With late game becoming easier and easier, here are some ideas from uncompromising mode to make the late game harder

[EatenCheetos]

All these new late game items make surviving the constant considerably easier, so here are some (non combat) ideas to reverse the scales back. These ideas are all taken from the brilliant (but a bit overturned) uncompromising mod.

Autumn: rat raids. Basically if a large number of items are left on the ground or rot is left in containers, rats will raid your base and steal stuff. I like this because it rewards keeping a clean base and keeps autumn generally pretty easy.

Winter: Blizzards and snow piles. Not much to say other than these have such a cool vibe and make winter have that gritty harsh feeling.

Spring: Giant tornados and cave flooding. These mechanics are so cool, and the implementation in the mod just looks beautiful.

Summer: Smog, heat waves, and pyre nettles. The important one here is pyre nettles, as it removed basing in the caves from being an easy way to get around summer.

These mechanics could all start the second year at low frequencies, then ramp up further and further during the third and fourth year. With this, instead of difficulty ramping stopping after just 100 days, it would stop ramping after 280 days and late game would seem fresh and interesting.

[Mike23Ua]

It’s too late..

[Capybara007]

18 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s too late..

Dont be dramatic dude

[Auth]

I’m a very big fan of challenges that get harder the longer the world goes on, assuming the capability of dealing with said threats scales to a decent degree as well. I like what uncomp does but I’d like to see more unique takes on such challenges if Klei got around to it. My biggest sorrow is that we never got “Through the Ages” or whatever it was called and got “A New Reign” instead.

18 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s too late..

Mike, someone disagreed with you. People disagree with me all the time. You don’t need to go on a villain arc.

[Mike23Ua]

People disagreeing with my opinions is fine, what’s NOT fine is being told to go play Dont starve if I want the challenges of Dont Starve.

Did I miss a huge Memo here??? Did Klei Specifically state that instead of making Super Mario Bros Wonder that they’re going to instead focus on a new path and create Mario Kart?

Thats my problem… people get up in arms when I suggest even the mildest little feature that has been present in the Franchise in the past, but for one reason or another… (likely popularity & all that razzmatazz) Can’t exist in DST?

I really enjoyed Shipwrecked & Hamlet, I enjoyed having small creatures or mobs spawn out of the things I was chopping, mining, searching, plucking, etc.. it always gave me something to always be on my toes & on the look out for (unlike DST..)

With DST you only need to survive Hound/DepthWorm Waves, The 4 Weather Seasons, and 2 not so optional seasonal bosses that come to challenge you directly.

For whatever reason DST took a different development path than DS or it’s DLCs, gone are the map based puzzles of needing to lower & raise one’s sanity to pass barricades, gone are the Chokepoints full of baddies that require armoring up and running through cause your not gonna be able to fight 15+ pig torch pigs, gone are the small mobs that suck up entire ponds and so they have to spawn in a new area.

Instead- DST has focused almost entirely exclusively on Raid Bosses, and even the content that ISN’T focusing on a raid boss.. guess what? Yup- Leads to a Raid Boss!

Sure the Archives Puzzle is cool & all, the Lunar Grotto is cute, but what does it all lead up to? Oh yeah that’s right gathering parts to build an alter to summon yet another raid boss.

And after you do that? You might finally get some new mobs and weather hazards to start spawning in your world, that can’t truly be treated as a threat or a hazard if they have to go out of their way to prevent even slightly mildly inconveniencing the player.

[CuteC]

1 hour ago, EatenCheetos said:

 

All these new late game items make surviving the constant considerably easier, so here are some (non combat) ideas to reverse the scales back. These ideas are all taken from the brilliant (but a bit overturned) uncompromising mod.

Autumn: rat raids. Basically if a large number of items are left on the ground or rot is left in containers, rats will raid your base and steal stuff. I like this because it rewards keeping a clean base and keeps autumn generally pretty easy.

Winter: Blizzards and snow piles. Not much to say other than these have such a cool vibe and make winter have that gritty harsh feeling.

Spring: Giant tornados and cave flooding. These mechanics are so cool, and the implementation in the mod just looks beautiful.

Summer: Smog, heat waves, and pyre nettles. The important one here is pyre nettles, as it removed basing in the caves from being an easy way to get around summer.

These mechanics could all start the second year at low frequencies, then ramp up further and further during the third and fourth year. With this, instead of difficulty ramping stopping after just 100 days, it would stop ramping after 280 days and late game would seem fresh and interesting.

