Does Wes make sense in DST?

[Arlesienne]

Still here? Crivens.

The most sensible thing for those who find Wes "not right" (however you understand right) should either mod him to have new perks or change his stats, damage output, speed, hunger loss and so on directly through the files. Editing the relevant lua is highly intuitive. If I can pull this off, everyone can. And I am not being humble. Hey, vehement Wes opponents can even disable him outright. Star or any sufficiently IT-savvy player can show you how.

One thing I know: the argument you have here is spinning out of control. And is NOT going to solve anything.

13 hours ago, T4T3RGR3NAD3R said:

I read this as autism

Huh? I won't take the "offensive content" route, buuut... It does sound worrisome in any case. I am only saying all Wes experiences I have ever had were overwhelmingly positive and no disadvantage of the character was felt.

[GiddyGuy]

6 hours ago, or1239 said:

but at this rate this thread is just going to get locked.

At this rate it'd be a blessing, but I remember a Klei dev saying they would never change/make Wes easier in DST, but I guess the OP was not around when they talked about that.

1 hour ago, t0panka said:

and yet noone mentions how Willow is even worse.

OOO GURL DON'T MAKE ME GET HER IN THIS THREAD, I SWEAR ON ME MUM!

[Asparagus]

1 hour ago, t0panka said:

Everyone crazy about Wes being bad or not usefull and yet noone mentions how Willow is even worse.

On 5/9/2016 at 0:37 PM, Asparagus said:

Now in terms of "balancing" in DST as we look at Willow, it was because of the outcry by the community that they had to change her up a bit because of people who abuse her abilities to grief (but come on, anyone can make a torch and do the same)... but for all intents and purposes, she was supposed to still be the Fire Starter with her ability to conjure flames from nothing and with that, be immune to it... this was supposed to be where she shines...

O__O

 

[Mikeadatrix]

6 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

At this rate it'd be a blessing, but I remember a Klei dev saying they would never change/make Wes easier in DST, but I guess the OP was not around when they talked about that.

OOO GURL DON'T MAKE ME GET HER GET IN THIS THREAD, I SWEAR ON ME MUM!

you go gurl

[Axehilt]

13 hours ago, Bebbit said:

Helping less isn't hurting your team, and who's to say you are helping less by playing Wes? Of course, Wilson is objectively better than him (statistically), but when there are more than enough resources to sustain either one of them, what difference does it make?

A semi-independent Wes can still survive, can still do damage, and can still feed himself and the team just as well as anyone else can when resource management and kiting strategies are employed. You're using more resources, sure, but there are still many more for everyone else because of how large DST's default world is.

A good Wes prioritizes his team and is willing to stay in adversity for the greater good of the group. That applies to all characters, but especially Wes because adversity is so much easier to come by. A good Wes may focus on contributing renewable resources to plant near the base and should be willing to journey far to fetch what the world has to offer, again more than others.

 

In conclusion, it's hard to help your team as Wes just like it's hard to survive as Wes, but in both situations it is completely possible to overcome your difficulties and persevere just like everyone else.

Sure we can say "deliberately contributing less" if that technicality helps you feel better.  And surely you can understand how deliberately contributing less could easily be construed as hurting the team in a cooperative game.

What does it matter? Because games exist in reality.  Here in reality, perfect play doesn't happen (in a game of any reasonable depth.) Specifically in DST: most servers out there are 8/8 on day 20, and 3/8 on day 24.  Even though there are technically enough resources to survive, the reality is players aren't surviving. Games need to be designed around that reality.

Game balance isn't about whether something is theoretically sufficient.  It's about two main factors: (a) whether it's theoretically balanced, and (b) whether it's actually (in practice) balanced.

So when a MMORPG class only deals 70% as much DPS as the best class, it just doesn't matter if that's theoretically sufficient to beat all the raid bosses.  It doesn't matter because players aren't playing perfectly, and won't usually achieve that 70% DPS.  Instead they'll achieve lower DPS, and fail far more than players of the 100% class (who also aren't playing perfectly, but since their class isn't underpowered the resulting reality is they do enough DPS to succeed.)

