Remove wendy from the beta

[CremeLover]

10 minutes ago, Debruh said:

I meant more of adding new stuff not stat upgrades.

Glass cannon would have bee cool. And the flower shroud was have also been prettu cool. Having a special interaction with a body armor, flower shroud or void rope would have been cool. But eh. Like you I kinda moved on, just concerned with what Klei is trying to implement now.

Cosmetic changes were cool as hell though 

Most other skill trees have one stat upgrade here and there, so for a minion character like Wendy, is kind of a no-brained to include to minion buffs in her tree.

I woudln't really want every skill to add something new, and turn Wendy into a swiss army knife, however, I believe if Klei were to make a poll for removing a few pipspook/potion/sisturn skills and turn those skills into buffing the Wraith's Wreath, I believe the poll results would be 80%> in favor of doing that.

And yes, the work the art team put into Wendy is truly a labor of love.

[Picklesaurus]

I'm tired and I just want to play with her skill tree on live branch at this point, I like some things there and the cosmetic part. I also don't feel confortable asking for a new and exclusive beta because, although it is not exactly the way I wanted it to be, they gave this skill tree the most attention between the three character, at some point I start feeling bad for the other two. Also, I would feel like some past skill trees would deserve the same amount of extra time and attention, like Wigfrid, I don't think Wigfrid skill tree is good, in fact I think I'm enjoying the current beta Wendy skill tree more than I do live Wigfrid skill tree.

[Chewabacca]

I think this would've been the way to go at the start of the beta, but by this point it's too late. I doubt that Wortox and Walter would benefit all that much from any extra attention because this update has already taken up so much of Klei's time that they're probably not going to want to wait all that long to release.

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Y0sH said:

do you really think that Wendy being removed from the Beta will stop her playerbase from absolutely flooding both forums?

correction: people from a specific community brigading the forums*

ngl I'd like if they just released wendy and maybe wortox as is and they just focused the rest of the beta on fixing walter so klei can actually listen to proper feedback for him

[Epireum]

3 hours ago, Debruh said:

Yea. But for some reason. Klei thinks Wendy players don't want the glass cannon idea. It's weitd tbh

I do think or hope they should at least give players the option for it. While I don't necessarily care for it one way or the other you seem to like the idea and I sure others do too. I think that's what the skill tree should give, options of playstyle.

[Mike23Ua]

42 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

correction: people from a specific community brigading the forums*

ngl I'd like if they just released wendy and maybe wortox as is and they just focused the rest of the beta on fixing walter so klei can actually listen to proper feedback for him

Here’s my problem with that- What is proper feedback? Because I’ve been on these forums long enough to know that even if Klei delays a beta by 6 months… there’s not nearly enough damn PC players in the beta who are using an Xbox/Playstation/Switch controller to properly give constructive feedback on how well the changes do (or in most cases don’t….) mesh well with controller play.

I too Wish Klei would just release the update for Wendy already out of Beta phase, I’m a Wendy main… and my one and only concern at this given moment: Is that they probably made her a complete pain in the backside to play as with a console controller.

I don’t like the Idea of needing to constantly click my analog sticks in and out to perform basic Abigail functions, and I DEFINITELY hate how cluttered full of on screen icons your Game HuD becomes while fiddling around with it.

I have the worst feeling once this update is actually released outside of beta: Klei will effectively ruin playing as Wendy for me.

Walter isn’t much better though…. His skill tree focuses so much on slingshot stuff but the slingshot itself is highly unfun with a console controller.

I honestly don’t think people are highlighting importance here, For Willow or Maxwell (two characters who have these Radial Menus of ability usage already) you only use these abilities situationally and very seldomly.

For Wendy…. Your practically Married to how well you can both control commands to Abigail, and movement of yourself.

It’s not going to be pretty, it’s not going to be fun, and just like the more Tedious version of the Crafting UI…. It’s not going to be an improvement for console players.

[ZeRoboButler]

I just hope this doesn't effect progress for other characters trees down the line, I just want to move on the next thing, but perhaps that isn't really a concern. Maybe this was very deliberate to take these characters and give them trees first before the others, I think it's fair to say they needed the attention.

(but man is this getting old, its enough to wear someone out...) 

[DVGMedia]

6 hours ago, Picklesaurus said:

I'm tired and I just want to play with her skill tree on live branch at this point, I like some things there and the cosmetic part. I also don't feel confortable asking for a new and exclusive beta

Wendy I feel is like 50% done alot of the stuff is pretty decent right now. but there is more that could be done so that more people are satisfied.  Its unfortunately one of the bigger neccesities because wendy is the character that has the biggest playerbase.  And we have waited for so long would it really be worth it to wait so long to get something thats haphazardly strewn together?
 

4 hours ago, Epireum said:

. I think that's what the skill tree should give, options of playstyle.

I agree for sure this is kleis abilty to show truly how creative they are.

