is lamb idol trash?

[Cheggf]

Achievement stats don't show anything. Anyone who buys the game but doesn't play it, or plays it for like 5 minutes, or opens it then changes his mind, or gets the game as a gift but never plays it, or anything else like that counts against completion. 40% of Warframe players didn't even play a single mission (you solve a cipher in the tutorial and get 1,000 cred in your first level).

Even in games that cost money it's not much better, 12% of Darkest Dungeon players haven't played a single level.

40% of Hunt: Showdown players, aren't actually players.

24% of Mordhau players, haven't played the game.

20% of Payday 2 players haven't played the game, with 15% never even starting a level and 5% quitting in the middle of the first level. A third gave up before even completing 1-3 levels.

.

And half quit before completing less than 10 levels.

I don't think there's any real way to see what players do or do not do, you can only make anecdotal observations based on what you see people on public servers (frequented by newer players) do.

 

[Tranoze]

6 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

console achievements..."vast part of bulk player-base"

I think most of players, or gamer, install game, and then quit it, or never played it. That why achievement ratio often low. You shouldnt use installed game count as bulk player base.
Example, i think a good bench mark to say if a player is in player base or not is survived to 20 days atleast once:

only 25.12% (7769 out of 30921 gamers) players that has installed the game on xBox ever survived to day 20 atleast once.
People who quit/uninstall the game before they even reach day 20, and never play it again (hence why they never reach day 20 even once), should not be consider part of playerbase.
 

30921 players installed the game.
7769 players survived 20 days.
5524 players faced earthquake.
1718 players survived 70 days.
419 killed ancient guardian.

I think it good to say if you killed ancient guardian once, you should survived past 20 days also atleast once. Players who buy the game, install it, rush ruin, kill ancient guardian, then unistall the game, i have no word for them.
5.3% of players who survived 20 days atleast once has killed ancient guardian.

Only 419 human used xbox console ever killed ancient guardian? that 0.00000520800% of human ever. Vast amount of human dont even defeat ag, hence, ag arent important.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

I think most of players, or gamer, install game, and then quit it, or never played it. That why achievement ratio often low. You shouldnt use installed game count as bulk player base.

And that's why I presented my "anecdotal evidence" as well. Plus my personal conclusion too: only a tiny fraction of total encountered players in pubs do Ruins dives, successful ones at that. Exclusively those manage to make Starcaller Staffs.

 

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

I think most of players, or gamer, install game, and then quit it, or never played it. That why achievement ratio often low. You shouldnt use installed game count as bulk player base.
Example, i think a good bench mark to say if a player is in player base or not is survived to 20 days atleast once:

only 25.12% (7769 out of 30921 gamers) players that has installed the game on xBox ever survived to day 20 atleast once.

I believe you underestimate the "forever 1st Autumners" prevalence - people only going on 1st 20-Autumn-days servers. Also the "social butterflies" - those playing DST solely as a mean to socializing. Or what someone on these forums called long ago "Veteran Noobs" - players with hundreds or thousands of DST played hours that never do raid boss fights, never do Ruins or dangerous Cave biomes (only go there to get Light Bulbs, or not even that - do you remember how many people on these very forums praised Wilson's throwing-Torch-on-ground Skill Tree branch, writing how useful it is for them, and that they don't employ Lanterns? Precisely!), some don't do bosses period, or fighting for the matter - they just abandon DC and CareBear in various biomes, don't even go close to Mama Duck, ignore or tribute SummerBug and that's that (4 of my Steam friends are in this category; they play the game "for relaxation" after work - and I reckon percentage of players doing so from bulk is quite high, high enough for KLei to design a particular "Relaxed Playstyle" server preset). Needless to say there is an overlap between the 3 mentioned above, making for a consistent portion if not majority of people you encounter in pubs, the very ones that never successfully manage themselves to get Starcallers. That's why I myself find pubs so-very-interesting: you see players' typologies, their goals, thinking, planning (or lack thereof - most cases) and so much more.

 

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

7769 players survived 20 days.
419 killed ancient guardian.

5.3% of players who survived 20 days atleast once has killed ancient guardian.

Indeed. Even if your benchmark is "20 successful survived days", there's still that infinitesimal rounded 5.4% people killing AG. Then the interval between people encountering an Earthquake and prevailing over AG becomes [71;5] - yet have you constantly seen a 3/4 or a more realistic 1/2-or-less of a random dedicated Survival Server successfully raiding Ruins? I for one saw only in one case: Mighty Beard EU Endless pub - and its regular advanced experienced players; even in this particular case, is not 1/2, but more like 1/4 of people going 1st Autumn for Ruins, successfully. Sometimes even they die from various cumulative mistakes. Once more: regulars on named server have all thousands of irl play hours under their proverbial belts and still not all go for Ruins. There is a lot to write, about people's habits, play time, if is superficially casual, consistent play in small sessions, long sessions and so on. But dismissing any numerical indicator and shrugging, implying advanced gear is something any person playing this game for more than some dozens or hundreds of irl hours is capable of easily doing... that's some pretty hefty Dunning-Kruger effect on the upper margin. And it boggles my mind you of all people, that play probably only KLei official pubs, seem to not know or recognize how vast majority of pub goers' "skill levels" are - aka quite bad, basic survival included.

