Klei, how long are you going to try to ruin my base? And other suggestions

[BB Marioni]

3 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

If it's buffed to protect an entire biome worth of area and its overall range is bigger than the hail range then sure! That ain't going to happen though.

15 x 15 tiles isn't an entire biome. you said that's how large the hail is.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

Have ANY one of you actually experienced one of your mobs becoming extinct or had your entire base obliterated? Your acting like it's this powerful AOE that is killing mobs into extinction all over the map the entire time. They aren't a barrage of meteors being blasted all over the map. Or like a rift opening in the middle of your base. The damage is the equivalent of a rock (small rock not boulder) dropped on your head and only a few drops are actually glass shards in A small area around you. I'm sure if you sit there for day's doing nothing but watch the mob die eventually it'll happen but then that's on you to replace.

This is endgame content it can't be under the same rules that state your base is safe no matter what like the early to mid game. We can't have endgame content and sandbox at the same time. Klei has made the entire game sandbox, now they are working on endgame content. It's weird that we expect our bases to be safe zones in a survival game.

 

Ultimately I agree that end game content in a survival game should be focused on survival. Other players however feel like the end game should be permanent solutions to all the games problems & hazards.

When you attempt to “Ascend” in Ark Survival Evolved the game will literally tell you that if you fail, everything you’ve ever worked towards up to this point will DIE..

Like once you go into the fight to fight the final boss… if you fail, the game deletes everything… not only that but this game was notorious for crashing during this final fight as well.

To me it just seems like people want “EndGame” content to just as easily become like all previous content before it- being that you can reach a point of conquering it permanently and never needing to deal with it again.

for me, that would personally be boring… but to each their own.

[LitulLola]

1 hour ago, xhyom said:

I don't know what we should do then, if rain is a problem, lighting is antifun, wild fire is a problem, rain of frogs ruins my day, meteors make the game unplayable, boulders are even worse, antillion should not exist, hounds kills the game and if they catch fire even worse, brightshades? delete this game. Lightning rod is a band-aid too, along with the scaled furnace and the umbrella.
I really don't know what exactly is supposed to happen in this game, I just see a lot of quotes about possible routes they could have taken, without even briefly mentioning what those routes even look like? How do these updates that focus on survival and at the same time let people stay calmly in their bases without having to leave at any time work?

This is literally the hard mode of the game, and yet they along added purely decorative things, thinking about people who focus on making bases full of things, if you don't want to interact with ANYTHING that makes your gameplay difficult, how about not activating the portals? "Ah but then I won't interact with new things" Well, if you don't like ANY of the new content that is focused on something OTHER than your base I don't think you need a super endgame craft to take care of your base, it's literally optional, if you don't want to be forced to do difficult survival content don't force others to the opposite too, and as always, it is possible to always disable these things, but there is no way to do the opposite and activate something removed.

 

And it's not like a brief rain that causes damage in random areas would RUIN and DESTROY people's bases too, let's be honest...

Thank you! You'd think the whole constant is going to explode from some hail.

[GelatinousCube]

30 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Ultimately I agree that end game content in a survival game should be focused on survival. Other players however feel like the end game should be permanent solutions to all the games problems & hazards.

When you attempt to “Ascend” in Ark Survival Evolved the game will literally tell you that if you fail, everything you’ve ever worked towards up to this point will DIE..

Like once you go into the fight to fight the final boss… if you fail, the game deletes everything… not only that but this game was notorious for crashing during this final fight as well.

To me it just seems like people want “EndGame” content to just as easily become like all previous content before it- being that you can reach a point of conquering it permanently and never needing to deal with it again.

for me, that would personally be boring… but to each their own.

Hey Mike, purely out of curiosity, and just to gauge your actual experience on this whole topic have you actually reached and played through end game content as of yet? 

Have you beaten CC and FW and activated the rifts without simply turning them on in world settings? 

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, xhyom said:

I never said at any point that people should be nomads and have no base, but there is no hardmode survival if nothing happens at your base at any time. I asked how to make an update that focuses on creating challenges in the survival aspect without creating difficulties that come to you. It's not survival if things only happen when you pull a lever in a safe arena away from your things when you are prepared.

Most of the sandbox/survival games I play allow me to sit at base without getting griefed as it simply isn't fun. There can be survival challenges, why isn't hail enough if it deals a lot of damage to the player but it has to kill the mobs? 

