Will Wes stay bad forever?

[Asparagus]

11 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

I would like to say that this seems stupid but I guess it wouldn't be too bad, because Wigfrid needs her starting items to get food quickly and without dying, Maxwell doesn't really need the shadow gear for anything other than killing things, but I guess they could give him nightmare fuel and living logs(since it takes a little bit of time to find some) for his dark sword and armor.

Well, he does have 75 health having the "Is Frail" perk so he kinda has to have an armor of some sort to start and as the lore says he kinda does have to have a Night Armor...

Or make the Dark Sword and Night Armor craftable from the start... although getting Papyrus would still require a science machine but hey, it's something~ *:ﾟ*｡⋆ฺ(*´◡`)

[Gingerbread]

I would definitely prefer a Wes with real game experience over a Wigfrid who tries to hunt rabbits with traps to survive or over a Wolfgang who struggles to keep himself even in normal form. Wes is a really weak character but that does not mean that someone playing as Wes cannot contribute to group better than a wickerbottom... It is all about how much experience you got.

I love Wes and his suckish stats. IMO, klei should introduce a new character even worse than Wes. Because if you ask me even Wes is OP for playing if you know what you are doin.

[LadyD]

I honestly thought Wes existed for amusement and fun. I don't take him as a serious 'playing' character. I play Wes when I want silence. I play Willow when I want to watch the world burn. Wicker when I want to rock some books. Each character has perks and flaws. Wes's perk is not having to listen to any annoying sounds because he doesnt talk at all. Not much of a perk but hey when you are sick of characters being too talkative... I dunno. From a PvP stand point being killed by Wes would certainly make you feel like you has just been taken out by a pro. Someone who took the weak character and rocked him. *shrug* I feel he has a place in the choices of characters and I like him the way he is. Silent, a bit weak and making balloon animals for no apparent reason. 

[GiddyGuy]

47 minutes ago, LadyD said:

and making balloon animals for no apparent reason. 

His other perk throwing the best parties!

[werlpolf]

16 hours ago, JoeW said:

So, then how do we "balance" in interesting ways?

When I look into different games even not MMORGs, but also from different genre, I see big differences of the character's or parties's features. They are really unequal and maybe even need a very different gameplay handling. Important is how the community and players are handling them - not that the characters are "perfectly" balanced. Is there one character, which wins most battles? Is this maybe just a specific spell or strategy / build order, why people are winning so 'easy' with that character or party? Means, Klei needs statistics of successful gameplay (who killed the most, who got killed most -> character) and / or the community's feedback. With that data the developers can try to change the 'imbalance' by not making them equal, but by making their success-rate equal. Even very little changes could change the balance ordinary. For example Wes runs with 1.15 speed by default. Or Wolfgang consumes 4 times faster food on his mighty form. Wigfrid can eat vegetables, but decreases alot of sanity and makes her move slower.

17 hours ago, JoeW said:

Can we help players choose know that they should pick Wes for the challenge? Is it something we need to change, or is it something we need to encourage?

Actually I see Wes as a handicap. It is very interesting to implement handicaps by new (and weaker) characters, sure. But handicaps can also be made with 50% less health and so on with all characters. Maybe there can be a benefit for handicaps like getting faster gifts/skins. Or on PvP, the whole environment reacts to you more friendly (meteors will not fall on you).

 

[BorhilIan]

On 2/20/2016 at 5:19 AM, werlpolf said:

Actually I see Wes as a handicap. It is very interesting to implement handicaps by new (and weaker) characters, sure. But handicaps can also be made with 50% less health and so on with all characters. Maybe there can be a benefit for handicaps like getting faster gifts/skins. Or on PvP, the whole environment reacts to you more friendly (meteors will not fall on you).

 

I would certainly prefer those as options. Though the more gifts based on a handicap setting would get abused. As it stands it seems you get gifts at random intervals rather than for any notable events. Which honestly I prefer since it's more a reward as you player the game more and more rather than trying to actively farm items. I wouldn't be surprised if they use some distribution system that divides a set number of items over all active players each day. It would certainly be one of the more fair systems.

As for Wes I'm not really a fan of the character. I've yet to play with someone who used him extensively though. Maybe I'll try a solo run as him to evaluate they way he actually plays.

[werlpolf]

3 hours ago, BorhilIan said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they use some distribution system that divides a set number of items over all active players each day. It would certainly be one of the more fair systems.

The distributing method does fit for limited (not anymore changeable amount of) resources to share them quite equally to too many consumers. Where do such situations exist? Software can be copied - including the skins XD. If some skins should be kept rare, then the drop-chance (%) can be reduced for each 'rare' skin. Therefore it is also unfair using this method, because you would just emulate, that skins are limited available, but thats not true. For Klei there are no additional costs for giving everyone all drops or to increase the drop-rate in genral. Drop-chance (for example how it is implemented of silk-drop-chance after killing spiders) is easier and everyone will get an equal chance of getting drops - doesn't matter how long everyone is playing.

