An insult to Don't Starve

[chirsg]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

what does this even mean

A lot of work went into the UI of Wilson's skill tree, and apparently, there was a lot going on deep in the code with wilson's update for it to be just for him.

And it has been brought up that every character will choose a side between moon and shadow.

It wasn't so outrageous to guess that a skilltree wouldn't come for every other character. Especially those with a lacking niches compared to other characters. Namely Woodie, who I was a believer that there was a conspiracy again.

[Cheggf]

1 minute ago, chirsg said:

A lot of work went into the UI of Wilson's skill tree, and apparently, there was a lot going on deep in the code with wilson's update for it to be just for him.

And it has been brought up that every character will choose a side between moon and shadow.

It wasn't so outrageous to guess that a skilltree wouldn't come for every other character. Especially those with a lacking niches compared to other characters. Namely Woodie, who I was a believer that there was a conspiracy again.

Yeah it wasn't outrageous to guess it would happen, people were saying it shouldn't happen back when Wilson got his rework. How is that relevant?

[viberr]

umm... I like the idea of skill trees... I think they're pretty cool, y'know, some characters are gonna go back into the spotlight and that's nice

i'm...just gonna go back to my corner since my opinion isn't very popular

[Duck986]

4 minutes ago, viberr said:

i'm...just gonna go back to my corner since my opinion isn't very popular

meanwhile disappointment posts get ratio'd by appreciation posts.

[Sacco]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

See, I could and yes, I will myself ignore these content althought I quote @-Variant 

The problem stands out for, quote;

"I have now 55 dst players or "scholars" who I have introduced and teached to the game since 2017 and it has always been my best years of life, never regret it.
Following the old Klei principles, I played with every single on them, ranging from 2 people runs to full 6 lobby run, with zero backseating and playing as a dumb dumb (example if they don't know and discovered torches or campfires, I will not build them nor I will try to evade darkness if they don't know how to fight it either) as Klei intended.
The true magic of don't starve.
It's even challengin for me that I know already the game because I need to be creative without "cheating" and I always discover something absurd (did you know it that dragonfruites can't burn? Lol) and seeing new people create weird and never heard strategies with always fill my heart.

One of the 55 players had a strategy against Toadstool with normal tools and weapons but gunpowder with torches and fire staff to destroy the mushrooms. Funniest **** I ever did on Dst."

 

That's why. I don't want the first experience of newcomers to be ruined by a boring skill tree. After they will complete the game, on a second run they're free to "play" with them. Until then, if Klei doesn't change them or atleast try to fix them, I will search for a mod to disable them

I'll give you this.... yes. On let's say, 70% because then there is the 30% of unbalance mess but I literally grown old of that since 2013 with the poor old Krampus. 2019-2022 was just a fever dream. If it was just a normal update giving these new things straight to the characters, I would have been more calm.

Like more gembells based on their gems? More buff needed for Woodie? A crafting recipe to literally make animals shart on themselves? Sign me up! 

I like the concept of skill trees, they just have to rework them a little bit, you know, remove all the skills that just eliminate all disadvantages of a character, make the skill tree reset in every single world and oput more skills related to Lunar/Shadow things.

[Milordo]

6 minutes ago, viberr said:

umm... I like the idea of skill trees... I think they're pretty cool, y'know, some characters are gonna go back into the spotlight and that's nice

i'm...just gonna go back to my corner since my opinion isn't very popular

*pat pat

[chirsg]

30 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Yeah it wasn't outrageous to guess it would happen, people were saying it shouldn't happen back when Wilson got his rework. How is that relevant?

Because of the lackluster strengths of some of the characters compared to others.
That and a lack of expression in strength of characters when their niches typically cater to that strength.

for example: Woodie being a lumberjack and wolfgang being the strongman

Wolfgang was slowly becoming less special due to the planar mechanics and with his overall speciality being usurped by other characters in small niches, his endgame to some felt weaker.

And woodie, whose profession is to chop wood got upstaged by maxwell. Even his combat niche in weremoose also got that treatment when maxwell's duelists got roided up.

Saying "It shouldn't happen" suggests that the weaker characters should have stayed underwhelming and should have been counted lucky to even be in the game in the first place.

 

Skill trees are a good way to have characters get supplementary treatment without a a rework sequel.

