Werebeaver form is bad and you know it

[Calomer]

In base game you need to chop trees and eat logs to keep it, if you idle you revert back.. In DST you do the same to get back to woodie, and if you don't, you lose health..

Yesterday I was fighting with deerclops and then full moon.. I lost half my health in one hit. Lost all my sanity in 10 seconds of running. Lost my wood meter because razorbeak and clops are just behind me and got punished by health lost. As I am quite experienced I ran to and took worm hole. I froze to death while eating trees.

Never got this angry in this game before. How could this form be this weak that we try very hard to avoid it?

Ok enough rant. Please give at least spear damage, at least log suit dr, some heavy insulation in that form. I would like 25 percent damage reduction from log meter and spike damage. I am cool with log meter and damage received when it's empty. I am cool with sanity drop. These punish you for staying in your form. This form should be strong enough to be punished for

[Johnny5isAlive]

This form should be strong enough to be punished for

Yeah.. If you compare the strengths of the current Beaver to the punishments for that form it seems a little bit extreme.. Like having your eyes coated in spiders for being late for work. The punishment just doesn't justify the possible reward right now and the Beaver form seems to be becoming more of a gimmick in most public servers like "Hey guys look at this cute thing I can be! *Holds for applause* Ok that's enough of that, back to Woodie" 

[Gingerbread]

 

I froze to death while eating trees.

 

This made me laugh for some reason.

 

I am sure it would be changed. No insulation is ridiculous. How you are supposed to heat urself up in that form? you are unable to reach in ur inventory and make a camp fire and werebeaver form is definitely not for combat. You can easily kill a werebeaver in pvp servers as Woodie with a log suit and spear if werebeaver does not run away. You are transforming to a form in which you are worse than your regular form and also you are being punished. Does not make any sense. Dont wanna mention terrorbreaks. You can only kill terrorbreaks without taking any damage if you are the host. If you are not host due to even a bit lag makes it unpredictable to kite terrorbreaks. In this situation Wes is much better and preferable char than Woodie.  The real challenge is with Woodie.

[CaptainFun]

I imagine that the lack of weather protection is something they implemented to stop him from running around as Werebeaver forever, since he no longer has to try to sustain the form- he only transforms back when he gnaws (I might be mistaken on this, don't use much Werebeaver because he sucks). 

 

Really, I think a few of the characters aren't where they should be right now because they don't all fit well into the multiplayer format. 

[Kzisor]

@CaptainFun, that's funny because I find Werebeaver form easier to maintain in Don't Starve than in Don't Starve Together.

 

I do agree that specific characters do not completely fit into the environment of Don't Starve Together and others fit too well. I am currently playing on a private Lan with my wife and she is playing Woodie and every time she goes into Werebeaver form she immediately transforms back into Woodie because it's so weak. When Woodie wasn't implemented and we were using the mod, she would stay as Werebeaver because it was amazing to play even though you lost all your items when you transformed.

[CaptainFun]

@CaptainFun, that's funny because I find Werebeaver form easier to maintain in Don't Starve than in Don't Starve Together.

By that comment, I meant that in DST you don't have to be constantly eating logs and consuming resources to maintain Werebeaver. You can just kind of run around and occasionally bite something. It overall takes much less resources to stay Werebeaver for long periods, although doing this in DST is completely pointless. 

 

 

 

I do agree that specific characters do not completely fit into the environment of Don't Starve Together and others fit too well. I am currently playing on a private Lan with my wife and she is playing Woodie and every time she goes into Werebeaver form she immediately transforms back into Woodie because it's so weak. When Woodie wasn't implemented and we were using the mod, she would stay as Werebeaver because it was amazing to play even though you lost all your items when you transformed.

I'm not denying that Werebeaver sucks in this. He completely does, and it's made even more pointless by the fact that Woodie can use Lucy with basically no penalty as long as he eats a small amount of the logs he harvests. 

[absimiliard]

I think Woody and the werebeaver are fine.  He's rapidly becoming my favorite character.  But I guess I don't think of the werebeaver the same way everyone else seems to.  For me the werebeaver is something you choose to turn into for short periods of time, for specific goals.