5 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

I think this would've been the way to go at the start of the beta,

I mean There actually was a suggestion for that. at the start since wendys tree has had nearly everything changed from the beginning.
I think the fact that was the case for most of the upgrades I don't think the plan klei had was well met

They had ideas but didn't realize what it would do for the game.  But nothing is ever perfect on the first go.

[Dingle]

5 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

ngl I'd like if they just released wendy and maybe wortox as is and they just focused the rest of the beta on fixing walter so klei can actually listen to proper feedback for him

That was Klei's original plan over a month ago. That plan was changed, so here we are.

[DVGMedia]

Honestly thinking it would be good to cut down the amount of points on the lunar and shadow tree down to 2
having It be the potion and the unique affinity effect of gestalt and shadow.  While giving the unique shadow and gestalt form the planar protection points you have to spend on the first part of the tree.

That frees up 2 points
And can add in Elixir duration and Butterfly revival for 2 more points that could be shaven off.

Thats 4 skill points that can go to making unique interactions with wendy and abby.

1 could be Boosting abbys damage when wendy is lower health. ala glass cannon wendy.

The shroud can come back Some people had the idea of making it so that abby links with wendy so that they are teathered together more tightly. if she gets out of range of wendy she dissolves and spawns back ontop of wendy. (this can be good for gestalt so that way gestalt is Not constantly getting out of position )

More potions? since wendy is supposed to do ectoherbology  there could be a few new potions she could buy into.

Astral projection. Allows abby  to have a chance to have an attack blocked without taking damage.
on wreath on consumption  the player dies without losing their inventory and will be revived after 10 seconds Being able to use the powers a ghost offers (could be good synergy with the vengful ghost) If wendy does this abby does not despawn and delevel

those are just some ideas that could make her more unique with what  currently exists with the tree
 

[Thieverpedia]

This is something I can agree on, as Wortox and Walter don't deserve to be held up like this, yet I can't help but feel like if that happens and Wendy's skill tree is proposed again, it'll be another case of players never being satisfied. For one reason or another, she's one of the more popular characters, so it's going to be difficult to please everyone. Still, it's more time to plan. Personally, I think there's entirely too much focus on Abigail and not enough on Wendy, not to mention the player tag on Abigail. A friend had the fantastic idea a while ago to have the Shadow side focus more on Wendy and the Lunar side focus more on Abigail. Perhaps that may be a better thing to base the skill tree on. For now, the entire thing seems a bit like perk soup.

[Epireum]

3 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Honestly thinking it would be good to cut down the amount of points on the lunar and shadow tree down to 2
having It be the potion and the unique affinity effect of gestalt and shadow.  

This might be a bit presumptuous of me, but I too was thinking of an idea earlier of making the lunar and shadow tree down to 2 while having the Gestalt and Shadow versions be available pre-rifts. I only am thinking of this because I do remember reading someone making a point saying that, you don't get these two options until after Celestial Champion but by that point, you probably no longer need it as you've developed a way to deal with your world without it. You'd have to cap this somehow, such as requiring lvl3's from other tiers to force a player to not get it until later on, but your idea of a potion is simpler and streamlined. It could be the potion only gives you the forms for very short amounts of time, very short, and after you activate the pre-rifts one, you can get the form in a more permanent way via the potions for that chosen branch.

3 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

More potions? since wendy is supposed to do ectoherbology  there could be a few new potions she could buy into.

I also wrote in my topic thoughts post about a "Spectral" potion that allows you to go to become intangible, ending early if you attack or interact with something. This potion idea would also work in tandem with several other ideas I had to make it more useful. I don't know if I should elaborate here, as it's a bit long and I had more than just this as a potion idea.

[Catapult 2.0]

If it's technically possible, do it, and if it's not technically possible, overcome the technology！

如果技术上可行的话，请就这么做，如果技术上不可行的话，请克服一下技术！

[Edible Coal]

2 hours ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

If it's technically possible, do it, and if it's not technically possible, overcome the technology！

如果技术上可行的话，请就这么做，如果技术上不可行的话，请克服一下技术！

i really cant imagine they would do dramatic changes again

技能树大概已经固定了

[DVGMedia]

6 hours ago, Thieverpedia said:

This is something I can agree on,

The wendy tree is mostly done but there are 5 skills that are basically items in the game or they would not get used because of the nature of wendys gameplay.

Thats 5 skills that could be made into something more interesting.  I already made a post of my suggestions 
Which would be bringing back refresh abby as a skill point. Where abby deals more damage based on wendys health. Tie this to be the last perk of team spirit so need to spend 4 points to get it.

Flower shroud can return but with a different effect. Im saying it becomes a hard tether between wendy and abby  where if abby gets out of range she instantly respawns on wendy. to continually protect her. Would be great for gestalt abby since she constantly gets out of position thanks to her attack.

some new simple potions like giving abby a chance to fully block an attack. While giving new toy for wendies who choose the wreath

The idea i had was it was a potion that made the player die while drinking it player doesn't drop inventory.  or have any of the negative effects of death. and they stay as a ghost for 10 seconds.  This could be used for map traversal covering and checking the oceans just slightly.  or even using vengful spirit without needing to actually die.

