Remove wendy from the beta

[SilverSpoon]

I don't like to be say like only Wendy players are never satisfied and never compromised, and want more work. I sure that everyone know how many people demanded for Nerf Wendy when Gestaby was OP and when Sistern III didn't have the heal downside, and there were certainly some voices blaming Klei for that. 

The landing point of this story is no one should be prevented from making suggestions, even if those suggestions are actually not good.

[Cassielu]

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Oh I know it's the most high quality skill tree to date.

They'll never admit that though.

I'm confused.

If Wendy should get them, then Klei choose giving her these things is improve the Wendy skilltree quality.

If Wendy shouldn't get them, then Klei choose giving her these things is reduce the Wendy skilltree quality.

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Yeah, maybe that's hard to understand? Imagine a cake that lacks cream and a cake that uses gasoline instead of cream. In order for the latter to qualify as a cake, you have to clean it of gasoline and add normal cream. Obviously the former is closer to a proper cake than the latter.

But it has the cream infact he's got the whole bakery's worth of quality to the point that if her quality is bad then every skill tree so far has been made with dirt as the standard her's sets is so outrageously high it calls the others into question.

2 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

I'm confused.

If Wendy should get them, then Klei choose giving her these things is improve the Wendy skilltree quality.

If Wendy shouldn't get them, then Klei choose giving her these things is reduce the Wendy skilltree quality.

You can say hers is low quality but compared to whose exactly? Even the minor details are far higher quality than  all previous 

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Well, there's no factual evidence for your opinion either.

In that case there's nothing to talk about. Hope you enjoy this update.

But there is the quality of her skill tree vs existing ones the devs specifically said Wendy was considered one of the stronger characters and her skill tree design reflected that and before all the gaslighting the community as a whole mostly considered her that way as well until it directly hindered her from getting a skill tree similar to those who actually needed a real shake up. That's not to say the initial build wasn't under tuned but to say the current state is low quality is just incorrect.

I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes the catalyst for people requesting a round 3 revisit of refreshes due to people comparing what she got compared to those who were denied for the same reasons.

[SilverSpoon]

54 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

That's not to say the initial build wasn't under tuned but to say the current state is low quality is just incorrect.

I agree that it's wrong to say current skill tree is low quality, but I can't think good enough neither.

Gestabby currently has two major bugs. I think this means that the last Wendy changes were made in tandem with Year of the Snake, so there are still some things of patchwork, and still it need more grind skill tree.

• The devs have unintentionally increased the duration of Gestabby's stun.
• Gestabby's "Attack At" does not trigger any attack at all.

 

[Y0sH]

2 hours ago, Cassielu said:

I don't know how you interpret this, but "refined than any other Skilltrees" you're talking about is exactly part of her "low quality / gasoline" to me.

You're having trouble interpreting what I was referring to because you didn't quote what I said, only a portion.

What I said was VISUALLY (the word you left out.) Wendy's Skilltree is VISUALLY more refined than any other Skilltree thus far already. Calling her Skilltree "gasoline" is hilarious considering that it was almost completely redone based on the feedback her playerbase provided. If the Skilltree is so terrible compared to others why isn't there any viable posts demanding an entire Skilltree redo? 

[Mysterious box]

37 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

I agree that it's wrong to say current skill tree is low quality, but I can't think good enough neither.

Gestabby currently has two major bugs. I think this means that the last Wendy changes were made in tandem with Year of the Snake, so there are still some things of patchwork, and still it need more grind skill tree.

• The devs have unintentionally increased the duration of Gestabby's stun.
• Gestabby's "Attack At" does not trigger any attack at all.

 

The devs have addressed that the stun was a bug and it will likely be fixed next patch at most Wendy needs minor fixes at this point we can't just delay updates forever to keep adding more and more to Wendy as she's consumed far too much time already holding back not only her peers in the update but possibly future updates as well.

People have been dissatisfied with almost every tree in some way at this point proving that they can't please everyone and trying to will simply cause more harm than good while holding back other updates.

[SilverSpoon]

25 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The devs have addressed that the stun was a bug and it will likely be fixed next patch at most Wendy needs minor fixes at this point we can't just delay updates forever to keep adding more and more to Wendy as she's consumed far too much time already holding back not only her peers in the update but possibly future updates as well.