In the distribution method the idlers would get most unique skins, since they get the most drops. When for example all valkyrie armors are dropped to the idlers, everybody else will ve no chance getting this skin anymore until Klei starts to drop another 'set of items' on the 'market'.

I am feeling there is a misunderstanding ...

4 hours ago, BorhilIan said:

rather than trying to actively farm items

idling

Don't get emotional and stay on topic please XD

[NoQuitting]

Here is just an idea. Keep Wes the same just buff the balloons.

-Balloons can be placed in your inventory but if you are hit by an enemy all the balloons explode causing whatever the damage would have been if they were on the ground. This allows you to produce a bunch of balloons carry them around (40 per stack) but to counteract this awesomeness one hit will cause them all to pop in your inventory.

-When Wes starts to go insane his balloon's will actually follow him around sort of like Willow's Bernie in DST.

I guess the first part could be added as a mod to the game the second part would be pretty cool to actually have some animal balloon animations and noises that they make, maybe circus music in the background when the balloons are nearby with low sanity.

[werlpolf]

- Wes could make waterballoons and throw them to hostile player to disable their fighting - so Wes can run away, because he is weak.

- Wes can do a pantomime trick to change himself as a random object, which fits to the current biome - also for the reason to avoid fights

[Mikeadatrix]

18 minutes ago, werlpolf said:

- Wes could make waterballoons and throw them to hostile player to disable their fighting - so Wes can run away, because he is weak.

- Wes can do a pantomime trick to change himself as a random object, which fits to the current biome - also for the reason to avoid fights

YES. THIS is GOOD>

[BeastNips]

Quote

Webber/Wendy- Indirecly nerfed by DST incapacity to order followers to attack. If this was to prevent Webber from starting spider wars then it failed, it's only slightly harder now. Wendy becomes riskier to use because you have to go there attack or else Abigail won't target anything.

I don't understand this change either. Sometimes you don't want to get into the fray, which is really the point of Webber. I actually stopped using Webber because of this; what's the point if you can't command your spider army to attack? (Ok, he has lots of advantages, but not being able to command your spiders is pretty annoying) 

I've never found it a problem with Wendy, however, other than possibly hunting Koals. Someone else mentioned that Wendy needs a power; I think she's probably fine the way she is, but Abigail possibly needs a little extra health in DST to compare with mobs having more health. Abigail's game is "AoE them down before I die" so if the mobs have more HP, surely she needs a little more too. 

[Asparagus]

7 minutes ago, BeastNips said:

I've never found it a problem with Wendy, however, other than possibly hunting Koals. Someone else mentioned that Wendy needs a power; I think she's probably fine the way she is, but Abigail possibly needs a little extra health in DST to compare with mobs having more health. Abigail's game is "AoE them down before I die" so if the mobs have more HP, surely she needs a little more too. 

I've had multiple times where as Wendy I was fighting Tree Guards and at some points in the battle, I make sure that I get the last hit in and the TG targets me which I promptly avoid and Abigail is left unharmed... but when I get luckier, Abigail actually moves away as I move and avoids damage as well...

Also, when with other people, they sometimes accidentally hit Abigail and she hits them back and they either run away or actually pick a fight with her... and don't get me started on tentacles...

So basically what I'm saying is... sure, her health may be an issue (never really checked if Abigail really has lower health compared relatively to mobs in consideration of Single Player vs DST) so shouldn't she get more... control?

[Muche]

49 minutes ago, werlpolf said:

- Wes can do a pantomime trick to change himself as a random object, which fits to the current biome - also for the reason to avoid fights

I assume this is meant for PvP, because hiding in a bushhat does this for PvE.

[DwerBomb]

To be honest if someone was making balloons for me I would feel really better, even if we're struggling at surviving in an island in the middle of nowhere (= when he makes a balloon near people they could get a tiny sanity buff)

[werlpolf]

2 hours ago, Muche said:

I assume this is meant for PvP, because hiding in a bushhat does this for PvE.

Yes, but aren't every character able to craft sleep darts and Wickerbottom has an additional sleep book? Or everyone can make torches, but Willow can craft lighters. Same for Armors and Wigfrid and so on. Pantomime for Wes can also be used for PvE - he just don't need a bushhat. Actually I think the bushhat needs to be changed in that way, that it is also usable against other players.

[werlpolf]

2 hours ago, Asparagus said:

So basically what I'm saying is... sure, her health may be an issue (never really checked if Abigail really has lower health compared relatively to mobs in consideration of Single Player vs DST) so shouldn't she get more... control?

Yes, maybe Abigail has multiple modes like 'tank', 'kite', 'mindcontrol'. The tank mode is the current one and the kite one just reflects Wendy's moves compared to the enemy. If Wendy moves away to dodge, Abigail will do the same on the right moment. 'mindcontrol' is to change the control to Abigail, while Wendy will follow Abigail or stay in one position. Different modes have different outlooks as like the ones from the tamed beefalos

[BeastNips]

3 hours ago, Asparagus said:

I've had multiple times where as Wendy I was fighting Tree Guards and at some points in the battle, I make sure that I get the last hit in and the TG targets me which I promptly avoid and Abigail is left unharmed... but when I get luckier, Abigail actually moves away as I move and avoids damage as well...

