It's time to solve the long-standing problems of Ruins

[Mr.Oshiro]

In 2015,Klei brought the Caves into DST. In order to reduce the number of servers, they combined the Ruins with Caves and made adjustments to the biomes, which has undergone significant changes compared to DS. But perhaps due to time constraints, the generation of the Ruins biomes has many problems and impacts to this day.

By comparing these two pictures, you can see that the Ruins of DS are very complete, with clear and coherent boundaries of the biomes, while the Ruins of DST are chaotic, with many meaningless paths interspersed in the regular set pieces.

The Sacred（purple area in the lower left corner） is the most altered among all the Ruins of the biome.The originally vast and resource rich  Sacred only have a few set pieces left, resulting in DST having fewer thules than single player games. Ruin reset was a feature that only emerged in 2017, and obtaining gems and thules before that was very tight, making it difficult to serve multiple players. It's really hard to understand why Cole made such a change.

In addition to the Sacred that must be generated, there are also two branch biomes: MoreAltars and SacredDanger.In DS, if you are lucky enough, all three biomes can be generated, and they are all a complete large area.

From top to bottom are Sacred, SacredDanger, and MoreAltars.

However, in DST, the situation has completely changed. I don't know why the complete altar has become a separate biome. In order to reflect its uniqueness, MoreAltars biome have been extensively deleted, leaving only one damaged altar without adding anything else. Even so, it can still become a biome???

only one damaged altar

Although SacredDanger retains the background room, the space is often squeezed and can only generate very small areas. And the turf has been changed to a light color, which does not match the color of ancient pillars. Moreover, the purple ancient turf is different from the other two, as it has a unique environmental sound effect that allows players to immerse themselves more strongly in ancient civilization. Listen carefully to those sounds, they seem to be echoes left by ancient craftsmen building great cities...

 

 

The second major issue is the Military.Similarly, comparing the military of DS, the military of DST are also severely squeezed, just like the Sacred.The main problem is that a set-piece that seems to have appeared in the Sacred appears here, very abruptly penetrating the entire military.This not only destroys the unique way this biome is generated, but also makes it ugly and narrow.

 

In fact, the two military above are relatively well generated. There are many military that do not generate maze parts or generate very few, with almost no resources. This further weakens its sense of existence.

  

It is very ironic that KLEI greatly reduces the danger level of the most abundant treasure areas in the Ruins, but increases the danger of some less important biomes in the first half. During the wild stage, players are often pursued by shadow creatures from the LichenLand or Monkey Village.Rewards and danger are very mismatched.

 

I have always wondered why guano turf is used here in the monkey village biome. After checking the code, I think this is likely caused by negligence. guano turf is the default turf for caves, and Cole did not make any modifications during transplantation. This area represents the biomes of all monkey villages, but due to turf limitations. Monkey barrels cannot be generated here!

Monkey villages often have multiple biomes connected, and they are also severely squeezed. Compared to a standalone monkey village, the large, interconnected monkey maze is almost non-existent in DST, which makes me feel very regretful.

 

Finally, there are some minor problems. In a single player game, the maze is connected to the lichenland, so its entrance is also a small lichenland, similar to the transition between the Moon Mushroom Forest and the Archives. But DST placed it at the back, which resulted in a less harmonious transition with the previous biome.

Purple ancient turf not only has normal environmental sound effects but also environmental sound effects during the wild stage, which can render the Ruins at this time more terrifying. It is not used in DST.

 

In summary. I spent a lot of time inspecting the ruins, conducting research, and summarizing.Although it has been eight years now, I believe that with the launch of the Host of Horrors, will be more new things in the ruins when we update the shadow content next time. If Klei can solve these problems, I will definitely be grateful！

 

[Creatorofswamps]

[Fufuji]

It is the perfect time, to make this hard fighting zone hard again.

[Guille6785]

I've been wishing for these changes for years and just accepted klei is never gonna fix the ruins

[MagicalStorm]

I was not expecting for this to be explained like this. Ruins definitely should be fixed!

[Maxil20]

I really, really hope they look into this. As someone who adored the DS ruins (it was one of the main things that got me into the game!), it pained me how meh the DST ruins have felt despite feeling significantly more important to raid/loot. I really hope they look into this again someday to tweak the generation to feel much more in line with DS, while still being unique in it’s own merits.

[mima_]

at this point i just wish for them to generated properly  especially military that i found too many times generated empty. many times i got two large separated monkey village and small ruins .. 

[Frosty_Mentos]

I always thought that perhaps ruins were kinda too easy despite the double health enemies. I do also think it should get a sort of a makeup and have parts redone cause of all the twisted paths that annoy me for just existing without a purpose.

It's not as the ancient city we used to explore but more of a run loot grab dump we always visit. I don't mind the amount of treasures we get cause usually it's a plentiful and regenning ruins brings even more so. I'm more interested in seeing it having it's glorious feeling of danger and lack of safety. More dangerous ruins yes please. It's DST after all, improvements are always welcome.

[Dextops]

PLEEEEASE

[b l a n k]

Remove void walking, then maybe anything you posted here might become relevant :X

For now it's just pointless

[Cheggf]

Is the biome actually called LichenLand in the code? That is the most badass name it could possibly have. 

22 minutes ago, b l a n k said:

Remove void walking, then maybe anything you posted here might become relevant :X

For now it's just pointless

The vast majority of people don't voidwalk and it doesn't even do anything to help you loot the ruins since all the rewards are in the ruins, not the void. The only irrelevant thing here is voidwalking, which you brought up for no reason. 

[Mr.Oshiro]

8 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I've been wishing for these changes for years and just accepted klei is never gonna fix the ruins

I have provided feedback on the issue of the ruins many times before, but unfortunately, Klei has never responded to this.