[Nickolas2600]

Here is the solution everyone. One that will stop all the arguing. If you dont like Wes dont play him. If you play public and someone chooses wes than ether ignore them, or help them. It shouldn't matter if he or she plays wes. That person can do as they please and arguing over it fixes nothing. We all have to face the fact that are mime friend is here to stay as is. Personally wes is fine (though I think his ballons should make a minor sanity aura for everyone thats not him). Even that is just a minor change that generally would really affect peoples decision to play him. So for those defending Wes thats great but play nice. For those criticizing Wes how about trying to give ideas on how to change him but keep him what we love a character made for a challenge.

[DarkXero]

6 hours ago, or1239 said:

Why is Wes an exception to this idea?

  My problem with him is that it seems like he can't do anything past the basics to support other players, which everyone can already do, so i get that not having a power is basically his thing, he doesn't follow the rules he has nothing and that's his thing.

but i still don't understand why he can't have anything for other players,  why is having Wes support his team with something special sacrilege against his identity? is it because he get to be  useful in a unique way? but he can already do such a thing thanks to his balloons, getting nightmare fuel easily and distract enemies with balloons, doesn't this mean his identity is already broken?

i ain't saying balance him, just saying give him something unique that is beyond the basic materials to help players.

that's why when someone picks wes i don't like it, i know that if that player picked anyone else he could have helped me in some unique way, but with Wes that player is having his own challenge seemingly entirely out of my world, he can be the best player in the world and help me go through hundred of days easily  with no problems, but past food/resources and hitting enemies with me he doesn't have a combo with my character he doesn't bring an interesting dynamic to me , hes just a normal guy with a handicap, and its perfectly fine for him and if people don't like Wes they shouldn't pick him but would it really break his entire identity if lets say his balloon raised my sanity?

if someone picks Wes its out of my control,so making every character at least bland in well while keeping their original identity could  make everyone happy...right?

Wes is the exception because he's intended to be underpowered. If he remained with those stats, but boosted the sanity of other people, then he wouldn't be underpowered. There would be a trade off.

Getting nightmare fuel easily and distracting enemies with balloons aren't abilities given on purpose, they are just consequences of destroying his own sanity, and hounds being stupid. Besides, only good players can make use of low sanity, and the distraction isn't going to help you much, hounds will retarget you quickly. Basically, the abilities are "useful" because the players exploit them, mechanics wise. Which is what Wes is all about, showing skill and knowledge of the game.

If his balloons raised your sanity, how much sanity would you say? Glommer-like sanity? And if they did though, would it really be enough for you? Sanity isn't really a problem for advanced players. So once you reach that expertise point, should be Wes given something else because he turns again into a normal guy with a handicap for you?

Again, when I see a second Wickerbottom, I don't feel bad for the missed potential. When I see a Webber, I don't feel bad to have a guy with weak sanity, which also all my followers hate. When I see a Wendy, I don't think "great, he could have picked Wolfgang and we could have killed Deerclops/Bearger/Dragonfly faster". I just play the game and survive, doing the best I can with the hand I'm given.

This "making every character at least bland in will while keeping their original identity could make everyone happy" is absurd. It happened to Willow, and it happened to Woodie, for balance's sake. Now Willow is a pyromaniac that can get hurt by fire, and the Werebeaver is weaker than his human counterpart.

What I can tell you for sure, is that if Wes is buffed in any way, I'm never picking him again. And he would probably still be underpowered, because I doubt his balloons would be buffed to act like gunpowder.

You can also download a mod like http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=522365312 to get rid of Wes in your servers.

[Axehilt]

13 hours ago, DarkXero said:

Everybody is underpowered relative to Wolfgang.

People still play those characters.

Balance is important, which is why Klei takes community feedback for the game.

We enjoy balanced content too!

