Remove wendy from the beta

[DVGMedia]

Honestly i liked alot of things within the beta but it has caused so much discourse and hate.

I feel like because of the popularity of wendy as a character she has caused so much of an uproar and its causing alot of people who want to see walter and wortox get the lime light get screwed over. yet its all wendy players that are pointing out how badly designed the skill tree really is.
There are some things i think that are good and have set perfectly now however it still feels like a tree thats only 50 percent done.

As another post had mentioned literally most of the tree goes to elixers Rather than the main part  of the character that being abigail.

Its exactly the same way as walters tree being nothing but slingshot. and nothing really worth while for woby or his scouting.

And so frankly I feel that Wendy should not be included in the release of the beta and continue to be worked on. So that walter and wortox get their attention.
 

 

[Steorra]

I agree.

And I leave the problems to Wortox and Walter themselves. I agree that just let Wendy quit first. Then none of my business here.

[DaDa_waw]

Wortox and Walter have been waiting long enough, especially Wortox. My friends are eager to play Wortox before the Chinese New Year, and not even one person hopes Wendy will come to the official server.
Let Wortox come earlier!

[Cassielu]

Why I said almost the same as CremeLover two months ago but nobody attention to me.

Please, let it happen. let other two skilltrees be completed to a usable state first, and not be encumbered by Wendy's problems.

[DaDa_waw]

4 minutes ago, Well-met said:

pushing the problem away isn't going to fix anything, it'll just build up ire.

The real problem is Wendy is asia's waifu mascot which is why she draws in so much weird attention

There are bad guys trying to push KLei's problem towards the proposers of Wendy's skill tree, isolating them so that we can see who is trying to do evil

[Debruh]

19 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

another post had mentioned literally most of the tree goes to elixers Rather than the main part  of the character that being abigail.

Its exactly the same way as walters tree being nothing but slingshot. and nothing really worth while for woby or his scouting

I kinda ageee with this Though, while Walter feels like some of his skills are seperate for no reason (some of them should be one skill in my opinion). Wendy doesn't feel the same way, more like some of them should just be removed

Elixirs || and ||| for example, the first one causes a lot of problems by just making Abby's death not a problem. The latter while it does have nice uses, and isn't as bad as people say that it is, doesn't feel like it should even exist

There isn't much you can do with Abby to be honest

[Dingle]

Too late.

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, Well-met said:

pushing the problem away isn't going to fix anything, it'll just build up ire.

The real problem is Wendy is asia's waifu mascot which is why she draws in so much weird attention

No, you have ignored other factors.

The economy downturn is happening for the whole world. It causes many depression. Wendy is a character for those who suffering depression. That's why Wendy becomes popular for the whole world.

Otherwise, if you want to change this fact to prevent Wendy from being popular, you have to makes most people of the world get out of depression first. Or, to completely rework Wendy's storyline and quotes for get her rid of a typical depression aesthetic.

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, Well-met said:

pushing the problem away isn't going to fix anything, it'll just build up ire.

The real problem is Wendy is asia's waifu mascot which is why she draws in so much weird attention

It will give more time to think about things. what would actually be the best way to apporach the character.
Instead of just getting something that was haphazardly put together.
The only reason wendys refresh worked out was because she was the only character being worked on at the time.
And even still then klei had to completely reimagine what they wanted to do for her because it went against the public.
Its safe to say the wendy appreciaction is just too powerful
 

[Debruh]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Too late.

Yea. This is also the main problem. A lot of stuff was already added. And it's not bad stuff. There's also not much to be done with Abby, and the skill tree did deal with Wendy's problems as well as add new mechanics. So I do think it's good

[DVGMedia]

8 minutes ago, Debruh said:

There isn't much you can do with Abby to be honest

There can be at least a plan in place.
Ever since the beginning  Everything in wendys tree has changed. So there really has been no good amount of time to flesh things out of what works whats good and what should be removed.

I feel shadow is complete team skill is complete.
lunar needs a bit of tweaking but thats done.

And well everything else is just potions that basically do the same thing that regular items do. There really is no cohesiveness there

LIke you said there really just needs to be skills put on the chopping block To see how they really affect gameplay.

 

[Hollow soul 3]

It's taken so much attention away from Walter and Wortox. Really disappointing. Hard not to blame the Wendy players, it's definitely effected my opinion on who to ban from the world when lag gets bad a few times.