 

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Even in games that cost money it's not much better, 12% of Darkest Dungeon players haven't played a single level.

I admit, am in that 12% camp. Only did Tutorial (3 times, forgot why, still I believe it was to see if there are any different outcomes/dmg levels or fix tutorial parameters etc), aka got just the "Welcome home..." and "A sobering visit with the departed..." achievements. I don't care in general about achievements in any game, and I haven't progressed in DD past hiring some warriors (I think) because customizing them provided me with an issue not immediately apparent: what are the clickable colored dots on their specs cards and what does turning off/on some of their perks means for their performance. Or rather wasn't in mood to experiment in combat. Am I some "house plant" that shouldn't be counted as "playing the game"? Am sure your answer is a resounding "Yes". But consider this: not all players play games "FTW". Some are curious about aesthetics, customization, or some totally quirky peripheral motive "hardcore ez-pz gamers" will "Lul, noob!" at.

[Cheggf]

7 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

I admit, am in that 12% camp. Only did Tutorial (3 times, forgot why, still I believe it was to see if there are any different outcomes/dmg levels or fix tutorial parameters etc), aka got just the "Welcome home..." and "A sobering visit with the departed..." achievements. I don't care in general about achievements in any game, and I haven't progressed in DD past hiring some warriors (I think) because customizing them provided me with an issue not immediately apparent: what are the clickable colored dots on their specs cards and what does turning off/on some of their perks means for their performance. Or rather wasn't in mood to experiment in combat. Am I some "house plant" that shouldn't be counted as "playing the game"? Am sure your answer is a resounding "Yes". But consider this: not all players play games "FTW". Some are curious about aesthetics, customization, or some totally quirky peripheral motive "hardcore ez-pz gamers" will "Lul, noob!" at.

Your Don't Starve player counterpart opened the game, saw that Wilson "has a magnificent beard", got confused at what that means, and closed the game because he doesn't know what having a beard entails.

[Tranoze]

22 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Earthquake and prevailing over AG becomes [71;5]

The only reason i used ag compare 20 days survived because i assumed who ever can kill ag atleast once, also live in the game to days 20 atleast once because they are skillful enough. Earth quake arent the same as all you need is load to cave.
Im too lazy rightnow to recheck, but i remember i saw about 1/3 of the players who installed the game decide to join a public server, which earthquake is global and doesnt take you play long to see earthquake.

I dont know how much % of those who encounter earthquake actually played 20 days, so that data is invalid to use 71;5.
Only other valid data to use is suvive 35/55/70 days. or boss kill (DC require you to live till winter, bearger require you to live to day 70)

[MondayNight]

14 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

The only reason i used ag compare 20 days survived because i assumed who ever can kill ag atleast once, also live in the game to days 20 atleast once because they are skillful enough.

Having lived 20 days in-game has almost nothing to do with AG. As I've mentioned, there are people playing this game for thousands of irl hours and never killed any raid boss. You can sit around a camp, eating Berries and Rabbits for 20 days - and Ive seen such people, oh so many times in pubs. On opposite end: have you ever encountered a person buying the game, documenting themselves so much and practicing only for 5-10 in-game "speed-bursts" days to kill AG, then to uninstall game and call it a day because "they beat the game"? I've read over time about people "knowing a friend of an acquaintance of a pet owner known from a cantina of someone that used to know" aka hearsay regarding such God Player "mythological creatures" existing, but never backed by concrete data/factual examples. And if you think about it, makes no sense - probably only the most hardcore of "try-hard" hardcore would play games in such a manner, speed-running through life really by that point. Am sure some really do exist, but they would be the extreme outliners, not something one would or should consider when taking a look into "bulk player-base widespread styles".

39 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Your Don't Starve player counterpart opened the game, saw that Wilson "has a magnificent beard", got confused at what that means, and closed the game because he doesn't know what having a beard entails.

"House plant" it is then

[Tranoze]

47 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Having lived 20 days in-game has almost nothing to do with AG.

Yes. But you missed my point.
Killed ag = skillful enough = most likely to survive to 20 days atleast once = part of player base I defined earlier.
Survived earthquake = join cave, doesnt mean they have survived atleast 20 days , not guarantee part of player base.

A part of players who survived earthquake, some of them get too low hp, then die shortly after, then quit the game. Some, die to the next earthquake, then quit the game. So the number who survived earthquake are not reliable enough to be compare with the player base, as part of them are not even in the player base.

And survived 20 days is not even a good define of player base. I just used it because it is the most reliable data available to us.

Only other data that can reliably compare with survived 20 days (kill boss prove enough skill or other live longer than 20 days achivement)/

If i use craft science machine to compare with 20 days as player base it would be like this:
20207 players who installed the game has crafted science machine, that mean 260% players base have crafted science machine.