However, we can also enjoy overcoming a challenge when the odds are stacked against us.

For another example of this, I can point to Dark Souls and the Soul Level 1 runs.

You don't have to do it, and you are gimped for summons and invasions, but you do it anyways, to show skill.

Of course, it's not for everyone.

Again, it's unclear why you assume the only way to overcome a challenge is for that challenge to come from the character selection. Want a challenge? Join/host a challenging server.

Meanwhile, better character balance would improve the game.  Is Wolfgang actually superior for the average player?  Well then he should be balanced too.  Balance is about creating a more interesting set of decisions for players, to avoid shallow gameplay where only a few (or one) option(s) exist.

[BlindGunner]

5 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

Again, it's unclear why you assume the only way to overcome a challenge is for that challenge to come from the character selection. Want a challenge? Join/host a challenging server.

Meanwhile, better character balance would improve the game.  Is Wolfgang actually superior for the average player?  Well then he should be balanced too.  Balance is about creating a more interesting set of decisions for players, to avoid shallow gameplay where only a few (or one) option(s) exist.

You will not touch my Wolfgang. Also, the devs said they don't want to balance the characters. They were made without too much balance in mind. And it's not easy to find a challenging server, so I might bring the challenge with me by picking Wes.

[Nickolas2600]

2 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

 Balance is about creating a more interesting set of decisions for players

If thats true why do you want every character made equally? Its not more interesting if Wilson is Just Wolfgang but with a beard. Wes is character that shows characters can interesting and unique.

[BlindGunner]

On February 18, 2016 at 1:02 PM, JoeW said:

So I don't have a direct answer to this, but I think something is important to notice. I am speaking personally here as I don't know where we all stand in terms of balance right now. 

DS characters were never intended to be balanced as equals. Wes was fully intended to be kind of a hard mode character. He is at a disadvantage and that's pretty much all there is to it. 

I know, for a fact that if we were to "balance" Wes in a way that made him "equal" to everybody else; a lot of people would be upset by such a change. Any changes to balance up to this point have been to adjust a perceived problem. In general in terms of balance, characters were made for an interesting experience, not so much to be equal.

As somebody who has worked in MMOs almost exclusively before coming to Klei, I really think this is something interesting that I would like to explore more as we grow DST in the future. I don't know how I feel about making everybody balanced to be equal; I don't know that that's really in the spirit of the game. So, then how do we "balance" in interesting ways?

Obviously this is weird in an online game, right? I mean, up till now as players we have always thought of balance as meaning equal, where that is not the case in Don't Starve. But does it have to be equal? Can we help players choose know that they should pick Wes for the challenge? Is it something we need to change, or is it something we need to encourage?

 

[DarkXero]

1 minute ago, Axehilt said:

Again, it's unclear why you assume the only way to overcome a challenge is for that challenge to come from the character selection. Want a challenge? Join/host a challenging server.

It's unclear why are you so absolutely no-fun-allowed.

Want it easier with Wes? Join/host a server with all food resources amped to "lots".

Even better, mod the game. Go to Wes' prefab lua file and copy paste Wilson's values on it. Beard included.

2 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

Meanwhile, better character balance would improve the game.  Is Wolfgang actually superior for the average player?  Well then he should be balanced too.  Balance is about creating a more interesting set of decisions for players, to avoid shallow gameplay where only a few (or one) option(s) exist.

Perhaps you should stop spouting "balance this, balance that" and using general terminology, and take a closer look into the design of both DS and DST, considering that both DS and DST are neither a MMORPG or a strategy game like Civilization V (which I also enjoy).

You were quoted JoeW at the start of the thread, quoted him again now, and now I'm even providing the link.

Turning all characters into Wilson would be the perfect character balance.

But if you did it, we would all get the pitchforks and point them at you.

[or1239]

42 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

Wes is the exception because he's intended to be underpowered. If he remained with those stats, but boosted the sanity of other people, then he wouldn't be underpowered. There would be a trade off.

