Obsession with PvP - Why?

[Khrayfish]

Now let's go over it, the combat in this game is very simple, and specifically designed for PvE, how do you guys actually think PvP will go?

 

It will be like 1v1'ing a Pigman.

The range weapons in this game aren't skill shot based, they're simply targeted attacks.

 

So please enlighten me about how PvP in this game will actually be both fun and rewarding...

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, it's called Don't Starve TOGETHER, that suggests Co-op, and besides, I'm just going to be playing on a private server with my mates anyway, I don't understand the obsession with PvP in Don't Starve...

[J20hawkz]

We are discussing things about PvP and PvE here http://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/36216-dont-starve-multiplayer-pvp-new-option-5-see-summary-in-op/

Feel free to join in.

[Spazmatic]

Thing is, since the only known thing about multiplayer is that it's actually a thing now, pretty much everything is food for speculation. The core PvE game will most likely not change that much, apart from some balancing here and there. The Together in DST so far only implies you will be on the island together, not that it's solely a co-op mode (though it is likely). There has been no confirmation on the inclusion or lack of PvP, and imo that makes it a bigger subject amongst the forum. The big unknown.

 

Personally, I'd like PvP in DS since it adds another danger into the island suvival: Your fellow survivor. Fun is subjective in nature though, surely everyone will have their own reason to find PvP fun (regardless of DS's combat system). I would find the reward in the added element of danger, a way to make the game more unforgiving when played with strangers.. But hey that's just me

[Khrayfish]

Yes but the thing is, the combat system in Don't Starve is so bland (I'm not saying that's bad - It works well for PvE) that PvP will not be a matter of who is the most skilled player but rather who is the most kitted out.

[mrtwoface]

Yes but the thing is, the combat system in Don't Starve is so bland (I'm not saying that's bad - It works well for PvE) that PvP will not be a matter of who is the most skilled player but rather who is the most kitted out.

They will likely change it if they add PvP so that it works better when fighting other people.

[Maximum124]

Yes but the thing is, the combat system in Don't Starve is so bland (I'm not saying that's bad - It works well for PvE) that PvP will not be a matter of who is the most skilled player but rather who is the most kitted out.

 

I don't see why that's necessarily a bad thing, are you saying that if a player is horrible at combat that they should somehow have a boost at fighting? It just encourages players to get better at fighting. Or for people to team up against enemy players.

[Khrayfish]

They will likely change it if they add PvP so that it works better when fighting other people.

 

Then the forum/community needs to direct it's focus onto this then.

 

 

Edit: 

 

I don't see why that's necessarily a bad thing, are you saying that if a player is horrible at combat that they should somehow have a boost at fighting? It just encourages players to get better at fighting. Or for people to team up against enemy players.

 

 

No, I'm saying that IS what the current combat system is like. The game suffers the same combat issues as Minecraft, which is simply put: 

 

Player A has better Weapons/Armour than Player B.

Player A wins the fight.

 

Now for Minecraft, the skill cap is a tiny bit higher because you actually have to aim, but when the has auto-targeting like Don't Starve, you don't.

 

Now once again, I'm not attacking Don't Starve's combat system, I think it's fine for PvE but it isn't fine for PvP and needs to be addressed first.

[Maximum124]

Then the forum/community needs to direct it's focus onto this then.

 

No need for improved combat if there's no PvP.

[oCrapaCreeper]

I can picture that one guy who will join a session as Maxwell and destroy everyone with his dark sword night armor and Codex Umbra.

 

Please no.

[mizukisha]

I agree with the author of that topic ! I don't really like the Pvp Thing ! What do you think about a player with thelucite armor,club and crown Vs A player with football helmet/Log suit : It feel so bad. I'm worried about the player with the log suit and football helmet because he prefer to psend his time on the world map instead of going in the caves farming because he is not well equipped !

Why do you want to change a Pve game for a Pvp? it is for fun? Prove that someone is better than another? The title of the game is don't starve together . the game must be friendly not a war zone ! 

[Pyromailmann]

Please, PVP is a very big and repetitive thing in games. In FPS' it's mainly "SHOOT AND KILL" which I hate (exceptions being TF2 because it's "Work as a team to win".) In Minecraft PVP is a sense is the most terrible thing in the game and can ruin most of it's premise.

