Ice crystalizer freezing needs to go

[Gi-Go]

So, here is something I had to learn the hard way by dying multiple times (because I'm Wanda). Ice crystalizer makes you freeze to death, and the only way to save yourself is to have a furnace INSIDE the range of ice crystalizer. Mine was outside and I had no idea this game's temperature mechanics are weird like that. Standing for half a minute near 2 furnaces did not help, pulling out all 4 thermals did not help either. I took damage for half a minute until I died. Thermal stone will protect you from ice crystalizer, but only in spring and winter. It does not help in summer or autumn. 

I'm not a programmer so I don't really get why the temperature works the way it does, but I get the impression this is some kind of simple code that was made assuming noone will freeze in summer. And it got me wondering why even make a late game structure have an annoying downside like this, if the game is not designed to make players freeze in summer? Is it my fault that I didn't understand how furnace and crystalizer work? Game does not have a temperature meter, and I just don't see the logic in furnace working only when placed a specific way. 

I think this downside needs to go. Summer is the most annoying season and yet the item that is meant to fix that is also annoying. 

[grm9]

pretty sure that it doesn't work like that since i remember freezing because of a mooncaller star and temperature going above 0 after a few seconds, were you using something with summer insulation?

[Hornete]

The reason it's upsides work is due to the fact world temperature inside the area changes. You're getting the ability to place a little mini Winter essentially with upsides and downsides.

I think this is such an amazing direction to take the game in, with all the reality warping junk being able to activate/affect world states in an area is flipping awesome! The problem is you don't even get the full benefit of Winter! It's lackluster, you get the main downside with very little upsides. I've mentioned this many times on these forums but the ice crystaleyezer will always feel very lackluster for that reason of not fully activating proper winter effects and only the temperature related ones. It's really unfortunate because while I would say this is the worse of the three items, I genuinely think it's the most creative of the three. Bearger Bin and Howlitzer are rehashes of past item concepts(Not a bad thing to be clear! But that's what they are) while the Ice Crystaleyezer genuinely tries something new.

I suppose for it to be a good item and if they don't want to put more effort in making it a full winter simulator, then I would be OK with the local temperature being adjusted to above 0 (You would still get prevention of withering and farm plot drying prevention, No slower spoilage on perishables though). But I'd really really really would like this to be a last ditch effort.

About thermal stones, they're unfortunately bugged! They don't properly take into account local temperature and instead use the proper world temperature in one of their calculations. As for you taking forever to heat up you likely had some summer insulation which was slowing you from heating up.

[Gi-Go]

25 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Mini winter

Ok, forget all I said then. Give me year around walruses instead (because I'm Wanda). 

[nimzowitsch10]

i agree with this, i wish it was just a smolder proof zone for non oasis bases.

Right now the only way to have a comfortable megabase is in oasis or knobbly trees which is not very good options for alot of worlds

Sure you can make it rain all summer but it gets very annoying to keep turning on

 

I doubt many people even make the ice crystalleyzer because of how bad the freezing is

[Gi-Go]

34 minutes ago, grm9 said:

pretty sure that it doesn't work like that since i remember freezing because of a mooncaller star and temperature going above 0 after a few seconds, were you using something with summer insulation?

No, and I did a few tests before writing this as well to make sure I understood the mechanic. Usually getting near heat sources while being below 0 gets you to non lethal temperature instantly. But the furnace did this only in ice crystalizer range during summer. 

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

No, and I did a few tests before writing this as well to make sure I understood the mechanic. Usually getting near heat sources while being below 0 gets you to non lethal temperature instantly. But the furnace did this only in ice crystalizer range during summer

that's because you heat up much more quickly if you're at a low temperature  if the environment's temperature is below 35, heating up shouldn't require that much more time even when it's above 35 though, assuming that you went away right after you started freezing 

[Gashzer]

Just swap eyebrella for beefalo hat while in base. 

Seems like Klei doesnt wanna make vanilla summer too easy without some sort of compromise.

[Well-met]

skill issue, learn how insulation works

[Gi-Go]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Just swap eyebrella for beefalo hat while in base. 

Seems like Klei doesnt wanna make vanilla summer too easy without some sort of compromise.

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. 

[chirsg]

I personally stand by the tactic of having fire nettles around to keep you warm during the frosty summers.

If I were to weigh in on a solution, I'd get rid of ambient temperatures on thermal stones. You can't super heat thermals mid summer because it becomes "room temp"

Pretty stupid if you ask me. If you could have thermal stones function according to true temperature, having it glow red when 90 degrees and above and below 0 having it be frosty, you could use it during summer to stay warm within range. 

 

I've found solutions to ice crystaleyezer personally, but it's too easy for me to say as I play wigfrid and more or less ignore weather damage or starvation damage. 

 

I wouldn't want the whole super freezing to go just because, but I'd like some solutions to be discussed

[cybers2001]

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

that's because you heat up much more quickly if you're at a low temperature  if the environment's temperature is below 35, heating up shouldn't require that much more time even when it's above 35 though, assuming that you went away right after you started freezing 

 

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

skill issue, learn how insulation works

You both are confused. Hornette is right. Thermal stones (and presumably furnaces) behave differently in different seasons. Ever notice how a thermal stone in the ice box in winter is less cool than a thermal stone in an ice box in summer, or vice-versa with thermal stones next to furnaces?

