is lamb idol trash?

[Gi-Go]

So I've build it, and I assumed since it costs 55 rocks and 10 gold, and since you litteraly upgrade it, it would be an upgrade to classic firepit. But it seems to be a downgrade instead.

If it has bigger range I can't even see it, it takes 8 or 11 logs to be fully lit, shadow hands still yoink the fire and the sanity aura is pathetic (as always).

What gives? 

[Jakepeng99]

It lasts 2 minutes longer.

 

Yeah that is all you missed

[Gi-Go]

38 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It lasts 2 minutes longer.

 

Yeah that is all you missed

Thanks

[Nogard78]

It gives sanity. I think it has to be lit and has an aura like sisturn.

[goatt]

I think it's quite "use"-less. Like as useful as killing pigs using traps. Useful awkardly. But I guess that's what crossovers supposed to be like. It's more decorative.

[Mike23Ua]

I actually have a few questions about this thing since I haven’t built one myself yet.

The first question is it’s size smaller than a regular fire pit?

The next Question is can it be crafted on a Boat? I think a more compact boat campfire would be lovely… 

I can put more structures on my boat.

[GelatinousCube]

In certain key spots underground it's very useful for me like after the fuelweaver or nightmare werepig fight when I want to boost my sanity back up to using the enlightened crown for light. Between the crown itself and the idols aura I can get sanity back up much faster than before without having to chug some jerky (which I might not always have). Yeah I could just use a dwarf star and yes I have bee queen crown stations near nightmare lights but it's still very handy. Yes I could just use moggles or miners hat as well but I'm pretty glued to my crown. 

Somewhat niche use but works very well.

I'm more worried about it not having a minimap icon yet and it not producing charcoal. Pretty keen for this to be updated. 

14 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

shadow hands still yoink the fire

Given it's cost to fully upgrade perhaps it should be immune to shadow hands.

[Kwaik]

Haven't built this thing yet 

 

But if I have a flingomatic on, will it put this out? 

 

To me that would make this worthwhile 

 

Otherwise it's just purely a cosmetic thing, with a little sanity aura 

[Cheggf]

Looks cool for cotl fans

[Fufuji]

Making this can be built on Day 1 may be better. By the time Summer comes players usually have better things for light source and sanity aura.

[Jakepeng99]

14 hours ago, goatt said:

I think it's quite "use"-less. Like as useful as killing pigs using traps. Useful awkardly. But I guess that's what crossovers supposed to be like. It's more decorative.

I was kind of hoping for the crossover to be with cult of the lamb, i feel like it just looks like it. The firepit reskin doesn't have any mechanics resembling cotl.

3 hours ago, Fufuji said:

Making this can be built on Day 1 may be better. By the time Summer comes players usually have better things for light source and sanity aura.

Yeah it's a fire pit reskin that you can't use in Summer, which is the time you unlock it

 

[Yuuko]

6 hours ago, Fufuji said:

Making this can be built on Day 1 may be better. By the time Summer comes players usually have better things for light source and sanity aura.

If its about other things being a better light source, then it is irrelevant at all stages of the game.  Just make a starcaller, you literally have everything the cotl idol does but portable.

When I hit the ruins first I usually never build a camp fire.

If it should do something, that something should be more unique and niche, something that is more flavorful than useful.  I think having it gain some fuel every time something dies near it could be cool, or maybe like some others have said let you slot gems into it to change it between hot / cold fire or let you pray around it (similar to Walter's story telling?) for some effect.

edit: What if it had a storytelling type mechanic but the effect was increased if multiple people join in, and based on the strength of the fire.  Like low flame + low player count could just give you some sticks / grass / stone, but if the flame is high you might get a grass tuff or berry bush.  Higher flame tiers + player counts could get you some gems, rare loots like mandrakes, etc.  Penalties could be easy like a drop in health / hunger / sanity but could also be summoning mobs.  Maybe a special challenge type boss fight like everyone's sanity is set to 0, instant night, forced new-moon, heavy rain and lightning, moosegoose + spawns angry mosslings every .5 seconds for each player until mg dies.

Alternatively it could just be a cool way to introduce a challenge version of bosses - sorta like we do the ritual to make toad into misery, what if a cotl idol worshipped near a boss converted it to a challenge version?  Challenge versions can come with more of the basic loot or some extra new loot idk.

[Mike23Ua]

What if lamb idol was more similar to the pig torches “Protect King!”

Similar… But you need to build no less than 8 of them near each other before the effect could work..

