Klei, how long are you going to try to ruin my base? And other suggestions

[GelatinousCube]

1 minute ago, LitulLola said:

Sorry it's early and I've spent the last 2000 days ensuring that they don't spawn on my world because they kill you with lag. But "because I don't want too" isn't a great argument. We are not getting anywhere so I'm done with this thread. We will never agree on it plain and simple

Yeah so your entire argument on this matter was based on a misconception/mistake thinking they're infinite when they are not.

Also kind of nasty that you're so desperate for hail to damage them when you personally literally don't even use or utilize them, just wow.. 

Avoiding tedium with zero rewards that stops you from enjoying the game and takes up valuable time isn't as simple as I don't want to.

For the best, we will not. 

[gamehun20]

4 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Yeah so your entire argument on this matter was based on a misconception/mistake thinking they're infinite when they are not.

Also kind of nasty that you're so desperate for hail to damage them when you personally literally don't even use or utilize them, just wow.. 

Avoiding tedium with zero rewards that stops you from enjoying the game and takes up valuable time isn't as simple as I don't want to.

For the best, we will not. 

I think i just had an idea, what's the current list of creatures that are kept at base and get damaged?

[CuteC]

3 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

I think i just had an idea, what's the current list of creatures that are kept at base and get damaged?

Currently the useful creatures I have are goats, gekkos, gators and deers. Creatures kept for funnies can be expanded to anything that doesn't break stuff, but I just care about the useful ones.

[Mysterious box]

24 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I don’t see the problem here, I think content that doesn’t actively intrude on your gameplay if you don’t want to deal with it is good. 
It’s not fun being forced to deal with a threat I don’t want to deal with rn, that’s just turning said threat into a chore, more than anything.

Then I don't see a issue with rifts your not forced to activate it and it's not like you need to use your megabase world for it right? Why not go for unique experiences for different worlds rather than making them all fit into one neat little box?

24 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I understand this is kinda the opposite of a survival game but dst is only really a survival game in the very very early game. This isn’t a new thing, either. I mean, the game is barely a survival game if you can easily amass revival amulets, healing food, etc and turn death into a minor inconvenience.

And that's a problem for people who bought this game expecting a survival game when the game advertises itself as one is it not? Even more so when people are asking for it why should one style of play be "The" valid way to play? When we finally have a option to separate the two styles of plays.

[gamehun20]

18 minutes ago, CuteC said:

Currently the useful creatures I have are goats, gekkos, gators and deers. Creatures kept for funnies can be expanded to anything that doesn't break stuff, but I just care about the useful ones.

The eyeless deer? So gekkos eventually hopefully soon will have some sort of transformation to them so that means they will be immune to the glass rain (glommer should be tagged with lunar)

[CuteC]

Just now, gamehun20 said:

The eyeless deer?

Yes, since they drop the horns for Klaus.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, GelatinousCube said:

I mean you might not suggest this stuff personally but I've seem a fair few suggestions from pro destruction people that are pretty extreme and outlandish.

Some people on the forums genuinely do want an exploding hellscape.  

I'm aware but they're few in number...I hope. 

I put those suggestions in similar categories to people who want player owned locks or  being forced into post rift content.

[lenship2]

id really really love if the weather was more dynamic in this game, stuff like rain being decreased in desert biomes, lunar hail being centralized to lunar rift areas, acid rain pouring from above the shadow rifts, etc.

if not then i would propose the hail not do damage but instead scare any mob for around 5 seconds like what moongleams do.

[gamehun20]

3 minutes ago, CuteC said:

Yes, since they drop the horns for Klaus.

I'm trying to think of a solution that isn't just a band aid fix like the boulder just not spawning on player built stuff maybe only deer could have health regen not a lot of them but they also respawn or atleast i think they do

2 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

if not then i would propose the hail not do damage but instead scare any mob for around 5 seconds like what moongleams do.

Doesn't the gleam damage mobs tho?

[Evelo]

18 hours ago, chirsg said:

The fact that this post has this many positive reactions goes to show how little people know about Hamlet.

Hamlet is by far, the most harmful DLC when it comes to mobs, structures and gardens. Pig guards can light up your base in flames, pogs rummage through chests and iceboxes, Ancient herald drops flaming meteors from the sky and if you happen to like pogs and keep them penned up, they are liable to go extinct without a way to bring them back to life.

I had to tag you all one by one because hamlet is detrimental to bases and shame on all of you for perpetuating that Hamlet is some sort of expansion that coddles your creations from destruction.

You're not wrong. I was mostly referring to the fact there is a safe space in the Pig Towns. Yes I oversimplified the hamlet experience and I apologize for that.