People have been dissatisfied with almost every tree in some way at this point proving that they can't please everyone and trying to will simply cause more harm than good while holding back other updates.

I don't know how far the line is between "too little development time" and "too much development time," but I think Klei should have full authority to decide when it will be completed. In my opinion, and some others, it still needs to be improved, more or less. Even you said "Wendy needs minor fixes."

However, just player trying to shut up the opinions by saying "Wendy players will never be satisfied" or "Accept the current skill tree Wendy players" is most unsound for Klei than anything else. If you just want to express that no longer need to grind Wendy further, it's incorrect as soon as "Wendy Player" is the subject.

[Mysterious box]

59 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

I don't know how far the line is between "too little development time" and "too much development time," but I think Klei should have full authority to decide when it will be completed. In my opinion, and some others, it still needs to be improved, more or less. Even you said "Wendy needs minor fixes."

However, just player trying to shut up the opinions by saying "Wendy players will never be satisfied" or "Accept the current skill tree Wendy players" is most unsound for Klei than anything else. If you just want to express that no longer need to grind Wendy further, it's incorrect as soon as "Wendy Player" is the subject.

The line between two much isn't at all vague for Wendy she's had the most devolpement time and changes of any previous skill tree so much so that she seems to be not only diverting resources from the other skill trees in the current beta, but also potentially holding up future updates due to the delay. It's up to klei to decide whether to keep sinking time into her or not but there will be backlash if she widens the gap between the next content update due to the excessive focus.

The continued focus on her is more so klei fault though for doing so since they've been more than willing to set their own cut off points in the past for previous characters regardless of the dissatisfaction remaining.

I do think they should get get more appreciation for the hard work they have already put in though which is a shame they aren't and I can't imagine how disheartening this whole process has been for them.

[SilverSpoon]

Quote

The line between two much isn't at all vague for Wendy she's had the most devolpement time and changes of any previous skill tree so much so that she seems to be not only diverting resources from the other skill trees in the current beta, but also potentially holding up future updates due to the delay. It's up to klei to decide whether to keep sinking time into her or not but there will be backlash if she widens the gap between the next content update due to the excessive focus.

The continued focus on her is more so klei fault though for doing so since they've been more than willing to set their own cut off points in the past for previous characters regardless of the dissatisfaction remaining.

Personally, I would like Wendy skill tree be updated more 1-3 times, but I have no further comments any more about development time and leave it to Klei. Klei is probably better at knowing when to decide than me. I understand the other demand for more updates, but I don't think your opinion is false too.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I do think they should get get more appreciation for the hard work they have already put in though which is a shame they aren't and I can't imagine how disheartening this whole process has been for them.

I think you and I can both agree on that point. I have been trying to be consistent on that point, and have repeatedly asked the so-called "Wendy side" or "Forum outsider" to "Please show respect for Klei and not blame them because they are doing their best." 

For my sake, who has done so, I would appreciate it all of you would refrain blaming them with generalized terms like "Wendy players" or "Chinese people" or "They". Generalized blaming just make them more hostile towards all of you and Klei. (I'm not saying don't blame the individuals who blamed you or Klei. I can't defend that much, if someone blame other, get blamed is their own fault.)

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

Personally, I would like Wendy skill tree be updated more 1-3 times, but I have no further comments any more about devolvement time and leave it to Klei. Klei is probably better at knowing when to decide than me. I understand the other demand for more updates, but I don't think your opinion is false too.

I think you and I can both agree on that point. I have been trying to be consistent on that point, and have repeatedly asked the so-called "Our side" to "Please show respect for Klei and not blame them because they are doing their best." 

For my sake, who has done so, I would appreciate it all of you would refrain blaming them with generalized terms like "Wendy players" or "Chinese people" or "They". Generalized blaming just make them more hostile towards all of you and Klei. (I'm not saying don't blame the individuals who blamed you or Klei. I can't defend that much, if someone blame other, get blamed is their own fault.)

I want to clarify again that I didn't address people that were bad actors as just being the the Chinese posters as there were also multiple people from outside of that community making similar remarks while also being multiple people from within also making constructive feedback which is what I've clarified multiple times already perhaps it's a language barrier issue.

I will take responsibility and apologize for not being clear enough on my stance on the matter however.

