. 

...Notorious

I see you forgot about STS maybe it could work like a mandrake if you burn it.

Hey! Then I'll get to the yawn animation more that would be pretty fun.  

[CaptainChaotica]

...actually I don't really have Wickerbottom's books memorized; I haven't played as her much yet.  : P But you get the idea.  And yeah, Sleepytime Stories...that should totally knock out the perpetrator.  _No matter what is happening_. Oh, are the hounds coming?  I'm SO sorry, griefer brat!  Not.

And the yawn animation is FREAKING ADORABLE omg. 

...Notorious

 

 

[AnonymousKoala]

2 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Wickerbottom's books should do something too; after all, she IS kind of a witch.  Maybe something like the way magic books/other witchy stuff works in the Sims?  In Sims 2, for example, somebody other than the witch/warlock whom a spellbook belongs to tries to sneak up and read it, the book will kind of "bite" them!  They'll leap back, freaked out and shaking their hand as if it was just burned or something. 

In Don't Starve, this could be like the same "Ouch!" chord & animation as when you pick a cactus, with similar amount of HP loss, when you try to pick up a spellbook (and are not another Wickerbottom).   And when you DO burn the book, something bad related to whatever spell it is could happen.  Like, if you burn "On Horticulture", all crops/saplings/grass tufts/berry bushes on the current screen wither.  Or if it's "Birds of the World", a MASSIVE flock of crows lands around you all at once.  This doesn't actually harm you, but _does_ get across that You're Messing With Something You SHOULDN'T...!  "On Tentacles" gets you attacked by a tentacle, etc.

If it's "The End is Nigh"...sudden meteor shower?  FIREY DEATH FROM THE HEAVENS!  Yeah, that sounds about right.

...I dunno, maybe I read too much fantasy, but I very like the idea of spellbooks being able to fight back in some way. 

...Notorious

I suggested just this with the whole final effect for the books upon being burnt, that does something different.

I want to mod this now. Burning the Codex unleashes a bunch of nightmare creatures to try and kill you(By a bunch I mean nightmare cycle levels maybe), Applied Horticulture should be a mass withering book, On Tentacles creating tentacles around them as they burn, STS putting even the player to sleep/waking everything up(Which would also give it a beneficial effect in a way), End is Nigh sending all of its lightnings to attack the user(End is Nigh summons lightning btw), etc.

[Mday]

14 hours ago, V2C said:

Hey guys, I just wanted to point out that books have always been burnable by Torches, and it's totally up to you whether to leave books lying around or not, depending on who you're playing with.

This is different.

On a server, if someone come along and torch my book, I can tell right away he is trolling/griefing and I can report him to admin or ban him myself.

If I got someone come in and throw my books at the fire pit, there is no way I can proof that he is trolling as he could have 1000 excuses to play dumb and get away with it.

Also wana point out that in DS, books cannot be use as fuel. So while its true that books have always been burnable by torches, it is only since DST that bookas can be used as fuel.

[Tumalu]

I don't really think burning books can be excused as newbie actions, since it should be preeeeetty obvious they're special items (they have durability and such, at the least). Not to mention if we're talking about the Codex Umbra here, they're pretty much going to have to snatch it from you very deliberately whilst you're trying to use it, with it floating in the air and playing special animations.

No one's going to believe that's a silly newbie not knowing what they're doing unless they're entirely "silly" themselves, which would be a different problem in of itself. It's like seeing the necronomicon emitting curses and going "oh, the fire's getting low, this has paper in it right?" whilst a necromancer is busy reading it.

Again, if you really don't trust the people around you, go a screen away before summoning minions. The problem isn't any worse than it was before they could be fire fuel, and I'd actually rather NOT have an unnecessary "only maxwell can take it" nerf so that if I die (liable, it is -maxwell-) none of my teammates can help recover it.