Getting nightmare fuel easily and distracting enemies with balloons aren't abilities given on purpose, they are just consequences of destroying his own sanity, and hounds being stupid. Besides, only good players can make use of low sanity, and the distraction isn't going to help you much, hounds will retarget you quickly. Basically, the abilities are "useful" because the players exploit them, mechanics wise. Which is what Wes is all about, showing skill and knowledge of the game.

If his balloons raised your sanity, how much sanity would you say? Glommer-like sanity? And if they did though, would it really be enough for you? Sanity isn't really a problem for advanced players. So once you reach that expertise point, should be Wes given something else because he turns again into a normal guy with a handicap for you?

Again, when I see a second Wickerbottom, I don't feel bad for the missed potential. When I see a Webber, I don't feel bad to have a guy with weak sanity, which also all my followers hate. When I see a Wendy, I don't think "great, he could have picked Wolfgang and we could have killed Deerclops/Bearger/Dragonfly faster". I just play the game and survive, doing the best I can with the hand I'm given.

This "making every character at least bland in will while keeping their original identity could make everyone happy" is absurd. It happened to Willow, and it happened to Woodie, for balance's sake. Now Willow is a pyromaniac that can get hurt by fire, and the Werebeaver is weaker than his human counterpart.

What I can tell you for sure, is that if Wes is buffed in any way, I'm never picking him again. And he would probably still be underpowered, because I doubt his balloons would be buffed to act like gunpowder.

First of all i don't want to get rid of Wes in my servers, i  LOVE Wes and understand some people want  their challenge.

And nightmare fuel and balloon targeting are still unique benefit, skillful players or not.

if balloons raised other's sanity i would be more then pleased, since it already threw something into the mix that wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for Wes playing with me , i don't care if sanity won't be a problem in the future but it still changed the playthrough, it still helped beyond the basic materials, and brought something.

The way i like to play the game is try making an interesting experience with the hand i am given, i see a Wendy and think "okay now we can make a nice combo with my spider egg nest  and her sister, "  and build a cool base with that in mind i see a Woodie joins so i build the base with trees  specifically around the nests  so he can gnaw them while fighting those same spiders" when Wes joins and i see nothing, nothing interesting he can help us but interesting ways we can help him,   i can still give him battle helm and a lighter he can cook with on the go, i can accompany him with Abigail and help him in combat etc.

And i thought willow and Woodie were changed because of griefing reasons, or that werebeaver was too good, i don't like  those changes and i am not trying to make every character balanced, balanced isn't the way to go in this game, every character just needs to be different and have different playstyles while not being too overpowered. i  just wish them all to bring something that is unique to everyone while keeping them true to their original identity and still have them  be a stand alone character.

 

[Axehilt]

1 hour ago, Nickolas2600 said:

If thats true why do you want every character made equally? Its not more interesting if Wilson is Just Wolfgang but with a beard. Wes is character that shows characters can interesting and unique.

It's 2016, why do people still mistakenly believe that balance means all playstyles are exactly the same?

Starcraft has been out forever.  The Zerg use hordes of units, while the Protoss achieve the same goals with solitary powerhouses -- extremely different playstyles, but balanced such that there are players of either race found in the highest tournaments.

WOW has been out forever. Same deal.

Street Fighter has been out forever.  Same deal.

With so many games having shown asymmetric balance doesn't involve identical playstyles, it just doesn't make sense for people to continually perpetuate this strange and wrong opinion in 2016.

A balanced Wes will still have his own distinct playstyle.  He just won't be a net-negative to the group, relative to what you'd have contributed had you picked anyone else.

[Axehilt]

57 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

It's unclear why are you so absolutely no-fun-allowed.

Want it easier with Wes? Join/host a server with all food resources amped to "lots".

Even better, mod the game. Go to Wes' prefab lua file and copy paste Wilson's values on it. Beard included.