[SilverSpoon]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I want to clarify again that I didn't address people that were bad actors as just being the the Chinese posters as there were also multiple people from outside of that community making similar remarks while also being multiple people from within also making constructive feedback which is what I've clarified multiple times already perhaps it's a language barrier issue.

I will take responsibility and apologize for not being clear enough on my stance on the matter however.

I apologize for not replying about that to last time(I'm bunch a rudeness enough to need to be approved by a moderator and my reply was not allowed last time).

I have not seen Mysterious Box has said anything rude against Chinese people. However ridicule the Chinese is a very critical insult to them and is one of the things that infuriates them the most. So I thought it need specifically mentioned it.

Also, Thank you for respecting my opinion. I also apologize for slanders that we have made towards Klei and all those who were trying to speak peacefully, and apologize for I'm totally not neutral at all in this beta and have acted hypocritically to you and everyone. I'm so sorry.

[gaymime]

3 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

For my sake, who has done so, I would appreciate it all of you would refrain blaming them with generalized terms like "Wendy players" or "Chinese people" or "They". Generalized blaming just make them more hostile towards all of you and Klei. (I'm not saying don't blame the individuals who blamed you or Klei. I can't defend that much, if someone blame other, get blamed is their own fault.)

unfortunately the only thing the people causing the most disruptions have in common is a claim that they play/love wendy. saying "wendy players" is indeed reductive and also covers people who did nothing wrong but also because of the nature of communication over a written medium is is very difficult to talk about a collective without any descriptor for said collective. i hope you can understand why it would make the situation much worse to call the collective by their actions instead of their sole shared identity( aka aggressive, abusive or disruptive) especially when it is up to the person reading to decide if they are also being talked about or not.

 

there are many people who feel strongly about the situation who have been reasonable and have followed the rules who already feel like they are also being targeted by comments that are disparaging or frustrated. i imagine it would be much worse if crueller more-direct descriptors were used simply to narrow down the people being described  especially since as it stands many people who are doing the most abusive posting do not see themselves as doing anything wrong and several people who were following rules felt personally attacked despite not being the ones talked about

 

 

 

as for removing wendy from the beta? that feels entirely without merit. the damage is done and no matter what people are going to be very angry. she is in a highly functional state; just tie up the loose strings and send her out. the more time is spent on wendy the less time the other two characters get before klei has to get back on schedule.

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, gaymime said:

saying "wendy players" is indeed reductive and also covers people who did nothing wrong but also because of the nature of communication over a written medium is is very difficult to talk about a collective without any descriptor for said collective. i hope you can understand why it would make the situation much worse to call the collective by their actions instead of their sole shared identity( aka aggressive, abusive or disruptive) especially when it is up to the person reading to decide if they are also being talked about or not.

 

there are many people who feel strongly about the situation who have been reasonable and have followed the rules who already feel like they are also being targeted by comments that are disparaging or frustrated. i imagine it would be much worse if crueller more-direct descriptors were used simply to narrow down the people being described  especially since as it stands many people who are doing the most abusive posting do not see themselves as doing anything wrong and several people who were following rules felt personally attacked despite not being the ones talked about

I appreciate that you read my opinion with respect and then sent me a moderate rebuttal.

Having said that, I think that I have the exact opposite opinion to yours, I think it's a good method to target criticism at bad behavior instead of specific group. It does not involve innocent people, make target criticism is clearly, and make some moderately because it does not directly criticize certain people. For example, in this case, I think it would be much better you criticize  "Insulting or Disrespecting Klei or developers", "Calling the current skill tree like garbage", or "picking a fight with someone who is still speaking calmly without insults or sarcasm" than "Wendy Player". (I should make it clear that I intentionally excluded "Lying or gaslighting about balancing." I can't judge whether it's done with malicious intent or not, and it's not bad behavior if just to say something wrong.)

Also, just to be clear, when I say be nice to people, I also am saying that everyone on my side too. And also I tell myself it. It's okay to scold me when I'm having a tantrum and messing around. A ton of people lost their cool in this beta, That's including me.

