Should DST take the Terraria route? (aka : hard mode)

[Mr. Tour]

Was thinking about the game changing once you beat certain bosses in these games  with the enviroment changing alredy once you kill these bosses (lunar and shadow rifts), similar to the inclusion of hallowed zones (terraria)

Then, why not spicy other things after beating the final bosses? some examples

- Add new patterns to the seasonal bosses, like goosmoose having some of his babies alredy enraged during the fight, or deerclops having his iconic laser eye, bearger creating dificult to move zones after stomping, etc

- Reward the player with better or more loot from this bosses,  even adding new sketchs that would give you the bosses sculptures in a new pose, to show of that you fought a harder version.

 

any thoughts?

 

[Ryusuta]

I feel that's what they're TRYING to do. The problem is that they're blowing it in a major way.

You see, in Terraria, when you go into Hard Mode, you also get a ton of new awesome weapons, equipment, and content to reward you for doing so. The problem with DST doing this is that the rewards are mediocre at best and absolute GARBAGE at worst. You take even an early Hard Mode weapon like the Breaker Blade and use it against a normal mode boss in Terraria; you instantly feel much stronger against them. You use the Brightshade set against a normal boss in DST and the fight feels basically the exact same.

Meanwhile you have far more irritants - not challenges, irritants - to deal with by unlocking the new content. So there is virtually no incentive at all to do so. It's far preferable to just ignore it entirely. The few new monsters that appear and mostly just damage-sponge nuisances. In a word, it's disappointing.

[ADM]

It would be very unfortunate to drop the ball to just rift content to justify planar damage, I hope this goes further and wider than what we only know of so far (3rd + X updates of From Beyond but is it going to be all and as complete as we could compare to a hardmode ? Surely this will have to lives on future arcs too), how much idk but I'm looking forward how creative it gets !

[goblinball]

26 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

like the Breaker Blade

Very bad example lol

Anyways terraria’s sense of progression doesn’t really work in dst

I think that challenges and threats in dst are much more actually threatening and meaningful than ones in terraria

if you add a new strong enemy to terraria then that’s fine because they’ll still die in a couple seconds and if they kill you then it’s fine they’ll despawn and you lose next to nothing since you respawn with all your stuff back.

whereas if you add a new strong enemy to dst then you end up with brightshades 

the games are completely different and you cannot apply one design philosophy onto another and expect things to not go wrong

[_zwb]

They would need another DLC sized update to make it close to Terraria's hard mode. Currently the rifts just don't have enough content to be called as a hard mode.

[Ardyn]

If Klei wants to create a game similar to Terraria with RPG elements, then I would be happy to see and purchase it - whether it appears in the form of DS DLC, DST mode, or a standalone game. But if we want to transform the current content of DST towards Terraria, then I firmly oppose it. Even though DST requires simplification of difficulty in many areas, it should still retain a portion of the essence of DS, which is "Don't Starve is an uncomplicated wilderness survival game full of science and magic. Enter a strain and unexplored world full of strain creations, dargers, and superiors. Gather resources to craft items and structures that match your survival style. I paid for it, and I believe many people also paid for it, not for a game like Terraria.

[Cloakingsumo198]

I absolutely love the hardmode shift from terraria makes it feel like even though you were top tier big shot before the switch up you've become just another worm again as you build back up in the harsher world.

But goblinball is right DST's equipment and progression system is much different from terraria so the same approach just won't work.

[Cassielu]

I like hard mode, but it should be implemented in a way more suited to DST than TR "combat - get new gear - combat with stronger bosses again" cycle.

[Ryusuta]

3 hours ago, goblinball said:

Very bad example lol

I think that challenges and threats in dst are much more actually threatening and meaningful than ones in terraria`

I like the Breaker Blade. >=(

And no. No they really aren't. Apart from raid bosses, the challenges are trivial by that point.

[Danila6300]

I think it would be nice if the game became more difficult after killing the bosses. I think over time the developers will do everything, everything does not happen at once. 

[-Variant]

11 hours ago, Mr. Tour said:

Was thinking about the game changing once you beat certain bosses in these games  with the enviroment changing alredy once you kill these bosses (lunar and shadow rifts), similar to the inclusion of hallowed zones (terraria)

Then, why not spicy other things after beating the final bosses? some examples

- Add new patterns to the seasonal bosses, like goosmoose having some of his babies alredy enraged during the fight, or deerclops having his iconic laser eye, bearger creating dificult to move zones after stomping, etc

- Reward the player with better or more loot from this bosses,  even adding new sketchs that would give you the bosses sculptures in a new pose, to show of that you fought a harder version.

Okay, I seriously, personally, wish it would just occur in the game. After killing the major faction bosses? Fair enough. Make it natural progression! 

I think having to manually opt into threats to keep me on my toes is very scuffed.
I wish for more late game threats without needing to seek them out! That's all I really want.
Year 2 or 3, threats start coming in, you're given more than enough time to prepare. Augh!