Side note: I have never played Hamlet just watched some videos on it.

[_zwb]

3 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

what's the current list of creatures that are kept at base and get damaged?

Spoiler

Carrat
No-eyed Deer
Friendly Fruitfly
Saladmander
Glommer
Grass Gekko
Koalefant
Light Crab
Bulbous Lightbugs
Shadow Servants & Duelists
Smallbirds
Smallish Birds
Wobster
Lunar Wobster
Wormwood's summons

*Excluding mobs that regen health overtime

[gamehun20]

2 minutes ago, _zwb said:

  Hide contents

Carrat
No-eyed Deer
Friendly Fruitfly
Saladmander
Glommer
Koalefant
Light Crab
Bulbous Lightbugs
Shadow Servants & Duelists
Smallbirds
Smallish Birds
Wobster
Lunar Wobster
Wormwood's summons

*Excluding mobs that regen health overtime

Aren't lunar mobs immune to glass fall?

[_zwb]

3 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

Doesn't the gleam damage mobs tho?

Yes they do

Just now, gamehun20 said:

Aren't lunar mobs immune to glass fall?

Yes but those mobs are still vulnerable to moonstorm

[lenship2]

3 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

Doesn't the gleam damage mobs tho?

it does, but im just saying that the damage should be removed and replaced with panic status

[00petar00]

17 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

The problem here is everyone has a different level of what they find acceptable I get there is a base of player who want nothing to happen unless you engage with it but there are a base of players who want the opposite you can't just assume because it's not fun for you or that ant new survival mechanics are chores to you that it's going to be a chore to everyone else some people like to test their builds against the elements and come out on top saying yea you threw your best at me but me and my base are still standing.

The difference is that these chores are forced on everyone while you can completely avoid sandbox part of the game if you want.

Also even if we have different levels of what we find acceptable, we are close to the limit to how many chores we can have as they already take too much time. This is a game and not a job, I am not going to spend 10+ days each game year on repeat.

17 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Rifts aren't going to be the end of all pre rift content this content is more focused on survival why shouldn't you be expected to adapt to that when you willing decide to engage with it why does the game need to hold itself back from doing anything because you want it to cater only to your style of play specifically? 

Another argument that holds no water, you can't expect players to not interact with new content as this seems to be pretty big and klei has already invested months of development time into it. Are we supposed to play the game as if no updates are released for a year or longer?

There is another aspect to it, there are a lot of valuable items you can obtain from rifts and there will be arguments between players who want to turn on the rift and those who don't and you can't really blame anyone that wants access to the new gear and content. Worth noting is that you can't do anything unless you are the host after rifts are activated, rifts would be much less of an issue if we could turn them off.

17 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

As apposed to the player who isn't interested in megabasing having content tossed into the void or butchered because the more important players say so?

Most of the content in the game you can interact without megabasing, players are just increasing the scale of their projects. Rifts are the next big focus and they may get updates for years, you can't say that players really have a choice to not activate them.

 

EDIT: I want to ask a question, what does hail damaging mobs have to do with you a survival player? it just seems like the part of the game you don't interact with is punished while you won't ever play long enough for it to matter. To me it seems like if something doesn't affect you and you end up arguing against it for no good reason or just to spite long term players.

Same with boulders, you were completely against pillars being added to the game and yet it doesn't affect survival aspect. Why can't you just make the game more difficult for yourself and not build them? Do we need to have base destruction that we can't control? At that point all of the megabasers will quit.

[cropo]

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

EDIT: I want to ask a question, what does hail damaging mobs have to do with you a survival player? it just seems like the part of the game you don't interact with is punished while you won't ever play long enough for it to matter. To me it seems like if something doesn't affect you and you end up arguing against it for no good reason or just to spite long term players.

Same with boulders, you were completely against pillars being added to the game and yet it doesn't affect survival aspect. Why can't you just make the game more difficult for yourself and not build them? Do we need to have base destruction that we can't control? At that point all of the megabasers will quit.

This is honestly the big question here. I hate Megabasing, I'd never waste time on such a meaningless(to me) way of playing the game...but what does falling boulders do for me as a more survival oriented player? Do they challenge me? No, lmao. Show of hands, has anyone ever really felt any tension or challenge from boulders? Come on...having my campfire and alchemy engine that I placed near the entrance of the ruins destroyed at random intervals for me to just rebuild them isn't really enhancing my survival experience. There was no tension, challenge, or ordeal I had to face to overcome it or master it. It's just ''Hey, think fast, BOULDER'' and just, okay w.e. All it really did was serve to make the caves uglier overtime, like what did they even do? 