1 hour ago, xhyom said:

I agree that simply disabling it is not the best solution in the world, but I don't see any alternative, simply never releasing content for this part of the playerbase, not even after the endgame is even worse. It's not like it's bad or poorly made, it just doesn't appeal to a certain part of the playerbase. For me personally I would like biomes and exploration, but if I have the option of not being affected by it I simply accept not being affected and move on, there will be something for me in the future hopefully. There's a large portion of the playerbase that doesn't fight bosses, and they added two, what are we going to do? Nerf them so they can participate? You can just disable the rain and enjoy everything else that you like, but you can't do the opposite and create a new challenge without modding.

At this point we can see that rifts are going to be the main focus of the development for the next year at the very least along with skill trees and you can't simply tell people to disable or just play the game as is without any updates for a year or longer, it really isn't an option.

Also you haven't said anything about other players wanting to turn it on, this is a multiplayer game and just one player deciding to turn it on and it isn't possible for you to do anything about it except modifying game settings/console commands.

1 hour ago, xhyom said:

I agree that there is a limit, but with solutions to other past problems it is not too much, I would prefer as they said here that there was a drastic change that removed things so that new and more dangerous ones could take their place, but as this is not the case unfortunately I am left with the bland solutions, even though I think this rain is not that relevant, not like the brightshades invading bases in the first days of beta.

That is not happening though, they aren't removing lightning so that we can have other mechanics but just piling up new chores on top of what we currently have to deal with.

48 minutes ago, BB Marioni said:

At first, I thought the idea of the hailstorm being able to hit creatures might be bad. But, realizing that the hail only hits where a player is located, similar to earthquakes, this means you can have an umbralla on standby and deploy them in your gekko pen/ etc whenever a storm hits and you are in that area. Player protection options seem decent enough having umbralla, trees, and umbrella being able to protect you.

That wouldn't help as Umbralla needs to be deployed by the player.

38 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

Have ANY one of you actually experienced one of your mobs becoming extinct or had your entire base obliterated? Your acting like it's this powerful AOE that is killing mobs into extinction all over the map the entire time. They aren't a barrage of meteors being blasted all over the map. Or like a rift opening in the middle of your base. The damage is the equivalent of a rock (small rock not boulder) dropped on your head and only a few drops are actually glass shards in A small area around you. I'm sure if you sit there for day's doing nothing but watch the mob die eventually it'll happen but then that's on you to replace.

 

Obviously we haven't reached that point as beta has just been released and you need to play for hundreds of days until you would even notice but the bigger issue is that some mobs don't heal and grass isn't renewable unless you play on endless.

 

[LitulLola]

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I am so tired of leaving base to escape dealing with mechanics, every summer I have to leave base and stay in caves if I don't build at oasis or place docks and build on them so that I have knobby trees cover it.

Try staying and actually dealing with summer. I base out of the oasis and build flingos. You have to be prepared to be able to fuel them and turn them on when the world first goes red so ur resources don't wither and loose said resource instead of going to the caves.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Frog rain (now even worse) just run around because you can't stop them and they are purely annoying.

Instead of running around use them to kill moosegoose.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Endless waves of brightshades that won't ever be fun to play with for anyone that has the rifts on for a few hundred hours.  No decoration plants or more likely you are not going to use any plant that they target.

I still use all my plants. They are easy to kill and drop amazing loot we need for the new mobs. Your making it sound like 10 just pop up in your base. There is never more than 3 that show up, most of the time I only get 1.

I'm not sure why you don't like dealing with issues but it's a survival game. They have turned the entire game into sandbox gameplay. Now they are working on endgame survival aspect of gameplay you don't have to turn on. I don't see the issue.

[BB Marioni]

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

That wouldn't help as Umbralla needs to be deployed by the player.

and? the hail is where the player is. Isn't that the point of the game? You being prepared for seasonal obstacles? Like wearing an eyebrella when it rains

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Hey Mike, purely out of curiosity, and just to gauge your actual experience on this whole topic have you actually reached and played through end game content as of yet? 

Have you beaten CC and FW and activated the rifts without simply turning them on in world settings? 

With a group of friends who I bought the game for? Absolutely.. Alone by myself? No… and I sure as hell don’t ever plan to either.

If your judging my experience with the game based on my inability to tackle content designed to be fought by multiple players alone, then that’s a poor cast of judgement.

However.. with as many people as I’ve actually bought this game for, when everyone actually has free time I can pull together a group to fight content designed to be tackled by a group.

Really you don’t even need a group.. one Wendy + One Wolfgang is more damage then you’ll EVER ACHIEVE ALONE.

