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Dec 11 Update: Naughty & Nice Release Notes!


Corey
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That's also been happening to me (Chrome, OS X). First time I played post-update, everything was fine, but when I logged out and came back later, all my XP, characters, and research were gone.

It's fixed? Does that mean I won't need to re-grind all that XP and research, or just that it'll start saving them again?

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I'm confused with this patch Kevin. If you don't want me to spend all my time gathering berries and farming in my "turtle shell" of a camp then you need to ENCOURAGE me to hunt. Everything your doing recently is pushing me away from wanting to be a nomadic hunter. I hunt pigs, rabbits, tallbirds, dogs, spiders, etc . . . That's how I have fun wandering the map taking risks and not turtling up.

Yet now krampus will punish me if I do anything EXCEPT gather some seeds, pick up some poop, and start farming and building up my defenses. This isn't what you said you intended but it is what I'm looking at. Instead of being rewarded for taking the risk of attacking pigs, beefolo herds, tallbirds, and other dangerous animals for food, I'm getting punished and called "naughty" for my good behavior.

Even if I'm willing to be "punished" for being "naughty" and continue avoiding farming I'm still forced to turtle up to protect my chests. I can't simply wander halfway across the map killing things and exploring, instead I have to stay close to my base and be prepared to run back at a moments notice to protect my chests.

I'd say you want me to hunt monsters, but you punish us for that too until we get a crock pot up and running. Its simply more effective to be bored and play a combination of sim-fortress and farmville.

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Just because the Krampus calls something naughty doesn't mean you can't do it. And if you kill enough krampii, you might even get to steal his sack. It is delightfully capacious!

In all seriousness, though, every action in the game needs a pushback. Krampus is the meat gathering pushback. Gobbler + fire hounds are the berry farm pushback. Every option at Wilson's disposal needs to involve tradeoffs.

Oh, and... there are tricksy ways to get meat without provoking the Krampus if you try hard enough :)

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Hey, Kevin -- the Chrome save bug is still happening. I restarted Chrome, started up a new game, and completely emptied my starting island of Grass Tufts. It was kind of fun to see how fast I could unlock ALL research that way -- it only took me 6 days. Unfortunately, upon leaving the game and coming back, I found all my research cleared again.

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Got my first krompas kill in, and now I've got a stack of 9 charcoal floating in the air "inside" one of my pig houses. I also had some floating rocks but I managed to pick them up and put them away. The charcoal just leads my character to try to walk endlessly into the pig house until I finally call it quits on trying to pick the thing up.

Gotta say this is some overkill as far as kickback on meat gathering goes. Meat already is a dangerous thing to gather since you can get hurt or even killed attacking pigs, beefolo, and other dangerous things. I have to say I'd rather make things like the rabbits and birds more dangerous to attack than have this guy decide to come steal all my stuff, at least the gobblers stick to berries. It's not like krompus is stealing just meat. lol.

On the other hand I'm looking forward to getting a sack, though if it's like the backpack I'm going to be more than annoyed since I can't safely hunt meat in a log suit AND wear a backpack. Hunting dangerous beasts without armor isn't too bright, especially if your like me and refuse to use amulets and effigies.

Edited by winddbourne
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Loving the new framerate. The game's style has always given me a "Paper Mario" feel with how items in the environment pop out and don't change as you rotate the map. The increased framerate has done a lot to make this "pop-up book style" stand out even more. It really is a gorgeous game.

As a whole, though, great patch!

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Oh, and... there are tricksy ways to get meat without provoking the Krampus if you try hard enough :)

Oh Kevin, you're so tricksy. But I've found one of these ways, with Wendy...

Lay down traps. Wait for them to catch some wascally wabbits. Leave them in the trap until dusk, when Abigail comes out to "play". Now drop the wabbits in between you and Abby, and walk away. There you go, dead wabbits, no Naughtiness accrued.

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Gotta say this is some overkill as far as kickback on meat gathering goes. Meat already is a dangerous thing to gather since you can get hurt or even killed attacking pigs, beefolo, and other dangerous things. I have to say I'd rather make things like the rabbits and birds more dangerous to attack than have this guy decide to come steal all my stuff, at least the gobblers stick to berries. It's not like krompus is stealing just meat. lol.