 

Is Lunar rain somehow more challenging to deal with? I don't really think so, to be fair it is slightly more engaging than the boulders but it's not really increasing or adding to the challenge or depth to the game. It's just dodging a bit of falling objects, something we've been doing for years...what does it offer to the survival aspect? How is not making it damage mobs ''holding it back''? 

 

A lot of these concepts are not ''survival'' updates, they don't add or increase any kind of challenge or depth. They only serve to tell the player ''That way to play is NOT okay'', and if this trend continues without any pushback it will only add to adding more things that are just...not really interesting? Like, really boring, not really challenging anyone, and denying certain playstyles just because ''Well it's a harsh world, it should be that way!'', where a majority of the game encourages you to avoid it by simply unloading it to protect your structures.

 

The new bosses are great, I'm actually okay with Brightshades as I think a case could be made that they have engagement and counters for them(I just build multiple houndius shootius on my farms which makes the divided aggro much easier to deal with). But random, structure destroying boulders? Trivial and inconsequential rain that only has the potential to kill people's critters? That's not content, that's not survival challenge...it's just, I'm sorry it's just really stupid.

 

I haven't really heard any defense of these mechanics that asserts they are integral to the survival experience other than ''It's a harsh world, it should just be that way, just because'' and vaguely alluding to ''adding challenge'' without being specific in how it adds any challenge. Like even if the content isn't good, it seems a certain group praise it because it asserts some ideal they have of how harsh the game should be.

 

If the only way Klei can add more challenge to the game is to add game mechanics that can't realistically be challenged or tackled by the player, only endured and persisted through, then i would say it isn't a fair kind of difficulty and DST has no future. When you first play the game and Charlie kills you, it's YOUR fault you died. When a random boulder just lands on a structure because ''Screw you'' that's not your fault or any mistake you made, you didn't fail anything, you couldn't do anything. You just rebuild the structure and clean out the obnoxious rocks everywhere. That isn't survival, it's base management simulator, like some kind of Rimworld game. 

 

 

[CameoAppearance]

I agree that it's bad for hail to slowly kill off mobs that don't reproduce/respawn and are just minding their own business on the same screen as the player (especially the ones that either run away or attack when the player gets too close, as that makes them difficult to manually heal), but in that case I think either world regrowth should be tweaked to allow them to repopulate, or the mobs should be given some health regeneration that's slow enough that it won't make a difference during combat but allows them to recover from accumulating incidental damage.

[GelatinousCube]

34 minutes ago, cropo said:

This is honestly the big question here. I hate Megabasing, I'd never waste time on such a meaningless(to me) way of playing the game...but what does falling boulders do for me as a more survival oriented player? Do they challenge me? No, lmao. Show of hands, has anyone ever really felt any tension or challenge from boulders? Come on...having my campfire and alchemy engine that I placed near the entrance of the ruins destroyed at random intervals for me to just rebuild them isn't really enhancing my survival experience. There was no tension, challenge, or ordeal I had to face to overcome it or master it. It's just ''Hey, think fast, BOULDER'' and just, okay w.e. All it really did was serve to make the caves uglier overtime, like what did they even do? 

 

Is Lunar rain somehow more challenging to deal with? I don't really think so, to be fair it is slightly more engaging than the boulders but it's not really increasing or adding to the challenge or depth to the game. It's just dodging a bit of falling objects, something we've been doing for years...what does it offer to the survival aspect? How is not making it damage mobs ''holding it back''? 

 

A lot of these concepts are not ''survival'' updates, they don't add or increase any kind of challenge or depth. They only serve to tell the player ''That way to play is NOT okay'', and if this trend continues without any pushback it will only add to adding more things that are just...not really interesting? Like, really boring, not really challenging anyone, and denying certain playstyles just because ''Well it's a harsh world, it should be that way!'', where a majority of the game encourages you to avoid it by simply unloading it to protect your structures.

 

The new bosses are great, I'm actually okay with Brightshades as I think a case could be made that they have engagement and counters for them(I just build multiple houndius shootius on my farms which makes the divided aggro much easier to deal with). But random, structure destroying boulders? Trivial and inconsequential rain that only has the potential to kill people's critters? That's not content, that's not survival challenge...it's just, I'm sorry it's just really stupid.

 

I haven't really heard any defense of these mechanics that asserts they are integral to the survival experience other than ''It's a harsh world, it should just be that way, just because'' and vaguely alluding to ''adding challenge'' without being specific in how it adds any challenge. Like even if the content isn't good, it seems a certain group praise it because it asserts some ideal they have of how harsh the game should be.