CC isn’t even that hard to fight.. lol provided that your not it’s ONLY TARGET.

Same can be said for all the other multiplayer designed stuff too though- It’s easier to kill Toadstool when you have people who can focus trees and people who can focus boss.

[GelatinousCube]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

With a group of friends who I bought the game for? Absolutely.. Alone by myself? No… and I sure as hell don’t ever plan to either.

If your judging my experience with the game based on my inability to tackle content designed to be fought by multiple players alone, then that’s a poor cast of judgement.

So just to confirm you have beaten both, done pearls tasks and opened rifts the proper way? 

I'm not, just wanted to know if you'd done it yet and how much you've actually experienced the "late/end game" 

Also whether it's designed for multiplayer or not it is easily achieved solo as well. I have done it all solo and it wasn't that hard.

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

lol provided that your not it’s ONLY TARGET.

Not that bad honestly, phase 1 and 2 are fairly straight forward even on console it's just phase 3 that can be a bit killer (on console especially) on your own.

Super mega mode super saiyan crab king is the only fight I've found to be genuinely close to impossible solo on console. He sucks

[00petar00]

18 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

Try staying and actually dealing with summer. I base out of the oasis and build flingos. You have to be prepared to be able to fuel them and turn them on when the world first goes red so ur resources don't wither and loose said resource instead of going to the caves.

I mostly play with them turned on but I have been basing in caves before rifts because of wildfires mostly. Fueling flingomatics isn't viable for anyone with a bigger base and even with a smaller base, why not use knobby trees?

18 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

Instead of running around use them to kill moosegoose.

Waste of time, I can kill moose goose on my own much faster and depending on where your base is, it may be too far away.

18 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

I still use all my plants. They are easy to kill and drop amazing loot we need for the new mobs. Your making it sound like 10 just pop up in your base. There is never more than 3 that show up, most of the time I only get 1.

There is only so many husks you can use over time, If you have any plants or farms they infest you will get much more husks then you need and most of the time 3 will show up.

18 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

I'm not sure why you don't like dealing with issues but it's a survival game. They have turned the entire game into sandbox gameplay. Now they are working on endgame survival aspect of gameplay you don't have to turn on. I don't see the issue.

Most survival/sandbox games allow you to get to sandbox part completely the longer you play. I don't like chores and brightshades/hail are another chore. Endgame survival? this is more like endgame punishment that most players don't want to have to deal with permanently. We are here to have fun and I have enough chores to do IRL that I don't need any more in game.

 

Like I said before, I wouldn't mind hail if it only dealt damage to players and it would be a good survival mechanic, so I am not against survival ramp up over time.

[GelatinousCube]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Same can be said for all the other multiplayer designed stuff too though- It’s easier to kill Toadstool when you have people who can focus trees and people who can focus boss

Ice flingo "cheese" makes it very manageable solo. Honey spice and glass axes are also huge for this fight. I believe it reduces the mushtrees he summons to only need two chops if memory serves correct

[LitulLola]

8 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Obviously we haven't reached that point as beta has just been released and you need to play for hundreds of days until you would even notice but the bigger issue is that some mobs don't heal and grass isn't renewable unless you play on endless.

Then play it on your long-term world so you can see for yourself that it isn't anywhere near as destructive as your making it out to be. And build things that will negate that damage. It's pretty simple.

If you are so afraid of losing grass geckos (only non renewable mob, but you still have 2 entire worlds full of grass tufts) then bundle some grass tufts into some gift wrap. Problem solved. I really don't think u'll need it, you'd have to work pretty hard running all over the world and just standing there for days to kill each heard but ok.

 

[00petar00]

4 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

Then play it on your long-term world so you can see for yourself that it isn't anywhere near as destructive as your making it out to be. And build things that will negate that damage. It's pretty simple.

If you are so afraid of losing grass geckos (only non renewable mob, but you still have 2 entire worlds full of grass tufts) then bundle some grass tufts into some gift wrap. Problem solved. I really don't think u'll need it, you'd have to work pretty hard running all over the world and just standing there for days to kill each heard but ok.

 

Kobby trees? that means I am locked to dock bases that require much more time to set up and the flooring looks ugly.

Bundling grass tufts doesn't do anything as over time it will run out. Do you understand how illogical you sound? if grass gekkos are dying, I'll need to use the grass tufts to replenish them. 

Also other things get killed by hail too and make world feel more empty.

 

There is no good long term soultion for this, its like wildfires but on a smaller scale.