 

What I like is this:  Woody is great for flint-less wandering and gathering.  When you log into the world start chopping, get enough wood and cones (or nuts) that you are close to turning into the beaver, like one tree away or less.  Then head out.  Go explore wherever you want, so long as you get some grass you can make a campfire, and with saplings you can use torches.  Don't bother grabbing flint, you don't really need it, just keep moving.  If you see something, like gold boulders, that you want find a nearby tree, drop half your logs, and chop it down . .. . and turn into the werebeaver.  Now go gnaw the boulder down, then go eat the logs you dropped and turn back to Woody.  Grab the gold and move on.  By not staying in the beaver form for long periods you don't even lose much sanity.

 

Because the beaver can gnaw down stumps, dig up grass/saplings/berry-bushes, chew through rocks, etc. you can harvest pretty much everything you'd like for a base.  Because you don't need a pick-axe, or a shovel, you have two extra inventory slots to carry stuff in.  You're also highly flint-independent, you can wander for days without ever needing to find flint, it's not even inconvenient.  Balancing sanity/hunger/log-meter becomes it's own mini-game as well, and is kind of fun.

 

So, I guess I just don't agree.  I don't think the werebeaver form is bad at all.  I just don't think I use it the same way everyone else seems to want to use it.  I would guess that's because while I unlocked Woody in single-player I never really tried him out, so I don't miss the old form at all.

 

Just my $.02.

[DarkXero]

The werebeaver is a walking gimmick.

 

I just don't think I use it the same way everyone else seems to want to use it.

 

If I join a server at day 500 and there's no flint and nobody gives me flint and there are no bases or any resources to get flint in any way, then we have a problem, since that means only ONE out of TEN characters can survive flintless (by survive I mean do anything else than walking around with a torch).

 

Assuming the starting area and the areas next to it have non-burned trees, of course.

 

But outside that extreme case, I just get tools. Everyone gets tools. 9 out of 10 characters need tools.

So the average people play Woodie and get tools. At this point, the werebeaver has less damage and resistance than Woodie.

And Woodie can dig up stuff just as fine.

 

You can also play Woodie as a Wilson with a level 2 beard, an infinite axe, and a high chopping speed that requires you to eat 1.2 logs every mature evergreen you chop. But then I would just be picking Wilson, no gimmicks.

[Calomer]

So, I guess I just don't agree.  I don't think the werebeaver form is bad at all.  I just don't think I use it the same way everyone else seems to want to use it.  I would guess that's because while I unlocked Woody in single-player I never really tried him out, so I don't miss the old form at all.

 

I love your comment! My problem is, werebeaver has an advantage an that is true, but our look at DST is vastly different. I play with my gf, almost exclusively, in a private dedicated server. We play completely coop, almost never alone.

 

Therefore we NEVER had any issue with flint, as neither joins later or if one starts running low on flints 1- we go hunting flint, 2- we realize flint is overall not much available, we start going for gold oriented items. This means his only perk is absolutely unnecessary for me at any given point.

 

This very game, my werebeaver experiences:

1- Second day I rushed to become werebeaver and attacked a tallbird. I quickly realized I am terrible fighter with low health, almost no sanity left. Trying to right click on logs themselves is terrible..

2- Third day I became werebeaver again, to get some mining done. I was way too slower in comparison to my gf in gathering (she played wendy) as I need to gnaw way too many times. This point I realized I actually need to eat logs NOT to get damage and die from log-hunger.

3- First full moon I was prepared and I quickly ate a few logs and get back to woodie. My gf started getting much needed fireflies while I was just running around trying not to die.. I was only a headache still..

4- I became werebeaver by mistake again afterwards (wasn't paying attention), I quickly got back to woodie form to be able to keep on playing as normal.

5- Second full-moon, I am much more careful not to become werebeaver (as it is ONLY nuisance) and deerclops and terrorbeak and cold and all the bad stuff whilst she is trying to handle with all these stupid stuff I cause.

 

Overall? I was inbetween playing with either wickerbottom or woodie. I picked the wrong character to bring something to table. He is good to use insane sanity drain items, and quickly recover (we had 200~ pine cones at day 33). Wickerbottom can spawn tentacles / can spawn birds / make everything sleep. She is very seriously powerful in comparison, in every way (into team play).