[Cassielu]

8 hours ago, Y0sH said:

What I said was VISUALLY (the word you left out.) Wendy's Skilltree is VISUALLY more refined than any other Skilltree thus far already. Calling her Skilltree "gasoline" is hilarious considering that it was almost completely redone based on the feedback her playerbase provided. If the Skilltree is so terrible compared to others why isn't there any viable posts demanding an entire Skilltree redo? 

Almost no one asks for this much higher level of visual refinement than other characters, In the early days of beta, there were lot of post ask for redo it, lot of people have already said they don't think these skills are right for Wendy.

However, developers misunderstood or ignored this need, releasing pure art asset update after another in an attempt to convince people they are wrong. And the people's original needs received almost no response.

[DVGMedia]

10 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

And I don't get why people here are so obsessed with compressing as many skills as possible. People are viewing skill trees as just character buffs instead of a way to modify a character to one's liking and ultimately add replayability to these characters while fleshing out what already made them special. Everyone wants to get as much value out of every single skill so that they always get everything when they spend all of their insight.

There really is not much modification going on for wendy though.

Its like go with the affinity  Team or sisturn thats already 9 points.
And maybe you want to go a bit of grave spawns or slightly more potions.
or go with slightly more potions and the hat
Not really much to go off of.
Compared to like wormwood. Who has minion dps armor dps armor buffs and cc or even trap cc.
or he can go more resource based with shrooms plants and photosynthisis
The choices you got on the wendy tree really are limited.

And thats what i would want Just like remove a few points here and there and provide more unique options than what we got now.

I think the affinities can lose the first point that jsut adds planar defense and make that be based on the transformation.
Shadow abby already gains bonus defense on transformation so why not make it that way for gestalt aswell while freeing up those 2 points for something else.

I would say that butterfly is also just a filler perk for those who want to use shadow. But can make it be part of the flower craft tree and add another flower craft that creates a unique interaction with abigial.

Potion duration doesn't help abby  since she will often cycle potions however it does help the wreath. soely for the heavy armor and nightvision. 

Draught and vengence basically do nothing on wreath.

Theres alot more things that can be done that are not game breaking but add more character to the tree
 

[Cassielu]

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

But there is the quality of her skill tree vs existing ones the devs specifically said Wendy was considered one of the stronger characters and her skill tree design reflected that and before all the gaslighting the community as a whole mostly considered her that way as well until it directly hindered her from getting a skill tree similar to those who actually needed a real shake up. That's not to say the initial build wasn't under tuned but to say the current state is low quality is just incorrect.

I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes the catalyst for people requesting a round 3 revisit of refreshes due to people comparing what she got compared to those who were denied for the same reasons.

You are talking about quantity rather than quality.

Im sure people wouldn't want their favorite characters to be the next Wendy, they just want other characters to be the next Winona, Wurt, Walter, or Wortox.

Also, whether the character is strong or not is another matter entirely, avoiding op is exactly the same work as avoiding underpowered. Being strong (even if she really is) isn't an excuse not to do anything with the character, Wortox and Wurt are both strong characters, but that hasn't stopped them from getting a better skilltree.

[gaymime]

2 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

I appreciate that you read my opinion with respect and then sent me a moderate rebuttal.

Having said that, I think that I have the exact opposite opinion to yours, I think it's a good method to target criticism at bad behavior instead of specific group. It does not involve innocent people, make target criticism is clearly, and make some moderately because it does not directly criticize certain people. For example, in this case, I think it would be much better you criticize  "Insulting or Disrespecting Klei or developers", "Calling the current skill tree like garbage", or "picking a fight with someone who is still speaking calmly without insults or sarcasm" than "Wendy Player". (I should make it clear that I intentionally excluded "Lying or gaslighting about balancing." I can't judge whether it's done with malicious intent or not, and it's not bad behavior if just to say something wrong.)

Also, just to be clear, when I say be nice to people, I also am saying that everyone on my side too. And also I tell myself it. It's okay to scold me when I'm having a tantrum and messing around. A ton of people lost their cool in this beta, That's including me.

please understand i am not trying to fight when i say this; several people have tried your approach, including you, and only had insults hurled at them, claims of being abusive aimed at them and were accused of lying. nothing was achieved except locked threads.

at this point i am not sure what approach is even open.

[Mysterious box]

26 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

You are talking about quantity rather than quality.

Im sure people wouldn't want their favorite characters to be the next Wendy, they just want other characters to be the next Winona, Wurt, Walter, or Wortox.