 

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Would be great for gestalt abby since she constantly gets out of position thanks to her attack.

This would be pretty good, but I personally think that we should fix the issue of Gestalt Abi by adjust herself, but not by adding another new thing...

[DVGMedia]

8 minutes ago, Steorra said:

This would be pretty good, but I personally think that we should fix the issue of Gestalt Abi by adjust herself, but not by adding another new thing...

yeah she does need it herself. but having it would be more bonus.  cause the way i would see it is that every time gabby would attack she would get reset back on top of wendy.
She would actually kind of act exactly like the celestial crown  with the shroud equipped except with her standard attack cooldown

So that would make it so wendy basically gets a automatic range attack with gabby as she is fighting and kiting.
The same would work with regular abby however she would just be on top of wendy the whole time. giving her that protection.

[aidankocherhans]

4 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

The wendy tree is mostly done but there are 5 skills that are basically items in the game or they would not get used because of the nature of wendys gameplay.

Thats 5 skills that could be made into something more interesting.

I mean, there are other characters with 5+ skill points that are somewhat useless (Wilson for example) so I'm not sure that's the best reason for dramatically delaying the initial release for this one character, unless we're just blatantly giving her special privilege

[DaDa_waw]

4 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

I mean, there are other characters with 5+ skill points that are somewhat useless (Wilson for example) so I'm not sure that's the best reason for dramatically delaying the initial release for this one character, unless we're just blatantly giving her special privilege

I don't understand why you need to lower your demand standards in order to take care of the parts of KLei's work that are not doing well enough. May I ask if you can tell me this motivation?

[aidankocherhans]

4 minutes ago, DaDa_waw said:

I don't understand why you need to lower your demand standards in order to take care of the parts of KLei's work that are not doing well enough. May I ask if you can tell me this motivation?

I mean, Wendy shouldn't get a disproportionately large amount of dev time and attention compared to other characters, which removing her from the beta would do to a dramatic degree. People already love wendy and she's already good in the areas of the game she's supposed to be, she doesn't need an exceptional tree for people to continue using and loving her. If anyone in this beta should get special treatment it's Walter, he's the least popular character and is on the low end of the power spectrum.

[DVGMedia]

12 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

I mean, there are other characters with 5+ skill points that are somewhat useless (Wilson for example) so I'm not sure that's the best reason for dramatically delaying the initial release for this one character, unless we're just blatantly giving her special privilege

thing is though those skills really are not useless.  They still do provide something.
there are a few skills on wendys tree that are only there because they are thematic.

Like how gravestone revive is basically just a meat effigy 

even though the torch tree sucks on wilson. it still does make it better because a torch can serve different purposes than say a lantern can.
Despite a lantern being a better item.

Some people even said woodies lumberjack perks of harvesting quicker or tree feller were considered filler.
Yet they actually tie directly with his kit of being a resource character.   So they serve a purpose other than just being a reskin of other items.

3 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

I mean, Wendy shouldn't get a disproportionately large amount of dev time and attention compared to other characters, which removing her from the beta would do to a dramatic degree. People already love wendy and she's already good in the areas of the game she's supposed to be, she doesn't need an exceptional tree for people to continue using and loving her. If anyone in this beta should get special treatment it's Walter, he's the least popular character and is on the low end of the power spectrum.

Remvoing wendy from the beta would give her more time to be developed. and there is reason she does need more time because she is a product people enjoy the most.

Frankly people who didn't like walter  wanted purely just slingshot upgrades and the majority would be happy with that.
But the fact he is getting more care with wobby and scout perks. the perks that players actually use walter for shows the love he is receiving

There is actually alot more love and care being put into walters tree than wendys

[cyjs]

22 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

I mean, Wendy shouldn't get a disproportionately large amount of dev time and attention compared to other characters, 

There is no basis for your words. Clay said the internal team is divided into three groups. Wendy doesn't get more development space

[aidankocherhans]

5 minutes ago, cyjs said:

There is no basis for your words. Clay said the internal team is divided into three groups. Wendy doesn't get more development space

If they delay her tree indefinitely while releasing the others (as dvg is suggesting), she will get more dev time. The teams that work on skill trees surely work on other parts of the game when the tree is completed.

[cyjs]

3 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

If they delay her tree indefinitely while releasing the others (as dvg is suggesting), she will get more dev time. The teams that work on skill trees surely work on other parts of the game when the tree is completed.

Postponing the update is the right choice in my opinion. If you think this is unfair, then you should ask the designers of Wendy's skill tree why, two months in, it's still so bad.

[Cassielu]

Oh, DVG, you're a genius. I've always had the same thoughts, but my poor stupid brain can't put them down in such precise language.