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, Debruh said:

So I do think it's good

Guess the problem was already get rid of "if majority think it's good or not / if we are majority or minority".

It's more like become that if Klei would think their decision is good or not. And this problem might be rooted from very early but not for only current beta.

6 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

LIke you said there really just needs to be skills put on the chopping block To see how they really affect gameplay.

I hope this would work to those weird skills as well. At least I may have a look for their vivid appearance.

[aidankocherhans]

53 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

And so frankly I feel that Wendy should not be included in the release of the beta and continue to be worked on. So that walter and wortox get their attention.

I think all that'll do is make Wendy discussion continue to drown out the discussion for every update until they release her tree. There's little Walter and wortox discussion at the moment because nothing new has been released this month.

[Debruh]

I am kinda disappointed that stuff like the flower shroud was completely abandoned.

Considering Wendy's quotes for the void rope, something could have happened with it. As well as  gestalt Abby just being.. not only bad, but weird

Sisturn ||| already makes up for Abby's survivability against bosses. Why is gestalt Abby the same thing? One of them should be changed. And I think alignments in general should be useful for all skill levels, now gestalt is only for players who are good enough to have beaten cc but are still new to Wendy. But if they beat cc they'll probably be able to get used to Abby. So I do think your idea about ab Abby boosting defensiveness is good, even if I do disagree with Abby just giving an effect in an area, I think it should involve more interaction with Abby.

I also am kinda sad that the glass cannon summoner thing wasn't visited again.

Though I do accept the fact that Klei do have their own vision of the character, even if I think there's missed opportunities. And I doubt said stuff would be added even if the tree is pushed back. It's not like the current tree is bad, prettu good actually imo

19 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

feel shadow is complete team skill is complete.
lunar needs a bit of tweaking but thats done

I disagree. Cursed Vexation needs changes in my opinion. I really disagree with changing shadow Abby to just be 25+ planar damage. Its interaction with nightshade was really good and made nightshade good even post rifts.

Yea, gestalt AI needs tweaking. Team spirit haunt rng hasn't been implemented for some reason.

Just now, aidankocherhans said:

I think all that'll do is make Wendy discussion continue to drown out the discussion for every update until they release her tree. There's little Walter and wortox discussion at the moment because nothing new has been released this month.

Exactly 

[DVGMedia]

12 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

I think all that'll do is make Wendy discussion continue to drown out the discussion for every update until they release her tree. There's little Walter and wortox discussion at the moment because nothing new has been released this month.

well no since it won't be part of the beta. It will let  the team go back into the rooms to develop it again and then come back with a new product. Thats what testing is for. Not every first time introduction is going to be a banger. And i feel like Wendy is one that should go back into the drawing room floor.
Wendy should get her own tree update by herself with no others. She just has that much of a following to warrent it.

Removing wendy would completely allow people full focus to give walter and wortox. since then every wendy discussion would be off topic.

11 minutes ago, Debruh said:

I am kinda disappointed that stuff like the flower shroud was completely abandoned.

Considering Wendy's quotes for the void rope, something could have happened with it. As well as  gestalt Abby just being.. not only bad, but weird

Sisturn ||| already makes up for Abby's survivability against bosses. Why is gestalt Abby the same thing? One of them should be changed. And I think alignments in general should be useful for all skill levels, now gestalt is only for players who are good enough to have beaten cc but are still new to Wendy. But if they beat cc they'll probably be able to get used to Abby. So I do think your idea about ab Abby boosting defensiveness is good, even if I do disagree with Abby just giving an effect in an area, I think it should involve more interaction with Abby.

I also am kinda sad that the glass cannon summoner thing wasn't visited again.

 

See there are a few more concepts that could really be approached with more creativity instead of having 3 branches that go towards boosting elixers and 2 branches that boost surviavablity.

And it would actually give essence of choice in the skill tree. I think like bringing back the stronger abby lower health wendy would totatally fit in the shadow side. thematically as a skill point.
 

[OMEGASCRUFF]

28 minutes ago, Debruh said:

I am kinda disappointed that stuff like the flower shroud was completely abandoned.

THANK YOU.

[Debruh]

10 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

See there are a few more concepts that could really be approached with more instead of having 3 branches that go towards boosting elixers and 2 branches that boost surviavablity.

And it would actually give essence of choice in the skill tree. I think like bringing back the stronger abby lower health wendy would totatally fit in the shadow side. thematically as a skill point.