I am unfamiliar with uncompromising mode, tornados sound quite frustrating to deal with and I'm unsure how cave flooding works, if I had to guess it constantly makes you wet and slows you down.

Smog? Where is it coming from? Perhaps instead you could use the thing void rifts do but well I am not sure how.

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

People disagreeing with my opinions is fine, what’s NOT fine is being told to go play Dont starve if I want the challenges of Dont Starve.

Did I miss a huge Memo here??? Did Klei Specifically state that instead of making Super Mario Bros Wonder that they’re going to instead focus on a new path and create Mario Kart?

Thats my problem… people get up in arms when I suggest even the mildest little feature that has been present in the Franchise in the past, but for one reason or another… (likely popularity & all that razzmatazz) Can’t exist in DST?

I really enjoyed Shipwrecked & Hamlet, I enjoyed having small creatures or mobs spawn out of the things I was chopping, mining, searching, plucking, etc.. it always gave me something to always be on my toes & on the look out for (unlike DST..)

With DST you only need to survive Hound/DepthWorm Waves, The 4 Weather Seasons, and 2 not so optional seasonal bosses that come to challenge you directly.

For whatever reason DST took a different development path than DS or it’s DLCs, gone are the map based puzzles of needing to lower & raise one’s sanity to pass barricades, gone are the Chokepoints full of baddies that require armoring up and running through cause your not gonna be able to fight 15+ pig torch pigs, gone are the small mobs that suck up entire ponds and so they have to spawn in a new area.

Instead- DST has focused almost entirely exclusively on Raid Bosses, and even the content that ISN’T focusing on a raid boss.. guess what? Yup- Leads to a Raid Boss!

Sure the Archives Puzzle is cool & all, the Lunar Grotto is cute, but what does it all lead up to? Oh yeah that’s right gathering parts to build an alter to summon yet another raid boss.

And after you do that? You might finally get some new mobs and weather hazards to start spawning in your world, that can’t truly be treated as a threat or a hazard if they have to go out of their way to prevent even slightly mildly inconveniencing the player.

Klei stopped adding destructive mechanics because dst is a game you play in a single world, unlike ds where you abandon the previous barren world and go to the next one to raid its resources.

People absolutely despise losing progress and having that constantly is a recipe for disaster, which is why adding destructive mechanics is not a good idea and if they do get added then they have to be reasonable and also have a way to be countered.

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Instead- DST has focused almost entirely exclusively on Raid Bosses, and even the content that ISN’T focusing on a raid boss.. guess what? Yup- Leads to a Raid Boss!

I know people are gonna mock this but I've seen many casual players have this issue with this game as well if your not into boss rushing or megabasing there's not much else going on pre rift it's likely why there's a growing base of players upset that you are forced to kill raid bosses to turn on the rifts to begin with since post rift is actually the first time klei has started introducing meaningful new survival mechanics that actually impact your survival in a long time. They look at this new content and say why should they care since most of them will never experience it. Sure that's not really a problem for most of us here since we're skilled enough to get to the endgame or play in our own worlds where we can turn it on from the start but there's definitely a growing desire for content that actually matters.

1 minute ago, CuteC said:

Klei stopped adding destructive mechanics because dst is a game you play in a single world, unlike ds where you abandon the previous barren world and go to the next one to raid its resources.

People absolutely despise losing progress and having that constantly is a recipe for disaster, which is why adding destructive mechanics is not a good idea and if they do get added then they have to be reasonable and also have a way to be countered.

They never stopped adding destructive mechanics though and while people hate losing progress they hate stagnation even more.

[Flarezen]

This has to be some sort of joke

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, CuteC said:

I am unfamiliar with uncompromising mode, tornados sound quite frustrating to deal with and I'm unsure how cave flooding works, if I had to guess it constantly makes you wet and slows you down.

Smog? Where is it coming from? Perhaps instead you could use the thing void rifts do but well I am not sure how.

Klei stopped adding destructive mechanics because dst is a game you play in a single world, unlike ds where you abandon the previous barren world and go to the next one to raid its resources.

People absolutely despise losing progress and having that constantly is a recipe for disaster, which is why adding destructive mechanics is not a good idea and if they do get added then they have to be reasonable and also have a way to be countered.

Once upon a long time ago, (before Klei sold majority shares to Tencent, & Before ZarkLord was hired as Klei Developer) there was a thread that frequently popped up onto the forums where players were desiring an Uncompromising Mode, (not to be confused with the Uncompromising Mod that Zark previously worked on prior to becoming a Dev)

The TL:DR is that thread became a heated debate over the game being too easy/too hard.