 

If the only way Klei can add more challenge to the game is to add game mechanics that can't realistically be challenged or tackled by the player, only endured and persisted through, then i would say it isn't a fair kind of difficulty and DST has no future. When you first play the game and Charlie kills you, it's YOUR fault you died. When a random boulder just lands on a structure because ''Screw you'' that's not your fault or any mistake you made, you didn't fail anything, you couldn't do anything. You just rebuild the structure and clean out the obnoxious rocks everywhere. That isn't survival, it's base management simulator, like some kind of Rimworld game. 

 

 

Wish I could big ups this post like twenty times. 

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The difference is that these chores are forced on everyone while you can completely avoid sandbox part of the game if you want.

Also even if we have different levels of what we find acceptable, we are close to the limit to how many chores we can have as they already take too much time. This is a game and not a job, I am not going to spend 10+ days each game year on repeat.

Simply form a group of people who don't wish to do the rifts and don't do them then just because you don't want to engage with the new survival content doesn't mean everyone else doesn't if you personally feel it's too much the answer is simple don't do it if your not enjoying it.

 

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Another argument that holds no water, you can't expect players to not interact with new content as this seems to be pretty big and klei has already invested months of development time into it. Are we supposed to play the game as if no updates are released for a year or longer?

There is another aspect to it, there are a lot of valuable items you can obtain from rifts and there will be arguments between players who want to turn on the rift and those who don't and you can't really blame anyone that wants access to the new gear and content. Worth noting is that you can't do anything unless you are the host after rifts are activated, rifts would be much less of an issue if we could turn them off.

This arguement holds just as little water by your logic we should delete the ocean so people who want to do moon quay, pearl, and lunar island don't have to deal with the frustration of ocean travel if you don't like the direction content is going simply don't engage with it. If you don't like that other people can advance the world's story don't play with those people or ask Klei to make setting where the rifts can never be started on your personal servers.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Most of the content in the game you can interact without megabasing, players are just increasing the scale of their projects. Rifts are the next big focus and they may get updates for years, you can't say that players really have a choice to not activate them.

There are players who've played for years and still haven't done fuel weaver, celestial champion, or gone to sea there's more than enough content to mess around with until Klei adds more early to mid game content also earlier content was on the road map if I'm remembering right so I doubt we'll go years without touching the early to mid game where the majority of the playerbase resides.

 

6 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Same with boulders, you were completely against pillars being added to the game and yet it doesn't affect survival aspect. Why can't you just make the game more difficult for yourself and not build them? Do we need to have base destruction that we can't control? At that point all of the megabasers will quit.

This is just straight up misinformation I was against pillars being passively maintained not them being added. In fact I stood by the stance the mechanic should have been removed instead but once again you and others spread misinformation to make your point sound better. That being said with more new seasonal content being intended base destruction is definitely going to be more likely one way or another ideally not unavoidably but you may have to adjust your build if you plan to go into the end game in the future which I feel should be fine so long as it opens up opportunities for newer unique end game base ideas not possible pre rifts no?

 

6 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

EDIT: I want to ask a question, what does hail damaging mobs have to do with you a survival player? it just seems like the part of the game you don't interact with is punished while you won't ever play long enough for it to matter. To me it seems like if something doesn't affect you and you end up arguing against it for no good reason or just to spite long term players.

I mean techincally speaking I didn't say I had a issue with this changing I even said in another thread I'd rather they do only this change so long as it's the only change that happens to it the main reason I jumped into this thread was because of all the bashing of people who wanted survival focused content and people who said the hail wasn't related survival at all. However if you want my personal feelings on the matter I'd prefer it stayed the same but all affected creatures became renewable naturally as at this point in the game there's no point to why any creatures should be going exintict and especially not when it's directly caused by the game itself.

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Simply form a group of people who don't wish to do the rifts and don't do them then just because you don't want to engage with the new survival content doesn't mean everyone else doesn't if you personally feel it's too much the answer is simple don't do it if your not enjoying it.

 It seems like you can't make a good argument so you are basically telling people to not play multiplayer game with other people.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

This arguement holds just as little water by your logic we should delete the ocean so people who want to do moon quay, pearl, and lunar island don't have to deal with the frustration of ocean travel if you don't like the direction content is going simply don't engage with it. If you don't like that other people can advance the world's story don't play with those people or ask Klei to make setting where the rifts can never be started on your personal servers.

Another argument that makes no sense. Ocean is accessible to anyone that wants to go there and no chores are permanently activated to everyone else.