Perhaps you should stop spouting "balance this, balance that" and using general terminology, and take a closer look into the design of both DS and DST, considering that both DS and DST are neither a MMORPG or a strategy game like Civilization V (which I also enjoy).

You were quoted JoeW at the start of the thread, quoted him again now, and now I'm even providing the link.

Turning all characters into Wilson would be the perfect character balance.

But if you did it, we would all get the pitchforks and point them at you.

A balanced Wes isn't "no fun allowed".  It's unclear why you'd think that.  What I'm describing will increase the fun, because more characters will be viable, and more players will play this goofy character than currently do.

Suggesting that someone completely changes the server just to be able to play Wes (thereby making all other characters far too easy to enjoy) is obviously a much worse solution than simply balancing Wes (and now you can choose any character, and pick an easy/normal/hard server to choose your difficulty, and any character will work on any server.)

As I told the other poster, it's 2016 and no longer appropriate to confuse balance and asymmetry.  Balance does not mean every character plays the same.  Balance means every character adds up to a similar overall value.  Countless games from Starcraft to LoL have achieved this asymmetric balance where playstyles are balanced yet different.  So any concerns that Wes would play exactly like the other characters are wrong.

[DarkXero]

1 hour ago, or1239 said:

i  just wish them all to bring something that is unique to everyone while keeping them true to their original identity and still have them  be a stand alone character.

That's why Wes brings balloons, and doesn't talk. He isn't just a nerfed Wilson.

Again, some people like to decorate their base with balloons.

Wilson or Willow or Wendy don't make an interesting experience for me if I have them on my team.

I don't give a damn for beard hair, awful torches, and a paper ghost.

But I am fine with that. You don't need synergy between all members of the team.

Just like how I give Wendy a pass, you should try giving Wes a pass too.

[t0panka]

58 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

Starcraft has been out forever.  The Zerg use hordes of units, while the Protoss achieve the same goals with solitary powerhouses -- extremely different playstyles, but balanced such that there are players of either race found in the highest tournaments.

And yet if Starcraft had "Wes" which you can play as .... experienced player would rip you apart even if you played as Zerg or Protoss and THIS is fun and challenge and ... fun! .)

+ all games you wrote down are highly competitive games which needs proper balance otherwise they would die. DST is not game like this so please stop comparing DST to them

+ i don't know what happened last couple of years to balance but "2016" has nothing to do with this

[Axehilt]

21 minutes ago, t0panka said:

And yet if Starcraft had "Wes" which you can play as .... experienced player would rip you apart even if you played as Zerg or Protoss and THIS is fun and challenge and ... fun! .)

+ all games you wrote down are highly competitive games which needs proper balance otherwise they would die. DST is not game like this so please stop comparing DST to them

+ i don't know what happened last couple of years to balance but "2016" has nothing to do with this

But Blizzard wouldn't do that.  In Starcraft there are already difficulty controls (in PVP your ELO matches you against tougher opponents automatically, and in PVE you have a difficulty select) and so it would be a giant waste of dev resources to implement a fourth deliberately-underpowered faction.  Instead, if they implemented a fourth faction they'd balance it with the other three, and then you'd have the entire matrix of easy/normal/hard vs. zerg/protoss/terran/fourth.

Every game about challenging situations is competitive, whether it's PVP or PVE.  In WOW, class balance still matters purely for PVE reasons because you want to bring the player not the class.  They would never deliberately implement an underpowered class in WOW for the exact same reason as Starcraft: you already have the option of tackling easy vs. hard content, completely independent of class choice.

Starcraft 1 has been out since 1997 as an example of balanced asymmetric play.  Arguably Street Fighter and other games did it before then.  So here in 2016 it's ridiculous to have the wrong opinion that balanced playstyles are identical playstyles, because at this point everyone should've had the opportunity to play lots of games which are asymmetrically balanced.

1 hour ago, DarkXero said:

That's why Wes brings balloons, and doesn't talk. He isn't just a nerfed Wilson.