However- some highly intelligent people came up with a Mid-Ground Solution, they quite reasonably wanted Klei to incorporate their own ideas of what an Uncompromising Mode should be Into the game and offer that up as it’s own World Gen Preset (like how we have Relaxed, Survival, Lights Out & A Taste of Terraria presets)

What this means without turning this post into a massive text book- is that content within the game as well as mob/mechanic behaviors, would be toggled to be On/Off or More or Less Frequent.

For Example: Maybe Klei feels healing by eating butterfly wings is too noobish so on their version of Uncompromising mode, Butterflies simply don’t spawn at all.

Now with all that said: Any features Klei adds to a “uncompromising mode” will likely be Toggleable,

So like for example: you can pick and choose what parts of the mode you enjoy, while leaving toggled off the parts you hates entire existence.

So maybe you enjoy a new Mob, or Boss, but you hate the exploding moon frog rain that the mode also comes with.

Everything I’ve fought for on these forums has been to get that uncompromising mode (or at least a mode half as challenging as DS & it’s DLCs were) added into the game so that players can pick and choose the parts of the mode they want to toggle on, while leaving off the stuff that irritates them.

Problem is we can’t get ANY CONTENT that Irritates ANYONE or mildly dents up their precious base- Because they want ALL Content released to bend to their specific playstyle- so that pipeline dream of mine to have an actual Uncompromising mode Where I can choose what parts of the mode I want to add to my day to day gameplay while Opting out of some harder/uninteresting stuff?? 
 

Yeah we can’t have that.

[EatenCheetos]

Here’s some more details on the uncompromising mode mechanics that I mentioned:

Blizzards / Snow Piles

When entering a Blizzard, the player's Field of Vision will instantly be limited, disabling the ability to see anything but a small area around the character. Additionally, movement speed will be reduced by 60%.

In order to avoid becoming blinded in the Blizzard, one must do one of the following:

• * Wear Desert Goggles or Moggles.
• * Have a torch equipped.
• * Stand near a wall or a tree.
• * Stand near a fueled campfire or dwarf star
•  
• During Blizzards Snow Piles will accumulate near player made structures, disabling them (they can be dug up with a shovel). Fire Pits will prevent Snow Piles from appearing around them. 

Tornados / Cave Flooding

• * Every few days in Spring, a Tornado will spawn. It creates heavy rain around them, causing players in a large radius around itself to have a higher 100% water protection cap. You need 150% waterproofing to avoid the heavy rain.
• * It also creates whirlpools at sea, which move non-anchored boats.
• * Emits magic lightning randomly around itself and in a larger radius from it with less frequency.
• * Harvests Plants near it.
• * Digs up stuff that can be dug up. Ignores pickable plants.
• * Chop down trees.
• * Suck up items and throw them away.
• * Deals damage to non-players close to it.
• * Damages the caves, following the path of the Tornado, spawning waterfalls that will flood part of the caves temporarily.

Smog / Heat Waves / Pyre Nettles

• Smog
  • * Burning plants during Summer releases large quantities of smoke.
  • * Smog moves with the wind, reduces player max health, hurts and panics insects.

• Heat Waves
  • * Wildfires are limited to heat waves only. Can only target plants and are significantly more common.
  • * World temperature increases by 1.66×.

• Pyre Nettles
  • * Pyre Nettles spawn in the caves throughout Summer, and grow with increased heat.

[MondayNight]

"Uncompromising Mode" at its core is anti elaborate base-building (main dev even stated this recently, that base-builders aren't their target audience). The mod is heavily Survival-inclined. All above described mechanics would savage anything camp-related that goes beyond 2-3 research stations "thrown" randomly around a Firepit and Furnace as inkling for "base". If anything, it caters to the Semi-/Nomad Survivalist. Such destruction limits by a large margin any other play-style, not to mention it invalidates "mega-base" completely. For bulk player-base even if considering post-Rifts progress-only such an extreme approach is not desirable. A middle ground is needed, to have the most amount of play-style options. Or have separation, akin Wilderness vs Endless. If KLei ever decides on such a route, perhaps Wilderness would be its medium. Maybe.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Once upon a long time ago, ("----------------", & Before ZarkLord was hired as Klei Developer)

Mike delete this part please on the off chance someone makes a dumb rant about that company...

[Valase]

I'd like to begin with: This post should be in suggestions and feedback.

