Remove wendy from the beta

[asdsaax]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

Like how gravestone revive is basically just a meat effigy 

I would like to share a take on gravestone revive... but what if mourning glory skill branch is catering to beginner players among which Wendy is very popular?
that are known for afking near campfire, farming basic resources and never going into caves?

Unlike meat effigy, altars are safer, spammable and don't require venturing into the dark
so maybe that branch is like a different way to play Wendy
isn't efficient like Wig's rond but offers supportive/safer playstyle for beginners and newbie Wendies are known for base moming for majority of time (and somehow still dying)

I used to dislike twintailed hearts on Wortox because I'm not a fan of diluting revives in the game, Wortox is supposed to prevent death with his potent healing and of course it would give room for something cooler but yet there are people that need tools which help with the very basics of the game

but I wouldn't like to deny your preferences or ideas for a better perk by that opinion, because as I have mentioned before, revives are pretty diluted and your dislike for it is understandable

[aidankocherhans]

6 minutes ago, asdsaax said:

I would like to share a take on gravestone revive... but what if mourning glory skill branch is catering to beginner players among which Wendy is very popular?
that are known for afking near campfire, farming basic resources and never going into caves?

Unlike meat effigy, altars are safer, spammable and don't require venturing into the dark
so maybe that branch is like a different way to play Wendy
isn't efficient like Wig's rond but offers supportive/safer playstyle for beginners and newbie Wendies are known for base moming for majority of time (and somehow still dying)

I used to dislike twintailed hearts on Wortox because I'm not a fan of diluting revives in the game, Wortox is supposed to prevent death with his potent healing and of course it would give room for something cooler but yet there are people that need tools which help with the very basics of the game

but I wouldn't like to deny your preferences or ideas for a better perk by that opinion, because as I have mentioned before, revives are pretty diluted and your dislike for it is understandable

My non-gamer sister started playing Wendy with me recently and she's died a bunch of times, vengeful spirit would be great for her to have, even though most experienced players won't use it

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

thing is though those skills really are not useless.  They still do provide something.
there are a few skills on wendys tree that are only there because they are thematic.

Like how gravestone revive is basically just a meat effigy 

even though the torch tree sucks on wilson. it still does make it better because a torch can serve different purposes than say a lantern can.
Despite a lantern being a better item.

Some people even said woodies lumberjack perks of harvesting quicker or tree feller were considered filler.
Yet they actually tie directly with his kit of being a resource character.   So they serve a purpose other than just being a reskin of other items.

There's purpose in it being a reskinned meat effigy though in that it's easier for newer players to access than it making it better than the meat effigy much like how a torch is easier to access than a lantern.

 

2 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

There is actually alot more love and care being put into walters tree than wendys

Looking at every aspect of Wendy's trees from skill changes to animations to her skill tree's layout and design to her having separate patch notes away from Walter and Wortox to her taking up most of the livestream when they were talking about their abilities makes this statement absolutely baffling. Heck just the fact his skill tree has been unfinished for 2 months makes this an insane take.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, asdsaax said:

I would like to share a take on gravestone revive... but what if mourning glory skill branch is catering to beginner players among which Wendy is very popular?
that are known for afking near campfire, farming basic resources and never going into caves?

Unlike meat effigy, altars are safer, spammable and don't require venturing into the dark
so maybe that branch is like a different way to play Wendy
isn't efficient like Wig's rond but offers supportive/safer playstyle for beginners and newbie Wendies are known for base moming for majority of time (and somehow still dying)

I used to dislike twintailed hearts on Wortox because I'm not a fan of diluting revives in the game, Wortox is supposed to prevent death with his potent healing and of course it would give room for something cooler but yet there are people that need tools which help with the very basics of the game

but I wouldn't like to deny your preferences or ideas for a better perk by that opinion, because as I have mentioned before, revives are pretty diluted and your dislike for it is understandable

So uh I have beaten both DS & DST (getting 100% achievements in both) and I did so without even knowing meat effigy’s exist.

Of course: I play a lot of difficult games that don’t heavily rely on revival items so I kinda went into the series with a Yolo Motto.. but even now that I KNOW about Live Giving Amulets and Meat Effigy’s I still rarely if ever actually use them.