Again, some people like to decorate their base with balloons.

Wilson or Willow or Wendy don't make an interesting experience for me if I have them on my team.

I don't give a damn for beard hair, awful torches, and a paper ghost.

But I am fine with that. You don't need synergy between all members of the team.

Just like how I give Wendy a pass, you should try giving Wes a pass too.

Why do you think anyone wants to take Wes' balloons away?

Balance isn't about taking away characters' uniqueness.  It's about achieving balance alongside that uniqueness.

[or1239]

47 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

That's why Wes brings balloons, and doesn't talk. He isn't just a nerfed Wilson.

Again, some people like to decorate their base with balloons.

Wilson or Willow or Wendy don't make an interesting experience for me if I have them on my team.

I don't give a damn for beard hair, awful torches, and a paper ghost.

But I am fine with that. You don't need synergy between all members of the team.

Just like how I give Wendy a pass, you should try giving Wes a pass too.

yeah but Wes not being able to talk and  having balloon don't really effect other players in any way ( execpt the balloon targeting and nightmare fuel which i think is great ), from a different players perspective he might as well be a nerfed Wilson,

even if you don't like the other characters they still give/bring those  different dynamics into the game just like Wes does with his low hp/hunger rate.

but unlike Wes , what they bring is past stats and basic materials, and those beard hairs can build a meat effigy which can revive you and effects you directly, and those awful torches can cook that monster meat so you can survive eating it and help you go through that  harsh day, and that paper ghost can  bring in the extra damage you needed to kill that hound before it kills you.

Even if there  wasn't any synergy between them they still help you in one way or another beyond the default things, if it wasn't in direct combat or a certain resource or pretty much putting extra numbers on an enemy or even getting a few extra sanity points they still did something that was related to you that was unique. This is why i am perfectly fine with Wilson, he doesn't have anything but his beard but him having this easy access to beard hair means meat effigy or heck! even extra fuel fire means its something out of the equation that is beneficial to everyone .

[t0panka]

@Axehilt dude plz ... i told you "IF Starcraft had Wes player" scenario. Of course Blizzard wont do that because Starcraft is not casual fun game which DST is! STOP comparing multibillion companies with highly competitive games to casual DST which made ultra small (but more awesome) studio. This is ridiculous. DST is co-op game that doesnt need to balance Wes at all. Only competitive part is PVP where i can tell you pick any character and most of people here that are Wes players will rip you apart no matter who you play. And that is fun! Me playing as Wes killing you full Wolfgang. There are no strats, no bonuses, no extra items that will help, nothing just pure hard work and that Wolfgang player knows that. Whatever would Klei add to Wes it would create some crazy strats that would give advantage compared to other characters. Wes is Bes because he doesn't have any and will never have!

[DarkXero]

13 minutes ago, or1239 said:

but unlike Wes , what they bring is past stats and basic materials, and those beard hairs can build a meat effigy which can revive you and effects you directly, and those awful torches can cook that monster meat so you can survive eating it and help you go through that  harsh day, and that paper ghost can  bring in the extra damage you needed to kill that hound before it kills you.

I don't need meat effigies, because I can just use hearts or amulets, worst case scenario. I rarely die.

I don't need those awful torches, because I can just drop a campfire and cook or just eat the food raw.

I don't need that paper ghost, because if I can't deal with hounds myself then with other characters I'm toast. I can't rely on Abigail.

To me, those things the characters bring, are nothing, worthless.

Just like how you see Wes.

However, I don't really care as long as other people have fun with their own character.

 

If you are content with those characters having those "great" abilities, why not be content with

17 minutes ago, or1239 said:

( execpt the balloon targeting and nightmare fuel which i think is great )

and accept Wes has a "great" trait like other characters?

You acknowledge Wes has something going for him. I acknowledge other characters have something going for them.

[or1239]

34 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

I don't need meat effigies

I don't need those awful torches,.

I don't need that paper ghost

To me, those things the characters bring, are nothing, worthless.