Some of these mechanics would not go very far for the following reasons:

Autumn:Rot piles up naturally, especially on megabases;

Spring: A tornado would not be very kind to bases, maybe if it had a long warning phase. The cave flooding is cool tho.

Also they could start later (after a certain threshould of bosses are killed).

 

But the ideas are good!

[Mysterious box]

36 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

"Uncompromising Mode" at its core is anti elaborate base-building (main dev even stated this recently, that base-builders aren't their target audience). The mod is heavily Survival-inclined. All above described mechanics would savage anything camp-related that goes beyond 2-3 research stations "thrown" randomly around a Firepit and Furnace as inkling for "base". If anything, it caters to the Semi-/Nomad Survivalist. Such destruction limits by a large margin any other play-style, not to mention it invalidates "mega-base" completely. For bulk player-base even if considering post-Rifts progress-only such an extreme approach is not desirable. A middle ground is needed, to have the most amount of play-style options. Or have separation, akin Wilderness vs Endless. If KLei ever decides on such a route, perhaps Wilderness would be its medium. Maybe.

Are you speaking from experience or are you just assuming that I can't say I've played super long term on a uncompromising server but what he's described so far doesn't seem to be too destructive unless there's something I'm missing in fact assuming heat waves replace wildfires it seems less destructive? I'm not trying to antagonize I'm legitimately asking. 

3 minutes ago, Valase said:

Spring: A tornado would not be very kind to bases, maybe if it had a long warning phase. The cave flooding is cool tho.

Does the tornado destroy structures?

[maradyne]

I'd love to see a new player get Tornado'd.

 

That's all the input I'm giving.

[Popian]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

For whatever reason DST took a different development path than DS or it’s DLCs, gone are the map based puzzles of needing to lower & raise one’s sanity to pass barricades, gone are the Chokepoints full of baddies that require armoring up and running through cause your not gonna be able to fight 15+ pig torch pigs, gone are the small mobs that suck up entire ponds and so they have to spawn in a new area.

The problem with putting single player puzzles in a multiplayer game is that one player can "solve" it before others have a chance to. That's not to say that there can't be a few of these sprinkled around (e.g. clearing Reed Trap, Pearl, burning Monkey Huts) but there are already people not happy with the idea that others can start rifts without needing to coordinate with the rest on the server even with it being a significant amount of time to invest in one sitting.

[CuteC]

1 hour ago, Valase said:

I'd like to begin with: This post should be in suggestions and feedback.

Some of these mechanics would not go very far for the following reasons:

Autumn:Rot piles up naturally, especially on megabases;

Spring: A tornado would not be very kind to bases, maybe if it had a long warning phase. The cave flooding is cool tho.

Also they could start later (after a certain threshould of bosses are killed).

 

But the ideas are good!

I am unsure on the rot thing because it is a good resource to have and simply not being allowed to have it ever seems kinda bad, it shouldn't count if it is storaged.

58 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Does the tornado destroy structures?

Well it's a tornado so we assumed it will just throw every structure it touches to next century.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, CuteC said:

Well it's a tornado so we assumed it will just throw every structure it touches to next century.

That doesn't seem logical though from a gameplay perspective and what he/she said about them doesn't even imply that to be the case. Honestly it feels like people are too deeply bias about the mod and just assume the worst about anything they see concerning it.

I would argue people could stand to actually try the mod before condemning it.

[CuteC]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

That doesn't seem logical though from a gameplay perspective and what he/she said about them doesn't even imply that to be the case.

It really doesn't but I am used to hearing great ideas such as let everything burn all at once, so I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, CuteC said:

It really doesn't but I am used to hearing great ideas such as let everything burn all at once, so I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

No problem honestly while I again will mention I haven't played the mod long term as I don't play mods much there were some rebalances that were actually based around improving existing mechanics to make them more useful like sleeping being much faster (with Walter's tent even being able to restore lost max hp) as well as giving players more incentives to use lesser used items like traps and such.

[Theukon-dos]

If I had a nickel for every time someone asked for Uncompromising Mode features to be added to the base game while simultaneously making them and the mod sound as awful as possible, I'd have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.

[-Variant]

Hi, Uncompromising Mode co-founder here. I'd like to input my statement.

Ever since helping pick up the mod in its infancy, I've wanted what it would eventually turn into to be the standard across the vanilla game.
This dream, alongside the mod itself, has severely changed over the years. 

I'll straight up confess, I get a bit sea sick whenever I see people demanding Klei to follow in our footsteps. Not saying this is happening here, but it happens a lot.
I do love knowing people enjoy the project enough to want it in vanilla, but I don't imagine the thought of its implementation is thought out enough.