That said: when Wanda came out I abused the heck out of the Second Chance clock by literally just rewinding everyone who dies deaths back to before they died and I had an absolute blast doing this, it was cheap almost free revival.. no need to get materials for Meat Effigy, no additional health lost from telltale hearts.. Wanda was/still is just simply Broken OP.

Wendy having a cheaper method of reviving than Meat Effigy will not ever be on par with Wanda free infinity server revives, it’s just something that lets less skilled players not have to worry about gathering resources to craft and set up effigy’s.

Some people for example: have trouble building a Prestihatitator (especially if they are newbies..) so the easier, less punishing and less confusing it is to revive for them: the better.

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Looking at every aspect of Wendy's trees from skill changes to animations to her skill tree's layout and design to her having separate patch notes away from Walter and Wortox to her taking up most of the livestream when they were talking about their abilities makes this statement absolutely baffling. Heck just the fact his skill tree has been unfinished for 2 months makes this an insane take.

What is ment by love is that they understand more what those characters actually need
KLei has never really been good at understanding what wendy needs They have only ever shown off concepts they would like to pull off.

And well technicaly that should be the point of the skill tree
however now its just going to be the affinities that make up the bulk of the difference while everything is just supporting potions.

3 hours ago, asdsaax said:

but I wouldn't like to deny your preferences or ideas for a better perk by that opinion, because as I have mentioned before, revives are pretty diluted and your dislike for it is understandable

its mostly because wendy was always a chraracter that was good at making revives of all kinds. She is the best at making meat effigies she is the best at making amulets and the best at making hearts.  Maybe thats the reason they went that way.
 

[Mysterious box]

43 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

What is ment by love is that they understand more what those characters actually need
KLei has never really been good at understanding what wendy needs They have only ever shown off concepts they would like to pull off.

And well technicaly that should be the point of the skill tree
however now its just going to be the affinities that make up the bulk of the difference while everything is just supporting potions.

This isn't really true either as there was a big disagreement on what Walter should be much like Wendy that wasn't just the devs not understanding the character and I don't think we should dictate what a character should be to the devs if they don't want to make it as we want that's not them not understanding that's them sticking with their intention popular or not. Besides they may change their minds but that's their choice.

[Epireum]

12 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

The idea i had was it was a potion that made the player die while drinking it player doesn't drop inventory.  or have any of the negative effects of death. and they stay as a ghost for 10 seconds.  This could be used for map traversal covering and checking the oceans just slightly.  or even using vengful spirit without needing to actually die.

I had a similar idea, several, but the one I'm thinking of mostly is I thought about revamping Vengeful Ghost. Instead of how it is now, upon death, you'd get maybe 3-10 seconds (something fair) where you are untargetable and cannot use any skills, attacks etc., but you can move stuff around your inventory and walk around. This way, you can die somewhere safer where monsters cannot eat your food or rocks or burn your items, and is a safer place to go back to to get your stuff. I did this because I remember reading the devs saying this skill was for new players and I think this might benefit them more in the beginning and even be appealing to more season players.

Your idea is more for exploration and utility, which would work more with my Spectral Potion intangibility idea but I was just reminded of it. It's good to know that people are thinking up similar ideas individually, I feel.

You also said you had a thread with all yoir ideas. If it's not too much, could you link it? I'm in the process of reading a few others and I love to add yours onto my list.

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

This isn't really true either as there was a big disagreement on what Walter should be much like Wendy that wasn't just the devs not understanding the character and I don't think we should dictate what a character should be to the devs if they don't want to make it as we want that's not them not understanding that's them sticking with their intention popular or not. Besides they may change their minds but that's their choice.

and thats kind of why all of this is up in the air.
Can speculate and give new ideas but ultimately what they decide to do really is up to them.
But if concerns are not voiced then everything gets unheard. The only hope is that what is said is considered

 

[Mysterious box]

38 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

It is unfounded to claim that Wendy struggles to craft a meat effigy. She can effortlessly kill hordes of shadow splumonkeys to gather beard hair. For true beginners, the Florid Postern remains the optimal resurrection method, while skilled players value the Life-Giving Amulet most highly. The meat effigy itself is an outdated relic inherited from DS, and lazy designers merely slapped a new appearance on it to half-heartedly fill out the skill tree.