Also, whether the character is strong or not is another matter entirely, avoiding op is exactly the same work as avoiding underpowered.

How is Walter quality but Wendy not? His skill tree is half finished and the existing skills having various problems then there's Wurt who has most of her skills just being number buffs including an entire branch that's hard to even keep active outside of spring nor is it worth actively trying to and Wurt players can only wish they had the same level of control over her merms that Wendy has over Abigial. Winona's tree is almost entirely centered around her catapults this isn't just a case of quantity Wendy's skill tree is very high quality. Also putting Wendy in the same breath as Walter, Winona, and Wurt is weird to begin with considering those characters specifically suffered from low play rates and major flaws that turned people off playing them are you trying to claim Wendy the most played character should be treated like a character with lower play rates and flaws?

[DVGMedia]

19 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

are you trying to claim Wendy the most played character should be treated like a character with lower play rates and flaws?

Well lower play rate characters seem to get better treatment. So yeah she should because then more people would actually appreciate the better treatment.

Wendy is always going to be the most played just cause of her character and not her playstyle.
 She was always simple and never really needed all that much to be good.  Even like simple number changes would have been sufficeint
That is kind of what happened to wendy.
Pipspook line is just making things more common and abundant.
Potion line is just boosting numbers storage and 1 new potion.
Sisturn is just boosting numbers and resist
Wreath is just mimicing other items. (The only unique thing of it is the heavy item use)

shadow is just boosting numbers of abby And Its still better of the two affinities.
the non number boosts are team spirit and graves. Which are the most unique parts of the tree

The only skill tree that got more players to play that character was probably willows cause she stole them from wendy.
Because people were saying willow was basically a better wendy Cause bernie takes all the aggro and willow can just burn them all down with aoe
where were the people saying that steps on wendys turf? Yet people will say we don't want wendy to become willow.
 

[Steorra]

36 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Wortox and Wurt are both strong characters

This might be debatable for some people. We have seen many people attended to considering the balance with only DPS factor. And it's obviously some of them are lack of skills which makes them can hardly to master Wortox for all their potential. Which makes Wortox without tree would not be considered as a strong character.

And similarly, this might be a reason about why some people insist that Wendy was imbalance already before the tree - Wendy could auto survive without skills.

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Wurt players can only wish they had the same level of control over her merms that Wendy has over Abigial

Sorry?

For most Wurt players I have seen from this forum, they just simply wish for a nerfing for Wurt's tree. I never seen any of them said similar thing like what you said here.

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Wendy's skill tree is very high quality

I could only see conclusion like this in beta branch from some particular people. I never seen any evidence to prove this from General Discussion polls.

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Wendy is always going to be the most played just cause of her character and not her playstyle.
 She was always simple and never really needed all that much to be good.  Even like simple number changes would have been sufficeint
That is kind of what happened to wendy.
Pipspook line is just making things more common and abundant.
Potion line is just boosting numbers storage and 1 new potion.
Sisturn is just boosting numbers and resist
Wreath is just mimicing other items. (The only unique thing of it is the heavy item use)

This unironically describes what Wurt got stat buffs(merm king blessings), skills that reduce her grind (merm structures), skills that mimic existing items ( mosquito crafts and the amphibian branch) much like Wendy it could be argued that Wurt's alignment skills are the most unique part of her tree ironically enough there's also a complaint that the alignments aren't equally balanced as well.

14 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Well lower play rate characters seem to get better treatment. So yeah she should because then more people would actually appreciate the better treatment.

Better treatment how exactly? Willow was lacking thematically so Klei fixed that and Walter's slingshot was just bad so Klei is working on fixing that it's completely unreasonable to expect Klei to give Wendy a major shakeup when she didn't need one just because she's popular that level of favoritism would just give a louder voice to people dissatisfied with the other trees that didn't need the same level of shake ups.

23 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

The only skill tree that got more players to play that character was probably willows cause she stole them from wendy.
Because people were saying willow was basically a better wendy Cause bernie takes all the aggro and willow can just burn them all down with aoe
where were the people saying that steps on wendys turf? Yet people will say we don't want wendy to become willow.