The threats don't have to be... unfairly difficult, or tedious, or whatever, but something new to spice up the world after living it in for a long time.

(I don't really like how TR manages its difficulties.)

[RoughCactus69]

I want more Expert, Master, and FTW difficulty Don't Starve then I do hard mode.

[chirsg]

I want shipwrecked mode and hamlet mode.

 

[GodIess]

there is already. It is only necessary to improve, for example, some events, an attack of gestalts, or a meteorite threat for which there are several days to build a structure that will destroy meteorites. Bat attack. mobs have new abilities, a fire hound could throw fire and an ice hound could cool everything around. bats could restore their hp per bite, spiders would increase their health and all in this move

[landromat]

15 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

I feel that's what they're TRYING to do. The problem is that they're blowing it in a major way.

You see, in Terraria, when you go into Hard Mode, you also get a ton of new awesome weapons, equipment, and content to reward you for doing so. The problem with DST doing this is that the rewards are mediocre at best and absolute GARBAGE at worst. You take even an early Hard Mode weapon like the Breaker Blade and use it against a normal mode boss in Terraria; you instantly feel much stronger against them. You use the Brightshade set against a normal boss in DST and the fight feels basically the exact same.

Meanwhile you have far more irritants - not challenges, irritants - to deal with by unlocking the new content. So there is virtually no incentive at all to do so. It's far preferable to just ignore it entirely. The few new monsters that appear and mostly just damage-sponge nuisances. In a word, it's disappointing.

in terraria old gear becomes obsolete the second you get better gear, DST is going another route, trying to make everything viable one way or another and i think that's the better way

[abrocator]

17 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

You see, in Terraria, when you go into Hard Mode, you also get a ton of new awesome weapons, equipment, and content to reward you for doing so. The problem with DST doing this is that the rewards are mediocre at best and absolute GARBAGE at worst. You take even an early Hard Mode weapon like the Breaker Blade and use it against a normal mode boss in Terraria; you instantly feel much stronger against them. You use the Brightshade set against a normal boss in DST and the fight feels basically the exact same.

But many people argue for that on this forum. “Shouldn’t trivialize old equipment.” Which makes zero sense.

Side-grades (situational gear) like bone armor makes sense. But planar damage Makes Zero. Sense.

[Ryusuta]

2 hours ago, landromat said:

in terraria old gear becomes obsolete the second you get better gear, DST is going another route, trying to make everything viable one way or another and i think that's the better way

I agree, this is definitely different. They're trying the new, innovative approach of making the NEW gear obsolete.

[Capybara007]

a hardmode would take a lot of time to develop aswell as a lot of balancing with rewards and such which klei isnt good at

3 hours ago, landromat said:

in terraria old gear becomes obsolete the second you get better gear, DST is going another route, trying to make everything viable one way or another and i think that's the better way

This is not the route they are doing right now? they definitely dont expect you to fight blights with ham bats and football helmets, this is literally the reason planar dmg was added

dont see how it is hard to understand: more effort, more reward

this is why people hate misery tosdstool with passion, gives you a drop that is worse or has very few niches compares to a panflute (if shroomskin dupe was intended they shouldve given us a better solution)

[Mike23Ua]

The game doesn’t need a “Hard Mode” the game is dare I say this… Hard enough already. As in: Things can and will still kill you unless your just some Uber elite god who can beat everything the game currently throws at you every single time flawlessly.

And if you CAN do that.. maybe you should be playing a different game? You’ve mastered DST.

So I’ll repeat the above: It doesn’t need a hard mode, and creating one would be a waste of development time and resources that could’ve been better spent on updates everyone can (mostly..) enjoy.

What DST desperately NEEDS more then it needs a hard mode is to at the very minimal: Offer up some of the same challenges single player don’t starve provided-

Things like- Having the way the Map is Generated challenge you like it will throughout solo adventures mode with enemy infested choke off points, or having areas of land that can only be accessed by first creating a structure intended to get across it (for hamlet we had large ponds for this) adding new enemy mobs with new attack patterns and abilities such as Hippopatomouse leaping “splash” attack, or snakes & scorpions that if they hit you can inflict poison damage requiring antidotes.

DST doesn’t need some Uber hardcore terraria Mode, it just needs to be half as challenging as the single player game it spawned from.

[W0l0l0]

I don't think Don't Starve Together needs a hard mode. Items aren't designed to have real progression, dark sword has been the best all character weapon since it was created, it's nice to not have items become redundant. Klei clearly tries to make items fill different niches instead of simple upgrades which I love because almost all have uses throughout the game.

On a personal note, I also like the idea that the constant is completely oblivious to the survivors, that they're insignificant and the great dangers have always existed, they just haven't been discovered yet. Sure, I like animals evolving and mutating in the constant over time but not due to player action. I think thats something that Don't Starve can do well, with hound waves and seasons, it feels like the world is changing naturally by itself, not intentionally setting a challenge for the survivors, should they accept it.