[Mday]

33 minutes ago, Tumalu said:

I don't really think burning books can be excused as newbie actions, since it should be preeeeetty obvious they're special items (they have durability and such, at the least). Not to mention if we're talking about the Codex Umbra here, they're pretty much going to have to snatch it from you very deliberately whilst you're trying to use it, with it floating in the air and playing special animations.

No one's going to believe that's a silly newbie not knowing what they're doing unless they're entirely "silly" themselves, which would be a different problem in of itself. It's like seeing the necronomicon emitting curses and going "oh, the fire's getting low, this has paper in it right?" whilst a necromancer is busy reading it.

Again, if you really don't trust the people around you, go a screen away before summoning minions. The problem isn't any worse than it was before they could be fire fuel, and I'd actually rather NOT have an unnecessary "only maxwell can take it" nerf so that if I die (liable, it is -maxwell-) none of my teammates can help recover it.

So in your point of view, player should be able to use the book as fuel? Further more if anyone actually use the book to fuel a fire pit than that person is for sure trolling?

This kind of approach isn't gona help in creating a newbie friendly environment. It will be like keeping the old willow design and then say:

"it's totally up to you whether to weather pain all Willow or not, depending on who you're playing with."

I have a feeling that they have make the changes so that world is not littered with Papyrus and Nightmare Fuel.

[Jolly66_]

1 hour ago, Tumalu said:

and I'd actually rather NOT have an unnecessary "only maxwell can take it" nerf so that if I die (liable, it is -maxwell-) none of my teammates can help recover it.

As a Woodie main, do you think I enjoy having to go fetch Lucy half way across the map (theoretically speaking) if i die? Even if shes right next to the base and we got meat effigies inside, it is a pain in my butt to go get her, but i dont whine about it. Sure i may die again getting her (if shes across the map, theoretically speaking) but its that part of DST which is "I died, oh well but at least i can explore abit while i go. And no, i wouldnt waste materials on a new Lucy. Im better off retreiving her before she despawns. Plus, as another state of mind, only the Woodie who spawned with that Lucy can only pick her up. So i guess we can be lieant if he does get a character lock nerf/buff (so other Waxwells can nab it). It makes more sense on Woodie, but in all respects, make the book locked to Maxwell only, but it can still be burned by torch light (Dont even think about it Willow..)

[Aquaterion]

22 minutes ago, MedicOrNot said:

As a Woodie main, do you think I enjoy having to go fetch Lucy half way across the map (theoretically speaking) if i die? Even if shes right next to the base and we got meat effigies inside, it is a pain in my butt to go get her, but i dont whine about it. Sure i may die again getting her (if shes across the map, theoretically speaking) but its that part of DST which is "I died, oh well but at least i can explore abit while i go. And no, i wouldnt waste materials on a new Lucy. Im better off retreiving her before she despawns. Plus, as another state of mind, only the Woodie who spawned with that Lucy can only pick her up. So i guess we can be lieant if he does get a character lock nerf/buff (so other Waxwells can nab it). It makes more sense on Woodie, but in all respects, make the book locked to Maxwell only, but it can still be burned by torch light (Dont even think about it Willow..)

cant you just make another axe and it will turn into lucy?

[Jolly66_]

1 hour ago, Aquaterion said:

cant you just make another axe and it will turn into lucy?

I'm pretty sure it's only if she despawned; I've never had this happen since I've always retrieved Lucy

[Arlesienne]

I have seen Woodie making a normal axe with Lucy lying in the close vicinity of some big monster, hitting a tree once, and said normal axe magically turning into Lucy again (on Klei servers though).

14 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

This is the _Codex Umbra_, for pete's sake--the book that sucked Maxwell and Charlie into the Don't Starve world and STARTED all of this mess!  It should totally have some magical way of defending itself.

Maybe teleporting you into another dimension of THEIRS (*cough* AKA despawn with all stuff dropping *cough*)?

Alright, a slightly different approach: does NOBODY feel something is inherently wrong with burning books? It's not about griefing through burning books, say, the Codex Umbra, but burning books in general.