 

Another issue was treeguards. I NEVER spawned any treeguards whilst chopping trees. I don't know whether this is intended or not. I chopped over a few hundred trees myself, then used 4 pigs to do this faster. When pigs started attacking, the very first attack they made to tree, they spawned a tree guard that we killed (good). Then I just kept the forest get bigger for winter (for clops). When deerclops spawned, it literally knocked over at least 100+ trees, spawned in total 1-2 treeguards at most. This part is tricky, I thought we were unlucky and played this part 10 times (again and again, as I was dying to becoming werebeaver, I wanted to test this out in detail). I kept kiting him through trees for whole day and dusk, and we would spawn maybe a single treeguard.

 

I wonder what's the deal with woodie and the treeguards.. Maybe he reduces the chance for treeguards to spawn? I don't know, never had this issue before. 

[CaptainFun]

You can also play Woodie as a Wilson with a level 2 beard, an infinite axe, and a high chopping speed that requires you to eat 1.2 logs every mature evergreen you chop. But then I would just be picking Wilson, no gimmicks.

You also get the sanity regen from planting trees so he's probably a bit better for players who struggle with sanity...

 

Although, Woodie is really only going to struggle with sanity if you go Werebeaver. It's probably a nice option on servers with no flowers though. 

[DarkXero]

I wonder what's the deal with woodie and the treeguards.. Maybe he reduces the chance for treeguards to spawn? I don't know, never had this issue before.

 

This was just luck. Treeguard spawning rate is very low the first days.

I picked Woodie and got a treeguard day 1 after chopping roughly 20 trees.

 

You also get the sanity regen from planting trees so he's probably a bit better for players who struggle with sanity... Although, Woodie is really only going to struggle with sanity if you go Werebeaver. It's probably a nice option on servers with no flowers though.

 

Yes, 40 pinecones = 200 sanity.

 

If you start on a server with no flowers, you can prototype or use a top hat or a straw roll, early on.

I only really use flowers in spring, because they are just all over the place.

 

With Woodie sanity isn't an issue at all.

You chop wood and you chop wood. You eat some wood, you make chests, you plant the pinecones.

If you don't want the wood, eat it or burn it or store it.

If you don't want to play this tedious sanity minigame, just eat logs once on a while and resort to the methods that 8 out of 10 characters use to keep sanity. Wigfrid just holds F.

[absimiliard]

Wigfrid just holds F.

 

I LOL-ed at this -- mostly because it's true. 

[enragedcamel]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the werebeaver form a "curse"?

 

Curses are supposed to be bad things.

 

You aren't supposed to try to stay in werebeaver form. You're supposed to try to avoid it. It's much like when someone turns into a werewolf in fantasy fiction: they don't view it as an "enhanced" form, they don't say, "gosh I hope I turn into a werewolf so I can go hunt all the animals easily." Most of the time it's the opposite, they're embarrassed by their curse because it's a bad thing.

[RalphKastro]

he should be stronger and have drawbacks, not just the drawbacks. I don't think his minimal insulation and movement speed really count as pros.

razorbeak

that sounds like some kind of creepy horror game monstrer. Like a Giant bird with actual razors as a beak.

Like having your eyes coated in spiders for being late for work.

a Note here: If this is happening to you, I suggest you quit your job. Like, right now. Just ******* run.

[DarkXero]

You aren't supposed to try to stay in werebeaver form. You're supposed to try to avoid it.

 

And it's so easy to stay away from the werebeaver form that it might as well not exist.

 

Again, a gimmick.

 

It's much like when someone turns into a werewolf in fantasy fiction: they don't view it as an "enhanced" form, they don't say, "gosh I hope I turn into a werewolf so I can go hunt all the animals easily." Most of the time it's the opposite, they're embarrassed by their curse because it's a bad thing.

 

This is opinion. There are many scenarios.

If a curse is a punishment, and it's applied to a murderer, then maybe he would enjoy slicing and dicing people more.

Then again I don't know if somebody is aware of himself while on werewolf form.

But I'm not a werewolf expert, I'm a mermaid expert.

 

There are also many interpretations in fantasy as to what is a curse.

Some items just give undesired effects. Others, trade off effects.

Imagine an item that sets your max health at 1. (Curse)

Imagine a passive effect you are more vulnerable to status effects if you are below 50% health.

Imagine another item that says that the less number of health you have, the more damage you deal.

Now you combo and get the most of the curse. You use mana barriers or something else.