Postern doesn't resurrect in a survival server which is the server most new players end up on due to it being the default mode so once again the optimal resurrection method for new Wendy players would be her grave and I feel for the developers for being disrespected so much by the people they listen to but are never satisfied.

[The Starver]

17 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Some people for example: have trouble building a Prestihatitator (especially if they are newbies..)

Me. I would really appreciate free (or cheap) revives.

[Mysterious box]

17 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

A DST game designer who doesn't play DST at all doesn't deserve the respect of DST players. As a designer, he doesn't know how to paddle a boat in DST, he doesn't know the damage value of the dark sword, and he doesn't realize that summoning AFW on the ground using the console is impossible. Moreover, he hasn't listened to our opinions at all, but has deliberately gone against the majority's views.

He doesn't listen? He's gone above and beyond to change and include many ideas proposed for Wendy throughout this beta the only reason you guys are upset is because he didn't show absolute submission it's very clear the only thing you guys will be satisfied with is when your relationship looks like this:

 

It's not about being reasonable it never was nothing less will be enough.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

55 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel for the developers for being disrespected so much by the people they listen to but are never satisfied.

Why? It's a business decision to have a public beta test instead of hiring and paying the right people for the job. From my perspective, this is their just desserts.

This is the price you pay, instead of a salary. It's a pretty good deal, honestly.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Why? It's a business decision to have a public beta test instead of hiring and paying the right people for the job. From my perspective, this is their just desserts.

This is the price you pay, instead of a salary. It's a pretty good deal, honestly.

Whose exactly do you believe each individual employee of Klei had a part in that decision? 

[OMEGASCRUFF]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Whose exactly do you believe each individual employee of Klei had a part in that decision? 

Do you want to try that again?

[Debruh]

3 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Do you want to try that again?

 

7 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Why? It's a business decision to have a public beta test instead of hiring and paying the right people for the job. From my perspective, this is their just desserts.

This is the price you pay, instead of a salary. It's a pretty good deal, honestly.

I don't think Jason specifically was like 'Hey guys, how about we make an open beta instead of hiring actual testers?'

And he's the one getting the most slop flinged at him.

Ignore this comment if I'm wrong or something 

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

Alright, let's take a look at how he "goes above and beyond to change," shall we?

Thanks for your meme; it's particularly fitting to gift to our arrogant game developer, who disdainfully tells the megabasers that dislike his designs, "You can just turn it off."

Once more showing how fitting the meme is despite all the changes made via feedback because Every Demand wasn't met they're simply arrogant and never listen. I get it they simply didn't jump high enough for you guys in these past 2 months.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

1 hour ago, Debruh said:

 

I don't think Jason specifically was like 'Hey guys, how about we make an open beta instead of hiring actual testers?'

And he's the one getting the most slop flinged at him.

Ignore this comment if I'm wrong or something 

I've seen fingers pointed at him, and fingers pointed at Klei as a whole. Usually the latter, though my relationship with Wendy threads is acquaintances, at best. But I'm not really sure who directly receives blame by us matters. We are wrong, absolutely, if we think the fault lies with one dude. It's a good thing that kind of naivety is pretty easy to ignore.

But this was the result of years of business decisions made by different people. What matters to me is that customers are visibly discontent with the way this update has been handled, and that it gives the people with the power to actually make these decisions a reason to pivot. This information will move upwards, even if the wrong customer-facing employee is taking the blame. It will move upwards and receive action quicker if the bottom line is negatively affected. They have a better idea of what's going on than we do.

At the end of the day, it is the role of anyone who interfaces with users to the relay important issues to the relevant people, and properly communicate relevant info back with us. This is, for better or for worse, just part of the job. I'm not really sure how bad I can feel when that second part isn't really being done well, though, of course, external factors could be at play. There definitely seems to be a problem internally. You can tell by what was delivered to us two months ago and what's transpired since then. This is not normal. I hope to see whatever organizational issue is happening gets addressed. I don't think trying to sympathize with one guy is going to do anything to achieve that, though, because the business itself is already aware that a single person didn't make the decisions that led to this.