Day 1 of Uncomp development and current day are nothing alike, I want to clarify. Our views have changed, what started as something that could be described as a 'spite project' has since changed drastically to be something more along the lines of doing something we enjoy for the people who enjoy the project.

Uncompromising mode is currently a MAJOR far cry from where vanilla DST stands. Some people love it, some don't. Those that do use the mod, simple as that.
On that note, I can confidently say that MANY of our changes, from very minor things like buffing underused items and recipe costs, to entire mechanics have gotten into vanilla. This is amazing, it shows we're on similar putting and the folks that enjoy the project get to see some of the nicer aspects make it into vanilla.
(The team's looking into make a dedicated list of stuff that made it in, it's getting rather expansive, it's honestly super funny, if not a bit jarring!)

This doesn't mean that everything fits in, most certainly not. There's a large amount I couldn't fathom being in vanilla, and I'm not entirely sure I'd want to see them outside the mod either. A lot of Uncomp's changes rely on... well, Uncomp's changes! We've buffed nearly endless of the lesser used items, which in turn help counter the new set of harsher threats that the mod adds. Simply slapping these into vanilla would be disastrous. 

I make this huge ramble so I can something I can link back to for future reference, anyhow, one last thing.
I want to point out that we do try and make threats as fair as possible. Some will obviously disagree, but I wish to be living proof that we do try. 
We try not to make destructive elements that force people out of basing, either. I know a lot of folks think that in particular.

[Reiko24]

10 hours ago, EatenCheetos said:

 

All these new late game items make surviving the constant considerably easier, so here are some (non combat) ideas to reverse the scales back. These ideas are all taken from the brilliant (but a bit overturned) uncompromising mod.

Autumn: rat raids. Basically if a large number of items are left on the ground or rot is left in containers, rats will raid your base and steal stuff. I like this because it rewards keeping a clean base and keeps autumn generally pretty easy.

Winter: Blizzards and snow piles. Not much to say other than these have such a cool vibe and make winter have that gritty harsh feeling.

Spring: Giant tornados and cave flooding. These mechanics are so cool, and the implementation in the mod just looks beautiful.

Summer: Smog, heat waves, and pyre nettles. The important one here is pyre nettles, as it removed basing in the caves from being an easy way to get around summer.

These mechanics could all start the second year at low frequencies, then ramp up further and further during the third and fourth year. With this, instead of difficulty ramping stopping after just 100 days, it would stop ramping after 280 days and late game would seem fresh and interesting.

So basically climate change in DST, shouldn't have used so much coal for your campfire...

[Valase]

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Does the tornado destroy structures?

I meant dragging items on the ground. People really hate that (there is a reason why some items are in the "no pick" list for Lazy forager and poly rogers).

[chirsg]

I'm so tempted to start uncompromising mode just so I can cheese the everloving hell out of it.

Base destruction leads to falling back on very rudimentary base designs.

 

Do any of you know how easy it is to live off monster meat and monster meat alone?

 

It's seriously a cake walk. Insanity is literally a blessing that when day count starts to rise, you spend far less time insane.

 

Webber is a character that can literally survive on a single tile and base destruction more or less demands such a minimalist playstyle to be able to move on with a loss of a base that takes a grand total of 2 minutes to build.

 

 

"Oh, my 2 minute base was destroyed. This game is so fun. I'm going to invest another 2 minutes to repairing my base. Everyone else should fall under the same standard. My base gets destroyed, everyone else's base get's destroyed. What's that? Someone actually spent 3 seasons building their base? Noob. Adapt to the 2 minute base. You will eat ze bugs, you will own nothing and you will be happy"

 

Yes. EVERYONE can do uncompromising survival, and that type of gameplay to me personally is just so miserable it's unreal. To me, playing like that is like running a marathon in wet socks.

Sure, some of you are able to tolerate it, but man, a lot of you push it upon others to wear wet socks and like it.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but my first experience with the new bosses was as organic as you could get. I didn't open up a test world to console command them in to figure out their weaknesses and I went in blind with standard boss prep and actually had a blast because my ultimate goal was not to die and to do so was failure and I enjoyed myself a lot.

 

Difficulty in this game for the most part are milestones to be conquered.

 

Opinions here make me think that a lot of the uncompromising mob would be the same type of people to sleep exposed in the wild without a mosquito net in a malaria ridden area because it's too easy to be out of reach from arbitrary mortal danger.