 

 

We are not trying to align Woodie with folklore, we are trying to make him fun.

In Skyrim you can turn into a werewolf and do cool stuff.

His curse sucks from a gameplay standpoint. People will hoard logs and turn back as soon as possible.

[CaptainFun]

Yes, 40 pinecones = 200 sanity.

 

If you start on a server with no flowers, you can prototype or use a top hat or a straw roll, early on.

I only really use flowers in spring, because they are just all over the place.

 

With Woodie sanity isn't an issue at all.

You chop wood and you chop wood. You eat some wood, you make chests, you plant the pinecones.

If you don't want the wood, eat it or burn it or store it.

If you don't want to play this tedious sanity minigame, just eat logs once on a while and resort to the methods that 8 out of 10 characters use to keep sanity. Wigfrid just holds F.

Pretty much. I guess the pinecone thing was implemented so he had an easy way to recover it from Werebeaver. Still it doesn't actually make Werebeaver worthwhile in the first place.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the werebeaver form a "curse"?

 

Curses are supposed to be bad things.

 

You aren't supposed to try to stay in werebeaver form. You're supposed to try to avoid it. It's much like when someone turns into a werewolf in fantasy fiction: they don't view it as an "enhanced" form, they don't say, "gosh I hope I turn into a werewolf so I can go hunt all the animals easily." Most of the time it's the opposite, they're embarrassed by their curse because it's a bad thing.

It's a curse, yes, but in Don't Starve it was something you were meant to have to prepare for, but could capitalize on. When Werebeaver ended you were hit with the basic resurrection penalty, but you could have spent that time gathering a lot of resources/fighting. 

[RalphKastro]

Curses are supposed to be bad things.

Tell that to (most)Vampires, Eve from Binding of Isaac and the common Evil Werewolf who actually has some control over it. Curses can be nice, if you know how to use them, and every cursed videogame player character that is not Simon Belmont.

But I don't think the werebieber is supposed to be good. Just an alternate mode, kinda like a new character inside a character. It must have pros and cons. Like, it could have stronger(but not massively strong) attacks and better insulation against cold, but overheat easily and be slower(so getting out of a lost fight is harder) or harder to uncurse(so you get screwed if you're not prepared for some event). 

[Hypersomnia]

I think most people have their doubts about the new approach because they had expectations from playing single player that they wanted Woodie to meet in DST, like a specific idea of what he is 'supposed' to be able to do.

 

However, the developers wanted to experiment with a new gameplay mechanic for the werebeaver, and @absimiliard figured out the way Klei wants the new one to be played. Before, Woodie's alternate form was strong in almost every aspect, gifted with combat proficiency, excellent weather resistance and highly efficient gathering with the ability to gnaw a large assortment of things. Now, the werebeaver is definitely not strong in combat, but he can still gnaw a high amount of objects that are relatively close to each other in a short time. As opposed to an overall blessing, now he's a werebeaver who terrifyingly excels at gathering resources, I guess. (What? He's not a werewolf!)

 

The sanity restoring pine cone mechanic has another use that hasn't been mentioned too: Woodie can naturally help counter the lack of trees that almost inevitably occurs as worlds become old, so his regaining sanity from planting isn't an exclusive perk. Others benefit from it as well, in a different way.

 

I think what Klei wanted, in general, was to make the werebeaver a big but costly and short-lasting advantage. That sounds great, in my opinion. However, right now, I think the problem isn't the cost. Rather, the advantage isn't considerable enough to make transforming into a werebeaver, and receiving penalties that might make everything worth it in the end, desirable.

[Mario384]

I'll be honest, I personally want to be able to somehow sustain as the werebeaver, like you could do in regular DS.  A *short-lived* transformation isn't good because you only get so much out of it, that Woodie with Lucy and a couple of tools could without the sanity drain.  Face it, current Werebeaver is useless until he gets a change.

[Gingerbread]

I think Woody and the werebeaver are fine.  He's rapidly becoming my favorite character.  But I guess I don't think of the werebeaver the same way everyone else seems to.  For me the werebeaver is something you choose to turn into for short periods of time, for specific goals.