What a good suggestion, so I am supposed to not engage in content that klei will likely focus on for at least a year possibly longer, I already wrote about this so I won't repeat myself.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

There are players who've played for years and still haven't done fuel weaver, celestial champion, or gone to sea there's more than enough content to mess around with until Klei adds more early to mid game content also earlier content was on the road map if I'm remembering right so I doubt we'll go years without touching the early to mid game where the majority of the playerbase resides.

Again, that doesn't relate to rifts because that is all optional and no one is punished if one player kills CC or FW.

Also every single boss that is added to the game is usually an update in itself and on a much smaller scale compared to rifts and there is usually different content updates in between.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

This is just straight up misinformation I was against pillars being passively maintained not them being added. In fact I stood by the stance the mechanic should have been removed instead but once again you and others spread misinformation to make your point sound better. That being said with more new seasonal content being intended base destruction is definitely going to be more likely one way or another ideally not unavoidably but you may have to adjust your build if you plan to go into the end game in the future which I feel should be fine so long as it opens up opportunities for newer unique end game base ideas not possible pre rifts no?

If I remember correctly you were against them being added at first but later on you just wanted them to not passively protect, so another chore for no reason. I may be misremembering though and I don't need to "spread misinformation" and have not done it ever on purpose if it does happen. This doesn't make my argument stronger either as it is just your personal opinion.

On the topic of pillars not needing repairs It actually doesn't affect you in any way but punishes long term players, it is easy for you to repair rock pillar or two but someone having 50-100 of them will have to always pay attention.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean techincally speaking I didn't say I had a issue with this changing I even said in another thread I'd rather they do only this change so long as it's the only change that happens to it the main reason I jumped into this thread was because of all the bashing of people who wanted survival focused content and people who said the hail wasn't related survival at all. However if you want my personal feelings on the matter I'd prefer it stayed the same but all affected creatures became renewable naturally as at this point in the game there's no point to why any creatures should be going exintict and especially not when it's directly caused by the game itself.

So this doesn't affect you at all as a survival player and you want it to stay the same to add another chore to long term players as they will need to replenish grass gekkos, deers and decoration mobs.

Every creature should be renewable and hail should still be changed to only hurt the player. This is pretty much the most important change needed in this update.

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

It seems like you can't make a good argument so you are basically telling people to not play multiplayer game with other people.

Your saying this but your argument is the game should exactly how you want it to be purely for your own enjoyment and only other people should compromise that's very selfish. It's a running theme with you only your enjoyment matters the only valid way to play is how you see fit I really don't remember you becoming a dev so why should everyone bend the knee to your way of playing and your values on what should be considered fun or boring? Oh because you want to play base sim only and people who want a more survival based experience don't deserve anything?

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Again, that doesn't relate to rifts because that is all optional and no one is punished if one player kills CC or FW.

Also every single boss that is added to the game is usually an update in itself and on a much smaller scale compared to rifts and there is usually different content updates in between.

I think you need to just accept this isn't a game for just you to play it has all kinds of players klei can't just design around your every whim if you don't like the content do not put yourself in a position where you have to experience it you can not be the end all judge on what is and isn't allowed in this game you do not own if you want to be either become a dev or make your own game where you can.

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

If I remember correctly you were against them being added at first but later on you just wanted them to not passively protect, so another chore for no reason. I may be misremembering though and I don't need to "spread misinformation" and have not done it ever on purpose if it does happen. This doesn't make my argument stronger either as it is just your personal opinion.

Well try to remember harder because from the beginning I specifically said I was against the initial pitch which was to make the pillars as a structure that required no maintenance heck I had even pitched the idea for the umbralla force field at the time but wanted it to block boulders.

Your saying you don't spread misinformation on purpose but it seems everytime we interact I have to correct you on this stuff specifically because you keep declaring what my stances are to me if your not sure or don't remember something don't declare it as fact and I won't call you out on it.

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

On the topic of pillars not needing repairs It actually doesn't affect you in any way but punishes long term players, it is easy for you to repair rock pillar or two but someone having 50-100 of them will have to always pay attention.

I really do love how every mechanic added is backed by ha it doesn't  effect you anyway only megabasers are actually effected by survival content am I right? Only a megabaser would be a large base clearly we can just condense everything we get over thousands days onto a single screen or two right? Oh wait or are you still thinking anyone playing this game as survival game doesn't build a base or use skins still?

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

So this doesn't affect you at all as a survival player and you want it to stay the same to add another chore to long term players as they will need to replenish grass gekkos, deers and decoration mobs.

