What Does Uncompromising Mean?

[Mike23Ua]

28 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Surely you can see the difference between being able to spawn as many copies of Deerclops as you want back to back to amass infinite eyeballs and a small indie studio not having the resources to properly make a completely realistic world in every single regard. 

I think if they can program the game to respawn Catcoon Dens after all of them have been destroyed, they can ALSO Program the game to respawn hostile threats after awhile (Swamp Tentacles, Killer Bee Hives, Hound Dens, etc..)

Klei just seems to actively encourage this ability for the player to clear out an entire dang biome and mold the game world to their liking..

When in Reality, or well rather from a Story Point of view: The Survivors aren’t the ones in Control! And Never have been… It’s Either Charlie or whatever’s controlling Charlie- And there’s evidence to back that up by having things happen to the world like Rose thorns wrapping around Maxwells statues and crumbling them, or the Briar Hounds, or the little roses you see on the ground every now and again.

My point is that if the constant is out to kill you, it should be respawning the threats that CAN kill you, rather than letting you clear out the entire map so it’s mostly a barren wasteland at some point.

[Phizzle]

Good points Chegg and Mike. I hope Klei reads this thread. 

 

Edit: I want to suffer again

[GenomeSquirrel]

It is funny to think of uncompromising when console exists and world creation has so many toggles. 
 

It could be argued the a winter hat e.g. is a compromise, you get a milder new set of rules.

 

It’s awkward to think of uncompromising as if in Mario Lost Levels you could ask for a more sane game, but perhaps newer Marios comprise by giving pity items after enough deaths.

[Retepeter]

3 hours ago, Wonz said:

It means the early game armor grants you whooping 5x less damage taken and that you can make one round around desert and spiders to make 20 pierogi for 800 health which makes you again be able to take 5x more damage. Then the hard part starts where you hold F and stand still eating pierogi going through armors and boss dies.  

Yeah you know where deserts spawn, how to cook pierogi (and get stuff for a crockpot), get an alchemy engine and make the early game armor, pig skin for it and how much the boss has and if it has any special attacks. A noob doesn't know any of this

This is like complaining that fps games are just click weapon, shoot enemy not taking into account that there are layers of skill to it.

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

When in Reality, or well rather from a Story Point of view: The Survivors aren’t the ones in Control! And Never have been… It’s Either Charlie or whatever’s controlling Charlie- And there’s evidence to back that up by having things happen to the world like Rose thorns wrapping around Maxwells statues and crumbling them, or the Briar Hounds, or the little roses you see on the ground every now and again. 

Yeah the players aren't in control, they didn't assist wagstaff or kill fuelweaver or free max from the throne or anything like that

[oCrapaCreeper]

In OG DS I used to think it meant the devs were okay with the player dying, being frustrated, etc so that they eventually fix their mistakes and improve their skill on their own. Die to a frog, lose your world? Too bad, try again and be careful around frogs next time. Eventually you learn this lesson with everything that can harm you, and that's when you "git gud" so to speak.

But now rollback exists and the ghost system heavily neuters death mechanics in general, so I'm not sure what the definition is for DST. Nowadays something cataclysmic can happen in your world and it is just shrugged off, not organically teaching you anything at all.

[00petar00]

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Surely you can see the difference between being able to spawn as many copies of Deerclops as you want back to back to amass infinite eyeballs and a small indie studio not having the resources to properly make a completely realistic world in every single regard. 

Flare was one of my favorite additions, Deerclops spawns once a year and yet there can be 6 or more players on the server, it really sucks when a player doesn't have the best item for spring and summer.

Why should players be punished for playing together? This is comparable to there being only a one walrus camp and 6 players, there is a reason a lot of people want the setpiece to be guaranteed to spawn.

Also Deerclops spawning once a year is an issue in late game where it matters to me even more, I can kill FW 3 times a year and yet I would only be able to make 1 houndius shootius, most setups I use require a lot of them.

It is a monumental task to require of a player to play a full year to get a single houndius, this isn't a bearger bin that you only need to have one and even for the items in beta players didn't want to have to wait a year for a single item.

I think that it is very likely for ice crystaleyezer to receive changes and it may become a go-to for wildfire protection, we should be able to get as many as we want if we put the effort in.

One year in DST is over 9 hours.. Time gating isn't fun.

[HowlVoid]

It means it's difficult to a lot of people, especially if you're new and are going in blind.

And it is.

I don't think it was ever meant to be taken literally though. It's just a hook for a survival game. 

[Szczuku]

On 10/18/2023 at 3:26 AM, Dextops said:

uncompromising is a vague term which is quite a big problem imo, because people will argue about things being "uncompromising" while having different definitions of it. I also rarely see it used well during an actual argument in general which is why i've begun trying to stray away from using it.

Yeah, it's especially annoying when people use it to try and shut down any and all discussions regarding making the game more challenging. Or to make fun of people who want the game to be more difficult

[Dextops]

5 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Yeah, it's especially annoying when people use it to try and shut down any and all discussions regarding making the game more challenging. Or to make fun of people who want the game to be more difficult

Was this not a clear joke how does this relate to anything else said in your post when the thread this was posted in doesn’t relate to any of what you said????

[Jakepeng99]

8 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Yeah, it's especially annoying when people use it to try and shut down any and all discussions regarding making the game more challenging. Or to make fun of people who want the game to be more difficult

Wasnt this just sarcasm? It is pretty obvious, and the context makes it even more obvious (i cant find the message)

oh nvm found the context.