Klei has kinda stated they don't think that people want a glass cannon playstyle for Wendy so I don't think it would be revisted.

I think the pipspook line and elixir line coexisting is fine.

One makes production easier, the other boosts elixirs themselves on paper. The last elixir one tiptoes on the pipspook line but ig

The mourning glory line is probably made for the complaint that went around in the early days of the beta that the whole skill tree. Which is a stupid complaint in my opinion but the Wraith's Wreath is pretty good.

People also got angry at the skill tree for improving Abby's crowd control, referring to scare command, and wanted the tree to focus on boss killing. Which is why suggestions for planar entity tag and player tag drowned out lvl 4 suggestions

I highly doubt that they would change gestalt Abby too.

But I do doubt much would change even of Klei postpones Wendy. This does seem to be the vision Klei wants Wendy to go in. And with how... 'good' suggestions can get idk if this will do any good

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Klei has kinda stated they don't think that people want a glass cannon playstyle for Wendy so I don't think it would be revisted

Thats kind of why it benefits from being on the skill tree though.
It allows players to build the character how they wish to go.

Like people hate wigfrid as a bard character with beefalo because she does not get any benefit from beefalos.

But that in itself created a completely new method of playing.

For wigfrid aswell people hate the rond because why use rond when i have more damage with other things or i could just dodge using the spear.

the main thing is that it creates a different way to play

And thats always been what skill trees are about. Buffing the baseline of the character while giving new ways to play.
 

[Debruh]

1 minute ago, DVGMedia said:

Thats kind of why it benefits from being on the skill tree though.
It allows players to build the character how they wish to go.

Like people hate wigfrid as a bard character with beefalo because she does not get any benefit from beefalos.

But that in itself created a completely new method of playing.

For wigfrid aswell people hate the rond because why use rond when i have more damage with other things or i could just dodge using the spear.

the main thing is that it creates a different way to play

And thats always been what skill trees are about. Buffing the baseline of the character while giving new ways to play.
 

Yea. But for some reason. Klei thinks Wendy players don't want the glass cannon idea. It's weitd tbh

[DVGMedia]

7 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Yea. But for some reason. Klei thinks Wendy players don't want the glass cannon idea. It's weitd tbh

it really is but can kind of imagine it working  just cause of the logic of it and the difference of what people find value in.

like the wigfrid tree a bit.  got like the baseline stuff in the middle.  those could be the potions pipspooks graves and team spirit

while the tree offers more unique gameplay changes through wreath flowershroud or abby gaining buffs based on wendy and alignments. alot of these bonus things can just be 1 or 2 skill points to really make this a diverse tree. This would probably be a much healthier tree Since it does what the player wants  Can cut some things and fit in maybe the automation of glories.  Adding in glass cannon abby making abby more survivable in general and or bosses. But that would be tail end stuff meaning the player would have to go fully invested into that.

And using the logic most people say of if you don't want it don't take it.  It would probably work alot better for wendy

[CremeLover]

But what about the animated short that contains all 3 of them? Is probably done since last year!

1 hour ago, Debruh said:

There isn't much you can do with Abby to be honest

3 skills: increase Abigail's regen by 0.5, increase by another 0.5, last skill makes Abigail sacrifice herself if Wendy takes a lethal hit with 1 day cooldown.

3 skills: increase Abigail's speed by 10%, to 25%, to 50%

1 craft with mourning glory, ecto swap, allows wendy and abigail to swap places, would be great since now you can position Abigail, consumes 10% durability per use.

1 skill, when Wendy falls below certain health threshold, Abigail draws all aggro to herself, 1 minute cooldown.

3 skills: 5% dmg reduction, to 15% damage reduction, to 50% when the attack received is higher than 100HP

some skill to increase light radious

last sisturn skill to give her lvl 4

There's also the shroud that got removed, but was much more interesting that the current mourning glory hat she has.

These are not very well though out ideas, just stuff random stuff I just came up with that's probably umbalanced, but my point is, there are plenty of small buffs or interesting things you can do with Abigail without making her broken, yet still giving her meaninful buffs that people would feel in her day to day gameplay.

We could definitely reach some better and fresh ideas if we put ours mind to it that would make Wendy more engaging to play without making her broken or afk simulator, so I believe there's plenty you can do with her.