Bernie's theme was always stealing aggro and being a tank while Abigail's was based around dps, aoe, and control this was brought up back during the refresh days. Willow didn't steal Wendy's identity they just fleshed her out more than just being a teddymancer with a few fire related perks.

31 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Sorry?

For most Wurt players I have seen from this forum, they just simply wish for a nerfing for Wurt's tree. I never seen any of them said similar thing like what you said here

Then honestly you simply weren't participating enough in the Wurt beta people wanted merm hamlet with merchants, fishermerms(from shipwrecked), greater control over merms, Wurt swimming and various other things and what they got were stat buffs and quality of life upgrades like Wendy. Personally I like the route they took with Wurt but I know that wasn't a very popular opinion.

35 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I could only see conclusion like this in beta branch from some particular people. I never seen any evidence to prove this from General Discussion polls.

Then explain to me what specifically represents the quality of a skill tree? People keep trying to push the idea that Walter's skill tree is high quality for example but what makes his high quality and Wendy's not? Should we break a function of Wendy's base skill set and retroactively fix it via a skill tree and remove half her skill tree breaking skills apart to make up more slots so as to make it higher quality? Or maybe there's some other standard I'm missing like should we have gone the Wortox route and more or less treated her as already complete after the first couple of tweaks? If you want my opinion I don't think it's about the quality of Wendy's skill tree but more so the desire to elevate her beyond where the devs seem to want her to be which again comes with the consequence of calling the designs of the previous skill trees into question like Wilson, Wolfgang, Wigfrid, and even Wurt.

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Then honestly you simply weren't participating enough in the Wurt beta people wanted merm hamlet with merchants, fishermerms(from shipwrecked), greater control over merms, Wurt swimming and various other things and what they got were stat buffs and quality of life upgrades like Wendy.

Fair enough. And this give a good explanation to the changes of MG by Wendy's tree.

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Then explain to me what specifically represents the quality of a skill tree?

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Then explain to me what specifically represents the quality of a skill tree?

Everyone would has their own definition, but I don't think it would be such important. A poll of "which skilltree would be your favourite" is enough for the survey. And Wendy always be voted as one of those poor trees.

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

calling the designs of the previous skill trees into question like Wilson, Wolfgang, Wigfrid, and even Wurt

Yes the skill trees you mentioned here are definitely need recheck. Could you understand that the current Wendy thing is based on the low quality of Wilson and Wigfrid trees? Folks might could endure them from the beginning, but laterly they found "oh if this continues then the character I love would suffer similar destinations in future, or, the game will become worse and worse." It's just a timing for Wendy's thing. Wendy has the most player base, which makes the thing finally happened during her tree's beta.

 

[Mysterious box]

39 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Everyone would has their own definition, but I don't think it would be such important. A poll of "which skilltree would be your favourite" is enough for the survey. And Wendy always be voted as one of those poor trees.

The number wouldn't matter because the poll would be decided by the popularity of the character rather than the level of quality.

 

42 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Yes the skill trees you mentioned here are definitely need recheck. Could you understand that the current Wendy thing is based on the low quality of Wilson and Wigfrid trees? Folks might could endure them from the beginning, but laterly they found "oh if this continues then the character I love would suffer similar destinations in future, or, the game will become worse and worse." It's just a timing for Wendy's thing. Wendy has the most player base, which makes the thing finally happened during her tree's beta.

The thing is though the game hasn't become worse simply because Klei hasn't completely reinvented every character touched by a skill tree and if they did the skill trees would just end up spiraling so far out of control we might not see the end of them until 2030 at the rate we're going. As mentioned by the devs outside of characters who really needed a shake up skill trees were never meant to completely reinvent the characters. I would imagine the last character who will get a major shakeup with their skill tree would be Warly. A poll I'd really be interested in seeing is if people would be willing to sit through a 2nd round of skill trees if it meant klei would go back and reinvent the skill trees of all the existing ones for the sake of reinventing the characters in the same way those that actually needed it got.

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The number wouldn't matter because the poll would be decided by the popularity of the character rather than the level of quality.

Then according to the "Wendy is the most popular character", why we have not a matched results?

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

the game hasn't become worse

It did become worse. Skill tree is just a fuse of dissatisfied expression.

We all know how many bugs has been patched out in later of 2024, and ee all know howmany of them has been delayed for the fixs.