[grm9]

On 10/18/2023 at 2:43 PM, Cheggf said:

I don't think they've ever called Don't Starve Together an uncompromising game

When you're signing in, at the bottom of the screen slightly to the left it is called an uncompromising game.

[Shuckster]

It's just a hook that people put WAY too much stock in.

[MoonWormwood]

On 10/21/2023 at 8:58 AM, Szczuku said:

Or to make fun of people who want the game to be more difficult

except was never said against suggestions to really raise difficulty, only for dumb suggestions regarding mechanics that doesnt affect in any way the people that defend them and only annoy without adding difficulty or a challenge for the player base that actually would interact with it lol

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, MoonWormwood said:

except was never said against suggestions to really raise difficulty, only for dumb suggestions regarding mechanics that doesnt affect in any way the people that defend them and only annoy without adding difficulty or a challenge for the player base that actually would interact with it lol

They literally added a phase 2 to Bearger where it goes from only attacking food sources to becoming Deerclops 2.0, where it now effectively attacks anything it comes close to, including spider dens, Brightshades? & of course all your base structures with a hilarious Super Mario Bros Butt Slam attack & yet it just isn’t enough for you people…

I want new weather effects.. updated mob behaviors in that weather etc.. if Klei can add eating animations to Vargs, then cool stuff like a Beefalo shaking its fur out after it rains sounds reasonable.

actually the new Lunar Hail makes me wish it would do stuff like moontate mobs it hits I think people seem to forget the actual Lore that’s going on in DST dating all the way back to Turn of Tides where a chunk of moon crash lands into the water terraforming mobs it comes into contact with (how sharks become RockJaw sharks or spiders into shattered spiders) it therefore makes sense that if chunks of this “moon” are falling like sharp glass shards and impaling into the games mobs, it would terraform them just as it had sharks, spiders, the funky mobs found in lunar grotto.. etc.

A cool example of Moontation would be if lunar hail hits a school of fish and turns them into Puffer fish who puff up and blow the hail shards out of its body like some kind of super Mario puffer fish.

And with Bearger already doing the iconic buttslam, we’re 3/4ths of the way there.  

[mykenception]

On 10/19/2023 at 1:36 AM, Mike23Ua said:

Swamp Tentacles, Killer Bee Hives, Hound Dens, etc..

Respawning swamp tentacles?

yes please, finally I can keep continuing going the easy way out and have Deerclops get repeatedly slapped by tentacles in the swamp

Killer bee hives too? more honeycombs for my bee farm, yey

and hound dens, I guess we get more hound teeth for the howlitzer, I'm down for it

[Frosty_Mentos]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:08 PM, Cheggf said:

Surely you can see the difference between being able to spawn as many copies of Deerclops as you want back to back to amass infinite eyeballs and a small indie studio not having the resources to properly make a completely realistic world in every single regard. 

They're working up to that in DST which I'm happy for. Hoping to see more of since much of renewability been increased drastically.

On the note of the mentioned difference in scope of what DST is compared to DS there's a big hour difference to what events you can experience and things you can be busy with till you figure things out and run out of that content I find it rather fair we got revivals and rollbacks as if we account of each player joining a world it's the combined amount of hours that hurts when playing and losing a world. While many would abuse the rollback and revive mechanics we still can get caught by something dumb or our own dumb or unaware actions to keep dying.

 

The game still doesn't hold your hand and is harsh if you don't perfect your movements and strategy or get too rusty, but it at least it's respectful of the time we put into it so we can keep trying.

[MoonWormwood]

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

They literally added a phase 2 to Bearger where it goes from only attacking food sources to becoming Deerclops 2.0, where it now effectively attacks anything it comes close to, including spider dens, Brightshades? & of course all your base structures with a hilarious Super Mario Bros Butt Slam attack & yet it just isn’t enough for you people…

I want new weather effects.. updated mob behaviors in that weather etc.. if Klei can add eating animations to Vargs, then cool stuff like a Beefalo shaking its fur out after it rains sounds reasonable.

actually the new Lunar Hail makes me wish it would do stuff like moontate mobs it hits I think people seem to forget the actual Lore that’s going on in DST dating all the way back to Turn of Tides where a chunk of moon crash lands into the water terraforming mobs it comes into contact with (how sharks become RockJaw sharks or spiders into shattered spiders) it therefore makes sense that if chunks of this “moon” are falling like sharp glass shards and impaling into the games mobs, it would terraform them just as it had sharks, spiders, the funky mobs found in lunar grotto.. etc.

A cool example of Moontation would be if lunar hail hits a school of fish and turns them into Puffer fish who puff up and blow the hail shards out of its body like some kind of super Mario puffer fish.

And with Bearger already doing the iconic buttslam, we’re 3/4ths of the way there.  

???

btw, bearger makes noises way before spawning which gives you room to go to a safe place and you can teleport it in case it spawned in a bad place. That is the good potential destuction that could be added, punishing the player for being dumb but free destruction because few simple mind players wants to see trees being chopped and animals being murder without counter action because looks cOOl OmG!!1!1!! makes 0 sense in terms of gameplay and challenge

[chirsg]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:03 AM, GenomeSquirrel said:

Mario Lost Levels

I heard lost levels was hard for the wrong reasons. Apparently the mechanics are just hostile against the player to begin with. 

 

It's fine to have a difficult game, but flesh out the mechanics and controls fully.

I think it's safe to say we currently have a problem with the mechanics. Not the BIGGEST problem, but I can swear that it wasn't the way it was pre character reworks.