Also, when with other people, they sometimes accidentally hit Abigail and she hits them back and they either run away or actually pick a fight with her... and don't get me started on tentacles...

So basically what I'm saying is... sure, her health may be an issue (never really checked if Abigail really has lower health compared relatively to mobs in consideration of Single Player vs DST) so shouldn't she get more... control?

Yeah swamps and Beefalo herds in Spring are basically off limits for Abigail. It would be nice to get a re-call button or a 'passive' mode where she wouldn't attack anything. Both, probably. 

[Serph]

7 hours ago, BeastNips said:

I don't understand this change either. Sometimes you don't want to get into the fray, which is really the point of Webber. I actually stopped using Webber because of this; what's the point if you can't command your spider army to attack? (Ok, he has lots of advantages, but not being able to command your spiders is pretty annoying) 

I've never found it a problem with Wendy, however, other than possibly hunting Koals. Someone else mentioned that Wendy needs a power; I think she's probably fine the way she is, but Abigail possibly needs a little extra health in DST to compare with mobs having more health. Abigail's game is "AoE them down before I die" so if the mobs have more HP, surely she needs a little more too. 

Don't play much Webber but from the few times i did found him very underwhelming. Not being able to attack order the spiders makes them such pain to use in real combat.

DST Mobs have higher HP to encourage teamwork on fights. If you increase Abigail HP you make Wendy less dependent on friends which not only is unbalanced but unfair for the other characters.

7 hours ago, Asparagus said:

I've had multiple times where as Wendy I was fighting Tree Guards and at some points in the battle, I make sure that I get the last hit in and the TG targets me which I promptly avoid and Abigail is left unharmed... but when I get luckier, Abigail actually moves away as I move and avoids damage as well...

Also, when with other people, they sometimes accidentally hit Abigail and she hits them back and they either run away or actually pick a fight with her... and don't get me started on tentacles...

So basically what I'm saying is... sure, her health may be an issue (never really checked if Abigail really has lower health compared relatively to mobs in consideration of Single Player vs DST) so shouldn't she get more... control?

The biggest challenge of playing Wendy isn't using or summoning Abigail, it's not letting her stupid IA suicide rush into a giant / tentacle. Even if it's "unfair" that's why she is technically balanced. The ability to give attack orders tho is something that was already in singleplayer and deserves to be in DST, not just for her but for other characters with friendly pigs/bunnies.

[unitato]

I feel like willow is equally as hard in DST because of her nerfs and the amount of hate people give to you. I mean seriously, everytime something burns or is damaged the first person blamed is always willow. Its totally not the WX that hogged the rotten eggs, nitre and charcoal or the webber who spent his entire time gathering mats for his nests. Sure it could be willow 99% of the time, but thats still not 100 ._.

[Asparagus]

9 hours ago, Serph said:

The biggest challenge of playing Wendy isn't using or summoning Abigail, it's not letting her stupid IA suicide rush into a giant / tentacle. Even if it's "unfair" that's why she is technically balanced. The ability to give attack orders tho is something that was already in singleplayer and deserves to be in DST, not just for her but for other characters with friendly pigs/bunnies.

Well, I'm not really complaining... I actually like the fact that we can craft our dead sister's memento out of generic flowers and some nightmare fuel and store a bunch in a chest and when her ghost "dies", we can summon her immediately with backups... lol

But with Wes, yes, he is a hard-mode character... the upside is

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 2:10 PM, GiddyGuy said:

His other perk throwing the best parties!

And giving you a Sanity boost IRL with his actions and ability to summon and ride invisible bikes...

[Kuirem]

I think that before changing anything about Wes we should ask him what he thinks about it and wait for his answer....

[BeastNips]

Quote

Well, I'm not really complaining... I actually like the fact that we can craft our dead sister's memento out of generic flowers and some nightmare fuel and store a bunch in a chest and when her ghost "dies", we can summon her immediately with backups... lol

I honestly never considered that. As far as good ideas go, that's up there. 

[mabi]

An end game base lacks the FLAIR that colorful balloons provide, that's his perk. 

not to mention wendy can summon abigail by merely popping a balloon, which is hilarious.

[RalphKastro]

34 minutes ago, mabi said:

not to mention wendy can summon abigail by merely popping a balloon, which is hilarious.

that actually sounds like a bug. Or at least not intended. Or are balloons confirmed to have souls?

[ImDaMisterL]

On 25/02/2016 at 6:40 AM, Kuirem said:

I think that before changing anything about Wes we should ask him what he thinks about it and wait for his answer....

"Wes, I do believe it's time you change your ways."

"I can't do that."