 

6 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Is the biome actually called LichenLand in the code? That is the most badass name it could possibly have. 

The vast majority of people don't voidwalk and it doesn't even do anything to help you loot the ruins since all the rewards are in the ruins, not the void. The only irrelevant thing here is voidwalking, which you brought up for no reason. 

Yeah, This biome is located at the entrance of the ruins, and Klei has made a large number of lichen generations a feature of this area.

 

[-Nick-]

Caves as a whole need a revamp.

[Creatorofswamps]

41 minutes ago, -Nick- said:

Caves as a whole need a revamp.

Yes

[Spino43]

The amount of loot you can get in ds map is bonkers.

Dst ruins generation is quite awful. Sometimes you get a big one but next to no monkies (good for beard hair/nightmate fuel/ banana/ morsel) farming. And sometimes it's the opposite.

Also, I always feel dst ruins to be awfully cramped for no reason. 

[Gi-Go]

I visited single player resently after not playing it for over 6 years and the thing that I really felt dst was lacking is that audio ambience. I really hope klei will bring it back it's so mysterious. 

[Creatorofswamps]

Klei, this guy has spent a lot of time and effort, he deserves at least a little answer or explanation about the ruins

[Jakepeng99]

2 hours ago, -Nick- said:

Caves as a whole need a revamp.

I agree, most the caves are useless besides a few important areas. The starting area has no unique mobs or items, and neither does the mushtrees. Rocky biomes are too gimmicky to be useful.

[Cassielu]

Klei never look back, which is a real shame for this game that was a complete world construction and  ahead of its time.

[Antynomity]

Yeah, the ruins generation is pretty... not good, it's honestly not fun going through the current ruins generation, it's super cramped, there's barely any mobs to fight and get attacked by (idk how it was in singleplayer in reality since I didn't really play in the caves that much back in the day) and the generation itself is just... not good looking imo.

Also... the ambiance in the post, I'm hearing for the first time ever and it's such a shame it's not in DST, like imagine hearing that **** irl.

[Mr.Oshiro]

4 hours ago, -Nick- said:

Caves as a whole need a revamp.

I absolutely agree with this. For many years, countless players have been waiting for the caves to be renovated and have put forward many excellent suggestions. Among various voting topics that ask for updated content, Caves Update always leads the way, and everyone clearly tells Klei what they wants.

Unfortunately, even so, the caves remained almost motionless and lifeless. Perhaps this is too difficult for Klei. So now I hope they can at least repair the Ruins, and this process doesn't require much new content.

4 hours ago, Spino43 said:

The amount of loot you can get in ds map is bonkers.

Dst ruins generation is quite awful. Sometimes you get a big one but next to no monkies (good for beard hair/nightmate fuel/ banana/ morsel) farming. And sometimes it's the opposite.

Also, I always feel dst ruins to be awfully cramped for no reason. 

Because they placed ruins and caves together, the space for the generation of the biomes was severely squeezed. Compared to caves, the problem of ruins is more serious because many biomes are set pieces, and once space is insufficient, a large amount of resources cannot be generated, with Military being the most obvious. In addition, Archives also have the same problem.

4 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

I visited single player resently after not playing it for over 6 years and the thing that I really felt dst was lacking is that audio ambience. I really hope klei will bring it back it's so mysterious. 

In fact, DST also has ambient sound effects, but the sound is too low to be heard.The atmosphere has been greatly weakened. I have also provided feedback on this problem and compared it with DS. But just like other problems, there was no response.

 

[Ardcrumb]

God, the ambiance makes me want a return to the scary and mysterious side of ds.

[Juanasdf]

8 hours ago, -Nick- said:

Caves as a whole need a revamp.

Caves are so barren and boring that I'd regen that shard without blinking in some of my already existing worlds :/.

My biggest problem with them though is the lack of convenient fast travels (and void walking barely helps

[Waynel]

I prefer the design philosophy that was used for DST ruins since it gave more purpose to the various biomes it’s made up of. In particular, being on the path to the actual ruins, DST monkeys aren’t left on the sidelines: they have a real function consisting in preventing players from just carelessly waltzing in to the much prized sacred and military biomes (monkeys are arguably the biggest danger of the ruins, and one of the reasons a ruins trip is generally considered “high risk high reward”).
Also, having a lot of pillars, the lichen area is harder to navigate through in DST.

Since the maze provides the best loot the ruins can offer, it makes sense that it’s harder to find its location (at times frustrating I reckon) and survive the trip up until that point (monkeys + nightmare lights + clockworks). As for the design of the maze itself, nightmare lights on the inside felt wrong because it ruins the 1v1 AG climax if you were to retreat a bit and get chased by freshly spawned nightmare creatures from around the arena.
I always felt like the maze is supposed to be this breathing room that you need after you’ve dealt with the harshness of the previous biomes and before you start a boss fight.

Military and sacred biomes with fewer loot (compared to DS) are more fitting as this design prevents the player from getting an absurd amount of thulecite gear from the get-go and gives an incentive to kill the Ancient Fuelweaver for a ruins reset. Besides, it’s fair to say that it’s extremely unlikely to not get yellow or green gems given the relatively recent AG loot buff. And remember that in DS, unless you escaped, you were limited to 3 ruins per world that could not be reset… which most likely was the reason for why DS ruins were so rich.
Although, I’ll admit that non-existent military or empty military squares in DST are very disappointing and should be fixed.

 

 

All in all, there is no need to revisit the design of the ruins. But Klei should fix the issues related to twisted cave generation (intermingled biomes, ruins split across the whole map and so on).

[DegenerateFurry]

I really want a return of the ambiance, it's so spooky and it fits the mood so well. If nothing else, they ought to put that back in (although the generation changes would be lovely too).