[jbeetle]

They will likely change it if they add PvP so that it works better when fighting other people.

I actually don't think they will. The game will never have enthralling combat in my opinion. However, giving the option for friendly fire adds just another element that prevents the game from getting stale.

 

@Khrayfish If we're going to talk about blandness, magnifying the surviving aspect of the game x4 is equally as bland. I just want options. Besides, just like some of the ones (few) that were against multiplayer, the ones against pvp are just as "obsessed."

I think when people who hate pvp hear pvp they just think "constantly running at an enemy with a spear and armor" when in reality I don't think it would be so easy...especially if pvp was just a side objective.

 

In Minecraft PVP is a sense is the most terrible thing in the game and can ruin most of it's premise.

How?

[Hudxesonael]

I think that PvP is overall a controversial subject in DS that's why people tend to talk more about it than about a cooperative play. We all know that coop will be awesome 

[Pyromailmann]

How?

Griefers.

[jbeetle]

Griefers.

Killing someone on a pvp-enabled server isn't griefing. You'll learn what griefing is the hard way if you do public DST, whether they add friendly fire or not :/

[NeoDeusMachina]

I honestly will never play any form of PvP on Don't Starve. In my opinion, it only is suited for coop and any PvP mode that we could eventually have will either be really unbalanced or broken. Things are so easily destroyed in Don't Starve, you can basically ruin hours of work with only 2 twigs and 2 grass. Not to mention the fact that fighting in itself is poorly designed for PvP.

 

Also, I have seen a lot of bug report posts about Webber still auto targetting his friendly spiders and people are not so happy about it. What will happen when you hit a coop player ''by mistake'', giving him the killing blow during a giant fight ? People are not going to be happy about friendly fire or PvP anymore. Oh yeah, what about the: ''I hit you twice with my ice staff, you were looking away from your monitor for a second and missed it, sorry you are frozen. Let me put down a full stack of explosives at your feet will ya? Hang on, don't move. Oh you are frozen, true, you can't move! haha! Ok, now, let me light it up, it will help you warm up... Just a little bit...''

 

The only form of friendly fire I personally would like to see is burning damage (from burnable stuff around you, that is kinda obvious) and explosion damage (since you can kill yourself with explosives, I don't see why you should be immune to the explosives of another player). I think we should not be able to directly target another player (for example, cannont set him on fire with a fire staff, even if it's burning damage).

 

Anyway, I sincerely hope that DST comes out as a coop only add-on, leaving the pleasure to modders to make it a PvP add-on if they so desire. In my opinion, Don't Starve in general is just not suited for PvP.

[jbeetle]

Things are so easily destroyed in Don't Starve, you can basically ruin hours of work with only 2 twigs and 2 grass. 

but that's irrelevant to pvp, for starters.

[NeoDeusMachina]

but that's irrelevant to pvp, for starters.

 

How so ? If your goal in PvP is to kill your opponent, you can as much aim at destroying his base, all his supplies and his food reserve: you'll kill him with attrition instead of with weapons. You could make his life miserable whenever he leaves his camp with a single torch. What will he do if you steal/burn all his summer or winter gear a day before the harsh season start? You would only do this on a PvP server, never on a coop server (what would be the point of ruining your own base anyway). In my opinion, it is totally relevant for PvP.

 

I do hope you haven't only focused on that part of my post, though! =)

[jbeetle]

How so ? If your goal in PvP is to kill your opponent, you can as much aim at destroying his base, all his supplies and his food reserve: you'll kill him with attrition instead of with weapons. You could make his life miserable whenever he leaves his camp with a single torch. What will he do if you steal/burn all his summer or winter gear a day before the harsh season start? You would only do this on a PvP server, never on a coop server (what would be the point of ruining your own base anyway). In my opinion, it is totally relevant for PvP.

 

I do hope you haven't only focused on that part of my post, though! =)

PvP isn't griefing because when you PvP you both consent to the terms of attacking/being attacked. Griefing is when someone is trying to just piss you off, usually by finding clever ways of bending the rules to screw with you. For instance, in Minecraft where someone goes to a server without pvp enabled and they lay TNT traps to kill you indirectly and blow up your house when you enter it.