But I was thinking maybe building these in like a Mushroom ring like circle could do something NEW, like oh I don’t know… prevent Acid rain?

the amount of resources it would cost to build 8 lamb idols near one another in a circular pattern would be more than enough justification to give it such a perk.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

edit: What if it had a storytelling type mechanic but the effect was increased if multiple people join in, and based on the strength of the fire.  Like low flame + low player count could just give you some sticks / grass / stone, but if the flame is high you might get a grass tuff or berry bush.  Higher flame tiers + player counts could get you some gems, rare loots like mandrakes, etc.  Penalties could be easy like a drop in health / hunger / sanity but could also be summoning mobs.  Maybe a special challenge type boss fight like everyone's sanity is set to 0, instant night, forced new-moon, heavy rain and lightning, moosegoose + spawns angry mosslings every .5 seconds for each player until mg dies.

Maybe you could sacrafice followers to it by killing them around it, they would die in one hit and drop nothing, and you would be rewarded. (Type of followers depends on rewards)

[goatt]

10 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The firepit reskin doesn't have any mechanics resembling cotl.

Idk the game. What's cotl like?

[Brago-sama]

11 minutes ago, goatt said:

Idk the game. What's cotl like?

Build a cult and have them worship you to build up your own power

This firepit specificly in Cotl has your followers pray around it in order to amass Xp. When you reach enough to gain a point, you use it to gain new knowledge on more structures like farms, sleeping tents, medic stations, cemetarys, decor, etc

Lighting the firepit in the game just made you amass xp faster. It was also just a mini replica of the main praying station. Its called a Tabernacle

[Baark0]

Don't think it's bad, but considering you need summer to unlock it I don't think it has many practical use cases. Even in spring/summer start worlds where you can easily gain access to it, you'd rather use endothermic fires (or better yet, lantern + thermal stone). That's not even mentioning the elephant in the room, the star caller staff. It's really hard for Klei to add new fire pits and actually make them worthwhile using due to the sheer amount of value star callers provide. 

[MondayNight]

7 hours ago, Baark0 said:

...the star caller staff. It's really hard for Klei to add new fire pits and actually make them worthwhile using due to the sheer amount of value star callers provide. 

You do realize vast part of bulk player-base will never see Starcaller Staffs themselves in their play-sessions, right? They barely manage to survive seasons, dying a lot - Ruins are a distant dream if any. Check the achievements on consoles to get a picture of players' percentage dwelling into Ruins shenanigans. As a parallel, yesterday I visited an abandoned Endless USA dedi-server of a certain community: found en route to Ruins no less than 5 dead players, 2 of which were robots equipped with Opto. They all crooked beginning from Ruins' entrance and up to Labyrinth (both robots died there, 1 to Depth Dwellers, 1 x2 deaths - seems he had Life Amu or the other revived him - to Terrors). Funny thing was: day 600+ and (first) AG was still alive, barely anything in Ruins touched. Overwhelming majority of people plays casually and the ones adventuring outside comfort zone most times end up dead - that's bulk player-base in a nutshell. For them objects like Lamb's Idol have their purposes, functional ones even: most players really do stay close to Glommer/Sisturn/Lamb Idol for sanity intake, pick flowers etc, things laughed at on these forums.

Still Idol's upgrade costs seem rather excessive for the end product's performance - either KLei should lower them or buff Idol's attributes.

[Tranoze]

6 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

You do realize vast part of bulk player-base will never see Starcaller Staffs themselves in their play-sessions, right?

Gotta say star caller is much cheaper and easier to craft and encounter than lamb idol. Most player would use 2 ~ 3 star caller staff before they going to summer to fish for the idol blueprint, before even crafting it.
In world where people kill antlion before fishing for idol, you wont see the idol until next year.

11 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

vast part of bulk player-base will never see Starcaller Staffs...

I disagree on this, unless you have hard back up data on how many player actually never see star staff.
Even if they dont hold or craft one on their inventory, they can still see other players use it to cast star.

[MondayNight]

17 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Gotta say star caller is much cheaper and easier to craft and encounter than lamb idol. Most player would use 2 ~ 3 star caller staff before they going to summer to fish for the idol blueprint, before even crafting it.
In world where people kill antlion before fishing for idol, you wont see the idol until next year.

I disagree on this, unless you have hard back up data on how many player actually never see star staff.
Even if they dont hold or craft one on their inventory, they can still see other players use it to cast star.

Bulk player-base plays alone or with some same-skill/knowledge-level friends on personal servers. I know you and your own friends from KLei official servers, where I believe you exclusively play on: all of you are very advanced and knowledgeable people, your lot is in no way representative for bulk player-base. Yes, if technical, casual randoms may glance at people such as you using/sporting Starcaller Staffs. But they have no clue what they are, what they do, from where you get one and what you need to do to make one yourself. To be clear, when I've wrote "they will never see one" my intention was: they themselves will not make one/will not be able to Ruins dive successfully. Certainly you're informed on this fact to not skew bulk player-base's general "skill level" representation.

[Tranoze]

30 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

...