This is the first addition to the game i've actively come to hate, I find the entire character completely unnessicary and annoying. Collecting rabbits and birds was already a very lackluster way to feed yourself even before he existed. I'm hoping he's only around for Xmas because I honestly find myself more or less exploiting the game to avoid this, I've stopped using chests and just swap backpacks to store food since he avoids those.

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Hi everyone!

First post here, but I've been reading along a while. By the way my thanks to Toaster Fu, LadyD, cptCalavera, 501105 and everyone else who provides so much helpful information here, making the forum fun to read. Also thanks to Kevin and the team for creating an awesome game I really enjoy - you're doing a great job!

So here's my feedback on the new update:

After reading the patchnotes I decided that Wilson, as a man of science, must find this new Krampus-creature and study its habits. So I had to abandon Wilson's usual nice-guy-persona, practiced my evil-scientist-laught, and left camp to provoke the fiend by being naughty. First I built a hammer and bludgeoned every rabbit I encountered, then used traps to catch them as well as birds, and Wilson would have probably had a hard time getting sleep that night had the game allowed me to put live animals into the crock pot.

The next day, after a bit of hammer-time with the bunnymen Krampus showed up, ready to avenge all the helpless critters! Or so I thought, because all he did was stand there and make dirty gestures at me with his tounge. I figured I couldn't trust him, so I changed into armor and had my tentacle spike at the ready. But he didn't do anything besides pick up a seed a bird had dropped next to him. When I came a little closer, he ran away until he reached a near cliff. I decided to put him out of his misery, maybe an autopsy would reveal more.

Sadly, two lumps of coal, monster meat, and the aforementioned seeds did not help in uncovering his secrets.

So I repeated the process by pacifying a nearby pig village. This time, 3 Krampii showed up when I went back to camp, probably screaming bloody murder because I had slain their brother and was covered in pig-blood. I prepared to die in battle, and they .. well they went for my stuff! They trashed a chest and looted two others, but were quickly cut to shreds by Wilson erupting with Nerd Rage.

So finally, after I had been as naughty as humanly possible, collecting tons of tasty meat in the process, the game "punishes" me by leaving my camp in disarray? I have to rebuild that chest, and pick up all the items from the floor, carefully putting them back into the right chest: One for food, one for building materials.. because Wilson is that kind of guy I guess ;-) But other than that, nothing bad had happened.

---

So i went to the forum to find out what Krampus's deal was.

In all seriousness, though, every action in the game needs a pushback. Krampus is the meat gathering

pushback. Gobbler + fire hounds are the berry farm pushback. Every option at Wilson's disposal needs to involve

tradeoffs.

A meat gathering pushback is a great idea, because it's far to easy to hoard hundreds of morsels with zero chance of being killed by farming rabbits for example. But right now, Krampus is not a real pushback, only a mild annoyance. I mean he opens your chests, grabs a bunch of things, and scatters them across the floor after being whacked over the head - that's about the same thing that would happen if the underpants-gnomes attacked.

And let's say Krampus was successful, and really got away with some of your stuff, and for some unlikely reason, you can't find him, why did he punish you for farming too much meat not by taking your meat, but by taking whatever he can get?

Was I naughty when I collected carrots, chopped down some trees and mined rocks? I think not. Was it naughty to abuse a game mechanic like meat farming ad nauseam and almost turn the game into a mindless and repetitive "whack-a-rabbit"? Definitely yes, and the game should deter from that. But in the current state, the mechanic only trolls you every 60 or so rabbit kills by wasting 2 minutes of your time rearranging items in chests without actually taking away the resource it is supposed to control.

So why not go for the direct route, and have the creature simply only allow a certain amount of meat to be farmed per week for example. If you obsessively farm meat then the creature will appear and bust open your chest and eat some of your meat, or if you carry it on your person, punch or push you to make you drop it, and then eat it. If you didn't overfarm meat then after some days, the timer is reset and allows a little farming again.