 

Looking forward to Willow's. 

[Milordo]

Just now, Sacco said:

I like the concept of skill trees they just have to rework them a little bit, you know, remove all the skills that just eliminate all disadvantages of a character, make the skill tree reset in every single world and oput more skills related to Lunar/Shadow things.

See now we're talking. If you didn't saw, @lakhnish proposed a great solution that I would be down to be in the game.

[viberr]

Just now, Duck986 said:

meanwhile disappointment posts get ratio'd by appreciation posts.

I mean, I only saw two of them so I was under the impression my opinion wasn't very popular

Just now, Milordo said:

*pat pat

anyways, so I don't really like to be an opinion giver because mine are usually really bad

but I don't really mind the new direction Klei is taking. what matters to me is that the game is still fun and it is without a doubt still fun 

but I can understand 100% why some people dislike this a lot, I'm just not of that notion personally

[Milordo]

7 minutes ago, chirsg said:

snip

All of your topic doesn't make sense. 

"We all agree that the building is crumbling and needs repair, therefore we need some dynamite to remove those weak parts"

[chirsg]

1 minute ago, Milordo said:

All of your topic doesn't make sense. 

"We all agree that the building is crumbling and needs repair, therefore we need some dynamite to remove those weak parts"

Pardon?

[Milordo]

1 minute ago, chirsg said:

Pardon?

"We all agree that the building is crumbling and needs repair, therefore we need some dynamite to remove those weak parts"

Instead of carefully fix those crumbling and weaks parts, you're saying we should go with dynamite. It's what you said.

[HowlVoid]

I'm glad Klei can tell the difference between subjective truths and objective ones.

Just because you scream "Booooooring!" At the top of your lungs doesn't mean you've provided any meaningful insight into the state of the game. I am confident this at least, is an objective truth.

So far every opposition to the skill tree has been "In my experience the game was better when it was x" which is a form of gatekeeping.

Here's a quote:

"History can only be learned of, not lived through."

That is to say your experience throughout the game your first time will differ greatly from a new players perspective, wether that experience is negative or positive is ENTIRELY going to depend on their point of view. 

Let put this into perspective:

You may think new players will be this or that, confused, dismayed and what have you, however this already occurs. People drop the game because nothing is explained at first, because darkness is unforgiving, because death is unforgiving, etc aka they have a personal taste. Skills having descriptions is one of many new ideas catering to new players and even hinting at existing features. So pretending we know how this addition will affect new players is literally impossible due to the sheer amount of varying perspectives. Hell, there may be players attracted to the game DUE to the addition of skill trees. 

Your problem is your perception of skill trees and thinking it goes contrary to the DST formula but I beg to differ. DST has always been a game about progression, progressing in player skill exists, but also in items, and seasonally available mobs/structures/items. We even have a in-game quest line that when progressed leads to powerful items and world changes that can be taken advantaged of to benefit the player. This is more of the same but presented in a new layer, a new form, a new concept (for DST). 

I fail to see how a game about sandboxing can't make room for customization, a game about progression doesn't have room for progression based perks, a game about player choice can't make room for character focus. In my opinion, skill trees fit right at home. And any new players who experience this for the first time and know not of past versions, where this will become the norm, will have no problems adapting as we did. 

This is a game about adaptation, so why can't you?

[chirsg]

53 minutes ago, Milordo said:

you're saying we should go with dynamite.

I never once mentioned the D word. I don't think you should be saying anything like that without adding "In minecraft" at the end.
I will not be implicated in this anti american language. 

[Sacco]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

See now we're talking. If you didn't saw, @lakhnish proposed a great solution that I would be down to be in the game.

Yea yea i saw, it's a great change, but i'd like to keep some basic skills too.

[Milordo]

11 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I never once mentioned the D word. I don't think you should be saying anything like that without adding "In minecraft" at the end.
I will not be implicated in this anti american language. 

1) You didn't understand at all the analogy I was saying

2) Uhhhhh??????? When a simple word like dynamite is a curse word????????? what??? Anti-american language???

[viberr]

7 minutes ago, Milordo said:

1) You didn't understand at all the analogy I was saying

 

I mean, some people aren't very smart(like myself) so it's understandable that some (including me) wouldn't pick up on your analogy

8 minutes ago, Milordo said:

2) Uhhhhh??????? When a simple word like dynamite is a curse word????????? what??? Anti-american language???