Heck, even

23 minutes ago, Debruh said:

 the glass cannon idea.

As long as you can keep playing Wendy the normal way and it doesn't delete how she plays, it would go a long way to spice up her gameplay

 

 

Overall, in post thread quoted by DVGMedia, I just said my piece. I don't like the current direction of the skill tree, because most of it is related to mourning glory and potions, which are the least interesting aspect of Wendy to me, and almost every Abigail non-team spirit related skills requires constant maintenance and busywork. But also, the last update was mostly cosmetic changes, and a bandaid to the bandaid that is sisturn III. So I just assumed Klei was mostly done with the skill trees, and is probably already working on the next update while doing the finishing touches on this one and moving on, so I decided to move on as well. Sorry to the Wortox, and specially the Walter players, your sacrifice was in vain and not worth it.

[Debruh]

2 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

But what about the animated short that contains all 3 of them? Is probably done since last year!

3 skills: increase Abigail's regen by 0.5, increase by another 0.5, last skill makes Abigail sacrifice herself if Wendy takes a lethal hit with 1 day cooldown.

3 skills: increase Abigail's speed by 10%, to 25%, to 50%

1 craft with mourning glory, ecto swap, allows wendy and abigail to swap places, would be great since now you can position Abigail, consumes 10% durability per use.

1 skill, when Wendy falls below certain health threshold, Abigail draws all aggro to herself, 1 minute cooldown.

3 skills: 5% dmg reduction, to 15% damage reduction, to 50% when the attack received is higher than 100HP

some skill to increase light radious

last sisturn skill to give her lvl 4

There's also the shroud that got removed, but was much more interesting that the current mourning glory hat she has.

These are not very well though out ideas, just stuff random stuff I just came up with that's probably umbalanced, but my point is, there are plenty of small buffs or interesting things you can do with Abigail without making her broken, yet still giving her meaninful buffs that people would feel in her day to day gameplay.

We could definitely reach some better and fresh ideas if we put ours mind to it that would make Wendy more engaging to play without making her broken or afk simulator, so I believe there's plenty you can do with her.

Heck, even

As long as you can keep playing Wendy the normal way and it doesn't delete how she plays, it would go a long way to spice up her gameplay

 

 

Overall, in post thread quoted by DVGMedia, I just said my piece. I don't like the current direction of the skill tree, because most of it is related to mourning glory and potions, which are the least interesting aspect of Wendy to me, and almost every Abigail non-team spirit related skills requires constant maintenance and busywork. But also, the last update was mostly cosmetic changes, and a bandaid to the bandaid that is sisturn III. So I just assumed Klei was mostly done with the skill trees, and is probably already working on the next update while doing the finishing touches on this one and moving on, so I decided to move on as well. Sorry to the Wortox, and specially the Walter players, your sacrifice was in vain and not worth it.

I meant more of adding new stuff not stat upgrades.

Glass cannon would have bee cool. And the flower shroud was have also been prettu cool. Having a special interaction with a body armor, flower shroud or void rope would have been cool. But eh. Like you I kinda moved on, just concerned with what Klei is trying to implement now.

Cosmetic changes were cool as hell though 

[Y0sH]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

Removing wendy would completely allow people full focus to give walter and wortox. since then every wendy discussion would be off topic.

You Sweet Summer Child, do you really think that Wendy being removed from the Beta will stop her playerbase from absolutely flooding both forums? (General and Beta) Truth be told she should have NEVER been grouped with any survivor from the start and done completely alone in a Beta. I think Klei underestimated just how vocal and visceral Wendy's playerbase truly is against even the most minute changes or adjustments to the character and now they unfortunately have to just persevere through this update to completion. If they want peace they have to COMPLETE  this tree, take stance/direction and remain firm.

[congrongfuguo]

47 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Thats kind of why it benefits from being on the skill tree though.
It allows players to build the character how they wish to go.

Like people hate wigfrid as a bard character with beefalo because she does not get any benefit from beefalos.

But that in itself created a completely new method of playing.

For wigfrid aswell people hate the rond because why use rond when i have more damage with other things or i could just dodge using the spear.

the main thing is that it creates a different way to play

And thats always been what skill trees are about. Buffing the baseline of the character while giving new ways to play.
 

I completely agree with your statement. We can completely solve the current situation where some people think Wendy is strong and others think Wendy is weak through this approach. This is exactly the effect that skill trees can achieve