I think it's the same for the starcaller, too. The star warms you quicker near the crystalizer than far from it.

[CuteC]

I got a workaround for this after we built the thing in our world:
1- Place them where you think they'd be needed.
2- Proceed to never use them again after seeing they cause more harm than good.
3- Have a fridge full of thermal stones so you can just swap out when needed, like we already did before the eye crystalwhatever.
3.1- Use a cold fish if you're Wurt.

[Gashzer]

6 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. 

Yeah the fact you are so conditioned to accept being forced into the caves to protect your surface base is ok...

Just shows how much value the ice crystalizer has atm.

I enjoy not needing to base in the oasis and not worrying about wildfires while hanging around my surface base during summer.

Ice crystalizer really deserves its downside lol

[Tranoze]

My solution is give ice crystalizer a really cool animation take about 1.5 secs so wanda can run away before the ice effect deal damage.

[grm9]

5 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

You both are confused. Hornette is right. Thermal stones (and presumably furnaces) behave differently in different seasons. Ever notice how a thermal stone in the ice box in winter is less cool than a thermal stone in an ice box in summer, or vice-versa with thermal stones next to furnaces?

I think it's the same for the starcaller, too. The star warms you quicker near the crystalizer than far from it

they do, but furnaces should still always put you above 0 degrees 

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

So, if I understand it correctly, the general consensus here is keep the ice crystalyzer as dangerous as is, but rework the heat mechanics to be more intuitive, right?

[Jakepeng99]

On 4/25/2024 at 7:57 PM, grm9 said:

pretty sure that it doesn't work like that since i remember freezing because of a mooncaller star and temperature going above 0 after a few seconds, were you using something with summer insulation?

Nope, it happens to me all the time. It stays below 0 for so long it is frustrating.

[CrimsonStrider]

On 4/26/2024 at 2:49 AM, Gi-Go said:

So, here is something I had to learn the hard way by dying multiple times (because I'm Wanda).

lol I clicked this topic thinking I ****ing hate that thing. I kept dying/nearly dying because I'd accidentally go near one my friend was using. If you're 60+ there's a good chance you'll die. God forbid bats or something stupid start harassing you at the same time.

 

On 4/26/2024 at 2:57 AM, grm9 said:

pretty sure that it doesn't work like that since i remember freezing because of a mooncaller star and temperature going above 0 after a few seconds, were you using something with summer insulation?

Honestly it's really wonky.

As Wanda, polar lights can be kind of scary. But like you said, you usually don't freeze for that long. 

Ice Crystalizer is a different beast. 

Polar light will get you to -6° but it's not very fast and it's radius is small. Once you notice the freezing animation and start walking away, you'll begin warming up. Usually you leave it's freezing radius around -1° or -2°.

Ice Crystaleyezer will get you to -10°. Touching the center instantly sets you to -2°. Otherwise, because the radius is so large, by the time you react to the freezing sound, you're already so far enough “in” that exiting will leave you around -5°. Unless you were already fairly low and began freezing at the very edge of it's range.

If you go to a furnace outside of the eye's range, it will not heat you. If there are any beneficial effects, they seem almost negligible. Even with 4 next to each other. You will continue to freeze, as mentioned, for some time.

If you put 4 furnaces next to each other within the eye's range, you will immediately go above 0 when approaching. I think even 1 was enough to stop freezing. Also, you can overheart very quickly standing in the middle.

Generally speaking, polar light will take away 2 to 5 years. Eye usually takes 5 to 10, with really bad scenarios able to eat away 20 years.

The way the furnace works in Summer is definitely not intuitive.

 

[Brago-sama]

Im pretty sure this things meant to be used in tandom with a sunfish.

•Instantly stops freezeing unless youre standing deadcenter, and even then, will insta warm you the second you step away

•Lasts longer from the freeze bonus (although i will admit this is hear-say i heard here on the forums, tho since the bearger pack affects them, im willing to beleive)

•Melts any icebergs in the way

Heres like a minute showing it off on a farm that takes advantage of the ice eye thingy

Spoiler

 

The frozen brightshade will prevent others from spawning on the farm and grass.

 

[00petar00]

Ice crystayeleser freezing needed to go as soon as this structure was introduced to the game but here we are. What is the point of such an endgame item that is worse than knobby trees? I do agree that knobby trees require a lot of work to set up and can only be built near water so you are limited where you want to build your base and usually have to use docks to cover it so it looks bad but this just makes the apperance of your base quite ugly but you can completely cover a decent size base with them.

I would want to be able to build knobby trees everywhere by making a river/puddle on any sort of terrain and ice crystayeleser should be buffed massively by removing freezing effect and adding more things to it to make it comparable to the buffed knobby tree so that players have more choices and summer wildfires shouldn't be such a deal breaker as they currently are.