This is just a lazy argument a mechanic added by the devs to represent a clear change in the world and a bigger showcase of factions impacting the surface doesn't directly affect us but that doesn't mean it means nothing at all. If Klei removed all the sound effects it wouldn't affect the gameplay experience, if they removed all the worst crockpot dishes and vegetables it wouldn't affect the gameplay experience if they removed all the unpopular cave biomes it wouldn't affect the gameplay experience? Or would it? I feel like something would be lost no?

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Every creature should be renewable and hail should still be changed to only hurt the player. This is pretty much the most important change needed in this update.

Now it's been brought up already but here's my twist on it make every mob both hostile and natural renewable naturally (as well as their spawners) then add a new mechanic to make it so mobs heal when they sleep I know passive healing was the original suggestion but I feel like this makes more sense as you can make the healing rate much higher and it feels more natural. Now everybody wins here right?

[Jakepeng99]

9 hours ago, cropo said:

This is honestly the big question here. I hate Megabasing, I'd never waste time on such a meaningless(to me) way of playing the game...but what does falling boulders do for me as a more survival oriented player? Do they challenge me? No, lmao. Show of hands, has anyone ever really felt any tension or challenge from boulders? Come on...having my campfire and alchemy engine that I placed near the entrance of the ruins destroyed at random intervals for me to just rebuild them isn't really enhancing my survival experience. There was no tension, challenge, or ordeal I had to face to overcome it or master it. It's just ''Hey, think fast, BOULDER'' and just, okay w.e. All it really did was serve to make the caves uglier overtime, like what did they even do? 

 

Is Lunar rain somehow more challenging to deal with? I don't really think so, to be fair it is slightly more engaging than the boulders but it's not really increasing or adding to the challenge or depth to the game. It's just dodging a bit of falling objects, something we've been doing for years...what does it offer to the survival aspect? How is not making it damage mobs ''holding it back''? 

 

A lot of these concepts are not ''survival'' updates, they don't add or increase any kind of challenge or depth. They only serve to tell the player ''That way to play is NOT okay'', and if this trend continues without any pushback it will only add to adding more things that are just...not really interesting? Like, really boring, not really challenging anyone, and denying certain playstyles just because ''Well it's a harsh world, it should be that way!'', where a majority of the game encourages you to avoid it by simply unloading it to protect your structures.

 

The new bosses are great, I'm actually okay with Brightshades as I think a case could be made that they have engagement and counters for them(I just build multiple houndius shootius on my farms which makes the divided aggro much easier to deal with). But random, structure destroying boulders? Trivial and inconsequential rain that only has the potential to kill people's critters? That's not content, that's not survival challenge...it's just, I'm sorry it's just really stupid.

 

I haven't really heard any defense of these mechanics that asserts they are integral to the survival experience other than ''It's a harsh world, it should just be that way, just because'' and vaguely alluding to ''adding challenge'' without being specific in how it adds any challenge. Like even if the content isn't good, it seems a certain group praise it because it asserts some ideal they have of how harsh the game should be.

 

If the only way Klei can add more challenge to the game is to add game mechanics that can't realistically be challenged or tackled by the player, only endured and persisted through, then i would say it isn't a fair kind of difficulty and DST has no future. When you first play the game and Charlie kills you, it's YOUR fault you died. When a random boulder just lands on a structure because ''Screw you'' that's not your fault or any mistake you made, you didn't fail anything, you couldn't do anything. You just rebuild the structure and clean out the obnoxious rocks everywhere. That isn't survival, it's base management simulator, like some kind of Rimworld game. 

 

 

I actually like avoiding the lunar hail though as mentioned before if it scared mobs instead of damaging them it would be cool since you could use it to your advantage rather than being a force just to try hurt you

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Your saying this but your argument is the game should exactly how you want it to be purely for your own enjoyment and only other people should compromise that's very selfish. It's a running theme with you only your enjoyment matters the only valid way to play is how you see fit I really don't remember you becoming a dev so why should everyone bend the knee to your way of playing and your values on what should be considered fun or boring? Oh because you want to play base sim only and people who want a more survival based experience don't deserve anything?

Contrary to what you believe, I want difficulty increase with new content updates. What I don't want is tedium/forced chores on top of what already is in the game.

You seem way more selfish compared to me since you want to force everyone to play how you want and I can literally use your argument against you, tune up the difficulty yourself. No one is forcing you to use dreadstone pillars and in the same vein no one is saying that you have to use umbralla. Go base in meteor biome and play as if you are Sisyphus and just rebuild your base every time it gets destroyed.