[LitulLola]

23 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I mostly play with them turned on but I have been basing in caves before rifts because of wildfires mostly. Fueling flingomatics isn't viable for anyone with a bigger base and even with a smaller base, why not use knobby trees?

I do have a big base in my 3000+ worlds and I do utilize knobbly tree's but use flingos where they can't reach. I guess I'm excessive because I have a chest for each resource full of gift wrapped boxes full of that resource. No moosegoose isn't hard to kill etc. I was just showing there is a different way to play than just avoid it all. I don't find that fun.

On the rest we'll just agree to disagree...don't think we need another build it once and everything is fine forever. It's still weird that we expect our bases to be safe zones in a survival game.

[Antynomity]

They could always just add giant variants of all trees so we can have protection everywhere if we commit to growing them into giants.

[Mike23Ua]

25 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Like I said before, I wouldn't mind hail if it only dealt damage to players and it would be a good survival mechanic, so I am not against survival ramp up over time.

My problem with that is that it’s just so so so soooooo boring to only ever have to worry about my characters stats.. why dont we just add Dehydration & needing to drink as yet another meter we need to manage for our characters at that point?

It’s part of WHY I’m a Wendy Main, not only do I have to manage Wendy’s Health, but I also have to keep an Eye on Abigail’s and my Beefalo mount.

I’m not just maintaining my own health, hunger, sanity, etc.. I have to look out for my companions as well!

Its why I play the game and horde chester all to myself… I have a storage box pet companion that can actually DIE if it gets attacked enough..

Its why I LOVED the Year of the Carrot update where I could adopt a Carrat pet that could actually starve to death if I don’t feed it or die if I don’t protect it.

It’s why I get Extra Adorable Larvae as a pet or Smallbird.

I have to do more than just manage my own personal status bars.

What your purposing we do with lunar hail (where it only damages you the player..) is like removing the DST boats that need to be repaired when leaking and giving us back the Shipwrecked boats that only acted as Water Shoes.

I for one, want some actual real threats that are going to challenge my resources, and/or potential mob extinction, not just be downgraded to becoming yet another personal status bar I’ll need to manage.

[Capybara007]

Lunar hail does not affect survivalists in the slightlest it just affect people that took the time to build decorative koalaphant pens

Make lunar hail deal 30 damage to players and 1 damage to mobs

If you are against that then you are someone who cares to much about something that isnt their experience, which is douchy

[landromat]

15 hours ago, Evelo said:

I'm all for base disruption. You are in the wild, no place is safe.
This isn't Hamlet after all.

yeah, screw megabases

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

Lunar hail does not affect survivalists in the slightlest it just affect people that took the time to build decorative koalaphant pens

Make lunar hail deal 30 damage to players and 1 damage to mobs

If you are against that then you are someone who cares to much about something that isnt their experience, which is douchy

My glommer will die in 3 irl years from hail. 

Tbh just make it 0 damage and just stun them if it gets lowered to 1. I would miss it killing birds otherwise.

[Mysterious box]

8 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The issue is that you can only have so many chores that players are willing to do, this is not a job and we are supposed to have fun and I know that everyone has different expectations but all of the players I know don't like chores and have been conditioned by the game to just use lighting rods and not see it as one. 

The problem here is everyone has a different level of what they find acceptable I get there is a base of player who want nothing to happen unless you engage with it but there are a base of players who want the opposite you can't just assume because it's not fun for you or that ant new survival mechanics are chores to you that it's going to be a chore to everyone else some people like to test their builds against the elements and come out on top saying yea you threw your best at me but me and my base are still standing.

 

8 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

How many people have just said "Don't activate the rifts?? Why do you do it if you don't enjoy punishment??" When that is the new content and you are supposed to ignore everything else that klei adds to that and DST is also a multiplayer game so you may not even have the option to not activate them if you want to when another player wants to interact with new content and you can't really blame them.

Rifts aren't going to be the end of all pre rift content this content is more focused on survival why shouldn't you be expected to adapt to that when you willing decide to engage with it why does the game need to hold itself back from doing anything because you want it to cater only to your style of play specifically? 

 

8 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The player that doesn't like rifts will be missing out of months of content that developers added, how is this a good solution? Who knows how much more content will be added to rifts in the future too, from my observation it seems like it will take a lot of development time that some players will be forced to ignore completely if they don't want to have more chores added to the game that they can't currently deal with and reach a satisfied enough outcome.