Still, where does that data come from? I do see newbies. I do see advanced players. But the rate of newbies to advanced player that i myself see doesnt reach the point newbies complete overwhelming advanced players.

Yes lots of players play alone where i wont know if they can craft star caller or not. So how do you know that vast part of bulk player base (who play alone) will never make one star caller staff?

I do know lots of players who installed this game, and, uninstall after with various reason, do you consider them a part of player base?
If they are interested in this game, i think 1~2 weeks is enough for them to start looking for cave/ruin contents.

I think a player is experience enough or have enough friends in a world to play with them till first summer to fish for lamb idol stuffs, the world they lived in, atleast one person have enough skill to go and craft star caller.
If they dont know ruins, or how to craft star caller, they probably dont know oasis storm in summer, and they need fishing, then they need to gift the hat to antlion boss...

Which, it is this all about, comparing star caller to lamb shrine. If you have enough knowledge to actually craft lamb shrine, i think you also have enough knowledge to go ruin and craft star caller.

[Cheggf]

In my experience most players know what a SCS is, they "know" how to obtain it, and they think they're ruins rushing experts, but they always go down after about day ten billion then die to some random stuff and disconnect. I think people who don't know what it is and people who can actually get it instead of just spend 2 hours talking about how they're gonna get it are both minorities.

[Random Guy000]

23 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Let you pray around it (similar to Walter's story telling?) for some effect

They should cut the passive regen out, but add this option for like triple the sanity for players while they pray. Actually gives it a use and distinguishes it from the SCS

[abrocator]

2 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

You do realize vast part of bulk player-base will never see Starcaller Staffs themselves in their play-sessions, right?

Indeed. I think you can safely assume that the Ruins don't exist when creating content which is meant for a pretty sizeable portion of the playerbase.

Things that are worse than starcallers can still have a niche in this game even if it's going to be useless to people who have a starcaller by the start of winter.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Still, where does that data come from? I do see newbies. I do see advanced players. But the rate of newbies to advanced player that i myself see doesnt reach the point newbies complete overwhelming advanced players.

I've already mentioned console achievements as a starting point for such data. For example, on X-Box: "Ancient History - Defeated an Ancient Guardian" has a ~1% completion ratio. Certainly this is not representative for all people successfully Ruins' diving, am sure quite the number solely go for one of the incomplete Pseudoscience Stations to make Starcaller Staffs. But there is another achievement pinpointing the percentage of players sitting in Caves for long enough.. to happen upon an Earthquake: "Quakin' in My Boots" with its ~17% completion ratio. You have the 2 ends of an interval, people going into Caves and sitting there long enough for Earthquakes to happen and players successfully killing AG: [17;1]. In this interval you'll also find the percentage of people acquiring on their own Starcallers. Sure, for PC you can validly underline some people can and will use console commands to get these "feats" done. I doubt still will be a number over 20%. Ok, let me be very-VERY charitable to an absurd degree and even exaggerate to a whooping 30% the number of people *hypothetically* getting an Starcaller Staff from all bulk player-base. Yes, is a huge exaggeration. But even 30% means "vast part of bulk player-base will never see Starcaller Staffs themselves" - because 70% is "vast part".

By contrast, on same X-Box charts, "I'm a Survivor - Survived 70 consecutive days" has ~5% completion ratio. Only 5% from bulk player-base survived Summer. Am sure an even smaller percentage actually engaged with Antlion, either in the form of tributes (simpler) or successful kill (way more complicated). That includes now obtaining Lamb Shrine bp. So you have the [17;1] interval vs <5%. I reckon indeed more people will access Starcallers overall as opposed to getting the Lamb Shrine, more-so since Shrine is quite superfluous and most people going for it will be players into base-building and aesthetic designs. But if build, be sure Casuals/Noobs, after noticing it gives sanity, will idle use it. As mentioned, how they do it with Glommer, Sisturn, etc. Or summoned Stars.

Is Lamb Shrine "trash" in general when compared to Starcallers? Certainly so.

If you don't like these crossovers, you will find "trash" anyway, with anything related to them.

 

PS: from personal observation/"anecdotal evidence" over >9k irl hours of various PC pub plays (mostly vanilla ones) since 2017 onward, indeed vast majority of bulk player-base people (the casuals/noobs/newbies much included) has no clue about Ruins and their location, mobs, conditions, gear. Only but a very small number of dedicated advanced players successfully Ruins rush/dive, recurrent ones even lower, and I can name you who they are on EU and some of the USA servers - their total number is under 30. I presume is the same for Asia and Latin America. There are 45,330 people playing atm of this post and around 15,000 listed servers. We can continue writing about "Overwhelming majority of people plays casually" and "bulk player-base will not be able to Ruins dive successfully", you still questioning it.