Also, and I know this is nitpicking and probably only slightly bothers me because I happen to live in one of the strange countries Krampus originates, he is a creature of winter, and associated with the christmas season. Since I am looking forward to playing the full game in spring or summer 2013, I figure he wouldn't fit in as well then as he does now. Why not replace him with another hungry creature that comes for your food when you're a naughty food herder and maybe have him return to harass you when the "Winter is coming" update is released?

Anyway, that completes my thoughts on the new update for now I guess. Really looking forward to the final game, the guys at Klei rock!

If you made it this far thanks for reading :-)

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The pushback for berry farming is being able to kill gobblers, which is a reward. The pushback for meat farming is krampus which is annoying and not fun. Honestly what turned me off from farming is simply having to manure all the crops. If I was thinking about gobblers at all I'd start planting bushes near the coast and chase them into the waterline for a tidbit and a drumstick. Fire hounds are more annoying, but they don't simply come at farmers, they come at me, and I kill them for teeth and gems.

A better pushback for me hunting rabbits or other harmless animals is simply to give them a life cycle that includes dangerous periods. Lets start this by looking at rabbits and pigs.

Jackalope Life Cycle

(start) Rabbit - These guys are fast and easy to kill if you know how, which is good as a new character is fairly weak and needs some help to start a hunting lifestyle. If your smart this is the first enemy your likely to try your tactics on with spear and axe.

[summer] Jackalope - Summer starts around day thirty and immediately those cute little bunnies grow much bigger, and grow antlerlike horns. When caught alone they still dart down holes if attacked but now each one injures you a bit before leaving. If you get too near 3 or more of these they will also attack and try to take you out as a group charging at speed to try and each get at least one hit in. Now these are dangerous animals. You need to be careful where you walk in the prairie and hunting them takes some effort.

[Fall] Long Eared Deer - in fall the Jackalopes grow up into large deer-like creatures. They wander in herds of 3-5 animals and try to avoid the player. Long eared deer have the equivalent of armor and spears, plus they are never alone. If you kill one it will eventually respawn in the herd with the lowest numbers. Deer herds wander the entire map.

[Winter] Venimen - In winter the final metamorphosis into deer headed humanoids happens. These guys wear loincloths and carry spears. They also immediately begin migrating back to the holes that fist spawned them like salmon in spring. They set up Teepees over the holes and are very territorial, attacking anyone who comes too close to them during their "mating" season.

[spring] Rabbits + guardians - Come the second spring any Venimen who survive take down their teepees and begin wandering the prairie staying close to the rabbit holes. They have lost their antlers and now wear feathered hats looking like rabbit men with their long ears. So long as you don't attack them or the rabbits they are friendly and will provide poop like a pig man if fed flowers. However if you attack a rabbit in any life stage they will attack you. Guardians don't respawn, they have to come from a full rabbit life cycle, so if you manage to cautiously kill them all in early spring your back to productive rabbit farming; at least until the rabbits turn into Jackalopes come summer!

Piggy Push Back

Stage 1) Just like the pigs now, except they make a bit more sense. These are greedy, hungry, pig men who are only following you because your a good source of food. You paid up front and now they are after you for more. So they now expect to be fed once a day or they go home. They also will try to pick up any food left laying on the ground, such as a tasty morsel when you kill a rabbit, or monster meat. They also will run away if they get to low health, they are pigs, not fanatical warriors. They want to live!

Stage 2) You've rapidly killed more than a few pigs from this same pig house and now the pigs here are spawning wearing armor. This makes it a bit harder to kill this houses inhabitants compared to previous visits. They have learned to be wary of you and while they are still friendly in the village they will never follow you away!

Stage 3) You kept killing pig men without giving them time to forget, all from this same pig house, and now they are prepared to fight back and have picked up large sticks (clubs) with which to beat on you should you prove hostile. This stage only happens in natural pig villages as pigs you "raised" yourself are domesticated and may try to protect themselves but wouldn't think of harming their "mother". From this point on they are ready to protect themselves and may randomly attack you if you do certain things near them. Things like equipping weapons, staying to long, starting a fire, etc . . . they don't mind you visiting in peace, but they are not your friends, and don't want you around long term.