Arabic people maybe? but still, if he considers it a word that he doesn't like to say, then he doesn't have to say it( it also might be because the bot might pick it up as a bad word for some reason)

[SadeceAtakan]

6 hours ago, Nimbus3 said:

I prefer benefits that you actively have to work for in game, by gathering ressources, discovering new biomes, fighting mobs, hunting stuff, surviving seasons and not that you obtain because you played X hours or cheated to get lame insight points.

I agree with you on this one. They should get rid off the insight points and make it so we unlock the skills with interactive stuff.

[SirToastyToes]

"This set doesn't feel like Magic the Gathering"

"This title doesn't feel like Pokemon"

"This update doesn't feel like Don't Starve"

 

Fandoms all have one song it's just in different keys

[Wittlson]

12 hours ago, Milordo said:

Farming points by standing still, or cheating via console or mods, does NOT reward you for survive longer when you can LITERALLY starts a run with all the skill tree points avaiable. It rewards FARMING HOURS in the game. This is NOT Don't Starve. This is Don't Starve MMORPG Warcraft: The last Battle for Constant

I think skills should just be tied to the *world* you're playing in, like surviving a season would get you like 5 insight points and changing the character would not effect your points so you could reset your skill and use them somewhere else, even if they don't change it, I think this update is GREAT

[Milordo]

33 minutes ago, SirToastyToes said:

"This set doesn't feel like Magic the Gathering"

"This title doesn't feel like Pokemon"

"This update doesn't feel like Don't Starve"

 

Fandoms all have one song it's just in different keys

Do you ever stop for one second and listen to all these different people instead of making a generalization? Maybe even consider different situations? 

Look I can do it too. From the sounds, you seem "I eat up everything, I don't care how it is, it's fine by me. I consume everything" type of guy. 

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm glad Klei can tell the difference between subjective truths and objective ones.

Just because you scream "Booooooring!" At the top of your lungs doesn't mean you've provided any meaningful insight into the state of the game. I am confident this at least, is an objective truth.

So far every opposition to the skill tree has been "In my experience the game was better when it was x" which is a form of gatekeeping.

Here's a quote:

"History can only be learned of, not lived through."

That is to say your experience throughout the game your first time will differ greatly from a new players perspective, wether that experience is negative or positive is ENTIRELY going to depend on their point of view. 

Let put this into perspective:

You may think new players will be this or that, confused, dismayed and what have you, however this already occurs. People drop the game because nothing is explained at first, because darkness is unforgiving, because death is unforgiving, etc aka they have a personal taste. Skills having descriptions is one of many new ideas catering to new players and even hinting at existing features. So pretending we know how this addition will affect new players is literally impossible due to the sheer amount of varying perspectives. Hell, there may be players attracted to the game DUE to the addition of skill trees. 

Your problem is your perception of skill trees and thinking it goes contrary to the DST formula but I beg to differ. DST has always been a game about progression, progressing in player skill exists, but also in items, and seasonally available mobs/structures/items. We even have a in-game quest line that when progressed leads to powerful items and world changes that can be taken advantaged of to benefit the player. This is more of the same but presented in a new layer, a new form, a new concept (for DST). 

I fail to see how a game about sandboxing can't make room for customization, a game about progression doesn't have room for progression based perks, a game about player choice can't make room for character focus. In my opinion, skill trees fit right at home. And any new players who experience this for the first time and know not of past versions, where this will become the norm, will have no problems adapting as we did. 

This is a game about adaptation, so why can't you?

1) You payed attention to only one word and didn't cater to all the rest of the paragraph. Only quoted the "boooring" because it's what payed your attention and it seems it worked.

2) You nullify all of my giga enormous list with "In my experience the game was better when it was x". Not only not understanding anything what I wrote but even proving more that who likes the skill tree doesn't have nearly any point in favour, is liking it for the sake of doing and close his eyes by banishing anything that is opposite. Because it's new content! It's the new thing! I like new things! Why you hate new things? 

You even brought up in the table objective and subjective means while your post is so entirely subjective and messed up that I don't know where to start and I'll gladly leave it there.

