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So I've  been thinking since the latest armor set what if instead of a choice between just lunar and shadow we get 4 choices instead as time goes on. Lunar, Wagstaff, Shadow, or Charlie? When you think about it Wagstaff isn't working for lunar he's working to exploit it and Charlie is a unwilling participant on her side of things as far as we can tell. Techinically we might even get a 2nd Shadow aligned npc return of nightmare werepig maybe? Assuming Charlie is stuck in the full Shadow route but this Is just a theory.

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45 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

so it'll be a choice between Them, alter, charlie, wagstaff

wagstaff is pretty chill tbh, im supporting him

Alter is one of Them you silly goose

Also I just wanna say Charlie works for Them and wagstaff uses the "moon"'s power. "Moon" was kinda killed after the cc fight so besides wormwood I don't think we'll be getting powers from it. Maybe WX cause he dislikes wagstaff but other then that I see no good reason.

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Charlie and Shadows are definitely on the same side, and it’s somewhat naive, to think that she can or even wants to be turned to normal, she probably doesn’t even remember what being human is like after thousands of years of whatever omnipresent like, murder filled existence she has. With the equivalent of Alter having no interest in the Constant, she’s their leader.

 

Wagstaff and Lunar are definitely enemies, we may be somewhat on Wagstaffs side, and while Lunar was once somewhat neutral, killing their champion started a second war.

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1 hour ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Charlie and Shadows are definitely on the same side, and it’s somewhat naive, to think that she can or even wants to be turned to normal, she probably doesn’t even remember what being human is like after thousands of years of whatever omnipresent like, murder filled existence she has. With the equivalent of Alter having no interest in the Constant, she’s their leader.

 

Wagstaff and Lunar are definitely enemies, we may be somewhat on Wagstaffs side, and while Lunar was once somewhat neutral, killing their champion started a second war.

It's why I gave an out where Werepig could potientally become the 4th instead as he's basically the Wagstaff of the shadow side.

That being said while I don't suddenly think she's gonna have a sudden hero arc I thought it was made clear she wants to be the one in control she just lost the battles of wills at least that's how I interpreted the struggle she had with them.

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For me it's always been two sides, Charlie and Wagstaff.

The two Eye Thingy were obviously not very interested in the fight between mortals. Their only responds to human activity is Alter drop Celestial Champion to stop siphon, but that's just an automatic mechanism like the immune system. And Shadow eye thingy doesn't even look at Charlie. If Wagstaff and Charlie can't get their attention, I don't know what the survivors can do to get these God-like beings to work with them.

 

An interesting fact is that if the Shadow creatures we see in the game are transformed from the ancients, they are actually victims of Shadow eye thingy and may not be on the same side as the Shadow eye thingy. AFW is a typical example.

Edited by Cassielu
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16 hours ago, lenship2 said:

so it'll be a choice between Them, alter, charlie, wagstaff

wagstaff is pretty chill tbh, im supporting him

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about , the dude has no chill

He's busy all the time messing with something or someone

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2 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

What the hell is even going on? What is wagstaff doing? What is Charlie doing? Is Charlie even aware wagstaff exists? Does wagstaff even care about Charlie?

Wagstaff is using the lunar energy to invent... something?

I'm not sure Charlie knows about his existence besides attacking him in singleplayer but she likely doesn't know about the "moon" thing considering she stays in the shadows

Charlie is somehow trying to separate herself from Cyclum and escape and possibly get everyone out if the constant but most the times you see her its the shadow side

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Killing each side's thralls isn't really helping them, you know. And what do you mean by Charlie not being in control? Based on the Stageplay it was her decision to "set Them free", with Them being the big eye, amongst other things.

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1 hour ago, Retepeter said:

Charlie is somehow trying to separate herself from Cyclum and escape and possibly get everyone out if the constant but most the times you see her its the shadow side

Is there anything to support that she's actively trying to separate? It definitely seems like she's not in control and would likely take the out if given the chance or is becoming a more willing participant in using the survivors for her own ends. But it just seems like they're just using her appearance to dupe the survivors into helping them. Though based on the throne situation it's possible they still both only have half control.

Edited by Mysterious box
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3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Is there anything to support that she's actively trying to separate?

If she wants to do this, she must need a magic to "split her mind into pieces".

That's what Maxwell is good at.

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This actually reminds me of a sudo third alignment  that would  be produced when Webber’s two sides pick different alignments and the unnatural energy that fused them would stabilize the discord between the two forces 

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The third side could be the "forge". According to the remarks of the commander of the forge, they want to get rid of the shadow throne and destroy it. They are also preparing for a war with the shadows like the moon.

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On 10/10/2023 at 4:05 AM, Auth said:

This thread is really just reminding me of what a terrible state the clarity and public understanding of the game's lore is

"Metheus is the name of the Ancient Queen!"

"No, Metheus is the Ancient King!"

"His name is Fuelweaver"

"No it's Cyclum, Metheus is the eye in the gateway"

"No that's Them"

"Them is the moon and the eye"

"But the moon is called Alter"

"But there was the Return of Them arc and only the moon returned"

Essentially the type of discussion that would happen if some dst fans that I've seen around the net would begin talking about the lore

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29 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

"No, this is Patrick!"

I've also heard a theory that Maxwell and Charlie were the ancients and just happened to like. Disguise themselves, or something. And that the ancient throne is the same thing as the shadow throne. I guess that just makes fuelweaver a golem with violent sentimental feelings?

The mystery is only fun when you can reasonably filter the information given. As of late it just feels like we keep getting names and things thrown at us; leaving, at least me anyways, feeling too burnt out to bother theorizing, and just sitting around waiting for them to flat out spell it out for us as there's no real build up to the answers.

And also, why should I care? Especially with the whole "sides" thing now, where both sides feel either neglectfully distant from the player or purposefully violent as hell, why would I realistically want to pick a side? It's seemingly a war between deities who don't give a crap about us, and the two dopes in charge of sign-ups seem to be, very blatantly, openly manipulating the characters. Hell, Charlie made a big stage play for her twitter callout post against Maxwell and a reveal of her evil plan, yet he still seems to be eager as ever to jump on board for the promise of. Well, nothing was really promised. I guess he just misses his old... height? Gameplay purposes aside, what actual draw is there to want to align oneself with either side?

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28 minutes ago, Auth said:

Gameplay purposes aside, what actual draw is there to want to align oneself with either side?

Secret knowledge and powers probably?

Modern dst or not, the characters have been and will always be flawed people, therefore I wouldn't put it pass them in the slightest to go for an obvious bait. 

Wanda, for example, knew perfectly well what she was signing up for; she just thought she had enough wit to keep outrunning Them

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44 minutes ago, Auth said:

Gameplay purposes aside, what actual draw is there to want to align oneself with either side?

Loads of reasons, a way out being the most obvious one. Think about what the characters want!

Some characters want to stay in the Constant, others not so much.

Alter specifically lured in some characters with the promise of a way out, and then of course the shadow side offers immense power, yadda yadda.
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