Every player should be able to have the most freedom possible to decide how to play the game and the difference between your ideal survival mechanics being added is that everyone would have to interact with them, you don't need to build a megabase but players have to suffer though brightshades and hail.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I think you need to just accept this isn't a game for just you to play it has all kinds of players klei can't just design around your every whim if you don't like the content do not put yourself in a position where you have to experience it you can not be the end all judge on what is and isn't allowed in this game you do not own if you want to be either become a dev or make your own game where you can.

Maybe you need to accept that it isn't a game just for you either and that most players don't like destructive mechanics that can't be dealt with permanently. We are here to have a discussion and if you don't want to have one you are free to stop or leave at any point, I can reply to any post you make on a public forum and you don't need to respond to me.

I am here to share my perspective especially since this is beta forum and I don't want developers to take your feedback without considering the opposite playstyle in question.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Your saying you don't spread misinformation on purpose but it seems everytime we interact I have to correct you on this stuff specifically because you keep declaring what my stances are to me if your not sure or don't remember something don't declare it as fact and I won't call you out on it.

I don't think that has happened as frequent as you seem to say but it really isn't a big deal and you can correct me but it doesn't change much on what I wanted to say or make my statement any more or less valid.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I really do love how every mechanic added is backed by ha it doesn't  effect you anyway only megabasers are actually effected by survival content am I right? Only a megabaser would be a large base clearly we can just condense everything we get over thousands days onto a single screen or two right? Oh wait or are you still thinking anyone playing this game as survival game doesn't build a base or use skins still?

Aren't you repeating how I can decide to not activate the rifts? So why can't you just not build stuff that you don't like and it won't have any effect on your gameplay but you want these features to not exist for others when it matters much more to them. A survival player that plays for 100-200 days won't really build dreadstone pillars and won't benefit from having one.

Rock pillar will outlast your entire survival run.

So when you say that you don't want permanent pillars to exist in the game, you purely want to make other players have worse experience, the ones that do play for thousands of days and it literally doesn't matter for your playstyle as you won't be using them.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

This is just a lazy argument a mechanic added by the devs to represent a clear change in the world and a bigger showcase of factions impacting the surface doesn't directly affect us but that doesn't mean it means nothing at all. If Klei removed all the sound effects it wouldn't affect the gameplay experience, if they removed all the worst crockpot dishes and vegetables it wouldn't affect the gameplay experience if they removed all the unpopular cave biomes it wouldn't affect the gameplay experience? Or would it? I feel like something would be lost no?

Hail would already have a big enough impact even without dealing damage to mobs.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Now it's been brought up already but here's my twist on it make every mob both hostile and natural renewable naturally (as well as their spawners) then add a new mechanic to make it so mobs heal when they sleep I know passive healing was the original suggestion but I feel like this makes more sense as you can make the healing rate much higher and it feels more natural. Now everybody wins here right?

That would be nice but I do think that every mob should have passive healing as well because if they sleep at night and only heal during that time they can die if you are never near them when they are sleeping as they wouldn't be healing.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You seem way more selfish compared to me since you want to force everyone to play how you want and I can literally use your argument against you, tune up the difficulty yourself. No one is forcing you to use dreadstone pillars and in the same vein no one is saying that you have to use umbralla. Go base in meteor biome and play as if you are Sisyphus and just rebuild your base every time it gets destroyed.

I'm not forcing anything your upset with players having the option to decide. Your saying that this form of survival content shouldn't be allowed as not to offend your idealized playstyle and this is because you can't control what content people who join your server want to engage with you lack the ability to control them so instead you ask for options that disobey what you want to taken away that is peak selfishness. We have the choice to engage with the endgame true different people can decide to advance the story but different people can build bases, kill bosses, and various other things that might influence how you interact with the world it's something you have to accept in a online multiplayer game everyone has a choice.

22 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

No one is forcing you to use dreadstone pillars and in the same vein no one is saying that you have to use umbralla. Go base in meteor biome and play as if you are Sisyphus and just rebuild your base every time it gets destroyed.

No one is forcing you to play with people who want to go into the endgame If you hate survival content so much then just go play on super godmode and turn off all mechanics that can cause destruction.

9 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Contrary to what you believe, I want difficulty increase with new content updates. What I don't want is tedium/forced chores on top of what already is in the game.

What you seem to want is just boss fights or random biomes placed somewhere far out with no real impact on how we play the game that's not difficulty nor survival and even then it's not like survival content has to be headsmashingly hard to offer challenge or a interesting dynamic.