As apposed to the player who isn't interested in megabasing having content tossed into the void or butchered because the more important players say so?

7 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Just to play devils advocate we don't know for sure they will add turning off the hail to world settings.

They mentioned it on stream so I imagine they will but it wouldn't hurt to make a thread to remind them.

[CuteC]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

When you attempt to “Ascend” in Ark Survival Evolved the game will literally tell you that if you fail, everything you’ve ever worked towards up to this point will DIE..

Like once you go into the fight to fight the final boss… if you fail, the game deletes everything… not only that but this game was notorious for crashing during this final fight as well.

I don't think using bad game design and the game being held by duct tape is a good point.

6 hours ago, LitulLola said:

Try staying and actually dealing with summer. I base out of the oasis and build flingos. You have to be prepared to be able to fuel them and turn them on when the world first goes red so ur resources don't wither and loose said resource instead of going to the caves.

I still use all my plants. They are easy to kill and drop amazing loot we need for the new mobs. Your making it sound like 10 just pop up in your base. There is never more than 3 that show up, most of the time I only get 1.

I'm not sure why you don't like dealing with issues but it's a survival game. They have turned the entire game into sandbox gameplay. Now they are working on endgame survival aspect of gameplay you don't have to turn on. I don't see the issue.

I don't like flingos because of their range, the sheer amount you need just for your base to not implode and the constant fueling but I will say that those at least tell you when they are running out and you can refuel them while they're working, unlike the umbrellas.

That is because your world is likely made before the update and they prioritize player placed plants, which they don't count since they were before the update, I also had this happen and 1 is very easy to deal with, but 3 are a nightmare.

The issue is that there is no good solution, and usually in games when you have a mechanic going against you, there's a way to counter it, but the current ones are not very good.

6 hours ago, LitulLola said:

Then play it on your long-term world so you can see for yourself that it isn't anywhere near as destructive as your making it out to be. And build things that will negate that damage. It's pretty simple.

If you are so afraid of losing grass geckos (only non renewable mob, but you still have 2 entire worlds full of grass tufts) then bundle some grass tufts into some gift wrap. Problem solved. I really don't think u'll need it, you'd have to work pretty hard running all over the world and just standing there for days to kill each heard but ok.

 

I am completely aware they won't instantly blow up, my problem is that gekkos will die over them due to the fact they do not regenerate HP, you won't always turn on an umbrella or run away in time.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Kobby trees? that means I am locked to dock bases that require much more time to set up and the flooring looks ugly.

Not only that but big trees are really bad optimized, I have a base in a world with a really big dock, my friend has a really good laptop and I have a toaster, both of us lag a LOT in there.

[gamehun20]

2 minutes ago, CuteC said:

I am completely aware they won't instantly blow up, my problem is that gekkos will die over them due to the fact they do not regenerate HP, you won't always turn on an umbrella or run away in time

Can't you just heal them with salves like weretransformations and catapults

[CuteC]

1 minute ago, gamehun20 said:

Can't you just heal them with salves like weretransformations and catapults

I am not sure but trust me it's better to not even walk near them, not only is it hard to get to them but those things are very likely to glitch through walls the second you step anywhere near them. We have a pen set up specifically so this doesn't happen and it still happened, which is why we use the  polly roger's hat instead.

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, CuteC said:

I am not sure but trust me it's better to not even walk near them, not only is it hard to get to them but those things are very likely to glitch through walls the second you step anywhere near them. We have a pen set up specifically so this doesn't happen and it still happened, which is why we use the  polly roger's hat instead.

Have you ever considered that if your mobs are glitching through walls that Klei never actually intended for you to capture them as pets? I mean there’s even a Wagstaff notes for the new beta that seems to heavily imply grass geckos are going to get moon mutations in a future update.

If I had to take a wild guess.. they’ll transform into Grass Gators, the two look like some sort of Pokémon evolutionary stage AND let’s not forget the entire concept of DSTs ocean-

A chunk of moon (later revealed to be an eldritch god) breaks off and crash lands into the ocean, transforming and changing things around it in the process. 
So it’s not Unrealistic to think that Grass Geckos will morph into Grass Gators, or maybe even the unimplemented Fumi-Gators (that release toxic fumes)

But there’s some pretty hard evidence that grass geckos will be effected in some capacity in the future.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wagstaff notes for the new beta that seems to heavily imply grass geckos are going to get moon mutations in a future update.

You just made me realize grass geckos may become hostile creatures who attack walls...oh god we're gonna be back here again when this goes through aren't we....