Also, we're, like, really easy to disregard, on an individual level. Silly little usernames next to silly little images with silly little words.  Some of us might be 12 year old children, and some of us might be seasoned academics and business professionals. There's no way to know, but lots of ways to brush off stupid, misinformed insults. It's not like we even know how he actually feels. I'd think we're all idiots, personally, but the customer empathy side of me would be tearing into everyone around me holding my product back. If anyone over there is doing that last thing, you have my respect.

But the worst case scenario is that nothing changes, and this was all for nothing.

[WereBruhver]

10 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

I've seen fingers pointed at him, and fingers pointed at Klei as a whole. Usually the latter, though my relationship with Wendy threads is acquaintances, at best. But I'm not really sure who directly receives blame by us matters. We are wrong, absolutely, if we think the fault lies with one dude. It's a good thing that kind of naivety is pretty easy to ignore.

But this was the result of years of business decisions made by different people. What matters to me is that customers are visibly discontent with the way this update has been handled, and that it gives the people with the power to actually make these decisions a reason to pivot. This information will move upwards, even if the wrong customer-facing employee is taking the blame. It will move upwards and receive action quicker if the bottom line is negatively affected. They have a better idea of what's going on than we do.

At the end of the day, it is the role of anyone who interfaces with users to the relay important issues to the relevant people, and properly communicate relevant info back with us. This is, for better or for worse, just part of the job. I'm not really sure how bad I can feel when that second part isn't really being done well, though, of course, external factors could be at play. There definitely seems to be a problem internally. You can tell by what was delivered to us two months ago and what's transpired since then. This is not normal. I hope to see whatever organizational issue is happening gets addressed. I don't think trying to sympathize with one guy is going to do anything to achieve that, though, because the business itself is already aware that a single person didn't make the decisions that led to this.

Also, we're, like, really easy to disregard, on an individual level. Silly little usernames next to silly little images with silly little words.  Some of us might be 12 year old children, and some of us might be seasoned academics and business professionals. There's no way to know, but lots of ways to brush off stupid, misinformed insults. It's not like we even know how he actually feels. I'd think we're all idiots, personally, but the customer empathy side of me would be tearing into everyone around me holding my product back. If anyone over there is doing that last thing, you have my respect.

But the worst case scenario is that nothing changes, and this was all for nothing.

Me when a group of people harass other users on the forum and wish death upon a dev and I have no idea about it. Ignorance is a bliss.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

2 minutes ago, WereBruhver said:

Me when a group of people harass other users on the forum and wish death upon a dev and I have no idea about it. Ignorance is a bliss.

DM info, then?

[DaDa_waw]

17 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This isn't really true either as there was a big disagreement on what Walter should be much like Wendy that wasn't just the devs not understanding the character and I don't think we should dictate what a character should be to the devs if they don't want to make it as we want that's not them not understanding that's them sticking with their intention popular or not. Besides they may change their minds but that's their choice.

I think when a work is published, the author loses the right to define it.
DST is a game, a commodity. Developers have a service relationship with players. If developers insist on denying the service attitude, players have the right to object. This is a reasonable business behavior and should not be blurred into a subordinate relationship.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, DaDa_waw said:

I think when a work is published, the author loses the right to define it.
DST is a game, a commodity. Developers have a service relationship with players. If developers insist on denying the service attitude, players have the right to object. This is a reasonable business behavior and should not be blurred into a subordinate relationship.

The developer has every right to decide how their game is handled the consumer does not if they dislike it they can simply go somewhere they like how the product is handled a developer cannot bend the knee to anyone who raises a complaint even more so when their efforts are taken for granted.

[cyjs]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The developer has every right to decide how their game is handled the consumer does not if they dislike it they can simply go somewhere they like how the product is handled a developer cannot bend the knee to anyone who raises a complaint even more so when their efforts are taken for granted.

What if the dissatisfaction is the most paid and 50%of the player group? Do I need to remind you that Klei is a company that needs to be operated, not a person who needs dignity?

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, cyjs said:

What if the dissatisfaction is the most paid and 50%of the player group? Do I need to remind you that Klei is a company that needs to be operated, not a person who needs dignity?

Interesting so do you speak as their highest paying portion of the playerbase?

[cyjs]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Interesting so do you speak as their highest paying portion of the playerbase?

You might as well look into it? I look forward to your response

[Echsrick]

is that considered to be a threat? its like saying that you wont buy anything anymore because the devs dont give into your demands at all times