 

11 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Every player should be able to have the most freedom possible to decide how to play the game and the difference between your ideal survival mechanics being added is that everyone would have to interact with them, you don't need to build a megabase but players have to suffer though brightshades and hail.

And everyone does however if you play in a group you have to accept that EVERYONE has a say in how to experience the game not just you not just me if you don't like the decision players on the server reached become the boss of that server and lay down your own law. You know when people lose their freedom however? When people like you put limits on what content we're allowed to have your not trying to be fair your trying to take away choice while saying see now everyone's happy.

16 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

We are here to have a discussion and if you don't want to have one you are free to stop or leave at any point, I can reply to any post you make on a public forum and you don't need to respond to me.

I am here to share my perspective especially since this is beta forum and I don't want developers to take your feedback without considering the opposite playstyle in question.

That's fine but if your so keen on going about it by making inaccurate accusations about people disregarding fact or reason don't blame me if I do the same. Maybe I should go on about how you hate anyone who doesn't megabase and how you feel anyone looking for survival content only makes fire pits with default skins for the Raw survival hardcore uncompromising experience sounds silly right? So maybe debate the topic without doing that eh? If you've got to pull up old conversations you don't remember clearly to support your argument it just makes it seem faulty.

38 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

A survival player that plays for 100-200 days won't really build dreadstone pillars and won't benefit from having one.

Rock pillar will outlast your entire survival run.

Wow I didn't know you personally knew every survival player and questioned them to come up with this arbitrary ruleset for how long people who play for survival content will play the game. Truely your dedication knows no bounds because clearly you wouldn't be basing this off of your own assumptions and biases of how people play the game right? Right?

43 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Hail would already have a big enough impact even without dealing damage to mobs.

If the mobs don't die from it why does it matter? You keep your pet I keep my emersion we all win no? Or is there some hidden consequence I'm unaware of?

45 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

That would be nice but I do think that every mob should have passive healing as well because if they sleep at night and only heal during that time they can die if you are never near them when they are sleeping as they wouldn't be healing.

Simply make it so if they're unloaded when it's night time the game treats them as sleeping. Heck we could even add a mechanic where if a mob is below a certain hp threshold and not aggroed they'll sleep until they feel better regardless of time of day I'm sure that could lead to some interesting and creative new strategies no?

 

So I know this conversation is going to loop on with each of us saying our piece because we're both stubborn but there is a pattern on these forums I'd like to point out since often times people seem to think I'm trying to shutdown debating my opinion.

The thing I take issue with is how often people try to bring up unrelated matters to these discussions and by unrelated matters I mean things said in the past or assumptions about each other's character now it's very clear what these sorts of arguments aim to do and it's to discredit the person they're arguing against to completely write off their opinion and when successful it's often used as a weapon against other people to shutdown discussions they have of a similar nature and I'm sure we've all seen examples of this elsewhere. Heck I'm not saying I'm above this either it's hard not to get sucked into the rabbit hole though I am bringing this up because I do find it annoying and kinda hope we all can stop doing this.

[abrocator]

On 9/30/2023 at 12:43 AM, Evelo said:

Should the doctor's office not have spooky things to accommodate for people who are afraid of this that or the other thing, or should I either look for a different office or find a work around to my issue (like close my eyes, request someone come to me with the paperwork to distance myself).

Halloween decorations. What a Hippocratic dilemma.

On 9/30/2023 at 4:06 AM, Mysterious box said:

I'm really tired of [wall of text]

It's not hard to sketch something that people would like or be fine with. How do you implement a new challenge that doesn't pounce on people's bases? You implement it as a new area that didn't exist before. Duh. That by definition cannot ruin existing bases.

Could be a new island or an underground lake or something else.

Hard to implement? I guess. But that's a separate matter.

On 9/30/2023 at 6:40 AM, xhyom said:

This is literally the hard mode of the game, and yet they along added purely decorative things, thinking about people who focus on making bases full of things, if you don't want to interact with ANYTHING that makes your gameplay difficult, how about not activating the portals? "Ah but then I won't interact with new things" Well, if you don't like ANY of the new content that is focused on something OTHER than your base I don't think you need a super endgame craft to take care of your base, it's literally optional, if you don't want to be forced to do difficult survival content don't force others to the opposite too, and as always, it is possible to always disable these things, but there is no way to do the opposite and activate something removed.

Has this interaction ever happened:

• Beta is released
• A: I don't like Beta. It destroys too much.
• B: It's an opt-in game mode you don't have to engage with it.
• A: Understandable have a great day.

It's effectively saying that people that don't like this Beta can just opt out of this update as well as all the other post-rift updates that the game will get.