Just like how you see Wes.

Well even if you don't them its there :\

34 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

If you are content with those characters having those "great" abilities, why not be content with Wes

Its just that i want him to do a little more and maybe have something that was directly thought with other players in mind,  on my previous post i said Wes doesn't have to have "something for the team" but it should would be nice,

On 5/9/2016 at 4:07 PM, or1239 said:

"alright so, i would like to bring an alternative question if i may.

Should we give Wes more Tools to support other players ? (ONLY other players)

even Wes apparently can already bring his own things as mentioned here, balloons can potentially  distract enemies and help farm nightmares fuel, that's already something, so why not give him more things like that? 

something that will benefit other players only and won't change anything about Wes himself. that way he can contribute to and compliment other character and players in a way that no other character can and he would still stay the lovable hardcore character he is , and people will enjoy having him around more.

why not? ;-;"

i kinda tried directing this thread into  discussion this instead since clearly the main question was ether Answered/not getting anywhere and making a new thread to ask this seemed pretty unnecessary.

The things other character bring, even if weren't designed with multiplayer are ( i think) a lot better then what  Wes brings already, and its not a matter of balance between the characters , its a matter of  bringing something that is more or less the same value to what the others do/bring.

its a sort of a balance of its own regardless of the character themselves , Wilson getting beard hair- saving the trouble of others to go insane to get it , Wendy sending her sister to deal with that spider - no one has to risk getting hurt, a sort of "the things this character do that can make our life easier at this"

But i don't know anymore, if you don't see the same way then its okay and since no one else is willing to discuss this and people just want this thread to get buried i guess we can just wrap this one up , its pretty amazing how almost everyone here were so against changing or consider changing literally anything about Wes and even bringing him up created this rather long thread, people do understand that just because he is a challenge character that doesn't mean he is some sort of saint that should never be touched or changed ever right? how many people even considered this thread?        ah well ¯\_('-')_/¯ lets end it 

[WildWesternWilson]

Is this still going? 

[Pyr0mrcow]

So, summing it up.
Most Wes players like the difficulty that he brings.
At the same time, others want him to bring some team benefit.
Buffing him directly would ruin his concept, while leaving him as he is currently seems a bit counter-intuitive to the whole "Together" idea of DST.
That in mind, the solution is to keep his style and still make him useful to a team, right?

His theme is having trouble staying alive. With this being a multiplayer game, that could actually be accentuated further, while not really changing him from his single player version.
Make him a distraction. Create a threshold (before the de-aggro threshold) where, if violent mobs are chasing someone for too long, they'll attempt to re-target, first to nearby balloons, then to nearby Wes's, then to other players, and finally to the original target if none of the former apply.
It gives him team value, and gives slightly more use to the balloons, especially for team players. He keeps the difficulty, and any taken away by the balloons' new usefulness is added back by his new label as snack of choice.

 

Thoughts?

[AnonymousKoala]

27 minutes ago, Pyr0mrcow said:

So, summing it up.
Most Wes players like the difficulty that he brings.
At the same time, others want him to bring some team benefit.
Buffing him directly would ruin his concept, while leaving him as he is currently seems a bit counter-intuitive to the whole "Together" idea of DST.
That in mind, the solution is to keep his style and still make him useful to a team, right?

His theme is having trouble staying alive. With this being a multiplayer game, that could actually be accentuated further, while not really changing him from his single player version.
Make him a distraction. Create a threshold (before the de-aggro threshold) where, if violent mobs are chasing someone for too long, they'll attempt to re-target, first to nearby balloons, then to nearby Wes's, then to other players, and finally to the original target if none of the former apply.
It gives him team value, and gives slightly more use to the balloons, especially for team players. He keeps the difficulty, and any taken away by the balloons' new usefulness is added back by his new label as snack of choice.

 

Thoughts?

Ok this is actually kind of a cool idea. Keeps him a challange for the player who chooses him, but makes him a good resource for the rest.