 

What I like is this:  Woody is great for flint-less wandering and gathering.  When you log into the world start chopping, get enough wood and cones (or nuts) that you are close to turning into the beaver, like one tree away or less.  Then head out.  Go explore wherever you want, so long as you get some grass you can make a campfire, and with saplings you can use torches.  Don't bother grabbing flint, you don't really need it, just keep moving.  If you see something, like gold boulders, that you want find a nearby tree, drop half your logs, and chop it down . .. . and turn into the werebeaver.  Now go gnaw the boulder down, then go eat the logs you dropped and turn back to Woody.  Grab the gold and move on.  By not staying in the beaver form for long periods you don't even lose much sanity.

 

Because the beaver can gnaw down stumps, dig up grass/saplings/berry-bushes, chew through rocks, etc. you can harvest pretty much everything you'd like for a base.  Because you don't need a pick-axe, or a shovel, you have two extra inventory slots to carry stuff in.  You're also highly flint-independent, you can wander for days without ever needing to find flint, it's not even inconvenient.  Balancing sanity/hunger/log-meter becomes it's own mini-game as well, and is kind of fun.

 

So, I guess I just don't agree.  I don't think the werebeaver form is bad at all.  I just don't think I use it the same way everyone else seems to want to use it.  I would guess that's because while I unlocked Woody in single-player I never really tried him out, so I don't miss the old form at all.

 

Just my $.02.

 

No problem with werebeaver form when you intentionally tansform it to chop down trees. Did you try to survive with Woodie in winter? Full moon in winter he transforms into Werebeaver as in all full moons. Winter nights are damn long and cold. He has no insulation factor in werebeaver form. If you are playing on your own there will be noone to warm you up in werebeaver form. His log meter crazily goes down. If it reaches to zero you take hp damage. So you have to gnaw trees to make ur log meter up to 100 to become Woodie because in that form also your sanity goes down really quickly so you dont wanna stay in Werebeaver form. But the real challenge is even if you become Woodie still your log meter goes down and when it reaches to 25 you become werebeaver once again. So all you have to do is to eat every twigs and logs in your inventory once you manage to become Woodie again. if you go back to Werebeaver once again and if the weather is cold and if you cannot transform back to Woodie, you start to take cold damage.

 

Also PvP servers. What is the benefit of taking woodie in a PvP server? None. you are useless in a very long full moon night and also the trees you may wanna gnaw may be surrounded by people who wanna hunt you down. You will escape from them to find another trees. Congrats you are insane now and terrorbreaks are on your tail. Also your log meter goes down to zero and you are taking hp damage since your log meter is 0, you cannot gnaw trees cuz terrorbreaks wanna gnaw you, you will eventually feeel cold and start to take cold damage as well as log meter damage. Impossible to survive XD. There is no point to transform into Werebeaver in any case in PvP servers because you dont need that much log. Your purpose is not getting log.

[tracc]

I agree that the werebeaver is seriously underpowered. When fighting he should at least lose beaver-meter before losing health. Also I would Suggest giving him one item slot in which he can carry only logs. this way even if he isnt as strong as before you still have some kind of advantage because you can gather ressources or fight smaller battles without losing health.

 

 

[SoupyDelicious]

Yeah.. If you compare the strengths of the current Beaver to the punishments for that form it seems a little bit extreme.. Like having your eyes coated in spiders for being late for work. The punishment just doesn't justify the possible reward right now and the Beaver form seems to be becoming more of a gimmick in most public servers like "Hey guys look at this cute thing I can be! *Holds for applause* Ok that's enough of that, back to Woodie" 

Guys, there's gotta be some risk in having such a reward.  That's what the game's about.  Beaver form is very strong.

 

You're all too used to all the easiness in games these days, with developers always giving in to the masses begging for easier.

[leonseye]

Guys, there's gotta be some risk in having such a reward.  That's what the game's about.  Beaver form is very strong.

 

You're all too used to all the easiness in games these days, with developers always giving in to the masses begging for easier.

 

The complaint is that the reward is no longer worth the risk, which I agree w/.  Beaver form is not very strong, that's why this thread exists.

 

Woodie himself is pretty strong, though.  If they were trying to make Beaver form actually feel like a curse, I definitely feel like I'm being punished when he changes into it now.

 

I'm not sure if that's exactly what they were going for, though.  <.<

 

Before, it was very clear what their intention for the character was:  Woodie is 4 gather, Beaver is 4 fite.