3) The perspective thing is correct and I was following you until you went later all up in the water. You still didn't describe anything about the problems, nor discussing it. No criticism. You still say "Why can't we have room for customization? You're such a hater for new things aren't you?" while again avoiding everything I said and even had the audacity to say to me to adapt! That's really funny, how mature  while you said "we're glad Klei people don't listen to people like you" because I wrote "boooring" to a factual boring aspect for waiting tot days and nothing else. What now? Now you will tell me how much perspective can change and say that waiting tot days is the most wonderful thing in the world? 

Maybe you didn't saw, but look here

You see there? That's a long long post, that starts there, with 10 hard points, almost factual points whenever you like them or not, about how much problematic this skill thing is. If you want to discuss it as a civil person and contribute to the argument, I'll gladly wait you. 

 

 

[HowlVoid]

4 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Do you ever stop for one second and listen to all these different people instead of making a generalization? Maybe even consider different situations? 

Look I can do it too. From the sounds, you seem "I eat up everything, I don't care how it is, it's fine by me. I consume everything" type of guy. 

1) You payed attention to only one word and didn't cater to all the rest of the paragraph. Only quoted the "boooring" because it's what payed your attention and it seems it worked.

2) You nullify all of my giga enormous list with "In my experience the game was better when it was x". Not only not understanding anything what I wrote but even proving more that who likes the skill tree doesn't have nearly any point in favour, is liking it for the sake of doing and close his eyes by banishing anything that is opposite. Because it's new content! It's the new thing! I like new things! Why you hate new things? 

You even brought up in the table objective and subjective means while your post is so entirely subjective and messed up that I don't know where to start and I'll gladly leave it there.

3) The perspective thing is correct and I was following you until you went later all up in the water. You still didn't describe anything about the problems, nor discussing it. No criticism. You still say "Why can't we have room for customization? You're such a hater for new things aren't you?" while again avoiding everything I said and even had the audacity to say to me to adapt! That's really funny, how mature  while you said "we're glad Klei people don't listen to people like you" because I wrote "boooring" to a factual boring aspect for waiting tot days and nothing else. What now? Now you will tell me how much perspective can change and say that waiting tot days is the most wonderful thing in the world? 

Maybe you didn't saw, but look here

You see there? That's a long long post, that starts there, with 10 hard points, almost factual points whenever you like them or not, about how much problematic this skill thing is. If you want to discuss it as a civil person and contribute to the argument, I'll gladly wait you. 

 

 

Holy cow

[SirToastyToes]

4 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Look I can do it too. From the sounds, you seem "I eat up everything, I don't care how it is, it's fine by me. I consume everything" type of guy. 

I mean yeah, I love Don't Starve. Why would I get more Don't Starve and be mad about it? When something actually detrimental to the game comes along maybe I'll worry then.

[Milordo]

38 minutes ago, Wittlson said:

I think skills should just be tied to the *world* you're playing in, like surviving a season would get you like 5 insight points and changing the character would not effect your points so you could reset your skill and use them somewhere else

Yup and also lakhnish's idea could perfect.

9 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Holy cow

Yup, exact sentiment when I read your post

9 minutes ago, SirToastyToes said:

I mean yeah, I love Don't Starve. Why would I get more Don't Starve and be mad about it? When something actually detrimental to the game comes along maybe I'll worry then.

Annd no, that's not how it works. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you adapt it or leave the game. That's the spirit isn't it? How great would be when """""something actually detrimental"""" come to the game, you get worried and try to suggest to fix things and a lot of people responded to you "you're a nancy" "you hate new things" "you should stop playing if you don't like it" "you all fandoms are alike".

Fandoms all have one song it's just in different keys

 

[SirToastyToes]

16 minutes ago, Milordo said:

How great would be when """""something actually detrimental"""" come to the game, you get worried and try to suggest to fix things and a lot of people responded to you "you're a nancy" "you hate new things" "you should stop playing if you don't like it" "you all fandoms are alike".

Luckily for both of us this is not it. This is not "destroying the foundations of the game" this is not the moment we'll all point to in ten years where we didn't know how good we had it, it's new abilities for characters and maybe you'll use them maybe you won't. You're not the first to decry something as the worst thing they've ever done to Don't Starve and you won't be the last.