As for hitting by mistake, I actually like the idea that it can happen. If it happens, you misclicked meaning you screwed up.

I don't condone griefing. I do condone PVP. Two different concepts with two different motivations. All in all, I've been happy with 90% of the decisions made by Klei towards Don't Starve, so I assume they won't let us down and will find something more creative than just hitting each other with sticks or a straight co-op version of  DS (cuz that's just as bad but for different reasons).

[NeoDeusMachina]

PvP isn't griefing because when you PvP you both consent to the terms of attacking/being attacked. Griefing is when someone is trying to just piss you off, usually by finding clever ways of bending the rules to screw with you. For instance, in Minecraft where someone goes to a server without pvp enabled and they lay TNT traps to kill you indirectly and blow up your house when you enter it.

As for hitting by mistake, I actually like the idea that it can happen. If it happens, you misclicked meaning you screwed up.

I don't condone griefing. I do condone PVP. Two different concepts with two different motivations. All in all, I've been happy with 90% of the decisions made by Klei towards Don't Starve, so I assume they won't let us down and will find something more creative than just hitting each other with sticks or a straight co-op version of  DS (cuz that's just as bad but for different reasons).

 

To be honest, I don't really care about griefing. All the points I have stated in my previous posts apply to PvP in Don't Starve in general, not on griefing. My main concern was that whatever form of PvP server we might come across, it will be very hard (if not too hard) to balance it out to actually make it worth it. People are already talking about changing some characters abilities, balancing for PvP, different PvP modes, but what will happen when a Woodie decides to chop down a forest with Lucy on day one and starts hunting other players ? Hello werebeaver! That's just another example, added to all the previous examples I have given, to express my opinion on all the things that would make PvP in Don't Starve a bad experience. I am sure there are some aspects of PvP in DST that could be fun for some players, I just fail to see them right now. As you said, perhaps Klei will come up with something really entertaining for PvP in DST! Only time will tell! =)

[J20hawkz]

All in all, I've been happy with 90% of the decisions made by Klei towards Don't Starve,

Taking a wild guess here, that chunky 10% belongs to Multiplayer right?

On a serious note. IF PvP does get added, what @Khrayfish is saying is absolutely spot on. PvP in Don't Starve, as things are currently with the combat system will basically be a tough game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.

But that's a big IF. Like @Spazmatic mentioned, we don't have anything to go off, everything is speculation. Yet it's best to speculate and make our thoughts heard so the developers can read and get a feel at the sort of game we want Don't Starve Together to end up as.

[Wilbur]

Agreed. The combat system would need to be improved/reimagined for it to be working fine aswell as fun.

 

The thing is - I don't see the point in bringing PvP to Don't Starve at all. I actually think PvE is all this game needs, and I really hope that Klei focus on making the best co-op multiplayer game they can. However, if they have plans of adding it, I would want them to make it into something special and interesting. Unique. Not just fight with spears etc, maybe using traps, interesting weapons that doesn't work like this: Hit, hit,hit (and eventually step back), hit, hit, hit... Because it would be utterly boring and OP for the player with better weapon.

 

I'm not saying that the combat system is bad right now. I actually think it's perfect for this game. But for PvP, it would be bad.

[jbeetle]

Taking a wild guess here, that chunky 10% belongs to Multiplayer right?

 

Actually, that chunky 10% is unspecific and I'd actually have to remember everything and whether I liked it at this point, but it wasn't multiplayer. I don't mind multiplayer, I was just telling people who asked for it that it wasn't going to happen (just like the devs were).

 

 

 

The thing is - I don't see the point in bringing PvP to Don't Starve at all. I actually think PvE is all this game needs, and I really hope that Klei focus on making the best co-op multiplayer game they can.

Replace PVP with multiplayer in those sentences, and boom, it's like I've heard that somewhere before. and as soon as it's the devs that say it, I won't keep badgering them to bring it into the game.

[J20hawkz]

@jbeetle good answer mate

[TheKingofSquirrels]

Because it´s fun?

 

It be fun to have fights between different clans, who have different set ups, weapons and armor.