 

Now, Woodie is better at fighting and gathering and surviving, and beaver is for.. losing sanity, I guess.  It's certainly not for fighting anymore.  I guess you could use it to mine w/out pickaxes or something.

[Gingerbread]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the werebeaver form a "curse"?

 

Curses are supposed to be bad things.

 

You aren't supposed to try to stay in werebeaver form. You're supposed to try to avoid it. It's much like when someone turns into a werewolf in fantasy fiction: they don't view it as an "enhanced" form, they don't say, "gosh I hope I turn into a werewolf so I can go hunt all the animals easily." Most of the time it's the opposite, they're embarrassed by their curse because it's a bad thing.

 

It is a curse but curse must have a down side as well as OP rewards for short period of time

 

Pros and Cons of being a Werebeaver in current form is:

 

Pros:

1)You can gnaw pretty much every object in the game, you can still attack mobs.

2) You dont need flint for gathering resources.

3) you can gnaw objects very quickly.

 

But, you are as fragile as moleworm when it comes to fight.

 

Cons:

1) You are making an axe damage to the other mobs so you are not OP or anything for a short period of time. You are a useless character so if your friends need help when you are at this form, you cannot and they are pretty much on their own.

2) You have no armor  in that form so you are unluckier than a wes with a log suit and spear

3) You have no inventory.

4) You have no insulation.

5) Dilemma in very long and cold full moon nights (you transform into a werebeaver. Your log meter quickly goes down as well as your sanity. If your log meter reaches to 0 you take damage. Since it is cold you also take cold damage. You lose sanity and now you have many hostile shadow creatures around you in addition to cold damage and log meter damage. To be a human you need to make ur log meter up to 100. When you are human still your log meter goes down quickly during full moon so you have to eat all logs during this night not to become a werebeaver. When you are a werebeaver you cannot warm urself since you cannot make a camp fire and you cannot use your inventoy items such as making torch and lighting a tree.

 

Well as you can see cons surpasses pros. I would expect 5 really good advantage and 5 very bad side. Then it can be called as curse.

 

Look at skyrim. You can be a vampire. Vampire lord form is really OP but you have a lot of cons such as eating and taking sun damage and no regeneration in daytime. But vampire lord form is too damn good. So there is a reason to be a vampire..

 

Whats the reason to be a Werebeaver in PvP servers? You have no armor and you can make an axe damage. if you dont wanna run away from people on your tail, there is no reason to be a werebeaver. Cool curse really.

 

Wes is a much balanced character than Woodie at this time for experienced players the reason is:

 

1) You can reach to your inventory at any time

2) you can make a log suit and spear at full moon nights

3) you can make ur sanity up because your inventory is available even in full moon nights

4) you can successfully kill beefalos and make a beefalo hat on your own for winter which provides insulation factor even at full moon nights

 

and what is cons?

 

1)0.75 damage multiplier which is same as Wendy.

2)Does not talk and warn you if something is coming (does not matter for those who knows game mechanics, this is not really in cons for an experienced player)

3)His hunger drains quicker (its kind of managing to keep Wolfgang's hunger bar in normal form interval at any time, not in cons for an experienced player)

 

A pretty balanced pros and cons also not a bad char for an experienced player and not really a challenging except 0.75 damage multiplier if you ask me.

 

What should they do is,

 

I am OK with the curent form if you transform to werebeaver by chopping down trees. No insulation, axe damage and no damage protection is OK if player intentionally transforms into a Werebeaver.

 

But when it is full moon, you have a huge sanity drop, log meter drop. So at that night some pros must be added. These pros only exclusive to this night should include.

 

[Johnny5isAlive]

@SoupyDelicious, Don't Starve was already easy as it was. Then Don't Starve Together just made it laughably easy. I find myself not even having to focus anymore, simply going through the motions and before I can even wake up and realise what I'm doing my base is finished. It's stopped being difficult at all and become more of a test to see how quickly you can set the entire base up. Hell if you know what you're doing it's possible to start farming the Dragonfly for scales by DAY FIVE.

 

We aren't asking for an easier game, we're simply asking for the mechanics to not be useless. As is the werebeaver is weaker than a sheet of paper and there is absolutely no reason to become it, especially considering how strong Woodie himself was made.