Stage 4) This stage also only happens only in pig villages you have not built yourself. At this point the pigs begin building walls around their village so you will have a harder time running away from them if they swarm.

At first these stages happen house by house, but near the end certain stages effect the entire village as pigs like to gossip and word of your bad behavior spreads. There may be pigs who are unarmed and armorless in a village that has walls, but they still won't follow you out, or let you live with them. This encourages you to kill pigs from different houses, wait a while between barbeques, and actually not abuse the system with either massive pig farms or massive pig armies.

All of my suggestions push back by making it more difficult to kill an animal that has been "abused" as time goes on. The rabbits simply go through their life cycle and become more dangerous regardless, the pig men in my post behave more rationally rather than suddenly becoming your "friend for life" just because you fed them and forgetting all of your past actions. Everything we do should have consequences. Plant a lot of berry bushes and you need to fertilize, kill a lot of pigs and they become dangerous. Plus the world itself becomes more hostile as time goes on.

The problem with krampus is that it isn't FUN. Sure you can trigger him by being a total rabbit killing machine, but you can also trigger him without realizing it by killing a single rabbit every few days, one pig a week, or a tall-bird who was trying to kill you. He isn't rewarding or challenging like a gobbler, but just plain annoying. It's the sort of thing that makes you feel less excited to play even when your a real fan of the game.

Edited by winddbourne
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The problem with krampus is that it isn't FUN. Sure you can trigger him by being a total rabbit killing machine, but you can also trigger him without realizing it by killing a single rabbit every few days, one pig a week, or a tall-bird who was trying to kill you. He isn't rewarding or challenging like a gobbler, but just plain annoying. It's the sort of thing that makes you feel less excited to play even when your a real fan of the game.

I agree. Nothing about his AI makes the game more fun and enjoyable. In fact the opposite happens. I feel discouraged to do certain actions. Many players, not myself included, will take this to mean they will never be naughty and they will feel forced into farming. If this is what you wanted then i have to question why.

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A meat gathering pushback is a great idea, because it's far to easy to hoard hundreds of morsels with zero chance of being killed by farming rabbits for example. But right now, Krampus is not a real pushback, only a mild annoyance. I mean he opens your chests, grabs a bunch of things, and scatters them across the floor after being whacked over the head - that's about the same thing that would happen if the underpants-gnomes attacked.

And let's say Krampus was successful, and really got away with some of your stuff, and for some unlikely reason, you can't find him, why did he punish you for farming too much meat not by taking your meat, but by taking whatever he can get?

Was I naughty when I collected carrots, chopped down some trees and mined rocks? I think not. Was it naughty to abuse a game mechanic like meat farming ad nauseam and almost turn the game into a mindless and repetitive "whack-a-rabbit"? Definitely yes, and the game should deter from that. But in the current state, the mechanic only trolls you every 60 or so rabbit kills by wasting 2 minutes of your time rearranging items in chests without actually taking away the resource it is supposed to control.

Welcome to the forums Nokaret!

I actually really agree with this. Stuff goes on the floor, oh well pick it back up, go get meat again.

I know they want want to nerf it but it really doesn't stop me from killing rabbits excessively. If anything I'd kill even more to try and get a Krampus Sack, but there's no actual threat, i feel, to killing animals for meat, so hasn't helped to make a decent meat gathering pushback.

Edited by Arcadias
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Do you feel "discouraged" from logging because of tree guards? Do you avoid chopping entirely so you won't be "punished" with fighting an enemy?

Just stand up and kill Krampus, he's not that hard a fight.

I killed him quickly on my first encounter -- he got one hit in which took 13% off my logsuit, then he died. He spawns by walking onto your screen, so it's not like he's going to take your stuff without your knowledge. The coal he drops is nice, and his rare drop is amazing and totally worth fighting him as many times as possible.

I feel like too many people want this game to be Minecraft. This game isn't minecraft. (Personally, I hope it keeps taking inspiration from rougelike-ish games.) And still other people have gotten too used to playing the game with no mid/endgame content, and so are attached to the current placeholder progression. I hope they don't affect the direction of development too much.

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